apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p327: http://ruby-lang.org (ruby-2.0.0-preview2) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
<zenspider> drbrain: that should probably be added to the verifier. :/
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<methods> banisterfiend: hm Object.constants.select { |v| v.is_a?(Class) } doesn't seem to see class A; end which i defined
<banisterfiend> ah
<banisterfiend> maybe it returns symbols
<zenspider> k = []; ObjectSpace.each_object(Class) { |o| k << o }
<methods> nice
<zenspider> Not every class is a constant on Object. just top level ones. ObjectSpace will gather all of them
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<zenspider> and yeah. those are the constant names
<banisterfiend> yeah i typically dont use ObjectSpace if i can avoid it due to it not working on jruby
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<zenspider> I typically don't use jruby if I can avoid it due to it not working with ObjectSpace
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<zenspider> I understand why they don't implement it... but it is damn useful
<headius> OS works for classes and modules…what do you want to use it for?
<headius> I've been thinking about rewiring OS to use JVM debug features…would still slow down, but could be enabled at runtime I think
<banisterfiend> at least i dont think it worked last time i checked, i could be wrong about that
<zenspider> that would prolly strike a nice balance
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<zenspider> zzak: quickref went live. thanks again
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<zzak> zenspider: np, nice published time
<methods> modules can define instance methods on the class that they are included into can't they
<methods> ?
<methods> i mean class methods..
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<banisterfiend> methods: use extend instead of include
<methods> oops
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<zenspider> anyone know of a good & fast fixed-width bitfield for ruby?
<zenspider> I want to do a bunch of bit manipulations and don't want to keep autoconverting into bignums
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<zenspider> wow... I really can't find anything appropriate. this is sad.
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<yfeldblum> using nokogiri xml builder, is there a way to have the root node be explicitly namespaced?
<yfeldblum> zenspider, indeed, but none of those examples shows the root node being namespaced explicitly, and i'm getting exceptions trying it
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<zenspider> yfeldblum: yes, it does. look at "Namespaces" section
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<drbrain> zenspider: I think yfeldblum means <namespace:root>
<zenspider> and the next section as well
<yfeldblum> drbrain, that's right
<yfeldblum> zenspider, i want to generate: <?xml?><ns:root xmlns:ns="uri:ns">...</ns:root>
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<yfeldblum> zenspider, there are some examples of explicitly namespaced child elements (when the parent has declared the namespace already) and implicitly namespaced root elements, but no explicitly namespaced root elements
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<zenspider> I'm trying to manually register a namespace before creating the root node. I'm not sure it even makes sense since it is the root node that declares the namespaces it uses...
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<yfeldblum> zenspider, the document <ns:root xmlns:ns="uri:ns"/> is a valid document ... but it doesn't look like nokogiri xml builder wants to generate it
<zenspider> HAH!
<zenspider> xml.send("ns:root", 'xmlns:foo' => 'bar') { ... }
<zenspider> do send
<zenspider> I think the bug is that you can't predeclare namespaces... you should file that
<zenspider> but you can get what you want via send
<zenspider> damnit.. I totally typed my answer before yours.... my client was just resyncing. I still win
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<zzak> i like a good hearty beer
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<charliesome> zzak: hear hear
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<zzak> IRB.CurrentContext.name = "pry"
<zzak> should i make a psuedo gem?
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<charliesome> zzak: how goes figuring out rib's internals?
<charliesome> irb*
<zzak> s/name/irb_name
<zzak> charliesome: it is fun, there's a lot of interesting quirks
<zzak> i am almost done merging the irb.rd docs, then i will probably commit and start working on more improvements
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<zzak> charliesome: you get your commit bit sorted out?
<charliesome> zzak: yep
<charliesome> going to look at this tonight: http://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/7536
<charliesome> spent some time last night setting up vim properly for mri
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<zzak> that is all i really use
<zzak> my vim is basic tho
<charliesome> zzak: "au FileType c setl ts=8 sw=4 softtabstop=4 noexpandtab" :( you have that as global config?
<charliesome> i have that only for files under ~/code/ruby
<charliesome> because seriously fuck formatting my code like that
<zzak> yeah
<zzak> you mean C code
<charliesome> yeah
<zzak> i only have written C for MRI, and very little
<charliesome> ah
<charliesome> this is what i'm using at the moment, it's el spartan: https://github.com/charliesome/conf/blob/master/config/vimrc
<charliesome> i might take some ideas from yours
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<drbrain> I have: set spell spelllang=en_us
<drbrain> highlight WhitespaceEOL ctermbg=LightMagenta guibg=LightMagenta; match WhitespaceEOL /\s\+$/
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<drbrain> and ^^
<drbrain> and I hate smart indent for ruby files
<charliesome> that's probably a good idea
<charliesome> drbrain: smart indent doesn't even work in ruby for me
<charliesome> i use textmate for ruby code though
<tpope> smartindent is the worst vim option ever
<charliesome> so it doesn't bother me
<charliesome> tpope: why?
<zzak> feel free, i need a good light/dark scheme i stopped using solarized because i hate the light version
<tpope> charliesome: it's c indenting that doesn't care about semicolons. why would you even think of using that for ruby?
<tpope> it's a holdover from the days before vim had support for custom indenting algorithms
<charliesome> tpope: oh i thought you mean it's just bad in general
<zzak> oh lawd, tpope saw my vim config
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<drbrain> also, "When typing '#' as the first character in a new line, the indent for that line is removed, the '#' is put in the first column."
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<charliesome> ew
<tpope> yeah, because it thinks its the c pre processor
<zzak> drbrain: i think im using vim-trailing-whitespace plugin for that
<tpope> the sane thing to do is not to set smartindent
<tpope> lord knows how many thousands of people remapped # instead
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<drbrain> tpope: LOL
<zzak> tpope: btw, pathogen is amazing, thank you
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<tpope> cheers
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<drbrain> I hope I can get at least 33 more tests into RDoc
<drbrain> then I'll have 2000!
<zzak> https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/doc/irb/irb.rd everything merged but Restrictions section
<zzak> which seems like it doesnt apply anymore
<zzak> like the bit about local variables and here document not being implemented
<charliesome> zzak: nice work
<drbrain> declaration of local variables shuold always be true in irb
<drbrain> eval "a = 1"; p a # => NameError
<zzak> right, but that doc says it will work
<zzak> Though, the above will successfully done by irb. `eval "foo = 0"; #=> 0; foo #=> 0;
<zzak> i think its wrong
<drbrain> eval "eval %{a = 1}; p a"
<drbrain> also gets NameError
<zzak> which seems to match non-irb
<drbrain> huh
<zzak> they both return NameError
<zzak> ruby and irb
<drbrain> that's nice
<zzak> so doc is saying, that irb wont NameError, which is wrong
<drbrain> yeah
<zzak> that whole chapter should just be removed
<zzak> i couldnt figure out the Symbol bit tho
<zzak> "Irb can not always recognize a symbol as to be Symbol. Concretely, an expression have completed, however Irb regard it as continuation line."
<zzak> any idea how to reproduce that?
<drbrain> that may still be true
<charliesome> yep
<charliesome> [1,2,3].reduce :*
<charliesome> continues in irb
<charliesome> wait
<charliesome> no it doesn't
<charliesome> i swear it used to
<charliesome> ah
<charliesome> :+ continues
<drbrain> I wonder if I worked around that in rdoc
<drbrain> I have fixes irb doesn't and should merge
<drbrain> … but irb doesn't care about most of my changes :/
<zzak> i dont get it, both those do the same thing in `ruby` and irb
<ryanf> zzak: "[1,2,3].reduce :+" is a complete statement, but irb thinks it isn't
<ryanf> pry, on the other hand...
<zzak> : returns unexpected ':', and :+ returns undefined local variable
<drbrain> "p :+" is a simpler reproduction
<zzak> oh, i see now
<zzak> ruby -e '[1,2,3].reduce :+\n'
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<zzak> is syntactically complete
<ryanf> yes
<zzak> thank you
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<zzak> you guys rock
<zzak> i was literally reading Symbol docs before trying to surmise a plot to break irb
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<drbrain> zzak: you'd need to compare the parse.y to the irb parser
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<drbrain> (moreso the lexer)
<zzak> i have nightmares about parse.y
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<drbrain> all grammars are scary at first
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<drbrain> OMG FINALLY
<zzak> !
<drbrain> now single files can be properly re-parsed!
<drbrain> rather single C files
<drbrain> previously they didn't know the proper C variable names to hook themselves up
<zzak> oh, you mean the rdoc update bug
<drbrain> yeah
<banisterfiend> drbrain: how does the rdoc C parser compare to the yard one?
<zzak> i always nuke my ./html folder when generating doco
<drbrain> so touch ext/openssl/ossl_x509name.c; make will have all zeros
<drbrain> HTML generation always re-parses everything
<drbrain> banisterfiend: I have no idea, I've never looked at it
<zzak> that is new tho
<zzak> old habits die hard
<drbrain> zzak: I usually make; rdoc --no-standard -d .ext/rdoc Whatever
<drbrain> since the incremental ri build is so much faster
<zzak> i actually dont check the ri
<zzak> am i fired?
<drbrain> no
<drbrain> making sure they're the same is my job :D
<charliesome> parse.y is particularly scary
<charliesome> because it does way more than just parse
<zzak> hurray!
<zzak> ive been meaning to ask you about that
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<pototo> Is there a way I can interact with the Wordpress user database via a Ruby webapp? I want a user to log in with the same credentials they use on Wordpress.
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<sent-hil> pototo: it'll be very complicated
<sent-hil> you're better off building your own blog
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<pototo> I really just want to verify a user exists and not make them create 2 different accounts.
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<pototo> And I have access to the WP database, so it possible for me to log them in the Ruby web app and do the normal password unhashing that wordpress does when it logs someone in?
