#pypy on 2018-12-07 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2018-11-25 07:18 arigato changed the topic of #pypy to: PyPy, the flexible snake (IRC logs: https://quodlibet.duckdns.org/irc/pypy/latest.log.html#irc-end ) | use cffi for calling C | mac OS and Fedora are not Windows

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00:20 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/4933 [default]

00:26 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-s390x/builds/1130 [default]

00:28 <bbot2> Success: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/7122 [default]

00:32 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-macosx-x86-64/builds/4093 [default]

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00:50 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-32/builds/6166 [default]

00:51 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/5846 [default]

01:00 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-s390x/builds/947 [default]

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01:12 <bbot2> Success: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jitbackendonly-own-linux-armhf-v7/builds/1502 [default]

01:28 <bbot2> Success: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/rpython-linux-x86-64/builds/127 [default]

01:52 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/rpython-linux-s390x/builds/79 [default]

02:00 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/build-pypy-c-jit-linux-armel/builds/2572 [py3.5]

02:00 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/build-pypy-c-jit-linux-armhf-raspbian/builds/2333 [py3.5]

02:00 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/5847 [py3.5]

02:00 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/build-pypy-c-jit-linux-armel/builds/2572 [py3.5]

02:00 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/build-pypy-c-jit-linux-armhf-raspbian/builds/2333 [py3.5]

02:00 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/7123 [py3.5]

02:00 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-32/builds/6167 [py3.5]

02:00 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/4934 [py3.5]

02:00 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-macosx-x86-64/builds/4094 [py3.5]

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02:29 <bbot2> Success: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/rpython-linux-x86-32/builds/104 [default]

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03:12 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/4934 [py3.5]

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03:28 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/5847 [py3.5]

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04:22 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/7123 [py3.5]

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04:41 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-macosx-x86-64/builds/4094 [py3.5]

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07:01 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-32/builds/6167 [py3.5]

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07:12 <arigato> looking at https://bitbucket.org/pypy/pypy/pull-requests/583/math-improvements/diff

07:13 <arigato> I wonder if it would make sense to take it in a small bit at a time

07:13 <arigato> for example I can review and accept the changes to translator/c/ and rpython/lltypesystem/

07:15 <arigato> (these parts are likely missing tests, too)

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07:41 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/rpython-win-x86-32/builds/106 [default]

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07:56 <cfbolz> arigato: I did a fairly careful review and improvements to the rbigint and objspace part last year

07:57 <cfbolz> arigato: those parts have good test coverage now too

07:57 <cfbolz> arigato: so if you could look at the C and lltypesystem part, that would be great

08:00 <arigato> ok

08:02 <arigato> ah, getting some insight inside issue #2926

08:03 <arigato> it's a bridge which contains the following instructions

08:03 <arigato> setfield_gc(p69, f63, descr=<FieldF pypy.objspace.std.floatobject.W_FloatObject.inst_floatval 8 pure>)

08:03 <arigato> guard_subclass(p69, ConstClass(W_IntObject))

08:04 <arigato> and then it passes f63 because that's the first virtual field

08:04 <cfbolz> arigato: ugh wat?

08:05 <arigato> it's an always-failing test, but the following never-executed jump explodes the assembler

08:05 <cfbolz> ok, but how can such a trace even be generated?

08:06 <cfbolz> arigato: is this from a small preamble?

08:06 <arigato> note the guard_subclass: yes, from a short preamble

08:06 <cfbolz> ah, right

08:06 <cfbolz> shouldn't we get "invalid loop" then?

08:06 <arigato> the rules for guard_subclass are different...

08:07 <cfbolz> ok, but still. this is clearly not fitting the rule ;-)

08:07 <arigato> I think it's a jump to a loop which doesn't check that p69 is exactly a W_IntObject

08:09 <arigato> ah, it's really "caused" by --objspace-std-withprebuiltint

08:09 <arigato> in this code, we read "w_prebuilt = prebuilt_array[index]"

08:09 <arigato> and then set do "w_prebuilt.intval = index"

08:09 <arigato> without class checking

08:10 <arigato> so "w_prebuilt" is only supposed to be a W_IntObject-or-subclass

08:11 <cfbolz> eh

08:11 <cfbolz> right

08:12 * arigato tries to write a test

08:19 <cfbolz> arigato: it still sounds to me that we should put all of that stuff into "if not we_are_jitted()"

08:20 <arigato> yes, that's a different issue

08:20 <cfbolz> sure, sure

08:20 <cfbolz> it's still a jit bug

08:33 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/4269 [py3.5]

08:33 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jitbackendonly-own-linux-armhf/builds/1751 [default]

08:46 <arigato> yay, managed to write a test

08:46 <arigato> (I think?)

