flux changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml MOOC http://1149.fr/ocaml-mooc | OCaml 4.03.0 announced http://ocaml.org/releases/4.03.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<ocaml585> Kind peeps ... i am just graduating from ocaml-top as my editor when learning ocaml, to something for my first project that might support merlin. Between Atom (easier for me to learn) and Emacs (steeper learning curve), which will give me more of Merlin?
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<natrium1970> I built Bucklescript according to http://bloomberg.github.io/bucklescript, but when I run ‘bsc -I . -I $BSC_LIB -c hello.ml’ I get errors like Fatal error: exception Failure("in File \"config_util.ml\", line 69, characters 60-67, Pervasives.cmj not found ")
<natrium1970> Actually, the first error printed is File "js_implementation.ml", line 87, characters 24-31 Compilation fatal error, stacktrace saved into bsc.dump
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<flux> heh, pretty cool hack regarding version compatibility, do batteries etc. employ this trick? https://github.com/LaurentMazare/tensorflow-ocaml/commit/111b4727cec992bab8bc67c22ccc8c31942ffbb2
<Drup> yeah, that's a classic one
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<Drup> for batteries, it's not going to be sufficient, so you might as well go full cppo :p
<ggole_> What's the let _ = opaque_identity for?
<Drup> ggole_: warning 32, unused declaration
<ggole_> Blerg.
<Drup> Yep
<mrvn> ggole_: a dummy function that doesn't get optimized out
<ggole_> I suppose they want to be compatible with prior versions without the ppx warning disablers?
<Drup> yes
<mrvn> why does flambda optimize "ignore value" away? Isn't the only use case for that to keep value alive?
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<flux> I guess it just follows from the rest of the applications, surely there's no separate code to implement just that..
<mrvn> it must know that ignore has no side effects
<flux> and then if you use opaque_ignore, you lose some other optimization opportunities regarding functions that compute unuseful values
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<mrvn> I like my language to do what I tell it to. :(
<ggole_> ignore doesn't keep values alive?
<ggole_> It just muffles warnings/makes the type checker happy
<flux> mrvn like to make unstated assumptions how compilers do their work :)
<flux> I wonder if there should be some proper way yo do that those pieces of code are going
<flux> even if it's just a function in the gc module doing exactly the same
<flux> or do ephemerals actually do that?
<ggole_> Oh, you meant in that particular bit of code. I see.
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<maker> mm, in these cases where I am linking correctly to the package (in this case, "logs") but ocamlfind doesn't seem to be linking also to the module (in this case, "Logs_fmt"), what shall I do? Does it mean that I miss some optional dependency of the package ("logs")
<maker> it's weird because merlin doesn't even see the error
<flux> well, merlin doesn't read _tags
<maker> the problem it's not about those _tags warning
<flux> what provides Logs_fmt? in any case, it's the linking part that fails, not the compiling. merlin does only compiling.
<maker> flux: oh, right
<flux> so I suppose the logs package has something broken
<flux> are you using 4.03.0?
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<maker> 0.5.0
<maker> herp derp
<reynir> heh
<maker> installed-version: 0.5.0 [4.02.3]
<maker> so I suppose I can try to update
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<maker> 37 to upgrade
<maker> so lol
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<Drup> maker: logs.fmt
<Drup> (for the future, "ocamlfind list | grep -i logs"
<maker> Drup: so what's happening internally, logs has the signature of Logs_fmt but the implementation is in another package "logs.fmt"?
<maker> Drup: thanks!
<maker> no it cannot be the signature mm
<Drup> what happens is that all the cmi are in the same directory, so the typechecker see them all, regardless of packages
<Drup> (this is a very recurrent problem with ocaml packaging)
* maker is uselessly recompiling a boatload of packages
<maker> Drup: oh I see
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<mrvn> ggole_: "fun _ -> ignore x" being alive used to keep x alive. with flambda no more.
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<mrvn> or let x = ... in let res = c_binding_that_use_x in ignore x; res
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<ggole_> An alternative view is that such variables are potential space leaks and should be eliminated where possible.
<mrvn> ggole_: if youz wanted that you wouldn't have ignored it at the end.
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<ggole_> If you need such a facility it shouldn't be ignore, it should be another construct called keep_alive or something.
<mrvn> ggole_: or opaque_identity?
<ggole_> That's a bit different as it returns its argument.
<ggole_> This kind of construct is also useful for benchmarking.
<mrvn> let keep_alive x = ignore (opaque_identity x)
<ggole_> Sure.
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<mrvn> but it's not really what one wants. Usualy you have some C value that depends on ocaml values and you want to tell the GC to keep them alive as long as the C value is without all the stub overhead.
<mrvn> Gc.guard life_guard value
<ggole_> These are all useful things, but I don't think using an ignore idiom for them is a good idea.
<mrvn> Might be better to implement that directly than to wrap it in closures.
<mrvn> ggole_: it's jut what is being used.
<ggole_> Better to give them nice names, documentation, etc
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<mrvn> (fun () -> let t = ref x in ()) could have been used but ingore looks simpler.
<ggole_> I would expect the compiler to be allowed to eat that, too.
