DocScrutinizer05 changed the topic of #qi-hardware to: Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware
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<sb0> whitequark, where did you get your vacuum gear from?
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<whitequark> lvtcshop on ebay
<whitequark> $110 for gear and $85 for delivery approx
<whitequark> sb0: ^
<sb0> the pump?!
<sb0> just the clamps and pipes, right?
<whitequark> yeah
<whitequark> the pump was about $250 in RU
<whitequark> and almost free delivery
<whitequark> turbo pump that is. rough is another $100
<sb0> where did you find those?
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<whitequark> chipmaker.ru, avito.ru. local craigslist-like things
<sb0> which one exactly?
<whitequark> turbo pump from chipmaker, rough from avito
<whitequark> rough you can find on ebay just as well, there are plenty of these noname pumps there
<whitequark> it's an air conditioning pump basically
<sb0> yeah but all I find on ebay for roughing pumps is $400 min.
<whitequark> oh
<whitequark> lemme show you
<sb0> or it's bids, which I never win and piss me off
<whitequark> haha, I won another bid for a turbo pump (from working equipment) for $250 too
<whitequark> would have never thought that I do. also ext250hi
<whitequark> so now I have two
<sb0> and then shipping is another $600 ...
<whitequark> not really, ground was $12 and I used a remailer with a freight kinda option
<whitequark> so it offset me about $80
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<sb0> so it was a russian vendor?
<whitequark> no, continental US
<whitequark> the remailer airmails it to germany and then to russia, which takes about a month and somehow inexplicably much cheaper
<sb0> $1,850 + $305 shipping to HK
<sb0> fuckit
<whitequark> yeah, you need to look harder. set an alert and let it sit there for a few months
<sb0> well, the typical "good" one. most are like $6000
<whitequark> used, for $500
<sb0> no controller?
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<whitequark> controller you can get for $75 or so, if you're lucky
<whitequark> (mine from chipmaker was with controller as well)
<sb0> I'm *never* lucky on goddamed ebay, and I fucking hate it
<whitequark> get it while it's hot
<whitequark> exdc160, even. more powerful than mine
<whitequark> although you don't really need those 160 watts
<sb0> "Ships to: United States". so I need to ship it to a friend, who forwards it, etc.
<whitequark> yes
<whitequark> or remailer
<whitequark> if you want to win cheap auctions, that's the only way
<whitequark> my other wins include: active pirani gauge for $75, active inverted magnetron for $48
<sb0> also, "untested". isn't that synonymous for "broken" on ebay?
<whitequark> have you seen what's inside that controller? I have, I disassembled it
<whitequark> it's dumb as hell. it has six FETs and a bog-standard TI BLDC controller
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<whitequark> there's no way you're going to kill it, unless you're completely incompetent
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<sb0> still a pain to fix, especially if those FETs are obsolete or unsourceable for some other reason
<whitequark> typical IR FETs
<whitequark> and it's not really going to be broken, it's just, you see
<whitequark> if they say "working", they have to process warranty and/or returns
<whitequark> additionally not many people have the ability to test the gear
<whitequark> so maybe for other stuff, yes, but for vacuum untested usually means "I don't have the ability to test this and/or not want to bother"
<whitequark> since it lowers price 3-4x, I'm totally fine with it, because you can just buy another if it's broken :p
<whitequark> "tested" inverted magnetron gauges for $400
<whitequark> I could buy almost eight "untested" ones for that, obviously it makes economic sense
<sb0> what remailer did you use?
