<wolfspraul> larsc: can you tell me which registers on the giantplus side are undocumented?
<wolfspraul> I can test their willingness to share more documentation with us :-)
<vegyraupe> morning
<wolfspraul> vegyraupe: believe it or not, the digital picture frame is on the way to you!
<wolfspraul> DHL just picked it up...
<wolfspraul> gnufs: nice picture :-)
<wolfspraul> can you upload it to the wiki, http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Special:Upload
<larsc> wolfspraul: the display is super stable now. even without setting the undocumented registers
<vegyraupe> wolfspraul: wow! great! yippie!
<wolfspraul> larsc: oh, why that?
<wolfspraul> larsc: about more recent kernel versions, I read somewhere 2.6.33 introduced something called 'compressed memory'. could this be helpful on the ben?
<larsc> wolfspraul: i used their init sequence, just without the undocumented registers
<wolfspraul> hmm, OK
<larsc> wolfspraul: yes, it can be used and i've already been looking into it.
<wolfspraul> if you can tell me the numbers of undocumented registers I can still ask
<zear> hey wolfspraul, what's with that CECT C3100 phone?
<zear> are you planning to port linux to it?
<wolfspraul> ah yes
<larsc> wolfspraul: register numbers 0xac, 0x96, 0x97
<wolfspraul> zear: another thing on my list first - you mentioned a jlime meeting in poland. Can you add it to http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Qi:Current_events
<wolfspraul> so the C3100
<wolfspraul> puh, bit of a long story
<zear> wolfspraul, i'll do it as fast as i get sure it's official and everyone is welcome
<wolfspraul> Qi is copyleft hardware, not just Ben NanoNote
<wolfspraul> we are interested in adding GPS, see the talk about a Garmin-like device for OSM
<wolfspraul> and of course also interested in phones
<zear> yeah, i realize
<wolfspraul> so we are following osmocombb
<zear> that's why I ask - is it planned to be a linux phone?
<wolfspraul> for now osmocom uses ti calypso and maybe locosto chipsets to hack into
<wolfspraul> but harald has an eye on mtk as well
<wolfspraul> so when he asked on the list I offered a bit of MTK research support, since I just happened to be in shenzhen
<zear> if you guys ever manage to port linux to a similar phone and still keep it at the low price, i'll definitely buy one
<zear> or even two
<zear> i always wanted to have a linux phone that looks like a phone and works like a phone, unlike freerunner ;)
<wolfspraul> zear: you would have to buy more like 50K and become a big disti for Poland :-)
<wolfspraul> but yes, I share your sentiments and of course we work on this stuff
<zear> haha, not gonna happen ;D
<wolfspraul> who knows
<wolfspraul> if I can sell you these phones for 15 USD a piece, and we can get really functional software on it, you might find people in Poland that are very interested in financing it all. like large retail chains etc.
<wolfspraul> but lots of pieces are missing still
<zear> if it had features like encrypted calls and texts
<zear> then it would probably sell good
<wolfspraul> so one by one
<wolfspraul> osmocom is being developed
<wolfspraul> it's a long long way
<wolfspraul> I'm actually somewhat doubtful about the GSM stacks since they are huge and moving forward
<wolfspraul> but the project is great still, and if I can support it a bit from the MTK side I'm happy to do that
<wolfspraul> this is 'alpha' stage though
<zear> so it's gonna take years, eh?
<wolfspraul> yes
<wolfspraul> realistically
<wolfspraul> actually the Ben is a step there
<zear> still, it's something really interesting
<wolfspraul> you just need to see all the pieces
<wolfspraul> but unfortunately there are lots of pieces
<wolfspraul> that's why the SAKC, even Milkymist One, Elphel cameras, etc. all fit into this
<wolfspraul> we'll see
<wolfspraul> so for this wiki page, yes I bought some of those phones, and tried to see how cheap & fast I can dig into the PCB
<wolfspraul> was quite successful
<wolfspraul> I basically found a shop on the street that can do what you see on that wiki page for 100 USD in 2 days or so
<zear> is it a form of reverse engineering?
<wolfspraul> I'm not going to distinguish between forward engineering and reverse engineering.
