#ocaml on 2016-01-26 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-11-14 15:27 adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml MOOC http://1149.fr/ocaml-mooc | OCaml 4.02.3 announced http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml

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00:58 <eeks_> Hello there, I am having a little trouble with first class modules and locally abstract types.

01:00 <eeks_> Bottom line, I want to write a function that takes a list of first class modules and return one module that handles a list of results.

01:00 <nv_> modules are a compile-time feature, so they're not integrated into the normal type system

01:00 <nv_> functions don't take or return modules

01:01 <nv_> however, you can use camlp4 or ppx extension points to do that kind of thing

01:01 <eeks_> That's not true. Functions can return first class modules.

01:01 <nv_> which would let you put that logic at compile-time

01:01 <nv_> well those are functors when you do that

01:02 <nv_> which basically work on their own type system

01:02 <eeks_> No, I am not parameterizing these modules with other modules.

01:02 <eeks_> (Chapter 10 of real-world OCaml)

01:03 <smondet> nv_: also http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/manual-ocaml/extn.html#sec230

01:03 <eeks_> so basically this is what I have:

01:03 <eeks_> val repRandom : (module Gen with type t = 'a) list -> (module Gen with type t = 'a list) = <fun>

01:03 <eeks_> This is a legit signature.

01:04 <eeks_> The think is: if I implement this with a List.fold, it works.

01:04 <eeks_> If I implement it with a recursive function, so somewhere i would do:

01:04 <eeks_> | hd :: tl -> repRandom tl

01:05 <eeks_> the compiler bitches about (type m) being out of scope

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01:19 <eeks_> Actually I can reproduce it without the first class module thingy

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01:20 <eeks_> http://hastebin.com/kajuyosiqo.ml

01:21 <eeks_> The full error: Error: This expression has type m list but an expression was expected of type m list The type constructor m would escape its scope

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02:01 <teknozulu_> I'm trying to do stuff over a persistent ssh subprocess by calling bash over ssh and writing to stdin. However, with parsing stdout, there is a problem: bash isn't going to send an EOF when whichever command executed through it finishes

02:02 <teknozulu_> One approach would be to make it append something to the end of the result to signify the end, but if something more elegant exists im all ears

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03:22 <xnil> What's the current state of the GC? Is concurrency built in yet, or are we still waiting on OCaml 4.03 first?

03:22 <xnil> If concurrency is a large concern for me, would I be better served by heading over to another language, such as an SML?

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05:25 <smondet> teknozulu_: what I do: my permanent ssh subprocess is started with `ControlPath`/`ControlMaster` options; then I run other ssh processes that uses the same connection (with the `ControlPath`) for each command (it's there and also in other modules ;) https://github.com/hammerlab/ketrew/blob/master/src/lib/process_holder.ml#L155 )

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06:04 <teknozulu_> smondet: cool stuff, I didnt know about multiplexing. however I'm not sure if its what I want, from what I understand it still has to establish a new socket connection for each multiplexed connection. I'm looking to just repeat a single command, so a single connection that runs bash seemed intuitive

06:07 <def`> teknozulu_: it reuses the same network connection

06:07 <def`> everything is multiplexed on the same tcp session

06:07 <def`> at the unix level yes, new stuff happens on both ends

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15:22 <xificurC> hi, I haven't been here for a while, any big syntax/semantic-level changes since 4.02.0?

15:22 <companion_cube> hi!

15:22 <kakadu> Any idea where https://gitorious.org/ocaml-ty/pages/Home could be moved?

15:22 <companion_cube> no, not so far

15:23 <xificurC> hi companion_cube :)

15:23 <companion_cube> ocaml-ty? that was an experiment, wasn't it?

15:23 <kakadu> Maybe

15:24 <xificurC> did the flambda (was it called that?) optimization get included in some release?

15:25 <hcarty> xificurC: It's in the process of being merged in for the 4.03.0 release

15:25 <companion_cube> xificurC: it's incoming

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15:26 <xificurC> I see. What about multicore?

15:26 <kakadu> but my current problem is so weird, that I do not know which Frostmourne should I use

15:28 <hcarty> xificurC: Last I heard a test release is planned post-4.03. It won't be in 4.03.

15:28 <xificurC> I guess I didn't miss much then! :)

15:28 <companion_cube> indeed...

15:28 <hcarty> xificurC: https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/blob/trunk/Changes does a good job of covering what's happened

15:29 <haesbaert> 15:28 < hcarty> xificurC: Last I heard a test release is planned post-4.03. It won't be in 4.03.

15:29 <hcarty> A lot of material was pushed to post-4.03

15:29 <xificurC> oioioiii that's rather long

15:29 <haesbaert> ^^ is that referring to multicore support ?

15:29 <hcarty> haesbaert: Yes

15:29 <haesbaert> oh, awesome

15:29 <xificurC> and 4.03 has a date set?

15:30 <hcarty> I saw early February for creating a format 4.03 branch, release sometime after that

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15:40 <xificurC> that's soon (tm)

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15:42 <companion_cube> let's hope it will rock as much as it promises

15:44 <hcarty> My award for saddest loss from 4.03 goes to the loss of https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/pull/69

15:44 <xificurC> and it will only miss the vast amount of libraries one expects when choosing a new language :(

15:44 <hcarty> I dunno, opam provides a nice base to work from

15:48 <xificurC> is janestreet going to move to ppx from camlp4?

