adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.2 announced http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<gobbledigook> hey guys, how do I use List.sort?
<flux> gobbledigook, I would expect most any OCaml material to sort that out.. jane street core or standard library? if the standard then List.sort compare [1; 2; 4; 3]
<gobbledigook> is compare a function in the standard library?
<dmbaturin> gobbledigook: You need an 'a -> 'a -> int function that returns 1 if first argument is "greater" than the second, zero is they are "equal and -1 if the second is "less".
<dmbaturin> Whatever "greater", "equal", and "less" mean in your case. :)
<dmbaturin> The compare function from pervasives provides intuitive comparison for built-in types.
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<gobbledigook> why doesn't this work?
<gobbledigook> I'm getting syntax error
<dmbaturin> gobbledigook: let rec intersect xs ys = let xs = List.sort compare xs in ...
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<gobbledigook> is giving me the same syntax error
<gobbledigook> I feel like I'm missing something obvious here
<dmbaturin> Yes, the "in" keyword.
<gobbledigook> so I just append "in" to each compare statement?
<dmbaturin> The let-binding syntax is "let <pattern> = <expr> in <expr>".
<gobbledigook> ah yes so it works
<gobbledigook> thanks dmbaturin
<dmbaturin> Therefore, "let a = List.sort compare a in let b = List.sort compare b in match ...".
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<MasseR> gobbledigook: off topic, but thank you. I enjoy seeing people interested in learning. I've been reading #ocaml lastlog for a while, and it's been a pleasure
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<mahem1> You know that you've written too much OCaml when you end you sentences like this;;
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<flux> well, you stop doing it after a while, as usually ocaml programs don't have ;;'s as you only use them in the toplevel. and advanced users just send fragments of code directly from their editor to the toplevel ;).
<flux> I wonder how much fp-heavy ocaml does one need to write to accidentally start writing +. etc
* mahem1 gathers around to hear more stories of the modern new ways of these advanced users;;
<mahem1> Really, OCaml has opened my eyes to see the purism and that intergers and reals are *completely* different philosophical concepts. What idiot would ever think to do such nonsense?
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<mahem1> (Actually, tbh is was the Python Decimal package that made me realize this, but OCaml drove it home.)
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<mahem1> Now, I sit in the back of my stats class and critizise my teacher when she implicitly treats continous variables as integers...
<Drup> flux: well, you need to be an OCaml programmers that uses floats heavily, that's not so common
<octachron> and an Ocaml programmer that simultaneously does not define a module Float = struct let (+) = (+.) ... end for numeric computation
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<dmbaturin> mahem1: My biggest conceptual problem with overloaded arithmetics is not that it usually defaults to integers, but that the default is defined outside of the language.
<mahem1> dmbaturin: What do you mean by "is defined outside of the language"?
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<dmbaturin> mahem1: In SML, overloaded arithmetics is entirely magical. In haskell, you can define your own type classes, but ambiguous type resolution is limited to classes from the standard library.
<ggole> Magical is a bit strong, isn't it? There's a simple rule.
<ggole> The rule is certainly very much a hack, but there isn't much in the way of magic machinery.
<dmbaturin> ggole: No, I mean magical as in you can'y have your own.
<dmbaturin> * can't
<ggole> Ah, that's a fair complaint.
<ggole> (But you could say the same about certain features in OCaml.)
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<flux> soo, how's modular implicits coming up.. :)
<flux> the one thing that'll fix everything!
<flux> except for multicore!
<Drup> ggole: I really would like to eliminate as many as possible
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<ggole> How can you eliminate them? 20 years of OCaml code rely on them existing all over the place. :(
<flux> if everything's custom, then that's more things to understand when reading the code
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<ggole> Are we talking about the same thing? =, <, compare, Hashtbl.hash, etc?
<Drup> ggole: by bringing back the tools to define them inside the language
<dmbaturin> Well, any language is going to have at least some magic in it. I just want as little of it as possible. :)
<ggole> But they would have to have the same signature to keep working. You couldn't turn them into type-classes or similar.
<flux> polymorphic magic functions would work without type level magic already, if there was a way to define them for custom types (in ocaml)
<flux> but that would be too dynamic I suppose.. :)
<ggole> I suppose you could expose a feature to write such "low level" structure-sensitive functions directly in OCaml...
<Drup> ggole: that's ok for me, as long as the magic thing is not the only thing
<Drup> like, for compare, it's fine
<Drup> (for hash .. not really)
<ggole> Hmm.