<ggole_> But not, say, fun () -> Sys.black_hole x; ()
<mrvn> so far the compiler always did what you wrote. no optimization.
<ggole_> That's because the compiler has been pretty weak until now.
<ggole_> (Maybe "straightforward" would be a more polite way to phrase that.)
<def`> mrvn: or let x = ... in let res = c_binding_that_use_x in ignore x; res
<def`> ^ this case failed for me even before flambda
<ggole_> Once you start to take advantage of inlining, DCE, LICM etc something like a black hole operation becomes useful.
<flux> it really doesn't matter ;) what the implementation is, as long as it's provided by (preferably) the standard library ;)
<flux> but regarding my previous comment, don't ephemerons really bring this kind of functionality?
<mrvn> def`: then you didn't catch the GC moving x to the long term heap.
<flux> "keep x alive as long as y is alive"?
<def`> mrvn: no it is not that, it is that the GC collected the value
<mrvn> def`: it didn't. the ignore kept the binding alive
<def`> "ignore x" is not enough to keep alive in native mode
<def`> mrvn: "OK"
<mrvn> def`: at least it did for me.
<mrvn> native mode, amd64
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<mrvn> flux: any docs on what those are?
<ggole_> Looking at the output for ocamlopt 4.02.1, (fun () -> ignore x; ignore y; ()) does contain slots for x and y
<ggole_> However, if the closure were entered and were not otherwise alive I would not expect x and y to be retained.
<ggole_> Hmm.
<ggole_> def`: were you talking an entry in the closure or the frame table?
<ggole_> *talking about
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<def`> ggole_: mrvn: http://pastebin.com/YZMbvice
<mrvn> flux: An ephemeron with the C value as key and the ocaml values it depends on as value would work. yes.
<def`> ignore x is really ignored by native backend, this simple testcase exhibit the problem. so your code is a buggy (and since it is just collection and not compaction, data is untouched, your C-binding might still work... until some point *)
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<mrvn> def`: you are missing the extra binding
<ggole_> The allocation in camlTest__test_1008 stores x and y.
<ggole_> When this closure is alive, x and y will be alive.
<ggole_> But they are not used other than as arguments to ignore.
<def`> ggole_: yes with a close that's ok
<def`> closure*
<def`> but ignore x alone is pointless.
<ggole_> ...that's what we are talking about though
<ggole_> mrvn was discussing exactly this retaining behaviour of ignore.
<ggole_> Specifically, how it has recently changed (under flambda)
<def`> or let x = ... in let res = c_binding_that_use_x in ignore x; res
<def`> that behavior didn't change
<def`> it used to not work, it still doesn't work
<ggole_> I'm not sure what the story is there.
<def`> that "ignore x" above is useless. And so relying on it for some magic is broken.
<ggole_> Anyway, it seems that ignore is no longer usable for anything at all except ignoring the results of things (which seems fine to me)
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<ggole_> If you want to argue that it should never have been useful by accident, well OK, but there have been a number of such things in OCaml.
<mrvn> anyway, the right thing NOW is "Ephemeron guard value"
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<kobee> Hello, is anyone available for a small question ?
<hcarty1> kobee: Ask away
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<hcarty> kobee: If someone can help they/we will
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<kobee> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/a60a36dd89e249f300a51c3821b20821 . Any idea why I'm getting a syntax error on "else"
<octachron> kobee, you need to factor out your definition of s: "let s = if ... then ... else... in" rather than "if ... then let s = ... in else let s = ... in ..."
<kobee> makes sens. Thank you octachron
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<pierpa> Hello. Can the Bytes module be lifted from a current version and used in 4.01?
<adrien> pierpa: there's a compatibility findlib package
<pierpa> thanks. will look.
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<pierpa> Ok. It works!
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<kobee> Anyone got an idea how to achieve this https://gist.github.com/anonymous/93095b5a2cd1dfd8556cb975ce182da5
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<octachron> kobee, mathematician answer: yes. More seriously, do you have some specific problems?
<Anarchos> what is the link between CAML and the category theory ?
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<mrvn> kobee: you are missing an EOW marker
<mrvn> and what's the int?
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<kobee> int is just to store how many times a word is repeated. I'm getting the list of (char list) from a file. Not sure if I should add EOW
<mrvn> kobee: input [['w';'o';'r';'d']; ['w';'o';'r';'d';'s']]
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<mrvn> kobee: how do you know word is in there?
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<mrvn> kobee: I guess if you count the number of occurances then 0 means not present and >0 means present.
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<kobee> [['h';'i']; ['h';'i']; ['y';'e';'s']]
<mrvn> kobee: where is your problem? A prefix tree without compression is straight forward.
<kobee> hi -> 2 | yes -> 1
<mrvn> kobee: 2 and 1 are your EOW markers then
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<kobee> Not really
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<mrvn> How do I lookup an entry in a CharMap?
<companion_cube> CharMap.find ?
<mrvn> ahh, way down in the interface.
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<kobee> if it makes more sens, a little drawing http://imgur.com/T22sAgR
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<kobee> I'll check that now mrvn. thank you
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