<whitequark> shopfans.ru
<whitequark> I think they would even send to non-RU, altough their process is tailored to RU. express delivery to the door, customs handling, etc
<whitequark> fairly cheap too
<sb0> I also wonder if those second-hand turbopumps could be contaminated with oil from the previous roughing pump
<whitequark> well, significant contamination will probably be visible
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<whitequark> worst case, you'll have to reassemble and clean it, which, contrary to what the pump vendor wants you to think, is completely doable
<whitequark> afaik people usually boil the internals in ether to remove oil
<whitequark> this is the rough pump I was referring to
<whitequark> although if your turbo pump has a drag stage, like edwards usually does, you don't need 2stage rotary vane
<whitequark> mine is 1-stage and that totally suffices. in fact anything under 500 Pa will do
<sb0> ah, I see, you got one for refrigeration stuff
<whitequark> $21 :p
<whitequark> yes
<sb0> you probably get a lot of oil backstreaming with that, though
<whitequark> do you mean like oil vapor?
<sb0> do you use the original oil, or did you replace it with something better?
<sb0> yeah
<whitequark> possibly. I will see it better when I get my gauges
<sb0> and I read that this oil vapor tends to stick to surfaces and create a mess in UHV
<whitequark> you generally have to bake the UHV equipment to remove water, this also helps with oil
<whitequark> not to mention turbo pumps can actually pump oil vapor quite efficiently
<whitequark> I used original oil, however before putting it in, I disassembled the pump and cleaned it
<sb0> yeah... but I heard other opinions (from physicists) about what happens to oil when baking
<whitequark> there were some oil-like residues inside which was green, smelly and muddy
<whitequark> as a bonus point I now know how a rotary vane pump looks inside :p
<sb0> so much of this stuff is in the US...
<whitequark> I'm sure you can find a rotary vane pump locally
<sb0> hmm, I'd rather try to find a scroll pump
<whitequark> they're bloody expensive
<whitequark> do you really need one?
<sb0> oil is messy
<whitequark> money is scarce
<sb0> especially in UHV
<sb0> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Busch-Fossa-18-F018-Scroll-Vacuum-Pump-/281395168490 not worse than the typical turbomolecular pump offer
<whitequark> try meeting your local scientists, sometimes the lab has an upgrade and they throw out old equipment en masse
<sb0> yeah, that's how I got my previous stuff already :)
<whitequark> I wouldn't pay $2k for a turbo pump :p
<whitequark> ooooo, my pirani gauge just arrived at the post office.
<whitequark> or maybe that was something else
<whitequark> crap, it was.
<whitequark> He said the repair on this unit cost $500-700. But he said its simple for someone who knows about these. Selling as-is thanks!
<whitequark> GOD BLESS!
<whitequark> not very inspiring
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<DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: what the heck are you doing? Vacuum, iverted magnetrons (whatever that is) :-o .oO(???)
<whitequark> inverted magnetron gauge, it's a vacuum gauge for under 10^-1 torr of pressure
<whitequark> it's not the same magnetron as in a microwave oven in that it's not self-oscillating (afaik)
<whitequark> the "magnetron" part comes from two strong magnets which confine any plasma that exists near them to a small ring region
<whitequark> the gauge works by lighting up the plasma and measuring the current that flows through it. the less current, the less pressure
<whitequark> between 10^1 and 10^-1 it's a pirani gauge. that one's simpler. you have a resistor bridge, one of which is inside the chamber
<whitequark> the less pressure there is, the less heat is convected/conducted by the gas
<whitequark> (tip: if you want to convert torr into something more manageable, apt-get install units)
<sb0> is that better than Bayard Alpert gauges?
<DocScrutinizer05> fine fine, but WHAT for do you need that stuff?
<whitequark> hot filament ionization? yes, definitely
<whitequark> ionization gauges tend to be fragile as heck with the glass enclosure, and generally you can get shit deposited on the filament
<DocScrutinizer05> related to your 5 bazillion Volt shortwave function generator?
<whitequark> by your process
<whitequark> with inverse magnetron, you can disassemble it and clean the anode with rubbing alcohol
<whitequark> (and it's generally less susceptible to drift from deposited crap)
<whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: yes, the function generator would be for a quadrupole mass spectrometer
<DocScrutinizer05> ahaaaaa mass spectro
<whitequark> but I want other things too, like plasma etching and thin film deposition
<DocScrutinizer05> now we're talking :-)
<whitequark> mass spectro is very useful for that!