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<sent-hil> pototo: i've no idea how wordpress stores the password, prob. diff from the way rails stores pass., so you'll need to modify one of them to use the same method as the other
<pototo> I'm not using rails, but I figured that maybe someone's implemented Wordpress' hashing algo in Ruby and I could use that.
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<sent-hil> i highly doubt it, but you can easily look for it
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<shachaf> Looking at the WordPress code is probably the simplest way to figure out the format.
<sent-hil> isn't it a whole lot easier to just build a blog?
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<pototo> I already have a large website based on Wordpress with a blog, and I want to create a Sinatra app that has the same user database.
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<shachaf> Looks like they use phpass
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<pototo> Basically, I want to stay away from writing this new thing in PHP.
<shachaf> Well, being able to figure out how the WP database works on your own is a test you have to be pass for people to let you do something like that. :-)
<shachaf> Fortunately it's not very hard, and I already gave it away, really.
<sent-hil> pototo: i guess there's more of you going around :)
<pototo> I know enough about how Wordpress does DBs that I can get to the user, email, and hash
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<yorickpeterse> Morning
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<crazyhorse> hey what's an easy way of forwarding a method .. i.e. from within my class i have lots of calls to bla .. but i want those to execute all of those on @hello.bla instead
<crazyhorse> would it just be something like on the class def bla(*args); @hello.bla(args); end
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<injekt> crazyhorse: yes
<crazyhorse> yay
<injekt> crazyhorse: if you have a lot of methods like that, some would probably use the delegate class
<crazyhorse> what's happening is i'm using capistrano
<crazyhorse> and i can't work out how to get access to it's run / sudo and capture methods inside my classes
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<crazyhorse> so i'm just doing ServerSetup.new(self)
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<injekt> include Capistrano::Configuration::Actions::Invocation
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<Paradox> im in le bath tub
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<yorickpeterse> on a boat?
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<crazyhorse> injekt: :)
<crazyhorse> ok
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<crazyhorse> is there anyway to include every class in the module
<crazyhorse> include Capistrano::Configuration::Actions::*
<crazyhorse> hehe
<apeiros_> .constants + .const_get + .instance_of?(Module)
<andrewvos> crazyhorse: That's not exactly nice
<crazyhorse> haha yeah
<crazyhorse> ok :)
<crazyhorse> i'll just do the 3 includes
<crazyhorse> apeiros: clever thous
<crazyhorse> though*
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<judofyr> RUBY RUBY RUBY
<Technodrome> good day judofyr
<judofyr> hey Technodrome
<judofyr> what's up?
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<Technodrome> seems like you've been a ruby enthusiast for a while
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<yorickpeterse> Nah, he writes Perl for a living
<yorickpeterse> he quite dislikes Ruby
<Technodrome> oh?
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<judofyr> Technodrome: don't listen to yorickpeterse. but yes, I have written a lot of Perl for a living in the last year
<judofyr> Technodrome: but my brain still thinks in Ruby
<yorickpeterse> ha
<yorickpeterse> That was just a random guess
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<crazyhorse> hey i need to stick this string in yaml "ssh://#{git_user}@#{git_server}:#{git_port}/projects/#{app_name}" and later i'm going to want to do string replacement on it with variable names
<crazyhorse> can anyone recommend a good way of doing this
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: not bad
<crazyhorse> i know there is "ssh://%s@#%s:#%s/projects/%s" but i'd prefer if the string in yaml was readable
<yorickpeterse> crazyhorse: %user, %server, etc
<yorickpeterse> then just gsub it
<crazyhorse> oh yeah.. iterate through multiple times?
<yorickpeterse> You can also use #{} though
<yorickpeterse> neg
<crazyhorse> oh and gsub the #{}
<crazyhorse> yeah
<yorickpeterse> my_input.gsub('%user', user.name).gsub('%server', server.name) # etc
<crazyhorse> might just do that
<crazyhorse> ah yeah neat enough :)
<yorickpeterse> Not sure if gsub takes multiple find/replaces
<crazyhorse> thanks
<judofyr> my_input.gsub("%(\w+)") { settings[$1] }
<yorickpeterse> noice
<judofyr> crazyhorse: in 1.9 you can also use String#%: "%{user}@%{host}" % { :user => "judofyr", :host => "ruby" }
<crazyhorse> haha
<crazyhorse> if only i was on 1.9
<judofyr> crazyhorse: :(
<crazyhorse> it would save me lots of headaches
<crazyhorse> it made a job we were doing last week so bloody difficult
<yorickpeterse> Ruby 1.8: dat loading issues
<crazyhorse> 3 lines in 1.9
<crazyhorse> 20 lines in 1.8
<crazyhorse> that was until manveru wrote me the 1.9 method in ruby for 1.8 :)
<crazyhorse> haha
<yorickpeterse> good guy manveru
<Technodrome> judofyr: for the past 3 years I've done a ton of Drupal code for contracts as well
<Technodrome> sadly enough
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<Technodrome> but government contracts are addicting
<crazyhorse> ohh
<crazyhorse> government contracts
<Technodrome> government loves Drupal
<Technodrome> + the government actually pays on time
<crazyhorse> 1. you must write your code so it must run on windows AND it uses micrsoft sequal server AND the database has to match this format
<crazyhorse> that was were my last government contract ended :(
<crazyhorse> after 4 months of trying to get it
<crazyhorse> or was it 6
<Technodrome> it don't take that long
<Technodrome> i mean its worth it
<Technodrome> you can close 2-5 contracts a year , each one over 100k, it's not bad money these days noticing how much competition there is
<manveru> the % with gsub isn't that hard actually
<manveru> >> subs = {:foo => "manveru", :bar => "stuff.com"}; "%{foo}@%{bar}".gsub(/%\{([^}]+)\}/){ subs[$1.to_sym] }
<manveru> => "manveru@stuff.com"
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<manveru> i think the original is stricter
<manveru> >> subs = {:foo => "manveru", :bar => "stuff.com"}; "%{foo}@%{bar}".gsub(/%\{([^}]+)\}/){ subs.fetch($1.to_sym) }
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<Technodrome> so a guy i know who started a company a few years ago, just sold it for 90 million dollars
<Technodrome> talk about a success story
<yorickpeterse> I reckon the national tax agency is happy too
<Technodrome> I'm sure
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<Technodrome> yorickpeterse: you do anything cool these days?
<yorickpeterse> I'm currently fighting with Rails and Angular JS
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: what do you think about Angular JS?
<yorickpeterse> meh
<yorickpeterse> I don't like the idea of moving everything to the browser
<yorickpeterse> With backends you can more easily scale and benchmark things
<yorickpeterse> With JS you're much more left at the mercy of browsers
<yorickpeterse> it's also slow as shit
<yorickpeterse> Backbone might be nice, haven't tried it yet, but it seems fairly lightweight
<yorickpeterse> What I dislike of Angular so far is that it mixes logic and presentation up to an insane level
<yorickpeterse> In a way it's nice that you can do stuff like `ng-show="foo == true"` but it mixes things up to a point where it becomes a giant clusterfuck
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<Technodrome> the whole, browser for everything is the wrong solution as well
<Technodrome> i like rails because it solves problems
<yorickpeterse> meh, not a fan of Rails
<Technodrome> and at the end thats the desired result
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<yorickpeterse> I don't like the "Do it our way or gtfo" mentality of it
<Technodrome> some ramaze or that other one?
<Technodrome> rails is flexible enough i think
<yorickpeterse> I'm a Ramaze person
<yorickpeterse> Having said that, there are interesting parts in Rails and I can see why people like it
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: "do it our way or gtfo" on the other end of the spectrum you have EJB
<whitequark> thousands of factory factories definitely allow for quite some flexibility.
<yorickpeterse> EJB?
<Technodrome> I don't get to religious or biased when it comes to frameworks or languages, it's all about that end result, solving a problem, not writing my controllers in the most perfect way, which might mean super minimalism
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: enterprise java beans
<yorickpeterse> heh
<Technodrome> good old ejb's
<yorickpeterse> So here's a current issue I have with Angular: I'm outputting a Liquid template but dumb-ass Angular thinks it needs to process the {{template}} tags
<yorickpeterse> Apparently there's this module that you can use to "sanitize" it but it seems there's no "one tag" way of doing it
<yorickpeterse> Instead it seems I have to create a damn controller, model and perform some Ajax call to actually get the data
<yorickpeterse> ffs I just want `ng-gtfo-tags="true"` or whatever
<yorickpeterse> Also their website randomly breaking is another fine example of why "Everything in the browser" is a stupid idea
<Technodrome> yeah I wouldn't mess with it, nothing wrong with server side logic
<yorickpeterse> At least we're moving away from it as much as possible with this app
<pangel> I have a question about blocking and non-blocking I/O. If I use blocking I/O, I must use threads to keep part of my application running. If I use non-blocking, I consume a lot of CPU. Is there a way to just subscribe to I/O events and designate a function to be run on each of those events?
<yorickpeterse> First off, if you're using MRI there's no proper threading going on
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<yorickpeterse> Second, non-blocking shouldn't use a lot of CPU, at least not by design
<yorickpeterse> (i.e. it's not a "feature")
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<yorickpeterse> But, you can use ionotify for example to act when a file changes
<pangel> yorickpeterse: Then I'm doing it wrong. I have a loop akin to: while true do recvfrom_nonblock; other_stuff; end
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<yorickpeterse> Yeah, that's the issue: `while true` is more or less a way of saing "Do this thing really really really fast and often"
<yorickpeterse> CPUs don't like that
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<yorickpeterse> A very easy way to get around that (assuming you can't use something else than a loop) is to just insert a sleep statement
<yorickpeterse> e.g. `loop { do_some_work; sleep(0.1); }`
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<pangel> Yes, seems much better. I'll look into ionotify though. Also, would fibers help me here?
