adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | Upcoming OCaml MOOC: https://huit.re/ocamlmooc | OCaml 4.03.0 release notes: http://ocaml.org/releases/4.03.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<llamatarianism> hullo
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<Heasummn> When using OUnit2, if a test fails, it throws an ugly exception
<Heasummn> I've provided it a printer, and the exception is formatted using the priner
<Heasummn> I want to catch the exception and pretty print it
<Heasummn> Using a try ... with ... doesn't work for some reason
<Heasummn> Anyone?
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<struk|desk> Heasummn: can you show your code, to humor me?
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<Algebr`> copy`: can you share that?
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<dave24> I just used opam switch and now when I compile a program it says: Error: Files /opt/local/lib/ocaml/unix.cmxa and ~/.opam/4.02.0/lib/ocaml/stdlib.cmxa make inconsistent assumptions over interface String
<dave24> To me it looks like unix was not switched, how can I fix this?
<Algebr`> maybe check that your switch is not out of sync?
<Algebr`> then make clean?
<dave24> how do I check if a switch is out of sync?
<Algebr`> do opam switch, does it say something like "Warning:"
<dave24> no, its happy
<Algebr`> oh that's kinda odd, why is it looking at /opt/local/lib?
<Algebr`> and not your switch's libs
<dave24> I don't know, but I guess that is my problem
<Algebr`> maybe you tried installing ocaml with your system package manager first
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<dave24> Algebr`: yeah, that was it, thanks!
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<Algebr`> The ABI that the native compiler spits out, its then whatever is the C ABI for respective platform and CPU?
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<ggole> No, there's a custom calling convention
<Algebr`> an ocaml specific one, right? How do you reconcile that with what x86 wants?
<ggole> x86 doesn't care, it's just registers and memory.
<ggole> In order for OCaml code to call into C, there is some bridge code, which is caml_c_call or something like that
<adrien> and windows on IA-32 has at least 3 possible ABIs :P
<adrien> rather, calling conventions
<Algebr`> but I thought x86 had its own ABI spec ?
<ggole> Yes, for C compilers to interop with each other
<Algebr`> so there's also a custom calling convention on ARM as well?
<ggole> I think so
<Algebr`> Why not target LLVM IR and hand off this responsiblity to llvm?
<ggole> OCaml has implementation needs (like reserved registers for things like the young pointer) that are quite different from those of a C compiler
<ggole> LLVM doesn't handle calling conventions for you
<Algebr`> i see
<ggole> You tell it what the convention is
<ggole> There are other issues with using LLVM, like getting accurate stack maps, although recently some of those have been addressed
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<Algebr`> so ocaml team needs to maintain custom assembly code per cpu, per platform?
<adrien> of course, there's a native compiler
<ggole> Yeah, that's a necessary component of writing a native compiler and run-time
<adrien> but platform ABIs don't change oten
<adrien> often*
<adrien> Algebr`: x86_64 has an ABI spec, x86 has several ones
<adrien> afaiu the first one relied more on the stack and progressively people wanted to use registers more and more for passing arguments
<Algebr`> adrien: ah, I was looking at x86_64
<Algebr`> and ghc also has this hassle right?
<adrien> and x86_64 has more registers so there wasn't a need to have different ones
<ggole> There were dozens of ABIs in use for x86
<adrien> Algebr`: every native compiler does
<ggole> C compilers pretty much did wtf they wanted
<adrien> (some simply go through GCC however)
<ggole> (And let's just ignore C++.)
<adrien> well and if you have a static function, the C compiler does whatever it wants since there is no need to abide by an ABI since you know all callers at compile-time
<ggole> Not quite, you can pass them around as a function pointer
<Algebr`> so how much of a difference would Linux and Windows be in x86_64 calling convention?
<Algebr`> in practical terms
<adrien> none I think
<ggole> I think the SystemV and MS conventions are very different, but I haven't looked at them for a while
<ggole> There are also other issues, like the utterly different linkers and runtimes
<adrien> on IA-32 they are
<ggole> In order to actually run code you have to match with every moving part, not just the choice of registers.
<adrien> but afair on x86_64 they are the same
<Algebr`> so much work
<Algebr`> so does ocaml save or not save the frame-pointer?
<Algebr`> by default I mean
<ggole> I don't think it uses a frame pointer at all by default
<adrien> ggole: right, my bad
<ggole> AFAIK OCaml frames are fixed size and variable access can be done from the stack pointer
<adrien> yeah, it doesn't by default and there's a branch to do it (or maybe it's merged now)
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<adrien> so that analysis tools can take advantage of it
<ggole> There are some debugging tools which expect a frame pointer
<ggole> Right.
<ggole> perf, I think
<Algebr`> why not enable by default? Performance hit?
<ggole> You lose one register
<ggole> On x86-64 that isn't actually all that terrible, on x86 it sucks a lot more.
<Algebr`> right, was about to say
<Algebr`> so I don't see a flag for it in the man page, why can't it be a compile flag like it is in clang?
<Algebr`> or I guess the right thing is to make a separate switch?
<ggole> Amusingly compilers for x86-64 have advanced such that they don't need a frame pointer any more (and can still support debugging), so now that frame pointers are cheap we don't need them
<ggole> Uh, I think you use an opam switch
<ggole> Yeah, +fp
<companion_cube> the lack of mutual recursion between types and modules is very annoying sometimes :/
<companion_cube> (and no, recursive modules are not an acceptable solution -_-)
<ggole> companion_cube: yep
<ggole> Anything which introduces a type should mutually recurse with type definitions, otherwise you get these strange situations where you can't just use what you have
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<adrien> Algebr`: iirc it is configure-time for the ocaml compiler
<Algebr`> thank you ggole & adrien
<Algebr`> but clang has -f-omit-frame-pointer, why not ocaml compiler too?
