adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | Upcoming OCaml MOOC: https://huit.re/ocamlmooc | OCaml 4.03.0 release notes: http://ocaml.org/releases/4.03.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<Algebr> seliopou: ping
<Algebr> seliopou: oh nvm, its like your 3am
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<Algebr> darn, merlin not working with 4.04, Merlin failed with error: "Error: pervasives.cmi is not a compiled interface for this version of OCaml. It seems to be for a newer version of OCaml."
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<reynir> seems like a path issue
<reynir> Are you on the correct switch and everything? :-)
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<Algebr> ya
<Algebr> trying again
<reynir> Is your editor using the correct merlin too?
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<Algebr> I only have one switch
<Algebr> yes
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<Algebr> yep, just tried again with a new switch, sigh.
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<def`> Algebr: no released merlin support 4.04 now
<def`> (current master does)
<def`> (but that's a WIP)
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<Algebr> i c, then would be nice if the opam file for merlin had a ceiling of what it worked with
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<reynir> How come the error message is complaining about wrong version?
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<xavierm02> Hi. Is there some way to have infix notations for types (or even just redefine 'a -> 'b) (other than writing my own camlp4 stuff) ?
<kakadu> What does it mean `infix notation fo types`?
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<xavierm02> kakadu: Something like this: type ('a, 'b) (~>) = ('a, 'b) Map.t;;
<xavierm02> And then being able to use it: fun (f : int ~> bool) -> ...
<reynir> Not as far as I know
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<kakadu> don't think so
<kakadu> maybe you need a compiler patch
<kakadu> I have seen this syntax in the talk about typed algebraic effects
<kakadu> maybe it will be easy to just cherry-pick some patches
<kakadu> happy hacking :)
<xavierm02> Maybe later. I'll keep the normal syntax for now. Thanks :)
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<Algebr> does cohttp not support https yet?
<def`> kakadu: the syntax in the effect talk is hardcoded, and will probably be reserved to algebraic effects
<def`> xavierm02: you shouldn't expect infix types anytime soon (or ever :P)
<def`> you can hack around syntax with type constraints
<kakadu> I do not really care about pretty arrows. Implicits are the another story :)
<reynir> Algebr: it does, but you need something that provides ssl/tls, so `ssl` or `tls`
<def`> type 'a f = MyArrow of 'b neg * 'c constraint 'a = 'b -> 'c
<def`> And now you can use ('b -> 'c) f instead of 'b ~> 'c
<def`> where the arrow is just a syntax thing and has no semantic meaning
<def`> kakadu: :D...
<kakadu> def`: btw, do you know a fine approach to solve a problem with types printing without implicits?
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<def`> kakadu: no, this is inherently non-parametric, so implicit are the right solution
<kakadu> Any crazy idea maybe?
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<kakadu> My scuentific advisor is really agaist implicits
<kakadu> scientific*
<def`> why is that?
<kakadu> He says that they are too... wet, as we say here
<kakadu> not mature enough
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<kakadu> and there some issues with rectypes
<def`> ah sure, I can't blame him
<kakadu> But man, it is a science
<kakadu> A research about mini languages which will never go to production
<kakadu> We don't need maturity there and be production-ready
<kakadu> I have a strange feeling that computer science researchs some stuff which is always immature (hence useless)
<kakadu> except maybe the guys fom OCamlLabs with feffects and multicority
<kakadu> this stuff that I talked about in last ICFP. It is terrible pain to write programs in minikanren because to make programs terminate you need to swap some lines in a random way
<kakadu> And it will work when first argument is a value and second is a logic variable.
<kakadu> but for opposite case you need to reverse order of subformulas in your formula
<kakadu> So, there is no right solution which will work for any input.
<kakadu> TT
<kakadu> okay
<kakadu> it probably was not the right topic for this chat
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<kakadu> But I still want to know the answer does the computer science always work on useless stuff.
<Algebr> hannes: was there plans to make lwt use ocaml-tls instead of the bindings to openssl?
<Algebr> were*
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<Algebr> I want to make a https server with cohttp + ocaml-tls, seems like a few moving parts that need to be glued together
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<hannes> Algebr: I don't have any resources for that.. I'm sure a PR to lwt may be considered by the lwt people.
<Algebr> hannes: your blog is running https, is that with cohttp + ocaml-tls
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<hannes> Algebr: si
<hannes> Algebr: using conduit in between...
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<Algebr`> need to look at the source to see how it works
<Algebr`> thanks!
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<hannes> Algebr`: the source is likely a bit hard to read since the http stack spans over conduit, mirage-http and cohttp... sorry for that (but it's not my code, I'm just using other projects ;)
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<Algebr`> there's mirage-http too?
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<companion_cube> is there any chance that metaOCaml will be merged into mainstream eventually?
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<kakadu_> don't think so
<kakadu_> btw it seems to work only for bytecode
<kakadu_> Am I right?
