<rjeffries>
Those three projects had the goal of radical open-ness. For OpenMoko and Ben Nanonote, very VERY few dogs ate the (delicious...) dog food. Can Neo900 change this dynamic? One hopes so...
<rjeffries>
What does this progression of projects tell us, if anything: OpenMoko, Ben Nanonote, Neo900?
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (usb c) they still don't show what it'll look like. seems that they don't know themselves. so i'd treat all that as vapourware so far. it's design goals, not a design.
<rjeffries>
of course. I suspect you may get to N=1,000
<rjeffries>
ok. all in good time. I think 1GB RAM will be very VERY sweet
<rjeffries>
does it look like 1 GB RAM will be feasible?
<rjeffries>
if they can get Maemo woring more or less that's pretty sweet
<rjeffries>
my image of Neo900 is it is a pocket computer tha happens to also support a phone and mobile data LTE or HSPA and has a middling camet=ra as well
<rjeffries>
and does not piss in too many different directions.. LOL
<rjeffries>
let's hope a serious community forms
<rjeffries>
what is current state of software? sorry, I have not been following your project
<rjeffries>
hope keyboard feel is not too bad...
<rjeffries>
I see. Had no idea...
<rjeffries>
Did Nokia keep a warehouse of them or some such
<rjeffries>
when do you exhaust supply of Nokia cases and keyboards
<rjeffries>
ok
<rjeffries>
I am not a music guy. think more of NPR-ish (apiratioal) podcasts
<rjeffries>
yeah that would be great. but a way to have two lavalier mics one for interview subject, one for interviewer, recorded on seperate tracks...
<rjeffries>
fair enough. on e thinks of a use case as a nice portable recording kit. using Audacity maybe
<rjeffries>
somebody on your project must be a serious audio nut
<rjeffries>
SPI woudl be handy however
<rjeffries>
ok, not a biggie. re RS232
<rjeffries>
my thought is your design could incorportae the BT chip wpwrak has selected.
<rjeffries>
I really like how the project exposes several useful interfaces, including I2C and RS232. any chance you might expose SPI also
<rjeffries>
DocScrutinizer05 specs for your Neo900 are impressive. the work wpwrak is doing with BTLE might benefit your project.
<rjeffries>
and calms the mind
<rjeffries>
wonders if maybe DRINKING alcohol when making PCBs using laser printer is also effective?
<rjeffries>
understood. silly me, focusing on what might create buzz. Bitcoin anything is so shiny
<rjeffries>
wpwrak when you launch anelok on Indiegogo or similar place, maybe a "stretch" goal at significant extra funding could be a Bitcoin wallet? May be too demanding of CPU etc however...
<rjeffries>
bummer that sharism.cc domain evaporated. but maybe it doesn't matter? qi-hardware.com is used more methinks.
2013-12-04
<DocScrutinizer05>
rjeffries: I said "yes, you need more area than a micro-USB or similar tiny connector needs, so you get magnets of sufficient strength. But that's irrelevant since devices have enough free surface to attach a 20*5mm magnetic contact there. And divices that are smaller than 20*5mm won't have a micro-USB anyway". wpwrak answered "no, 20*5mm is a KO criterion for that idea since OEM want to build small devices"
<rjeffries>
wpwrak ha dnot heard that Henry Ford story. Love it!
<rjeffries>
magnetic connectors are a cool idea. I misunderstood (maybe) that you disapprove of microUSB. anyway, enough elctrons have been consumed.
<rjeffries>
am I mistaken? maybe Neo900 does use microUSB? if so, my apologies
<rjeffries>
Neo900 was not designed in an era when thin and light was the gold standard. and that's OK.
<rjeffries>
all cables are shit
<roh>
rjeffries: maybe the connector is nice, but the cables are shit.
<rjeffries>
Neo900 is a cool device. It really is!
<rjeffries>
DocScrutinizer05 bless you sir, we understand that Neo900 is not designed as a thin and light device. many (almost all) current high-volume handsets are. so to each his or her own. compavt connectors are indeed a thing. ;)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak my perspective is not "what wpwrak has in his lab such as dev boards etc." but how many GAZILLION "things" in teh world use microUSB. It is a non-trivial delta with several zeros after the leading "1"
<rjeffries>
Apple also has THE best power connector on their laptops, by a few kilometers
<rjeffries>
yes Apple's Lightening is sweet connector. Too bad it is not opne...