<pangel> (This is probably a confused question, though. I just read about fibers a while ago and I wonder if they're related to what I am doing)
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<yorickpeterse> errr, depends on what you're doing
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<yorickpeterse> What exactly are you trying to achieve?
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<Technodrome> I got offered a ruby job a few days ago, hence why I'm here :P
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<Technodrome> I've used ruby for years, but haven't used it in a few years
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<pangel> listen/send on udp to multiple peers and display stats in real time about these peers
<yorickpeterse> pangel: Did you look into ZeroMQ?
<pangel> yorickpeterse: no!
<yorickpeterse> Either way, you're better off using a pub/sub model instead of polling like a mofo
<yorickpeterse> The latter is not only CPU intensive but also network intensive (of course depending on the size of the packets)
<judofyr> pangel: you can use IO.select. it will block until the IOs are ready for reading/writing
<yorickpeterse> pangel: http://www.zeromq.org/ There's a lot to read but it takes a lot of cruft from dealing with TCP/UDP
<pangel> yorickpeterse: how does ZeroMQ does it?
<pangel> judofyr: Well, how do I do other things in the meantime without threads?
<judofyr> pangel: you might find this article useful if you want to do it from scratch: https://practicingruby.com/articles/shared/ehiyknnsskrr
<pangel> yorickpeterse: does "using a pub/sub model" include ionotify?
<yorickpeterse> ionotify is for file based IO only
<yorickpeterse> ZeroMQ offers several ways such as pub/sub and a bunch of others
<yorickpeterse> I believe it also has some queue like system built in, has been a while since I played around with it
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<pangel> thanks
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<Technodrome> judofyr: you got a startup? or was that someone else
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<judofyr> Technodrome: nah. I'm working for nordaaker.com
<Technodrome> you in norway judofyr ?
<judofyr> Technodrome: yes
<Technodrome> why is the website in english? :)
<judofyr> Technodrome: nordaaker.no
<Technodrome> an
<Technodrome> that's more like it! Can't make out a word now heheh
<judofyr> Technodrome: where are you from?
<Technodrome> Miami Florida
<Technodrome> a bit far from you
<judofyr> yeah
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<Technodrome> ever visited Miami judofyr ? I see lots of scandinavians around
<judofyr> nope
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<defishguy> Does anyone have a suggestion for getting help with gitlab & ldap?
<kalleth> woah
<kalleth> judofyr: actually using domains to properly localise your site?
<kalleth> holy shit
<kalleth> first time for everything
<kalleth> :P
<judofyr> ;)
<kalleth> i thought domains were just 'buy as many as you can and redirect them all to the same site' ;)
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<crazyhorse> is there anyway to switch of YAML referencing when calling to_yaml?
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<socialcoder> hello All
<judofyr> hello socialcoder
<socialcoder> A Ruby Newbie here
<socialcoder> hello judo
<judofyr> socialcoder: do you like it?
<socialcoder> I am in love
<socialcoder> just that I am new to programming itself
<socialcoder> did a foundation course with Lynda
<judofyr> ah
<socialcoder> and now studying Learn Ruby The Hard Way
<crazyhorse> aahh very new
<socialcoder> yes, very new
<judofyr> we were all there once ;)
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<crazyhorse> yeah some of the ruby concepts i found hard to wrap my head around.. even though i'd been already coding for 10 years
<socialcoder> I am so glad I did not go with HTML/CSS .
<crazyhorse> like lamdas procs and blocks mainly
<socialcoder> I was confused, but after 10 exercises, I am happy
<judofyr> crazyhorse: I was so proud when I understood `yield`
<crazyhorse> judofyr: yeah god
<crazyhorse> i read that chapter of the book about 3 times
<crazyhorse> now it seems obvious
<judofyr> I know
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<socialcoder> I wanted to know the difference between #{} and %s ( %[] ). Can you tell me if there is one, as theyboth have same functioning.
<crazyhorse> socialcoder: html/css are essential ... they are part of your toolkit
<crazyhorse> #{} is used inside strings
<socialcoder> true, I learnt the basics. I even designed a few websites
<judofyr> socialcoder: well, the end result is the same (both calls #to_s and creates a new string)
<crazyhorse> so lets say you have a string "#{this_will_run_as_ruby_code} where as this is a boring string"
<socialcoder> so, there is no difference then?
<socialcoder> go on please
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<crazyhorse> however '#{this_wont_do_anything_since_its_single_quoted}'
<socialcoder> I hear ya
<socialcoder> its part of a STRING
<crazyhorse> yep %s
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<judofyr> socialcoder: well, there's some edge cases though. `"%s" % [1, 2, 3]` returns "1", but "#{[1, 2, 3]}" returns "[1, 2, 3]"
<crazyhorse> has nothing to do with strings
<socialcoder> why does it do that
<crazyhorse> %s(bla) is the same as doing :bla
<judofyr> socialcoder: so it's more correct to say that "%s" % […] is similar to "#{…}"
<crazyhorse> it's some weird syntax for creating symbols
<socialcoder> hmm
<crazyhorse> ah sorry.. i'm talking about something else.. listen to judofyr
<socialcoder> np
<crazyhorse> "%s" % something
<crazyhorse> substitues something into %s in the string
<socialcoder> oh s sstands for something?
<socialcoder> didnt know that
<judofyr> socialcoder: string
<socialcoder> ah ok
<judofyr> there's lots of options
<socialcoder> will check it out
<crazyhorse> so if you had "one is %s, two is %s", % [1,2] gives you "one is 1, two is 2"
<judofyr> you can add padding, convert to hex
<crazyhorse> judofry: i found ruby a little bit overwhelming compared to php at first
<crazyhorse> just because there were so many methods
<judofyr> socialcoder: "foo" % bar is just a shortcut for sprintf("foo", bar)
<crazyhorse> lol, after you know most of them.. seems nice :)
<socialcoder> one question guys
<judofyr> crazyhorse: yeah, and it's often easier to search for PHP functions (because they are all in one namespace)
<judofyr> crazyhorse: but yeah, it's kinda annoying that they're all in the same namespace ;)
<whitequark> judofyr: it's not like php has significantly less functions
<whitequark> after you account all the extensions and stuff
<socialcoder> I know this is subjective, but currently I am committing 2 hours per day to learning. Think in about 3 months, I will know the language to build something simple, or move to advanced level?
<crazyhorse> it's funny i'd just written my first MVC framework in php (which was pretty basic and crap).. and i found rails.. so i just swtiched instead
<judofyr> whitequark: nope. (I didn't say so either?)
<crazyhorse> socialcoder: should be able to build something pretty good after 3 months
<crazyhorse> socialcoder: get a copy of "The Ruby Programming Language" by david flannigan
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<socialcoder> i was thinking after learn hard way, will move to beginning ruby, perter cooper. Bad idea?
<crazyhorse> if you go through that, it's unlikley you'll have any basic questions for anyone
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<crazyhorse> i don't know.. just recommend books i love :)
<socialcoder> wow, its that good a book?
<socialcoder> haha ok
<judofyr> socialcoder: I've heard good things about it (Beginning Ruby)
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<socialcoder> judofyr: me too
<socialcoder> if I am not irritating you guys, is there a place where I can find ruby tutorials/project to practice? so I can get good at the codes?
<socialcoder> I maybe searching wrong, but after all day, thats the only I found
<socialcoder> theres lot for rails, but not for Ruby
<socialcoder> :(
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<charliesome> woo i created a second inheritance root
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<socialcoder> none you guys know of?
<charliesome> http://eval.in/4516
<socialcoder> is that for me charlie bro?
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<charliesome> socialcoder: nope
<socialcoder> oops
<socialcoder> sorry
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<whitequark> charliesome: cool hack
<whitequark> not sure what could you achieve with it through :)
<charliesome> you can make a class inherit from itself
<charliesome> http://eval.in/4518
<charliesome> abuses this line of code in rb_mod_init_copy: RCLASS_SUPER(clone) = RCLASS_SUPER(orig);
<charliesome> http://eval.in/4519
<judofyr> charliesome: awesome
<charliesome> oh sweet, turns out if you turn Class#initialize_copy into a super
<charliesome> you can change the superclass of existing classes
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<whitequark> eww
<charliesome> judofyr: you know how you wanted class Symbol < String ?
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<judofyr> charliesome: :D
<judofyr> charliesome: wait, where is initialize_copy defined?
<judofyr> charliesome: link to source?
<charliesome> class.c
<whitequark> judofyr: why would you want such a thing?
<charliesome> line 207
<whitequark> the proper way
<judofyr> whitequark: because it makes more sense than to add more String methods to Symbol
<judofyr> whitequark: (note, I wanted Symbols to be *frozen* strings)
<charliesome> judofyr: http://eval.in/4526
<whitequark> judofyr: Symbols are not Strings and shouldn't be
<charliesome> whitequark: yes they are
<charliesome> whitequark: proof: see the paste
<whitequark> your code does not need to introspect symbols
<whitequark> and if it actually does, which is rare, use #to_s
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<judofyr> charliesome: segfaults when I pasted it into Pry
<whitequark> dynamic linking in modern OSes is a very good example of using symbols correctly
<charliesome> judofyr: excellent!
<charliesome> judofyr: http://eval.in/4527
<whitequark> what you actually need is a fast way to compare two abstract identifiers or search in a hash with an abstract identifier as a key
<judofyr> calling *any* method segfaults
<charliesome> that rocks
<whitequark> the fact that symbols are defined as character sequences is an implementation detail arising from the fact that program code is a character sequence, not the need to represent symbols as character sequences.
<charliesome> breaking ruby is fun
<whitequark> so, the rare case when you actually need a character sequence out of a symbol is metaprogramming
<whitequark> in every other case just use strings
<whitequark> /rant.
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<whitequark> as a more concrete example, foundry doesn't have strings corresponding to symbols at runtime at all.