<wolfspraul> I only do forward engineering :-)
<wolfspraul> I buy phones, then I take apart my property.
<wolfspraul> those pictures are lined up in physical order, i.e. you can zoom through the product
<zear> i can only imagine how many iphones that company gets for taking apart :D
<wolfspraul> not many
<wolfspraul> no point
<wolfspraul> there is not that much design work in the PCB anyway
<zear> to produce cheap ripoff, i guess ;)
<wolfspraul> no no
<wolfspraul> it's all different than you think :-)
<zear> ah
<wolfspraul> so anyway, did this explain the C3100 page in the wiki?
<zear> well, yeah, the PCB is completely different in the ripoffs, they just use the same form factor and look like the originals
<zear> i guess so :)
<wolfspraul> it's a support effort for a neighboring project, osmocombb
<wolfspraul> we'd love to do just what you are asking for
<wolfspraul> a phone that looks like a phone, and runs 100% free Linux
<wolfspraul> believe it or not, by buying a nanonote, and hacking on it, and helping us with kernel, apps, Debian, etc. you are contributing towards that direction
<wolfspraul> at least I hope so, and we don't die before reaching the goal :-)
<zear> :D
<zear> just don't follow the way of openpandora and you'll be fine ;)
<larsc> what did they do wrong?
<zear> taking preorders for unexistant hardware
<zear> it's about 3 years since they started the preorders
<zear> and they still don't have a finished product
<wejp> yeah, that really sucks
<zear> and in the meanwhile many people resigned
<wejp> also they are not building open source hardware, so you can't really compare that anyway
<zear> and they had to return their preorder money back
<vegyraupe> zear, wejp: the problem is not the way they finance the project, but the fact that they had no idea what they were getting it to
<vegyraupe> it = in
<wejp> vegyraupe, yes you are right, that is the biggest problem there
<zear> i agree
<vegyraupe> if you don't wanna be dependent on some ppl with big money you have to find alternative ways
<vegyraupe> and I like the approach of community supported development better and better
<zear> btw, when can we expect any public information about how are the bens selling?
<vegyraupe> of course with modifications to OP's way, but the same general idea
<wejp> vegyraupe, yes, but in case of "open pandora" except the money they took for the preorders from the community, there hasn't been ver much influence on the actual product by the community
<vegyraupe> wejp: as I said with modifications ;)
<vegyraupe> I would see the community as the customer
<vegyraupe> so the customer creates specs
<wejp> not that i don't like the hardware design, i do, but still, it was only a very small group of people building a handheld console
<vegyraupe> the company makes an offer
<vegyraupe> and then the customer looks over it
<vegyraupe> and the two parties agree to a plan
<wejp> yyeah
<vegyraupe> when modifications need to be made
<vegyraupe> it goes back to the customer for a decission
<vegyraupe> and of course the customer wouldn't pay the whole sum up front
<vegyraupe> but only part of it to finance development
<wejp> problem with the pandora was, it turned out to be even more expensive than what they got through the preorders
<vegyraupe> i don't follow them that closely
<vegyraupe> but I am sure if that happened than probably because they hadn't done anything like that before
<wejp> yes
<vegyraupe> and considering that, it is actually amazing what they built
<wejp> of course it is
<vegyraupe> i thinkit is a very good proof of concept and commendable that they even tried
<wolfspraul> zear: we sold about 500 Ben so far
<zear> wolfspraul, of how many in total?
<wolfspraul> which is a good start, roughly in line with my estimates. Problem will be to sustain it now, which depends on improving software.
<wolfspraul> zear: first batch we made 1000
<zear> i guess that's a good result?