<adrien> :)
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<ggole> Not entirely sure. There may be some runtime changes (to the stack walker?).
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<mengu> hi. anyone wanna do a code review for an ocaml n00b?
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<zozozo> mengu: paste your code somewhere and I can take a look if you want
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<mengu> valexey: it looks like it is not verbose and really compiles down to good vanilla js
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<flux> are there any limitations in bucklescript vs. js_of_ocaml?
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<reynir> It's my impression that js_of_ocaml preserves the semantics better
<companion_cube> also it does dead code elimination
<reynir> which one does?
<flux> js_of_ocaml
<companion_cube> ^
<reynir> neat
<flux> but the semantic-preserving was what I was thinking I had heard of
<flux> is it bad? what cases?
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<reynir> It's more of an impression. Things like 1/0 didn't cause an exception and instead produced +infinity IIRC. I think that's been fixed now, though
<reynir> I don't know of any cases that are applicable with current release.
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<flux> well, if they were bugs, then that's just software.. but if there's something 'unfixable' then that'd be interesting :)
<flux> how about tail recursion elimination?
<Drup> tail rec is fine (in both cases, iirc). General tail calls are not. jsoo handles some case with trampolines, I would guess bucklescript does the same
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<mehdib> copy`: looks nice! is your profiler available somewhere?
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<copy`> mehdib: Not yet, I'll make it available soon
<mehdib> thanks!
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<freehck> Hello. I've read that there were the module called Option. But it seems it's not in my distribution, and I can't find it in opam. Where is it? Do somebody know?
<companion_cube> it's probably in Core
<companion_cube> (and in batteries, too)
<freehck> companion_cube: found Core.Option. Thenk you.
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<notdan> Noob question: is there is something like GHC's `:info' for ocaml's toplevel? Given an identifier it shows its type and the module in which it is defined?
<companion_cube> not the module, but if you just type the identifier you'll get its type
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<sh0t> Hi guys: i am trying to use utop. If i do #directory "_build/src";; and then #require "quickcheck";; i don't get complaints but if i reverse the order of those instructions i get: #directory "_build/src";;
<sh0t> Error: Parse error: EOI expected after [expr] (in [expr_eoi])
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<octachron> sh0t: it is a problem with camlp4 that somehow mess up toplevel directives
<sh0t> mm octachron is there any way around this ?
<sh0t> how can i fix that?
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<octachron> sh0t; after some test on my side, can you even eval any expression after "#require "quickcheck""?
<sh0t> octachron, yes i can evaluate basic arithmetic expression for instance...but it seems that the directives #XXX or stuff like open.. have been messed up
<octachron> it seems to be version dependent, which version of OCaml are you using?
<sh0t> 4.03.0
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<octachron> sh0t, the problem looks to be utop specific, it works for me in the standard toplevel with 4.03
<sh0t> thanks octachron and yes it seems to me too that is the case.
<sh0t> i just wanted to use utop because of autocompletion...and cool features like that
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<octachron> there are good reasons, note that it is a configuration problem of ocaml-quickcheck, camlp4 should not be pulled in by "require quickcheck"
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<octachron> sh0t, okay: I have understood the source of the problem, "requiring quickcheck" pulls "optcomp" into to toplevel which is a syntax extension that redefine # as a cpp-like macro start symbol
<sh0t> mmm ok
<sh0t> so i don't have to put # infront?
<octachron> rather you should but you cannot
<sh0t> mmmm i see
<octachron> A "quick" fix may be to fork ocaml-quickcheck and remove the dependency on optcomp
<sh0t> mmmm
<sh0t> i'll try that
<sh0t> but now i resorted to ledit and that's it
<sh0t> :)
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<octachron> (another solution may be to use another quickcheck-like library)
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<sh0t> like what octachron ?
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<octachron> hm, maybe the qcheck part of qtest?
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<rgrinberg> AltGr: does opam still compile on 3.12?
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<sh0t> have you guys ever had the problem of checking recursve data structure with quickcheck? How do you go about stackoverflows?
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<companion_cube> you mean when generating recursive types?
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<AltGr> rgrinberg: no, not anymore, compat was dropped a few months ago
<AltGr> specifying all types for first-class modules was just too cumbersome
<AltGr> (and I had another incompat, don't remember exactly, that triggered the decision)
<AltGr> I await the day when I'll be able to use `match with exception`... :)
<Drup> AltGr: So it's 4.00 now ?
<companion_cube> yay, GADTs!
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<lyxia> sh0t: bound the recursion depth of your generator
<sh0t> yeah lyxia thanks i am reading about this technique thanks!
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<notdan> companion_cube: doesn't work with constructors, unfortunately
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<mengu> hi. let's say i have compiled my project to .native. how can i distribute my executable?
<mengu> what is the best practive?
<mengu> *practice
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<copy`> You can just copy it
<copy`> Only the same shared libraries need to be installed on the target system
<mengu> shared libraries of ocaml or my project?
<copy`> Of the binary
<copy`> You can find them using ldd
<copy`> Some might be loaded dynamically, you can find those using strace
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<mengu> thanks copy`.
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<mengu> copy`: if you have time, i'd appreciate the feedback: https://github.com/mengu/gitignore
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<bruce_r> I have a module type for a functor, something like functor (A : AA) (B : BB) (C : CC), and one types that comes up often in the values of this functor are A(B)(C).t . In a struct I can do module M = A(B)(C) and use M.t, but it doesn't seem to let me do this in the signature, so I end up with lots of A(B)(C),t in my sig, which is not very nice IMO. Is there a way around this please?
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