<whitequark> which doesn't hurt even a single task related to metaprogramming, of course, because you don't do metaprogramming at runtime
<whitequark> I'm insanely grateful to matz that he decided to keep Symbols in the language and not just make Strings python-alike.
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<charliesome> whitequark: i'm insanely grateful to matz that he didn't make ruby python-alike
<whitequark> btw, do $ readelf -S `which ruby`
<whitequark> see that .hash? it's a hash where the keys are symbols (readelf -s) and values are method bodies
<charliesome> whitequark: just because symbols are little more than numbers with names traditionally doesn't mean ruby can't have something a little higher level
<whitequark> charliesome: my point is, if you need something higher level than that bad enough, that often means that you are simply doing the wrong thing
<whitequark> I'd instead like to see more identifier-specific methods on Symbol, notably methods adding ?!= suffixes and stripping them
<whitequark> those would be quite relevant and useful
<charliesome> open a feature request
<charliesome> Symbol#{ivar, cvar, gvar} would also be handy
<charliesome> that sticks @, @@ or $ in front
<whitequark> charliesome: I will, when I'd get an idea of how the API should look like
<whitequark> yup, that too
<charliesome> maybe Symbol#{predicate, bang, setter} ?
<charliesome> dunno a better name for bang
<judofyr> #danger_zone
<charliesome> #looks_cool
<whitequark> #bang is good enough IMO
<whitequark> :foo.predicate # => :foo?
<whitequark> looks nice
<charliesome> :foo!.bang == :foo!
<charliesome> ?
<whitequark> charliesome: yes
<judofyr> charliesome: error?
<charliesome> cool
<charliesome> judofyr: ?
<judofyr> charliesome: maybe :foo!.bang should throw an error?
<whitequark> charliesome: #suffix would strip the suffix, as in :foo!.suffix => :"!", or simply ?!
<judofyr> charliesome: and what about :"nope foobar".bang ?
<charliesome> judofyr: that's something that can be discussed when whitequark posts the feature req
<judofyr> to the feature request tracker!
<whitequark> judofyr: :"nope foobar!", I don't see any problems with that
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<charliesome> judofyr: imo :"nope foobar".bang == :"nope foobar!" is good enough
<whitequark> just one more thing
<judofyr> yeah, I think I agree
<charliesome> whitequark: you know how there's to_s, to_i, etc
<judofyr> define_method allows methods with spaces, so yeah
<charliesome> whitequark: :foo.to_! #=> :foo!
<judofyr> oh bo
<judofyr> y
<whitequark> charliesome: but #to_= won't work
<charliesome> #to_=() ?
<judofyr> that's … fascainating
<judofyr> charliesome: ugly
<whitequark> charliesome: what about a method which will return base and suffix?
<whitequark> :foo?.meth # => [:foo, :"?"]
<whitequark> maybe #name_and_suffix or #base_and_suffix ?
<charliesome> :foo?.parts perhaps?
<whitequark> charliesome: nice!
<whitequark> then the "basename" would be :foo?.without_suffix
<whitequark> and sym.with_suffix(:"?") because why not, it fits well
<charliesome> whitequark: http://eval.in/4530
<charliesome> what do you think?
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<whitequark> charliesome: nice, through I'd write just tests instead
<charliesome> yeah of course
<whitequark> the code will probably have to be in C to get it to MRI
<whitequark> but as a demonstration for the feature request it's quite nice
<charliesome> half of the symbol methods are in parse.y for god knows what reason
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<judofyr> parse.y is an … interesting file
<yorickpeterse> ugh, where's that quote of mine about it
<whitequark> sometimes I look at the MRI sources and wonder if they were produced by a genetic algorithm :/
<charliesome> sometimes i wonder how mri even runs
<charliesome> but i wonder that more about php
* yorickpeterse is acking his logs now
<whitequark> charliesome: php doesn't
<yorickpeterse> haha, the PHP parser is lol
<charliesome> it is a total joke
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: PHP parser? what's that?
<yorickpeterse> found it: "Oh, I wonder how Ruby parses X. I'll take a look at parse.y!" - No one, ever
<whitequark> there ain't such a thing as PHP parse
<charliesome> more like the php pattern matcher that can be recursive in some cases
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: fine, their regular expression engine that parses things backwards depending on the time of the day
<whitequark> charliesome: I just love how half of method names are special-cased in PHP parser
<yorickpeterse> I love how stuff like this is invalid:
<charliesome> whitequark: all the magic methods have their type signatures baked into the parser
<yorickpeterse> /*
<yorickpeterse> $foo = '*/';
<yorickpeterse> */
<yorickpeterse> ^ parser error
<charliesome> which will throw an error if you get the number of arguments wrong or whatever
<charliesome> yorickpeterse: lol seriously?
<yorickpeterse> yes
<charliesome> wow
<yorickpeterse> It's due to how it matches closing tags
<whitequark> even C can handle that
<charliesome> i love the <?php </script> one
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: nope
<yorickpeterse> I believe C breaks too with it
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: huh? check it yourself
<charliesome> yorickpeterse: i don't think it does
<yorickpeterse> Hm, might've been some other C variant (somebody else showed me it broke there too)
<charliesome> lol php: http://eval.in/4532
<charliesome> yorickpeterse: if you comment out a ?> it closes anyway
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: C raises the parse error at the first character of ';
<whitequark> which is correct actually
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: it makes sense as to why it happens, I just think it should not happen at all
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: so, the language should parse comment body and assume that you have syntactically correct code inside?
<yorickpeterse> I found out because I had a regex that ended with */
<whitequark> or at least matched string delimiters?
<charliesome> maybe i'm looking at the world through ruby coloured glasses, but you'd think this sort of thing would not cause a fatal error on compilation: http://eval.in/4533
<whitequark> that'd be a wtf as of itself
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: interesting enough Ruby itself handles it fine
<yorickpeterse> at least 1.9 does
<yorickpeterse> I believe 1.8 fails too
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: example
<whitequark> ?
<yorickpeterse> sure, second
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<yorickpeterse> Note that that's due to how =end works though
<yorickpeterse> I however believe that failed for the same reason in 1.8
<apeiros_> yorickpeterse: well, with ruby it's required that =end is at the start of the line
<whitequark> ^ that
<yorickpeterse> Hm no, it works
<apeiros_> w/o whitespace or anything
<apeiros_> if you had =end\n=end it'd fail too
<yorickpeterse> I had some more expanded pastie but it seems I've deleted it (it actually failed for somebody running 1.8)
<yorickpeterse> Point being: I know as to why, I just don't like it at all
<yorickpeterse> With Ruby it's ok since you don't really use =end for anything but block comments
<yorickpeterse> But it get annoying when you have some regex in a comment that ends with */
<yorickpeterse> e.g.
<whitequark> in fact every language with an O(n) parser would fail on that test
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: version control + delete code instead of commenting it out :)
<yorickpeterse> judofyr: that doesn't work if the code is an example
<yorickpeterse> errr, the comments
<yorickpeterse> I probably should've kept all the pasties I had of PHP failing hard at things
<charliesome> yorickpeterse: http://reddit.com/r/lolphp
<charliesome> this is my favourite: http://eval.in/492
<yorickpeterse> I know of that subreddit, and the PHP sadness website
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<charliesome> lmfao
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<yorickpeterse> Rasmus has more often that not stated he sucks at writing parsers
<yorickpeterse> Which makes me wonder why he still writes code to begin with
<charliesome> he says he hates coding
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<socialcoder> hello once again
<judofyr> socialcoder: hey
<injekt> that's relatively short
<yorickpeterse> note the heavy use of tabs for everything
<socialcoder> What is formatter in ruby? Can you help?
<yorickpeterse> "THe formatter"?
<yorickpeterse> class_name T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM T_STRING
<yorickpeterse> best bit
<socialcoder> yes
<socialcoder> formatter?
<yorickpeterse> Also known as the jew error
<injekt> formatter?
<socialcoder> I just typed in this code
<yorickpeterse> socialcoder: what do you mean with "the formatter"?
<charliesome> my favourite php source file is basic_functions.c
<injekt> formatter
<socialcoder> formatter = "%s %s %s %s"
<socialcoder> puts formatter % ["one", "two", "three", "four"]
<socialcoder> puts formatter % [formatter, formatter, formatter, formatter]
<socialcoder> puts formatter % [true, false, false, true]
<socialcoder> puts formatter % [1, 2, 3, 4]
<socialcoder> puts formatter % [
<socialcoder> "I had this thing.",
<socialcoder> "That you could type up right.",
<socialcoder> "But it didn't sing.",
<socialcoder> "So I said goodnight."
<socialcoder> ]
<injekt> lol
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<charliesome> socialcoder: see topic
<socialcoder> so, what does formatter do?
<yorickpeterse> socialcoder: Please don't paste code in this channel
<socialcoder> oh sorry
<yorickpeterse> Use a pastebin such as gist.github.com or pastie.org
<socialcoder> I didnt know it was against rules
<yorickpeterse> "formatter" in this case is just a variable
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<yorickpeterse> The % are used for formatting a string using (s)printf
<socialcoder> just a variable?
<yorickpeterse> formatter = "%s %s %s %s" # <= assigns the string to the local variable "formatter"
<socialcoder> why is it formatter = %s %s %s %s
<yorickpeterse> puts formatter % [1, 2, 3, 4] # <= formats "formatter" with the values to the right and displays it
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<yorickpeterse> charliesome: mother of god
<charliesome> yay arbitrary limits
<charliesome> yorickpeterse: how is that different to rb_bug
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<whitequark> charliesome: note how the first one is a E_WARNING
<whitequark> fucking warning
<charliesome> oh lol
<yorickpeterse> exactly
<yorickpeterse> and when Ruby bugs out it at least provides you with some info
<yorickpeterse> What happens when PHP segfaults? It just does
<charliesome> behaviour is %d
<charliesome> yorickpeterse: php segfaults from recursion
<yorickpeterse> wat
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<charliesome> yorickpeterse: http://eval.in/4537
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<yorickpeterse> heh
<charliesome> also from creating deeply nested objects
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<charliesome> http://eval.in/4538
<whitequark> call_user_func ?