<wolfspraul> we are taking all this very carefully
<wejp> oh 500 sold out of 1000 isn't bad :)
<wolfspraul> we are spending a lot of time to visiting vendors, digging deeper into the production process
<wolfspraul> well we need to sell all 1000
<wolfspraul> and then the second 1000
<wolfspraul> etc
<wolfspraul> :-)
<wejp> sure :)
<wolfspraul> also drive price further down
<wejp> i'm sure a future nanonote version which comes with wireless included would sell much better as this seems to be what most people interested in the device complain about in the first place. i for myself would be fine with just having usb host port (preferably a type a connector on the device), but internal wireless would be nice too
<wolfspraul> my current Ya NanoNote looks like Ben, but 4760 CPU, USB On-The-Go, more RAM (maximum supported by one chip), hopeRF RF module
<wolfspraul> but who knows it's all moving
<wolfspraul> the seeds are growing
<wejp> how much RAM does the CPU support?
<wolfspraul> which one?
<wolfspraul> the goal now is to max out the Ben
<wejp> the one you've chosen for the Ya
<wolfspraul> don't know
<wolfspraul> for one it support mobile DDR
<wolfspraul> finaly
<wolfspraul> Ben has SDRAM
<mortys> Hi all
<wolfspraul> wejp: 'chosen' is the wrong word, we haven't chosen anything
<wolfspraul> focus now is Ben
<wejp> btw, the cpu speed of the ben which i would least complain about, memory bus is a little thin but cpu speed is fine
<zear> what is a rf module? some sort of a wireless radio?
<wolfspraul> we need to show that we can bring out the performance of the HW to the normal end user
<wejp> wolfspraul: yeah, i understand, i meant just the configuration you spoke about :)
<wolfspraul> zear: yes
<wolfspraul> there were some mails about it on the list. just being evaluated right now, together with many other things...
<wejp> so you are going with USB OTG to be able to keep the same case?
<zear> yeah, read the mails already
<zear> but i don't really understand the idea behind it ;)
<wolfspraul> zear: what do you mean with "don't understand"?
<zear> well, what it could be used for
<zear> is this a well know and popular standard, that many devices use?
<zear> *known
<larsc> otg?
<zear> on the go, can pair two otg devices without a need of usb host
<larsc> no, i was wondering if you were asking about otg
<wejp> not only that, you can also attach a usb slave device to a usb otg capable device
<zear> no, i was asking about the RF
<wejp> i was asking about otg, if it has been "chosen" to be able to keep the ben nanonote case
<zear> wejp, so how is it different than a host then?
<wejp> zear, it can also run as normal slave mode, and the connector is usually the small slave port, not the large type A port
<zear> wejp, that means it requires a mini>normal converter
<larsc> otg is basically a host and a device behind a inteligent transiver which decides which one is to use
<zear> i have one and it's like 2,5cm big
<wejp> zear, yes
<wejp> that's why i would prefer a USB A type port on the device, but i understand if this will not be done, to keep the ben case as it is
<zear> yep
<vegyraupe> wejp: do you have any plans on making gmu playing videos as well?
<zear> ha, that would be cool
<vegyraupe> zear: +1 :)
<zear> vegyraupe, but you mean a video support written from scratch, or some kind of a gui for mplayer?
<vegyraupe> zear: no idea about the details :)
<wejp> vegyraupe: writing a video plaer isn't a simple task, so it requires a lot of work to do that
<wejp> i'm not sure yet, if i'll do that. maybe i'll put some work into videoplaying when it is mostly feature-complete from the musicplayer point of view.
<zear> it is mostly feature-complete music player already :)
<wejp> zear, it it mostly is, there are only a few things left, i would like to add :)
<zear> :)
<wejp> and if you have every looked at ffmpeg (which one could use for creating a video player), you probably know that even doing very simple things with that library are rather complicated to say at least
<wejp> s/every/ever
<zear> yeah, i always have to study the manual before i do anything with it
<wejp> and that does not even involve putting a video on the screen yet
<wejp> which also needs to be done, and it needs to be done in a fast way
<vegyraupe> just wanted to spark the thought :)
<wejp> then, ou need to keep video and audio in sync...
<wejp> hehe, yeah, that's fine :)
<zear> oh, i didn't even know there's a "ffplay"
<wejp> i just wanted to point out that this is a rather long way to go, if i want to do that ^^
<zear> should it be faster than mplayer?