<rjeffries>
smartphone unit volume totally swamps any other use case by factor of what ? 1000 or 1,000,000 get serious. LOL
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (more cycles) at least that's what the spec says. i kinda wonder how they reach that conclusion, though :)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak microUSB is FAR more common than miniUSB. Another factoid: microUSB allows far more plug/unplug cycles
<rjeffries>
Will Neo900 support bluetooth? ideally, BTLE...
<rjeffries>
wpwrak maybe your work on bluetooth (when/IF it happens) might be leveraged by the Neo900 team? Evidently that product will not include wi-fi (it seems)
2013-12-02
<qi-bot>
rjeffries meant: "What an evil person you are, wpwrak. I like it."
<rjeffries>
s/perosn/person/
<rjeffries>
What an evil perosn you are, wpwrak. I like it.
<rjeffries>
wpwrak are you suggesting a strategy where a clever troll of Slashdot might (significantly!) help Neo900.
<rjeffries>
Neo900 is a fascinating experiment testing appeal of FOSS/open [at a price premium] vs. features. May the Force be with them!
<dos1>
rjeffries: it's hard to tell right now, but I guess it may be 100-200 EUR less
<rjeffries>
So if Neo900 does get 1,000 preorders (seems plausible) what will the unit price be?
<rjeffries>
viric yeah prolly run by a certain USA agency that specializes in gathering data. lol
<viric>
rjeffries: another mitm service?
<rjeffries>
fyi I am experimenting with IRCCloud 9beta) it is a persistent IRC connection in a browser. (I use Chrome) sorta kinda cool.
<qi-bot>
rjeffries meant: "DocScrutinizer05 on Neo900 do you support USB OTG maybe?"
<rjeffries>
s/UTG/OTG/
<rjeffries>
DocScrutinizer05 on Neo900 do you support USB UTG maybe?
<rjeffries>
Jolla and Neo900 need not represent a zero sum game
<rjeffries>
the other half -- got it
<rjeffries>
?? TOH ??
<rjeffries>
I hope Neo900 does well.
<rjeffries>
a power connection is also cool. think extra backs with extra battery capacity e.g.
<rjeffries>
I appreciate the idea of a handset where third parties can add a hardwar eback with extra functionality
<rjeffries>
My reading is that the innovative bit is teh I2C and power connector. The NFC thing for themes is a yawner (to me)
<DocScrutinizer05>
rjeffries: ^^^
<rjeffries>
DocScrutinizer05 have you and your team looked at what Jolla is doing, one assumes? They have some cool ideas.
<rjeffries>
wikireader was a kinda/sorta interesting concept. Used an Epson MCU if memory serves. And a FORTH based OS?
<rjeffries>
what did hapen to wikireader?
2013-12-01
<rjeffries>
did anyone ever figure out what happened to the stock of approx. 1,100 new, in the box Ben Nanonotes that were unsold when Wolfspraul closed down his shop? I guess they went to a landfill?
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: yes, didn't venture into this yet. right now, i'm playing mainly with the case
<rjeffries>
wpwrak is your software far enough along to get some idea of battery life? I suspect this question is premature.
<rjeffries>
wolfspraul are you living in USA these days? Happy Thanksgiving ( a few days late)
<rjeffries>
trying out this new irccloud.com (beta) system.
2013-10-24
<rjeffries>
it is obvious that Sharism the business has failed. Not sure why that fact has not been acknowledged. In any case, maybe teh assets were siezed. It happens.
<rjeffries>
thanks xiangfu for info that wolfgang aka wolfspraul still has a stash of Ben Nanonotes. He is a mystery man. Maybe the NSA bought remaining stock. It is a secure device. ;)
<xiangfu>
rjeffries: wolfgang. :)
<rjeffries>
roh not me, but there must be an opportunity if they have not already been shredded
<roh>
rjeffries: wanna buy em bulk?
<rjeffries>
xiangfu do you know who has control of remaining n=1000 (approx) Ben Nanonotes? where are they?
2013-10-12
<rjeffries>
Not saying this password etc storing service is A Good Thing. But it's mildly interesting. https://www.clipperz.com/
2013-10-09
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: naw, i'd try to avoid such weird magnifying tricks. just use a readable font ;)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak: I still hope when you refine user interface you consider displaying a larger image of the currently selected character something like 2x or 3x magnification of current character would so totally rock.
