#pypy on 2018-09-30 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2018-02-26 15:52 cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: PyPy, the flexible snake (IRC logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/pypy/ ) | use cffi for calling C | the secret reason for us trying to get PyPy users: to test the JIT well enough that we're somewhat confident about it

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01:00 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/build-pypy-c-jit-linux-armel/builds/2478 [py3.5]

01:00 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/build-pypy-c-jit-linux-armhf-raspbian/builds/2239 [py3.5]

01:00 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-macosx-x86-64/builds/3992 [py3.5]

01:00 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/5713 [py3.5]

01:00 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/6999 [py3.5]

01:00 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/4139 [py3.5]

01:00 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-32/builds/6076 [py3.5]

01:00 <bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/4842 [py3.5]

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03:36 <njs> cpython devs discussing whether they can make 'is' have less harmful semantics: https://discuss.python.org/t/demoting-the-is-operator-to-avoid-an-identity-crisis/86

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03:44 <simpson> FWIW what PyPy does (from what I remember last I looked) is comparing the values of immutable value types directly.

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07:45 <kenaan> arigo pypy.org[extradoc] abbf3e5ebd7b /: Add the version number in non-Mac-lingo

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11:26 <fijal> njs: yeah, we already did

11:27 <fijal> njs: but I also expect python-dev to discuss forever and not reach anything, so feel free to point out to them how we solved it

11:36 <arigato> njs: you can point out that we fixed both "is" and "id()", so that id() returns a number that makes "id(x)==id(y)" always equivalent to "x is y"

11:39 <arigato> in other words we tweak id(x) to return a result based on the value instead of the actual pointer address, for all x in some known set

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11:39 <xorAxAx> ... which is necessary because pypy has a copying collector

11:40 <arigato> ? no you're confusing issues

11:41 <arigato> the result of id(x) is normally based on the actual pointer address of *some* non-moving pointer, possibly derived from the actual moving address of the object

11:41 <arigato> but id(x) is based on the value of the object x, for a few basic types

11:42 <arigato> ints, longs, floats, complexes, unbound methods, empty string/unicode/tuple/frozenset, single-char strings, single-char unicodes

11:42 <xorAxAx> ah, ok

11:43 <arigato> this is the exact list for pypy2, arrived after experimentation, so I claim it is (1) not theoretically justified; (2) in practice it is

11:44 <xorAxAx> but e.g. 5.4 is x is not guaranteed to be true (for x == 5.4) for cpy, right?

11:44 <arigato> yes, but it's also not guaranteed to be false

11:44 <xorAxAx> yes

11:48 <xorAxAx> cfbolz: hey, you wrote that you plan a sprint in DUS - might it clash with fosdem?

11:49 <xorAxAx> +might

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12:11 <cfbolz> xorAxAx: when is fosdem?

12:11 <xorAxAx> cfbolz: first weekend of february

12:11 <cfbolz> OK, I'll keep it in mind

12:11 <xorAxAx> thanks!

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12:45 <simpson> njs: As food for thought, I explained the desirable properties of equality here https://gist.github.com/MostAwesomeDude/eee722a254adc100062c1921cfa4dfc9#equality-semantics and there's a classic paper which I reference, http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/ObjectIdentity.html

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22:08 <DarkUranium> Hey guys. I've a question. Does anyone know how heavy a pypy.js build would be, without most of its stdlib? (Just the basics, but no I/O or such)

22:14 <simpson> DarkUranium: I don't have details on pypy.js (is it still a thing?) but most of the stdlib is pure-Python and in fact it's (mostly) the same as CPython's: https://bitbucket.org/pypy/pypy/src/94d034975108025e07b56e85bf53b7a5d124f875/lib-python/2.7/?at=default

22:14 <simpson> A no-I/O build would be interesting but I don't think that there's a configuration option for it.

22:16 <DarkUranium> Hm.

22:16 <DarkUranium> Well, the I/O does bring with it the whole virtual FS that it needs.

22:16 <DarkUranium> but yeah, looks like that project is unmaintained anyhow.

22:17 <simpson> I don't think that there's a non-libc build either, but I might be wrong on that.

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