07:04 <beneroth> hi all

07:04 <beneroth> [OT] someone using windows? all versions since XP (including Win10 and Server 2016) allow privilege escalation: http://csl.com.co/rid-hijacking/

07:14 <Regenaxer> Hi beneroth!

07:14 <beneroth> Good morning Regenaxer !

07:15 <Regenaxer> :)

11:28 <beneroth> [OT] interesting discussion of microservice architecture: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18255110

11:33 <beneroth> and here a lisp discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18253596

11:33 <beneroth> maybe something for tankf33der :)

11:33 <tankf33der> thanks.

11:34 <beneroth> your welcome. top comment argues about the weaknesses of common lisp, so maybe good opportunity to mention alternatives ;)

11:38 <Regenaxer> Isn't a pil app server a kind of microservice? Small processes communicating with each other ;)

11:38 <beneroth> it could be used as a microservice (in a collection of other apps), but pil app is clearly monolith architecture

11:39 <Regenaxer> I don't know where the border is

11:39 <beneroth> even more so when DB is part of the application (which I consider an extreme advantage), this is nowhere the case anymore since like last 90s

11:39 <Regenaxer> calling java and/or shell and external tools

11:39 <beneroth> there is of course no exact borde

11:48 <beneroth> I would say, typical pil Apps are definitely monolithic in nature

11:49 <beneroth> but PLIO and the pil IPC is a very powerful tool for building a web of pil-microservices. probably more powerful than what is usually used (REST, so HTTP + JSON I assume)

12:02 <beneroth> I remember talking to my colleague Gary Byers one time about current CCL, and I said, “Hey, look, we waste a lot of space sometimes, in certain data representations, and if we made a little bit of effort we could make things a lot smaller.” And he said, “Listen, when I was working on old Coral Common Lisp and MCL after that, we worried about how many symbols were left over, maybe useless symbols in the heap image because we didn’t want the distribu

12:02 <beneroth> tion to span extra floppies."

12:02 <beneroth> hahaha

12:03 <beneroth> picolispers: still worrying about number of Symbols in 2018 :)

12:03 <beneroth> (well even more hardcore, we worry about cells :P )

12:10 <Regenaxer> haha, exactlty

12:24 <beneroth> my friend just made me aware of a blog about someone learning picolisp!

12:24 <beneroth> https://ralsina.me/weblog/posts/playing-with-picolisp-part-1.html

12:25 <beneroth> anyone knowing this person?

12:25 <beneroth> the critic about lack of tutorials is a pretty valid one :)

12:28 <Regenaxer> Cool! Did not know him

12:29 <Regenaxer> reading ...

12:35 <Regenaxer> Really cool so far!

12:35 <Regenaxer> "blame alcohol" for car and car

12:36 <Regenaxer> The 'nth' example is wrong though

12:39 <beneroth> PicoLizard made a comment concerning nt xD

12:40 <Regenaxer> oh

12:40 <Regenaxer> "Please enable JavaScript to view the comments powered by Disqus"

12:40 <Regenaxer> so I did not see :)

12:42 <Regenaxer> yes, PicoLizard is correct

12:49 <beneroth> I was just made aware of the GRPC format (alternative to REST/JSON, used in microservices now apparently): https://developers.google.com/protocol-buffers/docs/encoding

12:49 <beneroth> from reading that I have the impression that PLIO is more powerful.

12:50 <Regenaxer> At least PLIO seems easier to use

12:51 <beneroth> that too. but you forget that nobody these days does implement anything binary, they just use fat libraries for their languages provided by someone else. and some compilers and code-generators and such.

12:51 <beneroth> within picolisp PLIO is still easier to use of course :D

12:51 <beneroth> PLIO and C might be different, but I still feel that PLIO would be easier

12:52 <Regenaxer> yeah, and concerning power, PLIO is equivalent to s-expr

12:52 <Regenaxer> not more and not less

12:54 <beneroth> exactly

13:13 <beneroth> Regenaxer, good quote from Alan Kay illustrating modern software development:

13:13 <beneroth> "Most software today is very much like an Egyptian pyramid with millions of bricks piled on top of each other, with no structural integrity, but just done by brute force and thousands of slaves. "

13:13 <beneroth> I'm sure aw- agrees.

13:13 <beneroth> Regenaxer, big gap to your way of working :)

13:13 <Regenaxer> true!

13:14 <Regenaxer> yeah

13:14 <Regenaxer> Though thousands of slaves would be good to have

13:15 <beneroth> bad educated depressed slaves?

13:15 <Regenaxer> hmm, ok, give up

13:16 <beneroth> a niche group in economics is actually arguing that slavery-based economy was better (at least in some respect) to the current model ^^

13:17 <Regenaxer> Yes, so we could use robots

13:17 <Regenaxer> (until the robots get rights!)

13:17 <beneroth> but well... in some sense many people in western societies are still kinda enslaved, but in Huxly-Style they are (kept) ignorant of it

13:17 <beneroth> aye

13:17 <Regenaxer> sadly yes

13:18 <beneroth> robots are better slaves. but for quite longer human drones will give more functionality for less money.