<rjeffries>
wpwrak is it fair to assume that anelok is independent of OS on the target PC that interacts with the internet? in other words it is simply a USB device that presents a (I think?) HID USB to teh host, be that Linux or Windows or (of interest to me) Chromeos?
<rjeffries>
wpwrak: agreed.
<rjeffries>
you have something against crowdfunding?
<rjeffries>
round and round it goes. where it stops, nobody knows. Indiegogo?
<rjeffries>
I see one needs to include a trailing space to avoid expanding embedded substring
<qi-bot>
rjeffries meant: "by the way your current industrial design is rather nice. You've tapped yourr inner Jonny Ives."
<rjeffries>
s/you/your/
<rjeffries>
by the way you current industrial design is rather nice. You've tapped your inner Jonny Ives.
<rjeffries>
you already sold qty = 2
<rjeffries>
wpwrak: there *is* a market for your gadget. lol
<rjeffries>
wpwrak: cool. useful.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: yup. it the idea is that it can propose passwords
<rjeffries>
wpwrak will anelok generate passwords? I forget the specs. ;)
<rjeffries>
agree that totally random longish passwords are good. also impossible to memorize
<kyak>
rjeffries: these were dictionary words, that's the root cause if i read correct
<rjeffries>
kyak did you read the damn article? very (!) long passphrases that have been partially onfusicated and are way way off teh beaten path are vulnerable.
<rjeffries>
He's only 7 hour drive from here, give or take.
<rjeffries>
wolfspraul now in San Diego, CA. Cool!
<rjeffries>
wpwrak your stuff is already being backed up! LOL
<rjeffries>
wpwrak In the USA, we have an automatic, FREE backup system. The marketing name is "NSA"
<rjeffries>
I am now in approx the same class of idiots as, well, Adobe, to name yesterdays explample of security beingcompromised
<rjeffries>
wpwrak, no, Ilost it. end of story.
<rjeffries>
wpwrak great idea. but I think when teh lanyard is attached at corners, flipping would be much less likely
<rjeffries>
you know what happened. or can guess.
<rjeffries>
why I need a hardware password safe: managing passwords is a total nightmare. I experimented with a little black book. being not totally crazy, what it held were reminders, not full passwords, rather cryptic and incomplete and in most cases did not explictly name the service. plus no personal identity of who I am
<rjeffries>
re Badger: cute how they made slots for clips on a lanyard. I think that's teh deal
<paul_boddie>
rjeffries: I'm sure people are all over it, but I'm not keeping track, unfortunately.
<rjeffries>
paul_boddie I'd assuem so. maybe before the death of the (I mean "our") sun
<paul_boddie>
rjeffries: I'm sure someone will port it to Debian and the other distros and it'll become available conveniently.
<qi-bot>
rjeffries meant: "note that wpwrak has great taste in these matters."
<rjeffries>
s/tehse/these/
<rjeffries>
note that wpwrak has great taste in tehse matters.
<rjeffries>
that cute badge reader would have been much better if they instead used one of the ARM Cortex M0+ chips, now available from multiple vendors.
<rjeffries>
paul_boddie at this late date, I'm mildly interested in Ben as a password safe if someone (not me, I am not that comotent) ports Linux version of Password Safe https://www.schneier.com/passsafe.html
<paul_boddie>
rjeffries: It would be interesting to know. They make nice and convenient experiment platforms.
<rjeffries>
does anyone know what happened with the remaining inventory of Ben Nanonote? If memory serves, there were approx. 1,200 in the warehouse when price was increased from $99 to $150.
<rjeffries>
wpwrak that's pretty much what I meant re Adafruit.
<rjeffries>
thinking about how to find BT chips one can buy... hmm... maybe places such as Seed Studio might (??) serve as a "distributor" ? or Adafruit? yada yada yada
<rjeffries>
idea for that USB adapter box: with a tiny extra bit of complication, it could also be used as a way get access to allow measuring power output of random USB micro B chargers. add two test points, and a switch
<rjeffries>
i guess you are not worried
<rjeffries>
what will usb keyboard impact be on anelok's tiny battery
<rjeffries>
I must have been asleep, did not recall usb keyboard can plug into anelok. sorr
<rjeffries>
trusted PC is an oxymoron. LOL
<rjeffries>
they are all small and power efficient. LOL
<rjeffries>
wpwrak not sure what "affordable" criteria is. those chips all have to be dirt cheap. so "can be purchased" is interesting. we want a merchant part. so it's really all about teh non-nda documentation I would guess
<rjeffries>
that's cool. n/p
<rjeffries>
wpwrak ok.