<charliesome> whitequark: like send
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: send() basically
<charliesome> in #4538 php blows the c stack calling dtors
<whitequark> why the hell cannot I just write f() ?
<yorickpeterse> until 5.3 you could only pass function names to it
<yorickpeterse> 5.3 introduced shitty closures
<charliesome> whitequark: f() makes php run out of memory instead of segfault
<charliesome> because it pushes a zend stack frame
<charliesome> call_user_func forces it onto the c stack
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: php's closures are not gc'd afaik
<yorickpeterse> Not sure, the GC in general is shit
<whitequark> well, they're not actually anonymous
<whitequark> it's __lambda_$crap or something like that
<whitequark> global methods
<charliesome> whitequark: that's pre 5.3 'anonymous' functions
<charliesome> 5.3 introduces proper closures, for some definition of proper
<yorickpeterse> Interesting enough PHP 5.3 uses classes for closures, yet you can't really do anything useful with those classes
<charliesome> you have to explicitly declare variables you want to close over, and you can't change them unless you close over them by reference
<charliesome> i asked the php-internals list why they did that
<charliesome> "optimization"
<yorickpeterse> $foo = function() use ($all, $the, $fucking, $things) { }
<yorickpeterse> ^ I hate that shit
<charliesome> $x = 1; $f = function() use($x) { $x = 2; }; $f(); echo $x;
<charliesome> -> 1
<whitequark> charliesome: so, they're not closures
<whitequark> at all
<charliesome> whitequark: nope
<charliesome> just functions that can copy symbol table entries
<whitequark> a fractal of bad design indeed.
<charliesome> "hey other languages have this feature! how can we emulate that?"
<yorickpeterse> their attempt at webrick is also cute
* yorickpeterse is very happy with no longer having to write any PHP
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: attempt at webrick?
<injekt> wow we're still talking about php eh :D
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<masterkorp> lçasdalkajkfasldklajsda
<masterkorp> lol pHp
<injekt> even Php Hates Php
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<whitequark> So now you just have to create your own XSLT stylesheet to perform any operations you want (code optimization, code obfuscation, whatever...).
<whitequark> ROFL.
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<yorickpeterse> Nothing wrong with XSLT
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: try to write an optimizer with XSLT which works on ASTs
<whitequark> and you'll understand
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<yorickpeterse> ...
<yorickpeterse> I wasn't serious when I said that
<apeiros_> you guys know enterprise ruby, yes?
<apeiros_> (not ruby enterprise edition)
<yorickpeterse> Enterprise X
<yorickpeterse> and of course Piet: https://leanpub.com/piet
<whitequark> just added 1.9.3-p327 to rxr: http://rxr.whitequark.org/mri/source/?v=1.9.3-p327
<andrewvos> The best thing about XSLT is the serial killer looking guy on that big XSLT book. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/414KH5YA0RL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg
<apeiros_> you have to watch the demo tenderlove and zenspider gave
<apeiros_> I almost pissed my pants :)
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<yorickpeterse> hahahaha
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<andrewvos> GAHH
<andrewvos> Is there anything better than RJB?
<judofyr> RJB?
<andrewvos> I need to use java, but I don't want the overhead of jruby.
<andrewvos> judofyr: Ruby Java Bridge.
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<judofyr> overhead? as in startup time?
<andrewvos> Yeap
<judofyr> interesting. never seen RJB.
<rue_XIW> Because of JRuby
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<andrewvos> judofyr: And also we have a large suite of tests and everyones getting pretty pissed off with having to use jruby.
<yorickpeterse> You can tweak the JVM to death but it will always take a while to start
<whitequark> andrewvos: shotgun?
<yorickpeterse> give your co-workers proper chairs and plastic swords
<yorickpeterse> they'll be able to entertain themselves when the JVM is booting
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<andrewvos> whitequark: I'm tired of fixing the symptoms.
<judofyr> andrewvos: drip? https://github.com/flatland/drip
<andrewvos> judofyr: Couldn't get it working. Also, see above :)
<judofyr> :)
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<rue_XIW> RJB sounds like a pretty terrible idea
<whitequark> andrewvos: symptoms of what?
<whitequark> as in, jruby is faster than mri
<andrewvos> whitequark: jruby.
<whitequark> and it's not a disease per se.
<andrewvos> whitequark: Yeah, great. It's fast. I'm not waiting 10 seconds for my tests to start though.
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<andrewvos> whitequark: Also, not all gems work in jruby.
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<charliesome> andrewvos: 10 seconds? count yourself lucky
<charliesome> that's pretty tame as far as some startup times go
<andrewvos> charliesome: Yeah I'm estimating here. I've normally opened up facebook or twitter by that time because I'm so irritated at how slowly it starts - so I'm not sure how long it takes.
<charliesome> cough rails, mri, loads of gems
<charliesome> anyway ttyl #ruby-lang
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<andrewvos> Seeya, ruby celebrity
<rking> Haha
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<jds> Heya
<andrewvos> hiyo
<andrewvos> hehehe
<andrewvos> I'm doing something evil
<andrewvos> Instead of using jruby to interact with sikuli, I'm going to use a sikuli wrapper that allows xmlrpc calls.
<andrewvos> From MRI
<andrewvos> MRI->xmlrpc->sikuli-wrapper->sikuli
<yorickpeterse> You sure you're not over-engineering/thinking it?
<andrewvos> yorickpeterse: I just need to get rid of jruby today. This is my goal.
<andrewvos> yorickpeterse: So if you can think of a better way, please let me know :)
<yorickpeterse> hm
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<yorickpeterse> Hm, no ruby-core Emails all day
<yorickpeterse> Something must be wrong
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<andrewvos> What's an easy way to fork to a child process like a repl and write commands to its stdin?
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<yorickpeterse> Open3 should do
<judofyr> no, no, no
<judofyr> Process.spawn
<judofyr> it can do everything Open3 can also do
<yorickpeterse> oh?
<yorickpeterse> Well, he's talking about forking in this case
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<judofyr> "fork to a child process like a repl"
<andrewvos> So how do I write to its stdin?
<andrewvos> judofyr: To confirm, I'm forking an application that allows interactive input. I want to be able to execute commands in it.
<judofyr> andrewvos: r, w = IO.pipe; fork { $stdin = r }; w << "hello"
<judofyr> andrewvos: I'm not sure if you can redirect the IO in a fork
<judofyr> andrewvos: actually, try $stdin.reopen(r) instead
<andrewvos> hmm
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<andrewvos> I need to be able to read from its output until it shows a ">>>", which means it's ready.
<judofyr> andrewvos: why do you need to fork? are you sure you're not talking about a child process?
<andrewvos> judofyr: Yeah I am talking about a child process.
<andrewvos> judofyr: Sorry I'm not too clued up on the terminology here.
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<judofyr> andrewvos: hehe. no worries. something like this: http://cl.ly/text/3x0X3t3j2E0Y
<judofyr> andrewvos: but yeah, in this case, Open3 probably does the heavy work for you
<judofyr> sorry yorickpeterse
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<judofyr> open3("irb") do |i, o, e| i << "1+1\n"; o.read end
<yorickpeterse> :>
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<andrewvos> judofyr: What's the "e"?
<ddd> error
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<ddd> input output error
<ddd> (forgot to prefix each of those with std)
<andrewvos> Erm, where do I require open3 from :/
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<andrewvos> Oh wait got it
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<andrewvos> this? Open3.popen3
<injekt> yes
<jtoy> excuse the silly question, how do i escape this properly, I am trying to run this: id=1081; file = 'foo.txt'; cmd = "grep -m 1 \"\\\"id\\\":#{id},\" #{file} " but the end keeps getting cut off
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<tockitj_> how to debug ruby app that has freezed on remote server ?
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<yorickpeterse> tockitj_: kill it
<tockitj_> oook?
<yorickpeterse> You can't really debug something that has frozen
<tockitj_> why not ?
<yorickpeterse> ..because it's frozen?
<andrewvos> injekt: Thanks
<yorickpeterse> Therefor it does, most likely, not respond to anything
<tockitj_> i don't know what is reason it does not respond
<yorickpeterse> What have you tried/
<jtoy> nm, my silly mistake
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<tockitj_> maybe some kind of remote pry debugging thingie ?
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<tockitj_> i don't know if ruby vm is stuck really
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<andrewvos> judofyr: Why would stdout.read be blocking?
<judofyr> andrewvos: it should be blocking until the process exists
<judofyr> exits*
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<andrewvos> judofyr: Oh :(
<andrewvos> judofyr: I need to get access to stdin for a while
<judofyr> andrewvos: use while chunk = out.readpartial(4092)
<andrewvos> judofyr: I need this to be open a while
<andrewvos> yay thanks judofyr
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<mfn> I'm using pry-debugger; any idea how can I access the variable "cat" without renaming it? Pry maps it to the shell command cat ...
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<andrewvos> mfn: self.cat ?
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<mfn> O_O
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<banisterfiend> mfn: just indent
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<banisterfiend> mfn: commands are only looked up if they're hard against the margin
<mfn> banisterfiend: works, thank you!
<mfn> (self didn't)
<banisterfiend> mfn: alternatively prepend a ; (semicolon)
<banisterfiend> mfn: because cat is a local?
<banisterfiend> self.x can only be used if x is a method
<judofyr> yeah
<judofyr> "any idea how can I access the variable "cat" without renaming it"
<banisterfiend> mfn: alternatively if you hate that pry commands get precedence over ruby code in general, then set a: Pry.config.command_prefix = "%"
<judofyr> mfn: working on a social network for cats?