<vegyraupe> coz then one could create a "mediaplayer" which comes with gmu as the graphical interface :)
<wejp> zear, not necessarily
<vegyraupe> create here: build
<wejp> vegyraupe that could be an option, but i don't like it that much becaue until now, Gmu is a stand-alone player that does not need an external program to play stuff
<wejp> of course you need some librarries but it doesn't call external programs
<vegyraupe> external programs?
<zear> write your own video processing lib then :D
<wejp> well, i'll think about the whole video stuff a little  :)
<vegyraupe> wejp: by mediaplayer I meant a physical device
<wejp> zear, hehe, yeah, if i find the time to do that :D
<wejp> vegyraupe, oh, ok i see :)
<vegyraupe> my sis bought one of these
<vegyraupe> sized as a cheap digi cam
<vegyraupe> with a screen
<vegyraupe> and earplugs
<wejp> i agree that it would be nice to use the same interface for all media formats
<vegyraupe> and all it does is play videos and music
<vegyraupe> and the avt2 boards and even teh ben is not too far away from that
<wejp> eah
<wejp> y
<wejp> argh, my y button works only every second time i hit it or so
<zear> vegyraupe, weird thing is, that even with ingenics patches and with an ipu, mplayer on the dingoo is really, really slow
<zear> you can't play anything greater than 320x240 without lags
<wejp> the video player from the default firmware isn't much better though
<zear> well, mplayer has to scale everything to 320x240 anyway, but it's more convinient to just let it play a dvd quality movie than to fiddle with ffmpeg and convert it to 320x240
<vegyraupe> zear: that's not quite my department ;)
<zear> :P
<zear> not to mention a nononote, which has less available ram
<zear> *nanonote
<wejp> does the nanonote cpu even have the ipu?
<zear> hmm.. no idea
<wejp> it does have those SIMD instructions, but the IPU is an entirely different thing
<wejp> i think only the 4740 has it not the 4720, but i could be wrong
<larsc> both have it
<wejp> yeah, just checked the datasheet, you are right
<larsc> the only real difference between 4720 and 4740 is the form factor and the pin which are available
<wejp> still, if the dingoo has problems with playing videos it will be a real challenge to get that working on the nanonote. the dingoo has twice the memory bandwith compared to the nanonote :|
<wejp> d
<zear> ingenics mplayer compiled for the nanonote using dingux toolchain just segfaults for me :P
<wejp> mh
<wejp> do you know where it segfaults?
<zear> same with the binary some other guy from the community compiled and claimed it worked for his ben
<tuxbrain> video conversation yummy yummy
<wejp> :D
<zear> wejp, nope, didn't bother bugtracing it
<wejp> ok
<wejp> need valgrind on the ben :D
<zear> *bug tracking
<zear> i heard valgrind is good, it helped my coder to track one nasty bug with the Tower of Gowno for the pacc contest
<zear> we couldn't find it with either gdb or strace
<wejp> yes, valgrind is a great tool
<wejp> i like it much better than stupid gdb
<cain__> good morning
<cain__> I have a little question
<cain__> how can I return to console from gmenu2x?
<xiangfu> cain_, CTRL + ALT + F1.
<cain__> thanks xiangfu
<xiangfu> cain_,  you can edit /etc/inittab. remove the "tty5/6/7/8"
<xiangfu> cain_, then you can go back to gmenu2x by CTRL+ALT+F5
<xiangfu> cain_, you are welcome.
<Snaker> hey would it be possible to add a Pointing stick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick to future models of the NanoNote, that would make it awesome!
<wejp> i like that idea :)
<zear> me too, though do we really have a place for it?
<wejp> well maybe not in the middle of the keyboard, but rather above it between speaker an microphone
<wejp> i would like that better than a touchscreen
<zear> yeah, unless there's something on the PCB in there
<zear> same
<wejp> yeah, not sure if it is, but shouldn't be difficult to find out :)
<darfgarf> if anyone's interested, i'll be doing a proper release of nupdf later tonight
<vegyraupe> darfgarf: hui, cool
<tuxbrain> darfgarf: Yay!!! I was waiting for this :)
<darfgarf> sorry for taking so long, the competition judging dragged on
<darfgarf> (came 9th)
<tuxbrain> I have not understand a word about you have said :P
<darfgarf> tha's ok XD  nothing important
<tuxbrain> not pushing at all, but you will do a Makefile to proper include on next distro?