<rjeffries>
s/whiel/wheel
<rjeffries>
anelok note #3 anelok click whiel will be ok, but when I need to initially enter my laundry list of password (etc) content, it would be VERY nice to use a real keyboard. with 802.15.4 / BT "man in the middle" gadget when I have lots of data entry (at home, typically) it will be faster and more pleasant and would go a lot faster. Think credit card numbers, the phone number of your mistress(es?), stuff like that. LOL
<rjeffries>
anelok note #2 (future) Bluetooth keyboards or every imaginable size are easily available. a clever accessory for anelok might be a gadget that speaks bluetooth to/from BT keyboard, speaks 802.15.4 to anelok. see #3
<rjeffries>
anelok note #1 wondering what size (diameter) "split ring" will be a nice fit when attaching a lanyard? Something to check on first case proto. one does not want a tight fit IMO.
2013-09-20
<rjeffries>
compared with Raspberry Pi (which I own and use and like) Minnowboard has disk i/o SATA2 and Gigabit Ethernet. With Baytrail ATOM (coming later) CPU power will be much better tha n RasPi
<rjeffries>
whitequark: no there is a beta version for linux
<whitequark>
rjeffries: um, it's windows-only?
<rjeffries>
has anyone looked at porting http://passwordsafe.sourceforge.net/ to Ben Nanonote? That is way beyond my knowledge. But it's an interesting concept. Different than Werner's (cool) anelok gadget.
<rjeffries>
asked this on mail list, no response (I think)...
<rjeffries>
wpwrak: is first generation anelok device USB to laptop only (I think)? Then you may add an 802.15.4 radio + matching dongle for PC later?
<rjeffries>
whitequark: can you suggest some BT modules that might be candidates?
<rjeffries>
whitequark: that's useful to know! re BT technical documentation. BT chip cost must also be VERY (!) low these days. although high volume stuff is prolly buried in an SoC that also does e.g. wi-fi and more
<rjeffries>
I get it
<rjeffries>
wpwrak those are great questions, while you focus on USB (wisely) others including me can poke at BLE devices. Your requirment on open documentation may or may not be met, I dunno
<rjeffries>
is that true when power levels are REALLY low? physics is on our side. LOL but my point (for 2014 maybe) is MOBILE is the majority computing device now, period. one eventually want to solve password issue for tablets and smartphones
<rjeffries>
blue sky... NFC or Bluetooth Low Energy might be attractive to users, but may also be way outside teh scope of what you wish to attempt. that's fair.
<rjeffries>
a future possibly derivative product targeted squarely at mobile devices woudl have appeal. USB in that case may not be preferred connection between safe and mobile
<rjeffries>
you do not need complications at this stage. KISS rules. having said that...
<rjeffries>
I need to investigate (I am ignorant) how widely the popular mobile phones implement OTG, It's not a universal, I'm pretty sure. will look into this point.
<rjeffries>
wpwrak for the safe to work in conjunction with a mobile phone or tablet, that device must support (???) USB OTG that allows external keyboard?
<rjeffries>
(high) contrast is your friend in this use case. and this display will almost always be OFF so wear is unimportant IMO
<rjeffries>
which display did you choose, remind me pls
<rjeffries>
cool
<rjeffries>
Today is Sunday, in USA. Quiet.
<rjeffries>
IMO the 2nd option would be more useable. the extra size is worth having cursor keys. ymmv
<rjeffries>
wpwrak said yesterday: or the jog wheel, i have two options: a 22 mm wheel with rotation and a center button. or a 32 mm wheel with rotation, center button, and four "cursor keys"
2013-09-14
<rjeffries>
yup
<rjeffries>
we differ about where the demarc is, that's all. smile.
<rjeffries>
yes, but I am talking about a LOOSELY couple appraoch, all you have is YOUR UI, plus an API and serial port to outside devive. Be well
<rjeffries>
but this is all moot. Theoretical. Nice chatting, I do like your work, a LOT
<rjeffries>
the beauty of ALLOWING external interface is a million peopel can code for that platform that will never learn to sling FPGA gates
<rjeffries>
your in-built UI will be great, I am sure. but Users will want this and that and 19 other things.MIDI DMX WiFi Erhernet the mind boggles. video capture hardware (cheap but good...)
