<cess11>
stacksmith: my workflow stack is vim, tmux, pil on remote debian or local android with termux. it depends on the task exactly how i use these tools but i have no patience with ide:s or loading ti
<cess11>
mes
<Regenaxer>
cess11, exactly my line!
<cess11>
:)
<Regenaxer>
The only thing missing for me is a bigger tablet
<Regenaxer>
12 " or so
<mtsd>
Good morning everyone
<Regenaxer>
on the other hand, a 9 " one is easier to hold
<Regenaxer>
Good morning mtsd!
<Regenaxer>
Good morning all!
<Regenaxer>
And one other problem: Tmux does not interact well with Termux
<Regenaxer>
There is some bug in one of them
<Regenaxer>
Ncurses applications (vim, vip, mutt) produce garbage on the screen
<Regenaxer>
I hope this will be resolved
<cess11>
right, noticed in mutt
<Regenaxer>
fornwall, the developer of Termux, is investigating
<Regenaxer>
Yes, in mutt it is especially happening often
<cess11>
tmux is a bit wobbly, it breaks easily
<Regenaxer>
I see problems only in Termux, not in other environments yet
<cess11>
from w3m dumping weird encodings in it e.g.
<Regenaxer>
You think it is tmux's fault?
<Regenaxer>
In w3m I did not see any problem yet
<cess11>
possibly, not sure but i have wrecked it under linux too
<Regenaxer>
I see
<Regenaxer>
a pity
<Regenaxer>
tmux is so useful
<cess11>
not as often though.
<cess11>
T
<beneroth>
Good morning all
<Regenaxer>
Good morning beneroth
<mtsd>
Good morning beneroth
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<cess11>
i like to walk around while using my tablet so i think 10"+ might be a little too big
<Regenaxer>
T
<Regenaxer>
10 is both too big and too small
<Regenaxer>
I can hold 9 with one hand fully
<Regenaxer>
My wife has 10, and it is too big for my hand
<cess11>
i have a 10.1" that is a little unwieldy but usable
<cess11>
5.5" is nice for commuting, allows for a terminal and small penti circles
<Regenaxer>
yes, fits into a pocket
<Regenaxer>
What is extremely useful for tmux under penti is that ^B is a single touch
<Regenaxer>
as ^B is the default command key in tmux
<cess11>
yes
<cess11>
very convenient compared to the usual software keyboards
<cess11>
dangerous though
<cess11>
but worth it
<Regenaxer>
yep
* beneroth
is currently a bit annoyed that F+h (help) -> do correct input (e.g. ",") -> F is still active until one touches reset
<Regenaxer>
But you can type the desired key at this point too
<Regenaxer>
No need for reset
<beneroth>
yes, but after I typed the desired key I can't continue because F is still active
<beneroth>
so then it gets interpreted as an F+combination
<Regenaxer>
only if you did F-lock
<beneroth>
ah
<beneroth>
maybe I did that
<Regenaxer>
yes, ring-middle
<Regenaxer>
middle-ring is no problem then
<beneroth>
ah I always do ring-middle because so far it was easier to get the timing right
<beneroth>
I see
<beneroth>
thanks!
<Regenaxer>
Maybe we should start an IRC channel #penti ?
<beneroth>
so as always, its fault of the user xD
<Regenaxer>
:)
<beneroth>
maybe, when it has more users. for now #picolisp is fine I guess ^^
<Regenaxer>
yeah
<Regenaxer>
tedious to monitor more channels
<beneroth>
yeah, and I would expect a high overlap of picolispers and penti-users...
<beneroth>
we can still fork a channel once we discuss here penti more often than picolisp :P
<Regenaxer>
not sure, the penti downloads are slowly increasing, without any wide announcement
<Regenaxer>
yep
<beneroth>
cool
<beneroth>
well some will find it on google play, too
<Regenaxer>
not really many though
<beneroth>
and others are probably picolispers like me who heard about it via picolisp, but only now came around to get into it
<Regenaxer>
I don't think anybody finds it. Must be mouth propaganda
<beneroth>
well when you search for keyboard you can find it :)
<Regenaxer>
hmm, there are very many ...
<beneroth>
T, but not many chorded ones.
<Regenaxer>
true
<cess11>
beneroth: same with other modes, lock or next char depending on direction, if you haven't found out
<beneroth>
I found out for Shift
<beneroth>
thx
<cess11>
works the same with P and D too
<cess11>
i think P is the one i lock the most, things like '(@A "#" and the like are kind of common in pil
<Regenaxer>
and D of course, digits , . etc
<Regenaxer>
- + too
<Regenaxer>
After some time I got into my unconciousness when to lock and when not
<Regenaxer>
For just 2 chars it is par
<cess11>
one can put a S or D on top of the P lock and do a one char from another mode, most i use in D can be repeated instead of of lock
* beneroth
doesn't yet programm with penti
<Regenaxer>
and relying on that ESC and RET resets it
<Regenaxer>
yeah
<Regenaxer>
also combinations of C and P, eg. ^\
<Regenaxer>
for kill
<cess11>
ah, yes
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<Regenaxer>
or ^[ as is needed in vi
<Regenaxer>
no, I meant ^]
<Regenaxer>
^[ is ESC, that is easier
<cess11>
beneroth: it's nice, fits well and with tab completion it's fairly fast
<Regenaxer>
ah, and ^\ is not sigkill, but sigquit
<beneroth>
cess11, how do you have tab completion?
<cess11>
i do most of my programming with penti now
<beneroth>
Regenaxer, is the linux penti driver still available (and working) ?
<Regenaxer>
I think it was only in PilOS?