<zear> tuxbrain, the pacc competiton darfgarf (and me) participeted in has finished the 31th march, but the results of the contest were announced today
<tuxbrain> ok :)
<zear> btw, is it "on 31th" or "at 31th" or yet somehow different? :P
<darfgarf> tuxbrain: maybe, but i don't know much/anything about packaging for openwrt, and it's 1 month until exams start   (zear, 31st :P)
<zear> so "the" wasn't needed as well? :P
<darfgarf> the 31st yes
<darfgarf> or you could ignore it
<zear> so i was right after all, hooray for me! ;P
<tuxbrain> darfgarf: Ok, just make it compile and tell us what are the dependencies, someone (maybe me) will do the work of doing the Makefile, I think this is a key piece of soft for nano
<zear> i suck at prepositions :P
<zear> darfgarf, owrt toolchain is a nightmare to set up
<darfgarf> tuxbrain: i'll include the compile scripts i use, and also compile it statically, so it can just be dropped in and used
<zear> it's not as simple as throwing it to /opt and exporthing the path
<zear> btw tuxbrain, is there any pdf reader for the wiz?
<darfgarf> zear: so it can wait or be done by someone else, i shouldn't even be touching it but it's the end of the week and i haven't stopped work at all
<zear> i could recompile nupdf for it
<darfgarf> zear: think there is
<darfgarf> look up Mipdf
<tuxbrain> zear, really I dont understand why you have the need of move the tolchain , it's easier to do the Makefile really
<zear> darfgarf, ah, you're right
<zear> tuxbrain, because i want to just export the path and run ./configure --host= --target=
<zear> and with the owrt toolchain you have to manually edit the makefiles becuse libs are located in an unusual place
<zear> (the whole toolchain is divided in two dirs)
<tuxbrain> I supose is an advantage being an ignorant in this case, cause I 'm not used to  compile in anyway , anyway is fine for me :)
<zear> i might be wrong after all
<zear> i hope i am and there's an easy way to set up owrt toolchain :)
<darfgarf_> meh, i'll put it as a todo at the end of a very very long list of things
<zear> :P
<tuxbrain> owrt is thinked to do full firmware and I think is good for that porpouse, I might recognize is not such ergonomic for individual ports, but in the long run (make things manteinable on time) I think is a better aproach
<zear> yeah, i agree to that
<zear> but that also means you need to set up every single new port to work with it
<zear> and that takes time
<darfgarf_> and keep it compatible with the dingoo at the same time
<zear> it's just a matter of a makefile
<darfgarf_> though that's just doing things in a slightly different way really
<zear> if you have one single makefile for your project, it should be compatible with both the dingoo and owrt
<tuxbrain> I hope we should find a way to make two words compatible
<zear> just use different makefiles for dingoo and owrt
<zear> we could always do a standalone owrt toolchain
<zear> for easy porting
<darfgarf_> just uploaded v0.2 of nupdf to the dingoo file archive, here's the link:   http://dl.openhandhelds.org/cgi-bin/dingoo.cgi?0,0,0,0,113,345
<tuxbrain> darfgarf:is this binary also compatible wit BNN
<tuxbrain> ?
<darfgarf_> bnn?
<darfgarf_> or if you slipped and meant to put nn, then yes, nupdf is the nn version, nupdf.dge is for dingoo (keybindings are the main difference)
<darfgarf_> should just drop in and work...hopefully
<tuxbrain> bnn=Ben NanoNote
<darfgarf_> ah right, i just use nn (but the answer is yes put simply)
<kristianpaul> bnn = nano = ben = ... :)
<kristianpaul> bien
<kristianpaul> tuxbrain: what's the maximun speed you got with arduino serial stuff?
<tuxbrain> I had not played with it, I just stay in the bnn defaults 57600 bps
<tuxbrain> but the theorical maximum is 115200 bps
<qi-commits> Carlos Camargo: Adding a simple plasma  example read write char short int, adding simulations http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/622f598