<rjeffries>
I won't mention specific products, but there are several off the shelf boards that could interface to Mixxeo over serial, then provide interfaces so an iPad ot Android tablet or a linux notebook or whatever can be used woth Mixxeo
<rjeffries>
I am well aware that you want to keep your project totally open, and it is. an API plus a protocol would allow your users to fairly easily add some VERY slick user interface stuff.
<rjeffries>
one way to go to avoid all would be you define a nice, clean API (you prolly already have). then use a REALLY simply protocol over serial between an external board and Mixxeo.
<rjeffries>
understood.
<rjeffries>
I apologize. this is the WRONG IRC. I'll check in oon your irc at some future point
<rjeffries>
That implies Ethernet caused issues on Milkymist (to my mind)
<rjeffries>
You are hard core. LOL It's OK, but you are REALLY minimalist.
<rjeffries>
Ethernet still in teh mix?
<rjeffries>
Thanks.
<rjeffries>
OK, but used (designe dto be used) for video out
<rjeffries>
How many UARTS of what speed did you design in, any free?
<rjeffries>
Totally different line of questioning, then I STFU: roughly how many LUTs does Mixxeo use?
<rjeffries>
I think your USB support is more robust than before, correct?
<rjeffries>
LOL I thought you might suggest I shove my MCU somehere teh sun doesn't shine. <g>
<rjeffries>
lekernel thanks for the info. am I correct to interpret it as saying in a polite way, "Mixxeo does not currently include SPI or I2c protocol support. But someone could do so."
<rjeffries>
lekernel (lazy question, have not RTFM) does Mixxeo (great name!) have SPI bus and or I2C available as a low cost way to OPTIONALLY loosely couple something else that's MCU based?
<rjeffries>
yes, I've been keeping an eye on your latest project. Looking good! I have not looked carefully at the specs however.
<rjeffries>
wpwrak Bunnie's project is not a Ben Nanonote alternative, agreed. His attempt at open hardware does not interest you, that's fine. It will be interesting to see whether a mainly open laptop--with clever bits like FPGA integration--can find enough buyers to make sense.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: btw, how's that illuminated walking stick coming along ? did you make it ?
<rjeffries>
Interesting set of design decisions. Those who do not want a blob can simply not use wifi. FPGA inclusion seems smart. Leveraging Raspberry Pi GPIO header is clever,
<rjeffries>
wolfspraul I seriously doubt there is anything about Greenarrays that will be of interest. the ISA is FORTH. Interesting, but sufficiently off the beaten path to be a "don't care" for whatever it is you are doing (which I do not yet grok).
<rjeffries>
the architecture of the Greenarray multi-core chip is (to me) interesting. I suspect they have a couple of 3-letter agencies that use the parallel chips in some obscure way.
<rjeffries>
wpwrak I was referring to per node. the 100nW is very competive, as you know
<rjeffries>
wolfspraul the chips from http://www.greenarraychips.com/ are real. They are not open design, it is a for-profit company.Impressive as example of extremely low energy chips.
2012-09-28
<rjeffries>
GNUtoo-desktop I am way way beyond my depth here. I do not know.
<GNUtoo-desktop>
rjeffries, really? I tough it was only test cases?
<rjeffries>
by the way, something much less than a replacment GPU driver could be of interest. if one can use some GPU respources that would be ok/fine
<rjeffries>
ok got it Lima is a free software graphics driver for the ARM Mali GPUs
<rjeffries>
what is Lima? I am not informed
<rjeffries>
if soemoen opnes the old GPU at some level, and suddenly academics have a cool tool to play with, heh, lots of PR goodness.
<rjeffries>
let's assume BRCM makes a net profit of $1 aper SOC they sell to Farnell/E14 (who manufacture RasPi)
<whitequark>
rjeffries: I doubt they will actively harm these efforts
<rjeffries>
my gut says that BRCM may look the other way. If their mainstream revenu bearing SOCs are sufficently differnt than what RasPi uses, then they could be (in a certain sense) "good guys" and let teh people working on reverse engineering (it IS hapopening as we speak) go forward. Zero harm commercially.
<paul_boddie>
I wouldn't know. Maybe rjeffries knows as he has a lot to say about the Raspberry Pi. ;-)
<rjeffries>
forced? no it has not forced anyone. Poeple liked the price and the idea and spent $35. BFD
<rjeffries>
that core must still be be able to be fabb'd
<whitequark>
rjeffries: remember the part I said about someone remaking an ARM core and getting sued?
