07:20 <luke-jr> xiangfu: hi, I was curious: do people in China typically like communism, or see it as a bad thing?

10:14 <kyak> luke-jr: i wouldn't take it away from xiangfu, but think about it. There are 1.3+ bln. people in China, and even if xiangfu knows opinions of 100.000 people, that's smaller than one percent of one percent.

10:14 <kyak> Moreover, there is a "survivor trap". One person probably mostly communicats and knows opinions of people that are of his kind

10:15 <kyak> hence the "wtf, i didn't vote Mr. X, and nobody else i know did. How the hell did he win? This is all a lie!"

11:23 <DocScrutinizer05> also which answers do you expect to get past the great chinese firewall? ;-P

11:25 <whitequark> "communicats", is that about Party cats

11:25 <DocScrutinizer05> I wouldn't ask questions like "what do you think of (Putin|Erdogan|communism)" to anybody I was able to figure who they actually are

11:26 <DocScrutinizer05> unless they are not fist hand involved or emigrated ultimately

11:26 <DocScrutinizer05> first* hand

11:28 <DocScrutinizer05> In Turkey it takes less to lose your job and possibly do an undetermined time in jail

11:29 <DocScrutinizer05> in Russia you might get in a list of persons eventually to get assassinated. And no idea about china

11:31 <DocScrutinizer05> as far as I could tell, in China you don't notice much of communism as long as you don't utter notions about communism

11:32 <whitequark> your opinion of russia is completely divorced from reality

11:32 <DocScrutinizer05> don't know

11:33 <whitequark> journalists, yes. moles, yes. people with significant resources grabbing political power, yes

11:33 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly it takes more than a mere IRC chat in Russia to "appear on the radar"

11:33 <whitequark> otherwise you can do all the futile criticism you want

11:33 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, as long as nobody takes notice :-)

11:33 <whitequark> even Navalny is still comparatively unhindered, except for censorship and all the fake judges

11:33 <DocScrutinizer05> just in line with "if elections could change things, they were illegal"

11:33 <whitequark> but he's alive and fairly vocal

11:34 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:

11:34 <DocScrutinizer05> I had put it slightly exaggerated to make a point

11:34 <whitequark> this really just follows from the state being based on kleptocracy and not an ideology

11:35 <whitequark> you don't win anything by murdering opponents that are already neutered

11:37 <DocScrutinizer05> though in Turkey pedestrians walking by a demo of fired teachers ("support of terrorism" since they signed a protest note) don't dare to stop and talk to any of the 100some demonstrators, they are scared they might get on a watch list as well

11:37 <whitequark> Turkey is quite different

11:37 <DocScrutinizer05> yep

11:37 <whitequark> they don't do IMSI catchers in RU too (yet, I think)

11:37 <DocScrutinizer05> not needed

11:37 <whitequark> well, not widely and not publicly, at least. I take precaustions nevertheless

11:38 <DocScrutinizer05> Putin is 'smart', Erdogan is a jackass

11:39 <whitequark> I don't think anyone considers Putin dumb or incompetent

11:39 <DocScrutinizer05> for sure not

11:40 <DocScrutinizer05> and don't get me started about that US idiot

11:41 <DocScrutinizer05> "alternative facts" was briliant though

11:41 <whitequark> yes, I would like to avoid getting you started about that :P

11:41 <DocScrutinizer05> Orwell quality

11:44 <DocScrutinizer05> though Putin achieved exactly the same, don't know how: a female Putin 'lover' interviewed uttered sth like "I don't care if $(fact X is true or not), I just believe Putin"

11:45 <whitequark> what on earth are you talking about

11:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm talking about post-facts age

11:46 <DocScrutinizer05> no matter what Leader X tells, you just have to *believe* in it and all will be fine. If it's true or not is explicitly not a thing to worry about

11:47 <whitequark> well that's not exactly new is it

11:47 <whitequark> just propaganda

11:48 <DocScrutinizer05> alas spreads like black plague recently

11:48 <whitequark> oh you'll love that South Korea story

11:48 <whitequark> the Park Geun-hye case is *nuts*

11:49 <whitequark> like Trump has nothing on it

11:49 <whitequark> let me find you a good summary

11:50 <whitequark> the english media gives you some stupid condensed shit that's nowhere near showing the depths of depravity

11:50 <whitequark> I had a good article from a korean...

11:52 <DocScrutinizer05> bbl

11:52 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: ah yes, this one: https://askakorean.blogspot.hk/2016/10/the-irrational-downfall-of-park-geun-hye.html

13:46 <wpwrak> (communicats) it's about cats who believe in the ethical superiority of forcibly sharing the food of others ;-)

13:57 <larsc> wasn't there a Disney movie about this?

14:32 <kyak> communicats: http://img02.deviantart.net/ce01/i/2005/083/d/9/__communism___by_cat_cat.jpg

14:35 <kyak> all cats are communists, anyways.. They get what they need, and do what they are able to do :)

14:36 <wpwrak> they're populists: everybody loves them, and they get away with whatever

18:49 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, I punished mine with a water gun when she for example jumped onto the table. Worked really well, she didn't do it twice

18:49 <DocScrutinizer05> so much for "get away with whatever"

18:51 <DocScrutinizer05> and once when she went mad, I locked her in the 3m^2 toilet for an hour or two, which calmed her down quite noticeably

18:52 <DocScrutinizer05> weird enough she loved me most of all 4 family humans, maybe _because_ of that clear treatment