<mfn> judofyr: sounds ridiculous without context :)
<injekt> who isn't?
<banisterfiend> that enforces u to use a %cat instead of just 'cat', and so on for all commands
<andrewvos> mfn: Yeah dude. Terrible variable name -.-
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<mfn> it's the short for "category" actually ...
<injekt> not if it's an instance of Cat..
<injekt> ow
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<judofyr> mfn: I'm working with categories in a project now. so many of many loops look like: categories.each { |cat| … }
<judofyr> hahaha
<judofyr> :D
<andrewvos> mfn: Then I suggest you type "egory"
<injekt> egory, makes no sense as a variable name
<injekt> c'mon
<judofyr> many of the*
<andrewvos> injekt: shut uuuuppp
<injekt> andrewvos: <3
<andrewvos> :)
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<judofyr> andrewvos: I'll add this line to my code: egory = "andrewvos says this make sense"
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<andrewvos> :)
<andrewvos> EGORY
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<judofyr> egory: maybe I just should start to call you that
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<judofyr> egory: I really need to write that nick-mutation plugin to LimeChat.
<judofyr> so I can tab-complete both you and apieros
<injekt> lol
<judofyr> and you inkjet
<andrewvos> Good idea, judofry!
<injekt> ^
<andrewvos> Haha inkjet
<injekt> oh come on that's too easy
<injekt> even I think it says inkjet sometimes
<andrewvos> ninjekt
<andrewvos> I wish I was really good at making popular gems, so that I could use peoples names as gem names just to troll them.
<judofyr> gem install zenspider
<andrewvos> judofyr: And then people would come in here complaining how slow or buggy zenspider is.
<judofyr> gem install dhh
<sent-hil> which keywords other than super accept blocks?
<judofyr> maybe we can implement a modern Heckle as dhh?
<judofyr> "DHH randomly rewrites your code and runs your test to see if it still works"
<judofyr> sent-hil: hm… I think that's the only one
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<sent-hil> judofyr: cool
<yorickpeterse> gem install ddh # A gem that restarts your application every 10 minutes
<judofyr> sent-hil: cool? :P
<yorickpeterse> err dhh
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: ah. a reloader. not bad.
<sent-hil> judofyr: :)
<yorickpeterse> gem install tenderlove # Random ASCII art of a guy with a mullet wearing a swimming suit
<injekt> I should write 'injekt' which just aliases inject
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<injekt> yeah stupid
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<andrewvos> gem install steveklabnik #=> steveklabnik requires feminism >= "1"
<lianj> :D
<andrewvos> also, silly-haircut >= 1
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<injekt> heh
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<Spaceghost|cloud> andrewvos: Not very classy making fun of him when he's not here.
<Spaceghost|cloud> As much as I'm not one of his fans, he's a great contributor.
<Spaceghost|cloud> But you know, fuck dhh. :p
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<Uranio> could somebody please, subscribe my email address to rubytalk mailing list
<Uranio> I apply for it a lot of times but don't get any email
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<thekungfuman> I have a scope question: I have a script that makes a few SOAP connections and a MySQL connection. Several parts of the script need access to those SOAP and MySQL objects after they're created which is easy when everything is a constant or a global but they're inaccessible if I refactor parts out into methods unless I pass all of them into basically every method. What is the right way to make those objects accessible? Consta
<thekungfuman> ethods?
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<thekungfuman> If that's too obvious of a question and someone wants to just point me to a good resource that's fine too. ^_^
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<Smol> I think your question cut off after "What is the right way to make those objects accessible?"
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* imperator waves
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* ddd waves back
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<thekungfuman> It did truncate a little but there isn't much useful after that.
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<zzak> imperator: hi!
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<imperator> wassup zzak?
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<jds> Is there a more natural way of expressing "if ['foo', 'bar'].include?(value) ... " ?
<jds> It feels a bit like the C people who insist on "if (1==value)" rather than "if (value==1)"
<drbrain> jds: you can make it prettier or (possibly) more efficient, but that's the natural way
<drbrain> … you could use a case statement too
<imperator> people have unsuccessfully campaigned for an Object#in? method in the past, though
<drbrain> case value; when 'foo', 'bar' then … end
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<TTilus> ive noticed that im nowadays using case where i had previously used if
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<rue> Use case
<banisterfiend> rue: what's the temperature in .fi these days
<rue> It’s been just a bit below 0
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<TTilus> -6,9 °C right now, @ Jyväskylä
<banisterfiend> same here in holland, it's horrible
<TTilus> banisterfiend: compared to what?
<banisterfiend> TTilus: 6,9 is the quirky european way of saying 6.9 right?
<banisterfiend> TTilus: to what i'm used to in new zealand
<rue> banisterfiend: Uu, dutchlands. You there long?
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<rue> Also, yes, the SI used to mandate a decimal comma. Now a dot is accepted, too…which I prefer.
<banisterfiend> rue: i've moved here, so i'll be here for the forseeble future
<rue> (Because 100,000.00 is better than 100 000,00
<rue> banisterfiend: Ah! Cool, didn’t hear about that. We’re bound to meet at one of the EU conferences, then ;)
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<banisterfiend> rue: are you going to ams.rb on the 19th of dec?
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<rue> No, I don’t think I can make that :P
<banisterfiend> me either probably (i think i missed signing up hehe)
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* TTilus likes 100&#8239;000,00
<TTilus> banisterfiend: temperatures between -5 and -10 °C are pretty much optimal for winter :)
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<TTilus> banisterfiend: u dont need bit uncomfy extra gear to ride a bike, not too slippery, no slush
<rue> I’ve been riding to work without a jacket the last couple days. Had < -10 earlier so now it feels warm
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<banisterfiend> TTilus: but dont you still skid on the ice?
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<TTilus> banisterfiend: only if i want to ;)
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<TTilus> which happens every now and then
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<banisterfiend> TTilus: do you wear thermals?
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<TTilus> rue: its always surprinsing how body tunes itself for winter, first +5 feels terrible, after first < -20 it feels like summer when you're back to -10
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<TTilus> banisterfiend: "thermals"?
<TTilus> banisterfiend: sorry, not _that_ native english speaker
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<TTilus> banisterfiend: ok, google image search helped =D
<TTilus> banisterfiend: no i dont
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<banisterfiend> TTilus: do you guys have santa claus?
<TTilus> banisterfiend: we do http://www.rareexportsmovie.com/
<banisterfiend> TTilus: living in holland they have two santa clauses, one is called "sintaklaas" and he wears a popes hat and has black slaves, but they also have the standard "santa claus", too
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<TTilus> banisterfiend: we now have the standard ho-ho-ho-santa
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<TTilus> banisterfiend: used to have "nuuttipukki" too, (you might try to squeeze that http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuuttipukki thru google translate and have your brain hurt)
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<TTilus> banisterfiend: yup, the original santa
<tockitj_> where to configure list of directories that ri will search ?
<banisterfiend> TTilus: was he banned for being racist? :)
<TTilus> tockitj_: it doesnt use loadpath?
<TTilus> banisterfiend: so 201X =D
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<tockitj_> TTilus, no
<tockitj_> might have something to do with rvm though
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<freedrull> cant really understand the difference between "string".to_sym and "string".intern ...... :|
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<ddfreyne> freedrull: they are the same
<TTilus> freedrull: who says they differ?
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<rue> Interning is an inherited term
<freedrull> so they are the same after all ?
<freedrull> just assumed there would be a difference i guess
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<TTilus> freedrull: if you check the source using your favorite ruby core documentation browser you see that in MRI they both are implemented by the same rb_str_intern() C-function
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<banisterfiend> TTilus: just use: show-source String#intern and show-source String#to_sym :P
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<TTilus> \o/
<TTilus> banisterfiend: how could i forget!
<banisterfiend> esp. with me spamming #ruby-lang all the time ;)
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<imperator> String.instance_method(:intern) == String.instance_method(:to_sym) # => true
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<apeiros_> interesting technique to check for aliases
<cirwin> ObjectSpace.each_object(String).all?{ |x| (x.intern rescue nil) == (x.to_sym rescue nil) } <-- seems to work
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<freedrull> well i found some code that was like :symbol.to_s.intern and i was like wat
<freedrull> either this is terrible code or there is actually a difference
<freedrull> wait i think it would be terrible either way
<yorickpeterse> makes some sense due to symbols being created using rb_intern() in the C code
<cirwin> terrible code, do they not know the law of demeter?!
<freedrull> to_s.to_s.to_s
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<cirwin> that code is fine
<freedrull> hehe
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<apeiros_> freedrull: that looks like somebody not understanding what he does
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<TTilus> AnActiveRecordModel.class.to_s.undrscore.singularize.classify.constantize.table_name ftw
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<apeiros_> superlong.chain.of.methods.with.no.clear.name.as.to.the.intent.awesome!
<TTilus> damn, bug, s/.class//
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<yorickpeterse> apeiros_: BUT CODE IS SELF DOCUMENTING!!!111
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<whitequark> this is insane
<apeiros_> yorickpeterse: code.document_yourself!
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<yorickpeterse> code.document_yourself! # => "gem install yard"
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: what part of it?
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<apeiros_> yorickpeterse: for yard, I still have to write the docs myself :(
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: personally I would like to see a more central organization (think the Python Foundation) but I'm not sure if much more than that will work out well for Ruby
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<drbrain> whitequark: I'm concerned that Brian didn't remove the matz veto bit after the developer meeting
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<drbrain> the lack of compromise on anything after the developers meeting makes me feel insulted
<whitequark> yorickpeterse, drbrain: I'm sad to see so much desire for control in the proposal
<yorickpeterse> hmm
<whitequark> basically he says to ruby-core folks that they are no more designing Ruby in any way. regardless of how it would be actually good or not, I don't see how such a proposal will get accepted
<drbrain> also, "Once all Council members have implemented the feature, the feature can be discussed in concrete terms"
<drbrain> so everybody has to implement something before it can become part of ruby
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<ddd> drbrain: he didn't remove it from what I read. in fact matz specifically said it would be over his dead body (the mortal grounds comment) before he gave up that right, but he would exercise control in its use
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<drbrain> ddd: yup
<havenn> I, for one, support our benevolent dictator for life. (At least Brixen hasn't supported murdering him, yet.)