<rjeffries>
there was an interesting hint yesterday soimewhare that people are making progress with opening up some nclosed aspects of that BRCM SOC. not sure if this is a dream or what. But given the marketing success of RasPi, I could see BRCM seeing more benefit than risk. that would be A Good Thging. Besides, the RasPOi is an older SOC. who cares?
<rjeffries>
whitequark as in marketing BS agree.
<whitequark>
rjeffries: as per Parallela, this is a project I would happily back.
<rjeffries>
somebody above just said they do
<whitequark>
rjeffries: AFAIK ARM does not prohibit open netbook design
<rjeffries>
those guys have a laser focus on floating point performance is my understanding
<rjeffries>
oh I was talking about open netbook designs that ARM prohibits. Intel does not have such a restriction to my knowledge
<whitequark>
rjeffries: ahhh, they don't design their own chip, they use Epiphany coprocessors
<rjeffries>
underastood. I do not expect that kickstarter project to be a success but the idea is interesting
<rjeffries>
greenarrays is an interesting exception. but thou shalt speak FORTH
<whitequark>
rjeffries: yeah, there were some experiments in the industry
<rjeffries>
that is an opportunity for Intel then, isn't it?
<rjeffries>
arm-netbook subscribed.
<whitequark>
rjeffries: 1) ARM license agreement explicitly forbids open-sourcing the design
<rjeffries>
i will check out arm-netbook list thanks!
<paul_boddie>
rjeffries: You can get cheap tablets now. Don't you read the arm-netbook list? When not discussing their EOMA-68 card project, which is most of the time these days because it's in super-secret factory mode, it's a parade of cheap tablet suggestions and "deal" Web site ordering experiences. And Q&A about people's recent purchases not working properly.
<rjeffries>
whitequark a tablet with a Bluetooth keyboard? No, but how ios that different vs a lappie
<whitequark>
rjeffries: I believe that just won't work
<whitequark>
rjeffries: ever tried programming on a tablet?
<rjeffries>
what the world needs is a $100 Linux tablet that is as open as practical. May not meet Peter's criteria, but in-built display would be a Good Thing. BT keyboard is fine. needs wi8fi. whoops, there we go, not totally open hardwrae.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (iendian) now you can complain about the ben being expensive ;-)
<rjeffries>
paul_brodie as Brits might say "Spot on."
<rjeffries>
Ballonboard looks interetsing. do we have any idea about price?
<rjeffries>
whietquark as you know well, Beaglebone does not have a display system. But nice try with apples/oranges. LOL
<rjeffries>
wpwrak I like that idea. I sthat what wolfspraul i sup to these days? it see,s his interest in Milkymist and Ben have flatlined
<whitequark>
rjeffries: there _are_ better platforms. OK, for 2x the cost (BeagleBone). I don't see this as a problem, sorry.
<rjeffries>
BRING IT ON. Make it happen, run it up the flagpole. I will salute. ;)
<whitequark>
rjeffries: the fact that it's basically owned by Broadcom
<rjeffries>
before I go on mute, consider: what is to prevent Raspberry Pi Foundation or someone else from designing a next system that meets Peter's objections?
<whitequark>
rjeffries: incorrect
<rjeffries>
Arduino is also sucessfull and also uses poroprietary chip. AVR is not open.
<rjeffries>
dislike
<rjeffries>
but you also displie Arduino. LOL
<rjeffries>
I think there will be a B RISK business in the Gertboard.
<whitequark>
rjeffries: arduino is really really hard to kill
<rjeffries>
whitequark I understand the issues. and thye best point you made is that it would have been inexpensive to make the i/i interfacing safer. Point well taken.
<whitequark>
rjeffries: it's quite hard to use I2C, SPI and GPIOs on RPis without frying it immediately
<rjeffries>
whitequark I think interfacing with I2C SPI and GPIO on a CHEAP platform that runs Debian is uiseful and a lot of people will learn.
<rjeffries>
If ARM is teh enemy, then the enemy won this war a long time ago
<whitequark>
rjeffries: like python and debian?