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* mahem1 is slightly dazed and confused at all of the chatter and believes that it's really alright that we have different functions for adding ints, floats, big_ints, etc...
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<flux> it's workable if you have a few types. now if you have different operators for {s,u}{8,16,32,64}.. fortunately often you can locally work with only one type so local opening of a module helps
<flux> but, if you have a cool type-inferring type system.. then why on earth do I need to keep repeating the types to the compiler?
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<mahem1> I guess that makes sense to just have smarter-type inferrence. And doing that wouldn't cause run-time dynamic-dispatch type of stuff to happen?
<ggole> Inference wouldn't, type class-like machinery would
<ggole> (Except where removed by specialisation, but that has its own costs.)
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<mahem1> I see.
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<orbifx> Does anyone remember an article being mention, on how object orientation should not be used for code structuring? Got the link handy?
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<thizanne> http://paste.awesom.eu/thizanne/CYkt in this code, is there a difference, in the last object, between the commented method and the uncommented one ?
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<thizanne> (double_int and capitalize_var are irrelevant, sorry for the noise)
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<seliopou> Drup: what is this Js.prop thing and how do I get rid of it? :P
<Drup> You just use ##
<Drup> and it will work
<Drup> prop are things you can access with ##
<seliopou> I'm doing `Dom_html.document##body`
<Drup> and it doesn't work ?
<seliopou> I tried `Dom_html.document##body##get` and got a different error
<seliopou> nope doesn't work :/
<Drup> what's the error message ?
<seliopou> OHHHH
<seliopou> nm
<Drup> ah, I know
<seliopou> examples aren't linking with js_of_ocaml.syntax
<Drup> put parens around it :D
<seliopou> oh really?
<Drup> possibly ...
<seliopou> ahah worked
<seliopou> (parens)
<Drup> Yeah
<Drup> It's because "f foo##bar (baz)"
<Drup> is parsed, with jsoo, "f (foo##bar(baz))"
<seliopou> ah, makes sense
<Drup> because fuck camlp4
<seliopou> but not entirely obvious
<seliopou> lulz
<Drup> (mostly)
<Drup> It's solved with the ppx, but, yeah
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<ggole> thizanne: I don't think so. But if plus_to_minus were a class, and something inherited from it and overrode #map, I think there would be a difference.
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<seliopou> Drup: is tyxml part of js_of_ocaml?
<Drup> No
<Drup> It's one of the (optional) dependencies
<thizanne> thanks ggole, I see what you mean
<Drup> seliopou: it's part of ocsigen though :p
<seliopou> hmmm...
<seliopou> i'd like for the library to avoid the "i don't like this dependency so i'm not gonna use it" problem
<seliopou> which seems to happen a bit with ocaml :D
<Drup> what's not to like in tyxml ? :O
<seliopou> and which I may be guilty of myself :(
<seliopou> oh i'm sure it's great
<Drup> I mean, it's pure, it's very thin and it's mostly composed of signatures and functors
<seliopou> but people find reasons
<Drup> bah
<seliopou> i actually really want to use it
<Drup> let them try to rebind d3 by hand
<seliopou> haha
<seliopou> btw figuring out this d3 thing took me a long time
<Drup> they will have fun, I'm sure
<seliopou> like... a year on and off at least
<Drup> seliopou: I can imagine
<Drup> The semantic is highly non trivial
<seliopou> starting with elm
<seliopou> yeah i actually at one point thought to write down redex semantics for it
<seliopou> and then i promtply gave up that dream
<seliopou> like really fast
<Drup> I tried to figure out good general rules for it at some point and gave up. Your arrow approach works quite well
<Drup> (still easy to shoot yourself with enter/select, but we will solve that soon :p)
<seliopou> Drup: anyways, if tyxml is optional to js_of_ocaml, I'd like to keep it optional for d3 as well just so people don't have a reason to complain
<seliopou> but the library should include support for it
<Drup> ok
<seliopou> Wanna just modify #4 with that?
<Drup> not now
<seliopou> sure
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<Drup> seliopou: have you looked at my other ramblings on tyxml ? ^^ '
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<icicled> anyone here use the must+static variant of the compiler via opam ?
<icicled> musl*
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<icicled> I'm trying to install ocurl via `opam install ocurl` with this variant and I get an error regarding the c compiler being unable to find curl/curl.h
<icicled> I was wondering if there were any docs regarding this variant specifically relating to c extensions
<icicled> /usr/include/curl/curl.h exists but the variant's c compiler (via musl-gcc) complains that it can't find the file - thus leading me to believe that its include path is non-standard/elsewhere
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<icicled> any suggestions?