<ddd> stress the yet :)
<drbrain> havenn: your parenthetical is quite a ways over the top
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<yorickpeterse> tbh I find it somewhat arrogant to try and take away control of Ruby from matz
<havenn> drbrain: Sorry, I jest.
<yorickpeterse> after all he does still "own" the language (for as much as that is possible with a language)
<ddd> he might, if he doesn't get more help on writing the rubyspecs for features as was mentioned in the meeting
<havenn> drbrain: I thought Matz's corporeal form comment was funny.
<drbrain> havenn: I know, just because I disagree with brixen's proposal doesn't mean we have to stuff words in his mouth
<havenn> drbrain: Very true.
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<ddd> i think that was more cracking a joke than anything
<ddd> bad one maybe, but a joke none the less :)
<havenn> ddd: I've never been good with telling jokes. Runs in my family. :(
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<drbrain> ddd: yeah, I just don't want to derail reasonable discussion with perceived personal slights :D
<ddd> hehe my 12yo daughter says I am 'devoid of any sense of humor' nor do I own a funny bone as she puts it
<havenn> <3 MRI, <3 RBX, etc. etc.!
<ddd> drbrain: totally understandable and correct standing
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<whitequark> ha, got blocked by Brian on twitter. nice.
<banisterfiend> whitequark: waht did u say to him?
<ddd> anyways, back to ripping out activerecord, replacing with sequel, and moving off mri to jruby. later all (and now to find a suitable replacement for standalone-migrations that supports sequel as well)
<ddd> whitequark: hehe we both have
<whitequark> https://twitter.com/whitequark have I actually insulted him?
<havenn> Puma on Rubinius really is awesome, but I'd really love for Rainbows::ActorSpawn to lose its mutex for native Rubinus Actors!: http://rainbows.rubyforge.org/Rainbows/ActorSpawn.html
<yorickpeterse> ddd: Sequel has a migrations system
<ddd> oh? then i've obviously not dug deep enough.
<whitequark> banisterfiend: not sure which particular tweet got him so offended, twitter won't let me see that anymore.
<rue> Oo, dramaz
<yorickpeterse> ddd: yeah hold on
<ddd> yorickpeterse: similar to standalone-migrations g model MyModel name:text etc? (rather than having to code them all by hand though I suppose I should probably just do that and quit relying on generators)
<yorickpeterse> There are no generators for Sequel but migrations are quite trivial to write
<headius> whitequark: he blocked you?
<ddd> oh yeah I did that already. i manually wrote my migration tables
<whitequark> headius: yes
<yorickpeterse> Sequel also doesn't set the field definitions in the model, it retrieves it automatically
<headius> if anyone should get that treatment I'd think it would be me
<yorickpeterse> At least he didn't tell you to go fuck yourself, unlike a certain other Rubyist
<yorickpeterse> correction: Rails-ist
<ddd> right, with s-m it created the model migration for me, i can do that by hand. i should stop relying on generators to do all my stuff for me anyways hehe
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<wmoxam> whitequark: it seems he didn't like that you suggested that he may be trolling
<wmoxam> :p
<yorickpeterse> ddd: s-m?
<ddd> standalone-migrations gem
<banisterfiend> whitequark: i dont get it either..i guess he's a bit sensitive
<yorickpeterse> ddd: Ah, never heard of it
<drbrain> yorickpeterse: what was personally amusing about that one is that the certain Rails-ist spouted off after 90 minutes of reasonable conversation with between his coworker and the targeted party
<ddd> basically the rails generator for migrations+models made standalone
<drbrain> -with
<whitequark> wmoxam: I've said that it _looks like_ he is trolling. as in, his proposal is _not productive_.
<whitequark> but he doesn't seem to understand that no matter how I tried to explain.
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<yorickpeterse> drbrain: oh?
<wmoxam> :/
<ddd> but, i've been bitching because everything auto-assumes rails stuff (like ActiveRecord and RAILS_ENV) and I don't like it so might as well do the dirty myself.
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<drbrain> yorickpeterse: yeah, Ryan Biggs and Sam Stephenson were discussing how Sam didn't have enough time and couldn't find a suitable new maintainer
<banisterfiend> drbrain: bigg's comment was still a little bit snarky ;)
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: at least dhh doesn't try to force everyone to work like he does it.
<banisterfiend> biggs'
<yorickpeterse> drbrain: ah
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: sadly his code says otherwise
<drbrain> banisterfiend: sure, but Sam and Ryan were still able to discuss it civilly
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: you mean the whole "convention over configuration" concept?
<yorickpeterse> or at least his ideoligies, he doesn't write that much code himself these days I believe
<yorickpeterse> Yes
<yorickpeterse> * ideologies
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: the programming style and the programming process are different things
<ddd> he's passive-agressive. when i was working RVM with wayne and michal he got all bitchy because we passed on information one of *his* team members told us, and he jumped all in my crap because we didn't ask *him* first,and then proceeded to have wayne called on the carpet at his *job* to try to get me kicked off the RVM project, and then did it *again* over the same issue until wayne basically told him and his job this is an opensour
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: dhh's projects force a certain style, which is a valid thing as of itself, but you might use any process you want
<yorickpeterse> ddd: wat
<ddd> but never said a word to *me* other than i 'should know who he is' (in the best dhh-mimicry style)
<ddd> yorickpeterse: oh yeah. ask wayne
<ddd> and michal
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: he doesn't say you _must_ use waterfall or agile or whatever, for example.
<drbrain> ddd: O_O_O
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: true dat
<drbrain> I don't have enough eyes
<ddd> hehe
<yorickpeterse> drbrain: you'd be an alien
<drbrain> or a mutant
<apeiros_> does twitter forget that you follow some people?
<yorickpeterse> or just weird
<ddd> Mars boy
<drbrain> apeiros_: yup
<ddd> apeiros_: yes
<apeiros_> wow
<drbrain> it's probably a scaling technique
<yorickpeterse> It's a feature
<apeiros_> so this wasn't just me getting old…
<bluepojo> rarr webscale
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<apeiros_> repeatedly had the "hu? didn't I follow that guy already?"
<apeiros_> annoying "feature"
<apeiros_> microsoftian type of feature…
<yorickpeterse> headius: something totally unrelated, who do I have to bribe in order to get Ripper support in jruby?
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<ddd> apeiros_: backscale my tweets a few months and you'll see i've bitched about that little 'feature' a few times
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: iirc it's already there
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: nope, it throws an error if you require it
<ddd> whitequark: no. ripper library is not supported under jruby
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<whitequark> ddd, yorickpeterse: but it's there along with tests: http://rxr.whitequark.org/jruby/search?filestring=&string=ripper
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<ddd> Building YARD (yri) index for dtf-0.4.1...
<ddd> the `ripper' lib is not supported on JRuby
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<whitequark> ah, right, require 'ripper.so'.
<drbrain> I get "the `ripper' lib is not supported on JRuby" with 1.7.0
<ddd> and 1.7.1
<drbrain> no exception
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<yorickpeterse> Hm, it did show a stacktrace and bail out for me
<yorickpeterse> let me re-verify
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: those tests are probably copied from stdlib
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<headius> yorickpeterse: enebo
<headius> send beer
<yorickpeterse> https://github.com/enebo this one?
<headius> and the one in this channel, yes
<yorickpeterse> oh boy, deadrat
<yorickpeterse> that's going to be a lot of beer
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<headius> bbl
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<enebo> heh
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<enebo> yorickpeterse: I plan on hacking no my start of ripper next week again
<enebo> yorickpeterse: I have the grammar ported and I need to incorporate lexer next
<yorickpeterse> That would be wonderful as it would save me the hassle of having to convert jruby-parser's AST to what I need
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<enebo> yorickpeterse: The real challenge is we have a single lexer for 1.8/1.9 and I also want those ripper changes to work as well
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: I've probably asked this before, but: Y U NO RUBY_PARSER?
<enebo> but I can probably subclass our lexer :)
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: column numbers
<yorickpeterse> and my experience with mr zenspider hasn't exactly been stellar. I don't like to write code that depends on people that somehow don't get along with me
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: ah. right. I'm going to hack that in _someday_, but it's quite hard.
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<yorickpeterse> I don't like Ripper but comparing it to the rest it's the best for my specific use case
<drbrain> yorickpeterse: how do you use ripper? I have a hard time trusting it because it returns invalid results for syntax errors:
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<drbrain> ruby20 -rpp -rripper -e 'pp Ripper.sexp("1 plus 1 equals 2")'
<enebo> jruby used to have it in our ordinary AST but it was a lot of extra object creation and we put our AST on a diet
<yorickpeterse> drbrain: I'm using it for my linter atm, though I at some point (if needed) want to either switch to something generic or support the various platform specific parsers
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<llaskin1> any suggestions how to rescue an error that says "/var/lib/jenkins/.rvm/rubies/ruby-1.8.7-p371/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:560:in `initialize': Connection refused - connect(2) (Errno::ECONNREFUSED) " I tried rescue Errno::ECONREFUSED
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<drbrain> llaskin1: you need more Ns
<yorickpeterse> llaskin1: by using the right connection details
<yorickpeterse> enebo: so I've read
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: I'm going to fork ruby_parser and convert it to Ragel, adding column numbers along with cleaning the code overall
* yorickpeterse has to start buying lots of beer
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: wanna participate in that?