<rjeffries>
whitequark RasPi offers a LOT of computing power at a low price. It has internet connectivity, unlike Ben NN. it is a great platofrm for individuals to learn stuff they will not learn using a PC
<whitequark>
rjeffries: but one can make a MIPS softcore without risking being sued
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: in the free market, everyone competes against everyone. so of course the rpi is a threat in that sense :)
<rjeffries>
in any case, I have said more than enough. Move along pople, nothing to see here. Nevermidn that Ben NN used an SOC that was not open. ;)
<whitequark>
rjeffries: can you say which exact problem RPi solves?
<rjeffries>
Raspberry Pi si not a problem. It is an opportunity. RNOBODY and I mean not a single soul is required to purchase a RasPi.
<rjeffries>
RasPi is a decent environment for interfacing with snesors using SPI and I2C. aso is ASrduino, in a lower level way.
<rjeffries>
teh only solution is to convince US authorities that Raspberry Pi Foundation is a therat to national security. then send in the drones. Problem solved. LOL
<whitequark>
rjeffries: skip one $600 textbook purchase, suit a class with proper boards.
<rjeffries>
so? so that's an extra $5o per student.
<rjeffries>
whietquark your statement baffles me TOTALLY. wtf ar eyou talking about? LOL
<whitequark>
rjeffries: there are more open alternatives to Pi right now. Beagleboard can be perfectly used to teach Operating Systems course
<rjeffries>
whitequark I hope you can raise money and design the opne hardware alternative to Raspberry Pi. qi hardwrae was started for jsut such a dream
<whitequark>
rjeffries: you CANNOT teach designing an OS on an RPi.
<rjeffries>
whitequark so the fact that a university such as Cambridge can use a $35 compuer in a class on deigning an OS is bad somehow? LOL
<whitequark>
rjeffries: cubieboard suffers from exactly same problems
<rjeffries>
ANDF... I think we aree already seeing a wave of innovation where various peopel are designing realatively inexpensive ARM systems. I like that a lot. Cubbieboard looks pretty nice.
<rjeffries>
I do not think it was designed for that
<whitequark>
rjeffries: I don't see how it does any good for education in UK or even Russian schools
<whitequark>
rjeffries: well, I _could_ see how it is _supposed_ to solve absence of computers in poor countries, through the question of total cost of ownership and building infrastructure remains
<rjeffries>
so why why why do you dislike this sucessfull cheap system? who gives a damn? peopel who choose to buy it will do so.
<whitequark>
rjeffries: like any computer existing at this moment can run Linux and Python
<rjeffries>
guys RaspI was not designed to scratch teh embedded itch. but some will us eit that way. who cares?
<rjeffries>
if one wishes to use Python, it comes ready to go out of the box.
<rjeffries>
If I want to use softwar eor write software, it is ok/fine.
<rjeffries>
whitequark read the damn specs. RasPi is imperfect, has limited RAM and CPU. but it is VERY capable. twice the speed of Ben. 256MB as opposed to 32MB. Has Ethernet. Has great display hardware (that is I agree not open).
<rjeffries>
viric I am not sure there is anything wrong with that. This whole business remionds me of early days when I assembled an IMSAI kit computer in my college days.
<paul_boddie>
rjeffries: Is your point that the benefits of open hardware don't matter if it's cheap enough? Something like, "Oh that chipset won't work with anything recent, but they only cost $30, so off to the recycling centre they go!"
<rjeffries>
Will someone else do somethingt better, more open? Prolly will.
<rjeffries>
paul_bodie the reason RasPi is getting all the heat is it is selling in mass quantities. Could it have been done better? YES.
<whitequark>
rjeffries: if you think that my remarks are not relevant, they won't make any "harm" to RPi; otherwise, I don't understand what your comments about "attacking" are about
<rjeffries>
I do not think attacking RasPi serves a purpose. It exists, it is selling. There is a vibrant (!!) ecosystem forming aroudn it. All using Debian.
<whitequark>
rjeffries: Arduino is significantly overrated in the sense that people are trying to put it everywhere, even where a much more efficient solution exists.
<rjeffries>
if memory serves, you and others also think Arduino is a POS. <smile>
<rjeffries>
whitequark I think that point is not relevant. RasPi was not intended as an excercise in open hardware. It is simply a to9ol that allows millions of people to learn programming and also experiment with physical computing in a high-level OS rather than using Arduino
<rjeffries>
whietquark teh answer is for qi hardwrae or some other entity to build the coimputer of your dreams.
<whitequark>
rjeffries: keep in mind that Samsung has made a production device (Galaxy S II) which is more open than a educational device (RPi)