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<icicled> my hunch was correct, the include dir for musl turns out to be /usr/include/x86_64-linux-musl & not /usr/include
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<pilne> when I used opam 1.2.2 to install ocaml 4.02.3 it installed it headless, is there a way to force it to install the version with x11 support? (or at least that is what happened based on the error I got). I found instructions on what to do for a mac, but not for using opam in linux. I am willing to start from a fresh opam init if needed. Thanks in advance.
<pilne> i found instructions for a mac using brew, but I am scratching my head at this for sure
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<def`> so this is on your linux installation? what makes you think it installed without x11 support?
<pilne> i get this error: # File "async_graphics.ml", line 17, characters 8-16:
<pilne> # Error: Unbound module Graphics
<pilne> when i looked it up, it pointed to a site that stated in a mac, this was the result of installing the compiler without x11 support. I was assuming it would the the same/similar for linux
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<def`> pilne: ocamlfind query graphics -l
<def`> shoudl tell you whether graphics is available or ot
<def`> not*
<def`> I assume you are using ubuntu?
<pilne> 14.04
<def`> Ok, you probably just need to install x11 headers
<def`> Maybe just $ apt-get install libx11-dev
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<def`> After that, opam switch reinstall 4.02.3
<pilne> installing those now, and going to investigate the crash that happened right before my cat came running outta the bedroom..... brb
<pilne> ok, so far so good, now installing the rest of the packages reccomended by "real world ocaml"
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<pilne> regardless of if this works or not, thank you for your help
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<pilne> awesome! it worked (:
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<pilne> thank you so very much
<Algebr> Can a labeled argument not be a tuple? ~foo:(thing, bar)
<Algebr> I tried but was having trouble,
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<smondet> Algebr: what do you mean? of course, f ~foo:42
<pilne> def`: thanks again, i'm gonna be on and off for a while, but i defnitely appreciate all your help.
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<Algebr> Okay I forgot to update the mli
<Algebr> smondet: thanks
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<def`> pilne: you are welcome :)
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<nullcatxxx_> what do you guys think on this issue...
<nullcatxxx_> i have tried my best...
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<Drup> nullcatxxx_: damien seems for it, you don't have to do anything
<nullcatxxx_> i went back to that line's git history..
<nullcatxxx_> jacques struggled with it
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<nullcatxxx_> i guess he definitely agrees with me now. he knows how convenient it will be when writing gadt code
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<Bluddy> It looks good to me now. It was a good discussion, and certainly one worth having.
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<Drup> Bluddy: there are no other infix constructor
<Algebr> Where does the build system in the ocaml repo set certain values, like in the seemginyl generated Makefile in ocaml/config or s.h in ocaml/config
<Drup> Bluddy: also, just don't use "LGTM" on a PR to a repository for which you have no power what so ever. It's good to provide your opinion, but you really can't do more, in this case :)
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<Bluddy> hehe ok. I thought it was just a convention to show my approval
<Bluddy> thanks for letting me know
<icicled> Does anyone know how to use cmdliner to output a man page?
<Drup> icicled: --help will always work
<Drup> and it shows a man page
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<icicled> Drup, yes I know it shows a man page, but what about using the man command?
<Drup> you have multiple mode of output for --help, there is an option for that
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<Drup> you just pipe to a file and install that where man will know about it
<icicled> oh!
<icicled> neat
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<icicled> app --help=groff > app.man
<icicled> silly me
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<Algebr> Drup: it would be nice if opam/cmdliner something did this for you
<Algebr> Drup: pretty sure opam also maintains its own set of man pages
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<Drup> I'm not sure how cmdliner alone would do that :)
<Drup> as for opam .. pretty sure it's a one line addition to an install script
<Algebr> Drup: you mean an ad-hoc install string?
<Algebr> script
<Algebr> what's the way to get opam to give me the path for its man pages, opam config env manpath, or somethign like that would be nice
<Algebr> ah, just opam config var man, I guessed and it worked.
<Algebr> although if opam config var gave back a list of valid values, that would be nice too. Maybe an easy PR.
<Algebr>
<Drup> Algebr: "opam config list"
<Algebr> Drup: !!! wat, awesome.
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<Algebr> Is this true. Say I have the same exact logic written in OCaml or I could just write a binding that calls C which implements the same logic. Will the C code always be faster than the equivalent OCaml code?
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