<whitequark> next week if nothing crtitical happens
<yorickpeterse> drbrain: Ripper does have an on_parse_error callback method but I haven't looked into it that much
<drbrain> yorickpeterse: I'll put that in the back of my head for when I drop 1.8 support in RDoc
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: Yes, although I'm not entirely sure how much time I can fit in it
<llaskin1> yorickpeterse: funny, this uses the same connection details as a myriad of a number of files
<llaskin1> they work fine
<yorickpeterse> drbrain: eh?
<llaskin1> and drbrain its rescued as " rescue Errno::ECONNREFUSED" in the code...
<drbrain> yorickpeterse: rdoc uses a modified irb parser since Ripper isn't available on ruby 1.8
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<drbrain> I don't have the time to fix parse bugs in two different parsers
<drbrain> also, by that point, maybe enebo will finish JRuby support of it
<yorickpeterse> drbrain: aah
* enebo knocks on wood
<llaskin1> yorickpeterse: any other suggestions?
<yorickpeterse> llaskin1: Not without a pastie of the code
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: I'm going to backport the Ragel itself and probably some code cleaning to the upstream, but also I'm going to change AST to be more sane and less parsetree'y, which probably won't get upstreamed any time soon.
<whitequark> *Ragel lexer itself
<drbrain> enebo: I'm not exactly excited about switching parsers, so I'm sure there's plenty of time :D
<enebo> drbrain: It does give me more motivation though beyond yorickpeterse and a couple of other people asking for ripper support
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: eg why the flying f does RP substitute 0 for empty (arglist) node if there's no arguments in a block?! I've no idea
<yorickpeterse> eh?
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: sec
<llaskin1> i literally ran the same code twice in a row, and it works the 2nd time
<llaskin1> wierd
<llaskin1> so how can I rescue that error?
<llaskin1> is there any way?
<llaskin1> it seems to happen when I have 10 different connections trying at once(jenkins running a bunch of selenium tests)
<yorickpeterse> Rescuing the specific error should work in theory
<llaskin1> right so I put rescue's as I described above...
<llaskin1> but it seemed to breeze right by
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: http://pastie.org/5522393
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: zero is special-cased in the parser (node = 0 if node == s(:args)), god knows why
<llaskin1> aha i got it yorick
<yorickpeterse> Oh I thought you were talking abour Ripper for a sec
<yorickpeterse> what the hell, that doesn't make any sense
<whitequark> exactly
<yorickpeterse> even just nil would be better
<whitequark> RP also has a nasty habit of doing some optimizations by itself
<whitequark> e.g. def a; "foo"; 1; end won't have (lit "foo") in the AST
<whitequark> or +1 is translated to (lit 1), without the +
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<whitequark> it's justified by the fact that MRI does that, but I do not see that as a correct behavior for a parser
<yorickpeterse> what the fuck
<yorickpeterse> tbh I don't agree with some of the node names either
<yorickpeterse> Some of them were way too generic (e.g. lit)
<whitequark> yeah, I convert lit nodes to more specific ones
<whitequark> you see, RP is a very distant derivative of MRI parser, so I can see how this happened
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<whitequark> but I'm going to push for the change to make AST more sane and usable
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<whitequark> I hope that'll someday become RP 4
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<yorickpeterse> well shit, I think I just finished converting my parser to the new AST of Furnac
<yorickpeterse> * Furnace
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: nice!
<yorickpeterse> of course it fails on stdlib
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<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse: what's furnace
<yorickpeterse> banisterfiend: https://github.com/whitequark/furnace/
<yorickpeterse> also hrmpf, I forgot a few rather critical keywords such as defined? and super
<whitequark> banisterfiend: http://whitequark.github.com/furnace/
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: I'm thinking about adding to_a to AST::Node which would return its children
<whitequark> what do you think/
<whitequark> *?
<andrewvos> Spaceghost|cloud: I'm just joking man. Not that I'm classy or anything, but meh.
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: what's the difference between that and AST::Node#children? Does it convert everything to an array?
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: could allow you to do "name, superclass, body = *class_node"
<yorickpeterse> hmm
<whitequark> and, what's more interesting
<whitequark> allows you to do nested multiple assignment
<yorickpeterse> oh?
<banisterfiend> whitequark: so what kind of thin could i use furnace for?
<whitequark> "receiver, method, (first_arg, *rest_args) = call_node"
<banisterfiend> thing
<yorickpeterse> banisterfiend: for me it takes away some of the boilerplate needed for defining node classes and such
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: that would be rather neat actually
<whitequark> banisterfiend: currently, anything which works with ASTs
<whitequark> furnace is a library and a collection of patterns you could use to write readable, efficient code
<whitequark> I'm planning to add SSA primitives to it very soon, which will enable you to write optimizing compilers in Ruby
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: one gripe I have is that #inspect's indentation is a bit off sometime
<yorickpeterse> * sometimes
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: I hate #inspect. I rewrote it at least three times and it still sucks
<yorickpeterse> heh
<yorickpeterse> I had to hack up Bacon's error formatting to make it more readable for it
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: if you can fix it I'd be very grateful
<whitequark> or even suggest how to do that
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<yorickpeterse> I was thinking of something like this http://pastie.org/pastes/5522500/text
<yorickpeterse> it's verbose but readable
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: "name"? what's that
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<yorickpeterse> oh just something random
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<yorickpeterse> it's supposed to be the child content of the node
<yorickpeterse> s(:string 'Hello') would've been a better example
<whitequark> I think that'd be a bad idea, and let me show why
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: http://pastie.org/5522511
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<whitequark> it's already very verbose as it is, and applying your change would explode the amount of sexps
<yorickpeterse> true
<whitequark> even with pure ruby_parser ASTs it won't be readable on large files
<whitequark> with the giant (call) chains
<yorickpeterse> tbh the only time I care about the verbose output is when comparing expected/got output in my specs
<yorickpeterse> right now it's do-able because of my hack but it's still a bit messy
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: I'm not opposing to adding this as an option, but under a different name than #inspect
<whitequark> #stable_inspect ? #test_inspect ?
<whitequark> #verbose_inspect maybe
<yorickpeterse> #pretty_print?
<yorickpeterse> Not sure if that would mess up pp though
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: it will afaik
<whitequark> both that and #pretty_inspect
<yorickpeterse> what about inspect(:verbose => true)
<yorickpeterse> then again that's not much better than a separate method
<drbrain> pp calls #pretty_print and defines pp and pretty_inspect
<ReinH> changing the method signature of a core ruby method = bad idea
<whitequark> ReinH: it's done in a backwards compatible way
<ReinH> no, it isn't
<whitequark> inspect doesn't take any arguments by default, therefore a conforming caller won't pass any
<whitequark> problems?
<ReinH> if you pass the option argument to anything other than your monkey punched inspect it will barf
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<ReinH> changing method signatures in subclasses in generall is a no-no
<ReinH> it's a basic OO design principle
<ReinH> as it violates LSP and probably a bunch of other stuff I can't think of
<yorickpeterse> ReinH: the particular class we're talking about does not extend anything
<whitequark> ReinH: again, LSP still stands here
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: he means it extends Object
<ReinH> it extends object
<ReinH> which has inspect
<ReinH> whitequark: no, it doesn't
<whitequark> ReinH: you can still call #inspect(), as you would call it on Object
<ReinH> but you can't call `inspect verbose: true` on anything else
<ReinH> so it no longer duck types
<ReinH> so you've broken LSP
<whitequark> you can substitute the base class for the derived one, which is what LSP says
<whitequark> and it will still work correctly
<ReinH> no, you can't
<whitequark> sigh
<yorickpeterse> Side question: why would I call `String.inspect :verbose => true`?
<ReinH> I can't believe we're arguing about this
<yorickpeterse> it's something specific to class X
<ReinH> changing method signatures in subclasses is a bad idea
<ReinH> this is not a crazy thing to suggest
<yorickpeterse> ReinH: 1. you started it :) 2. I'm just throwing out ideas as they pop up in my head
<yorickpeterse> it's this thing called "brainstorming"
<yorickpeterse> usually crazy ideas arise from that
<yorickpeterse> especially at 00:25
<whitequark> ReinH: http://pastie.org/5522537
<whitequark> note that I don't think that this is a good API at all in this case
<ReinH> whitequark: that's not the problem
<whitequark> but it does not violate LSP
<whitequark> that's all I am saying
<ReinH> the problem is `Object.new.inspect verbose: true`
<whitequark> ReinH: LSP does not require that to work.
<ReinH> whitequark: that's true
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<ReinH> it's still a smel
<ReinH> l
<whitequark> ReinH: I agree
<whitequark> so let's ditch that and move on, pls?
<ReinH> ok
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: what about #diffable_inspect?
<whitequark> I like it most
<yorickpeterse> too long, implies it contains diff formatting
<whitequark> er
<whitequark> it contains formatting which is supposed to be fed to diff
<whitequark> which is the case
<yorickpeterse> I mean stuff like the line prefixes (+, -, @@, etc)
<whitequark> and yes it's long, but that's a feature. I do not expect for that to be called often
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: yeah, but "diffable" does not imply that, does it?
<whitequark> it's like "making binary file diffable" which means converting it to some text form
<yorickpeterse> Not directly, but I personally would think it would contain some kind of "markup
<yorickpeterse> * related to it
<whitequark> strange
<yorickpeterse> I should probably go to bed though, can't think very clearly atm
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<whitequark> 3:30AM here...
<yorickpeterse> heh
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<yorickpeterse> right, I'm off. laters
<jcr> i am trying to finish a python wrapper around octopress which needs rvm to initialize for the rakefile
<jcr> if I use the python script from inside the octopress dir it works but not outside of the dir
<jcr> how can i get python to initilaize rvm and/or the rakefile
<ddd> see rvm.io under the scripting section and figure out how to make python launch a shell session. its written in bash, so however python manages to create shell sessions is what you'll have to do.
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<jcr> ddd: thanks
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