15:48 <companion_cube> they already did

15:48 <companion_cube> or at least, it's underway

15:48 <xificurC> hcarty: maybe you're right

15:49 <xificurC> companion_cube: I opened sexplib github page and still saw campl4

15:51 <hcarty> xificurC: http://opam.ocaml.org/packages/ppx_sexp_conv/ppx_sexp_conv.113.09.00/ and lots of others

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15:54 <xificurC> hcarty: ah ok, it's separate

15:54 <hcarty> Yeah, they're keeping the camlp4 versions (not sure if they'll be actively maintained?) and there's an opam repository PR in place to rename the existing packages to have camlp4-specific names

15:55 <xificurC> it has 0 documentation though :D

15:55 <xificurC> the github README says - For documentation & examples, see: ../../lib/sexplib/README.md

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15:56 <xificurC> that would be interesting to accomplish on a git clone

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15:58 <xificurC> gotta run now, thanks for the chat

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16:31 <reynir> heh

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17:21 <sspi> any good reading tips for configuring ocamlbuild with multiple files?

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17:23 <aantron> what do you mean by configuring? building multiple targets? multiple source files? multiple plugin files?

17:24 <sspi> aantron: multiple source files

17:24 <aantron> generally you dont have to do anything, ocamlbuild automatically compiles the source files your target depends on.. as long as it can find them

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17:28 <sspi> aantron: nevermind I got it - I'm still new to OCaml and wasn't aware of the proper conventions

17:29 <sspi> (I didn't add the capitalized filename in front of the call I was making)

17:29 <aantron> good :)

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17:29 <aantron> yes, this is the module name.. takes a bit of getting used to

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19:26 <kakadu> Let's have a value of some type where some parts are replaced by not yet known variables

19:27 <kakadu> for example, let xxx = [ var1; 2; var3]

19:27 <kakadu> where (var1, var2: int logic

19:27 <kakadu> )

19:29 <kakadu> When we will continue evaluation, we will get real values of var1 and var2 and we will be able to say, for example, let xxx=[1;2;3] and var1 <~ 1 and var3 <~3

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19:30 <kakadu> At the moment is it possible (not type-safe) to iterate over blocks and check field if they seems to be a logic variable

19:31 <kakadu> But If I want it to be typesafe I need to construct from type t a type 'partial_t'

19:31 <kakadu> And use it for unification/deduction

19:31 <kakadu> And this stuff kind of scaries me

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19:38 <xavierm02> Hey. I have two classes (GMenu.menu GMenu.factory and GMenu.menu_shell GMenu.factory) and I'm trying to use them to build a Lablgtk2 menu from a tree using them. It works but I have to duplicate my function to have one for the first layer and then the recursive one because of type errors. Is there some way I could merge both functions ? http://pastebin.com/6VqSfF1A

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19:57 <octachron> xavierm02, it looks like your two functions could be fusioned by adding a polymorphic type annotation

19:58 <octachron> something like "let rec build_menu_content: 'a. (#GMenu.menu as 'a) GMenu.factory -> menu_content -> unit"

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20:10 <xavierm02> octachron: Yup, it works (with menu_shell instead of menu). Thanks :)

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22:16 <lokien_> hey. are there things that haskell can do and ocaml can't? are you able to do all these folds, pattern matching etc?

22:17 <nv_> lokien_: laziness by default enables some things

22:17 <lokien_> because now I'm not sure yet if I want to devote all my spare time to learn ocaml

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22:17 <nv_> like in haskell it becomes a whole lot easier to work with infinite lists and such

22:17 <nv_> but things like folds, pattern matching, etc. are all present in ocaml

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22:18 <lokien_> nv_: but ocaml does have laziness, doesn't it?

22:18 <lokien_> like, easy, real laziness

22:18 <lokien_> not hacky one

22:18 <nv_> yes, just not in the same way

22:18 <nv_> like in Haskell

22:18 <nv_> you can write out any list and by default it is lazy

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22:18 <nv_> in OCaml you have to make it lazy yourself

22:18 <nv_> or just the way functions get evaluated

22:18 <nv_> etc.

22:19 <nv_> it isn't impossible to do it the lazy way, just takes slightly more work in ocaml

22:19 <nv_> at the same time, it's quite likely that 90% of what you'll be doing is going to benefit from strictness/isn't going to benefit from laziness

22:19 <lokien_> pfft, I can live with that, if I get c++ performance back

22:20 <lokien_> thanks nv_, I'll read my books soon

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22:35 <Algebr> almost c++ performance

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22:58 <lokien_> Algebr: iirc, naive ocaml is faster than naive c++. and optimised versions aren't too far from each other

22:58 <lokien_> but I may be wrong

22:59 <companion_cube> well depends on what you do

22:59 <lokien_> by the way, what about ocaml parallelism?

23:00 <lokien_> companion_cube: you mean?

23:01 <companion_cube> for computations with lots of numbers and arrays and vectors, I think "naive" C++ will still be much better

23:02 <lokien_> uh, yeah. like very advanced graphics and such

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23:20 <Algebr> lokien_: this is no way.

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23:21 <Algebr> OCaml will have a big garbage collected runtime compared to C++. I love OCaml no doubt but to say that its on c++ performance parity is not true.

23:22 <foolishmonkey> garbage collecting is often better than naive constructors/destructors

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23:24 <def`> (depends on the program of course... if it features complex control flow, structural sharing, ... OCaml will be hard to beat, if it's highly predictable array transformations, C++ will win)

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23:39 <Algebr> literally walked into Anil and others on the street.

23:40 <Algebr> this world gets smaller and smaller.

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