08:50 <arigato> yes

08:59 <cfbolz> arigato: cool

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09:31 <cfbolz> arigato: right that makes sense to me

09:34 <arigato> math-improvements: I reviewed the low-level parts, and fixed one or two mistakes

09:39 <cfbolz> arigato: thanks, I can give it another review and merge during the next days, makes sense?

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10:10 <mattip> Reading through the long C-API thread on python-dev, it seems we should be participating

10:11 <mattip> it seems this post is not even the head of the thread https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-November/155706.html

10:12 <mattip> I wonder if we could come up with a definition of a C-API that would be not too slow on PyPY

10:14 <mattip> any type of iterating through a tuple/list/dictionary will force a strategy change to PyObject from int/float/string, so that would be the first thing to avoid on my list

10:16 <mattip> Maybe defining use cases:

10:16 <mattip> - I have a pile of battle-tested c code, how do I call it quickly from python? Use CFFI

10:17 <mattip> - I have some slow python code, I want to make it fast? Use PyPy natively, or use cython

10:18 <mattip> Are there more use cases?

10:20 <mattip> ahh, there is the "numpy" one:

10:21 <mattip> - I have a data structure that is a bad fit for pure python, and PEP-3118 is not good enough, let's use NumPy as a data structure container

10:22 <mattip> i.e. opencv, tensorflow. But I think that is not a very well defined (or wrongly defined) use case

10:22 <LarstiQ> - I want to use Python as a scripting language inside my non-python based project

10:23 <mattip> LarstiQ: what do you want to pass back and forth?

10:24 <mattip> just embedding is "easy", the problems start when you want to get something into or out of the embedded interpreter

10:24 <LarstiQ> mattip: e.g. Blender, Civilization, Maya. Not so much about back and forth but control

10:25 <LarstiQ> and the Python C API is what people reach for

10:30 <mattip> civilization http://sthurlow.com/python/ "scripting code will be in python, and the game data in XML"

10:31 <mattip> so that seems doable via passing strings without needing deep PyObject creation

10:31 <mattip> and modification

10:41 <mattip> blender - https://github.com/dfelinto/blender/blob/eb6fe5fa94b86a0a20742e06bf1e68b4cbaf6693/source/blender/python/intern/bpy_interface.c

10:42 <mattip> seems like not too much low-level messing around with python internals

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10:46 <LarstiQ> there is a new api I think in blender 2.80, but probably hasn't changed in this respect

10:47 <mattip> link?

10:48 <LarstiQ> mattip: https://git.blender.org/gitweb/gitweb.cgi/blender.git/shortlog/refs/heads/blender2.8

10:50 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-win-x86-32/builds/1906 [default]

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12:07 <arigato> cfbolz: yes, it makes sense to push it forward

12:09 <cfbolz> Cool

12:09 <cfbolz> arigato: we should also brainstorm ideas for the list strategy issue at some point

12:10 <cfbolz> #2881

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12:44 <arigato> yes, but unsure what we can do

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13:25 <cfbolz> arigato: there are mitigation ideas. eg using prebuiltints would solve the problem for not too large ints. or we could use a LRU cache for ints when not in the jit

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14:00 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-s390x/builds/947 [default]

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14:59 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/4269 [py3.5]

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15:41 <bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/4268 [default]

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16:48 <_aegis_> I embed python in my app as the primary scripting language and I found it MUCH nicer to write low level C APIs and do the python object wrangling in python instead of in C

16:48 <_aegis_> (pypy -> cffi -> my C API) instead of (python -> cpython api)

16:48 <_aegis_> this is after originally writing it against the cpython 2 api, porting it to cpython 3, then porting it to pypy

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16:49 <_aegis_> (pypy for performance, as I have some code that runs very often forever)

17:21 <cfbolz> _aegis_: cool

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17:22 <cfbolz> _aegis_: if you ever feel like writing a blog post about your experience, we would love to have it for the PyPy blog

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