<Regenaxer>
ah
<cess11>
beneroth: '+ mode in repl and index-long finger arpeggio
<Regenaxer>
no, I did not maintain
<Regenaxer>
though I still use it on my notebook
<Regenaxer>
But some new features are not supported in the linux driver
<Regenaxer>
eg. the second and third repeat key
<Regenaxer>
I think the third repeat key is not even documented
<beneroth>
wut? second and 3. repeat key? no idea
<Regenaxer>
sorry ;)
<beneroth>
well I would be interested in the linux version :)
<Regenaxer>
The second is arpeggio thumb + repeat
<Regenaxer>
and the third is index + repeat
<beneroth>
second repeats.. a whole word? or what?
<beneroth>
ah
<beneroth>
second last input?
<Regenaxer>
The linux version is still on the download link
<beneroth>
you do it with one big list or with batches (multiple accu's) ?
<aw->
hi all
<Regenaxer>
Hi aw-
<aw->
what is 'kaputtgegangen' ?
<Regenaxer>
broken
<aw->
oh ok
<aw->
thanks!
<Regenaxer>
gone broken to be exact
<cess11>
interesting problem
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<cess11>
maybe intern words as symbols in a particular namespace and update frequency on the symbols in batches instead?
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<Regenaxer>
The trick is to completely isolate the namespace
<Regenaxer>
this works:
<Regenaxer>
: (load) (symbols 'word) if + car
<Regenaxer>
then ENTER
<Regenaxer>
Now 'word' contains these 3 local symbols
<Regenaxer>
no conflict
<Regenaxer>
: word
<Regenaxer>
-> (("if" ("+") "car"))
<Regenaxer>
The (load) is not needed if the code is in its own file
<Regenaxer>
So the thing needs some namespace juggling
<Regenaxer>
nothing for the faint-at-heart :)
<cess11>
nice
<cess11>
does pilog have a version of prolog's listing?
<tankfeeder>
also there words:
<tankfeeder>
world;--in
<tankfeeder>
light--are unsolved;
<tankfeeder>
so in addition i have to parse all of them
<Regenaxer>
cess11, what does Prolog's listing?
<cess11>
you mean there's junk in the words in the source data?
<cess11>
Regenaxer: lists the entire or relevant parts of the database
<Regenaxer>
ah, 'rules' iirc
<cess11>
sort of similar to 'what and 'who
<Regenaxer>
T
<cess11>
thanks, i'll look into it
<Regenaxer>
Similar to 'pp' I would say
<cess11>
yes, it too
<cess11>
it's a nice tool in interactive use
<Regenaxer>
yeah
<Regenaxer>
and the output can be 'read' in again
<Regenaxer>
if redirected to a file
<cess11>
i'm thinking it might be wortwhile to write a trivial pilog to prolog
<Regenaxer>
Interesting idea indeed
<cess11>
parser for writing models for compilation
<Regenaxer>
So rather the opposite direction? Prolog -> Pilog?
<cess11>
no, rather for export to prolog code so it can be used to make a binary
<Regenaxer>
cool
<cess11>
the other way is probably useful too
<Regenaxer>
Such a binary excludes embedded Lisp calls though
<cess11>
i was thinking about modeling for analysis or world modeling, like translating network data structures in lisp and pilog into basic prolog
<cess11>
yes, they need to be exempt or handled somehow
<Regenaxer>
If the target Prolog could execute embedded scripts ...
<cess11>
swipl supports PrologScript
<Regenaxer>
I thought more of calling a Pil script
<cess11>
right, my bad
<Regenaxer>
not a good idea anyway
<Regenaxer>
a script is too distant
<Regenaxer>
does not have the runtime environment of Prolog
<cess11>
i think it can be done but i'm unsure
<cess11>
for example, a program could be described by a network of decision nodes and rules defined with 'be and run with a tree recursion function, and it would be fairly easy to translate the 'be:s into prolog code which could be used with a port of the tree-recur-function
<cess11>
i think it holds some potential for modeling analyses and knowledge quickly but have swipl or yap optimise and run them
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<tankfeeder>
Misérables
<tankfeeder>
"Mis鲡bles"
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<tankfeeder>
first i see in editor
<tankfeeder>
last is pil println of file
<tankfeeder>
this UTF8 or something, right ?
<Regenaxer>
The text is *not* UTF-8 then
<tankfeeder>
aaa
<Regenaxer>
it takes 3 bytes and makes 1 kanji of it
<tankfeeder>
i should convert then, make sense now
<Regenaxer>
yes, iconv is good for that
<tankfeeder>
pil only :)
<Regenaxer>
oh, with (rd 1) ?
* beneroth
sees a é in first and kanji in second
<cess11>
same
<tankfeeder>
i wrote parse to read words in file
<tankfeeder>
like \w+ in python
<cess11>
i get a lot of kanji when i pull in latin1/svlatin encoding into pil
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<Regenaxer>
So (make (while (rd 1) (link (char @)))) should do?
<m_mans>
now he is a manager in one small company there
<m_mans>
not freelance
<m_mans>
so I will ask more question here ;)
<m_mans>
questions
<Regenaxer>
Good, any time :)
<m_mans>
Ok, bb all
<Regenaxer>
See you!
<Regenaxer>
Have a nice weekend!
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<tankfeeder>
m_mans are lucky
<tankfeeder>
i wonder if code will be open source :)
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<stacksmith>
Hello again...
<stacksmith>
cess11: thanks for chiming in
<stacksmith>
Regenaxer: I finally got something working with tmux, tslime.vim and vim that resembles a possibly working environment. tslime name initially scared me as slime is a very large apparatus; tslime however is pretty minimal, just a few commands to send a form to another tmux frame. I don't want an IDE, but it's nice to compile a form at a time. How do you do it?
<stacksmith>
I mean in terms of compilation. Do you use small files and compile entire files?