<kakadu_> ( I was told, didn't check myself)
<companion_cube> I don't know how it is right now
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<edwin> kakadu_: http://okmij.org/ftp/ML/MetaOCaml.html#native looks like the generated code could be compiled with ocamlopt too, it is the meta-generator that is bytecode-only IIUC
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<orbifx> is there a way to embed a cstruct record into another cstruct record?
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<sgronblo> could someone explain to me why ocaml cant figure out that a type is correct if i have an explicit type in my .mli file but it can when i write the type right into my .ml file
<Drup> I'm not sure I understand what you mean
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<edwin> sgronblo: is the inferred type not polymorphic enough? could you give us an example of the type in the mli file, and the type error in your ml file?
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<aantron> Algebr: hannes: PRs/discussions about Lwt_ssl welcome. one possibility is that Lwt_ssl shouldn't be in the base lwt, however.
<hannes> aantron: I'm in favour of not having ssl in lwt. OTOH since it is there, it might be sensible to have the choice between OpenSSL and OCaml-TLS. but I'm busy enough with other things that I'll unlikely do anything in that regards this year.
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<pygeek> What's the best environment for an avid IntelliJ user?
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<aantron> hannes: im in favor of deprecating Lwt_ssl and recommending other libraries, but i haven't had time to fully evaluate this. ocaml-tls appears to have lwt support. an lwt-friendly binding to openssl may or may not still be useful, but i prefer for it to be a separate library over lwt
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<thomasga> what's the proper way to pass `-I dir` arguments to cmxs rules with ocamlbuild
<thomasga> seems that `<dir>: include` is not taken into account
<hannes> aantron: +1 and yes, in OCaml-TLS we have one effectful layer on top of lwt, another for mirage. deprecating lwt_ssl would imho be a good idea (and moving it to a separate library) -- I looked through the interface some time ago and AFAIR wasn't able to easily reuse the very same for a OCaml-TLS-lwt layer
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<aantron> +2 :p it sounds good. i guess neither one of us has time to work on this right now. i would prefer a separate lwt_ssl to have a separate (from me) maintainer, but otherwise i will get to it eventually after dealing with other lwt tasks. if/when you get around to this (next year..), i'll give it priority
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<hannes> since there is a (working) library tls.lwt provided by OCaml-TLS, I'm happy with the current situation (more or less)... one goal might be to unify the API so that clients can swap between lwt_ssl and tls.lwt, but considering the huge gap between OpenSSL and OCaml-TLS API, this might not be achievable (though libnqsb-tls which are reverse C stubs for tls.h (the OpenBSD condensed TLS API) achieves this - replacing Open/LibreSSL shared object with an OCaml-TLS
<hannes> one)
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<aantron> hannes: i'm thinking to eventually link quality lwt-based or lwt-compatible libraries from the lwt readme and/or manual. any combination of ocaml-tls, factored-out lwt_ssl, and/or a compatibility API could be included. the same goes for the eventual deprecation message of the current lwt_ssl
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<companion_cube> it's nice that aantron is decided to trim down lwt
<companion_cube> just at the same time I'm thinking of trimming down containers :p
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<aantron> :p
<aantron> among other things, it might be one way to get more people working on lwt :)
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<rgrinberg> so is the plan for lwt_ssl to get kicked out of the lwt git repo?
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<pippijn> gasche really likes to write long emails
<pippijn> companion_cube: where is gasche by the way?
<companion_cube> I think he's still in the US
<pippijn> I see, ok
<companion_cube> (yes, he does like to explain his thinking in details)
<companion_cube> (it's a good thing)
<pippijn> I like it
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<aantron> rgrinberg: in the ultra long term, at this point, yes
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<rgrinberg> aantron: that would be unfortunate IMO. If anything it would make maintenance harder considering it force you to consider compat. with lwt-ssl. I having extra bug trackers for tiny little libraries will not be well received either.
<rgrinberg> How about just splitting lwt into multiple opam packages in 1 git repo?
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<Drup> rgrinberg: I think aantron want to kick it out of the opam package
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<eitan> hello, what is the equivalent of `undefined :: a` from Haskell in OCaml? Thanks.
<Drup> it doesn't really exist
<Drup> what do you want to do with it ?
<eitan> just stub out parts of my code while I build it
<eitan> there's no bottom value?
<Drup> no, there is no bottom value in OCaml
<eitan> ok, interesting, thanks
<Drup> you can just do "let f x y z = assert false"
<eitan> ahhh...`assert false`, thanks
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<aantron> rgrinberg: perhaps, i havent fully thought it through. maybe a separate opam package is sufficient, and more people maintaining/regularly contributing to lwt that are using some of the packages on a more ongoing basis (lwt_ssl, lwt_glib)
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<aantron> but i won't remove it soon anyway. the goal is to get these modules maintained efficiently
<aantron> so i will be figuring that out
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