<whitequark> how'd you control the process otherwise?
<DocScrutinizer05> nfc, never thought about it
<whitequark> well, that's how it's done in the industry :p
<DocScrutinizer05> except for "make a copper wire explode and enjoy the funny color deposits on all the stuff in vicinity"
<whitequark> thin film deposition I actually don't even need turbo pump for
<whitequark> let me show you this video
<DocScrutinizer05> funny that you mention gas flow cooling a resistor
<DocScrutinizer05> I just said about the same, in a completely different context, for determining wind speed
<whitequark> yep, it's also used in anemometers
<whitequark> very cheap, fairly reliable, somewhat precise
<whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Sic1DRXJI
<DocScrutinizer05> hehe, and included in Neo900
<DocScrutinizer05> since we got a hygrometer that has a 10,W internal heater and a 14bit thermometer built in
<DocScrutinizer05> 10mW
<whitequark> there's that eink tablet for outdoor enthusiasts
<whitequark> packed to the brim with sensors
<DocScrutinizer05> DUH!
<whitequark> earl
<DocScrutinizer05> link!!!
<DocScrutinizer05> ooh that one, think I heard about it already
<whitequark> I actually think I heard of it from you
<DocScrutinizer05> isn't earl a dog?
<whitequark> no clue
<whitequark> so for thin film, I don't even need turbo pump, just a pair of strong magnets, some DC source and argon
<whitequark> no one sells broken microwaves anymore, they're not valuable enough D:
<DocScrutinizer05> umm except for the VHF/UHF transceiver (GMRS, PMR446, UHFCB) and AM/FM/SW/LW/WB I think Neo900 is on par :-D
<DocScrutinizer05> but then we got a real modem
<DocScrutinizer05> ;-D
<DocScrutinizer05> cellular modem
<DocScrutinizer05> wtf is a "glove friendly capacitive touchscreen"?
<DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: thought you were suggesting the earl had anemometer
<whitequark> I think it had
<whitequark> glove friendly touchscreen, I think some old touchscreens did not work with gloves
<whitequark> most modern ones do anyway
<whitequark> hm, doesn't seem to have an anemometer
<DocScrutinizer05> I wonder how they do that
<whitequark> maybe it was an earlier "stretch goal" or something?
<whitequark> I remember it quite well
<DocScrutinizer05> or *if*
<DocScrutinizer05> now that you mention it, yes, I think I seen sth like that and thought "duh, you need to hold that board directly in wind direction or you will not meter the real windspeed through that hole"
<whitequark> I think it was expandable or something
<whitequark> pull-out
<DocScrutinizer05> still the sensor would be pretty directional
<DocScrutinizer05> iow there's one postition 90° off the right one, where the anemometer will read zarro even when hurricane hits you
<whitequark> sure
<whitequark> it helps to not be dumb
<DocScrutinizer05> but well, wind speed is in 12 steps or sth, and not very steady either, and user has a certain idea where from it blows ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> iow you wouldn't need highly exact readouts anyway
<DocScrutinizer05> "rotate 180° slowly, device will calculate correct maximum and wind direction"
<DocScrutinizer05> :-)
<DocScrutinizer05> Neo900 will not be able to do that, data acquisition rate is way too low for that
<DocScrutinizer05> thanks to thermal "inertia" of the sensor
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<DocScrutinizer05> I think new ones son't either
<DocScrutinizer05> oops
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<DocScrutinizer05> that YT video has the best subtitle at the very end :-D
<DocScrutinizer05> alas for really decent laser you need convex mirrors
<whitequark> ohhh
<whitequark> well, this guy considers a MOT an acceptable power source
<whitequark> i bet he'll make do with this mirror
<DocScrutinizer05> it kinda will work, sure
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<DocScrutinizer05> but convergence and beam diameter will be *eeeew*
<DocScrutinizer05> well, I'm looking forward to the next part of this enterprise
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