adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.2 announced http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<flux> well, the deprecation mechanism was only introduced quite lately
<flux> perhaps it will work in the future.
<flux> ie. Array.create
<ggole> Why did they deprecate it -_-
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<def`> ggole: the convention is
<def`> - creation function taking a default element are named "make"
<def`> - creation function taking a initialisation function are named "init"
* ggole looks at Hashtbl.create, Queue.create
<def`> :DDD
<def`> I just repeat what I have heard, I don't say its consistent (after all, that's the standard lib)
<ggole> Stack.create! Everything mutable is called create!
<ggole> Yeah, fair enough. I do find it irritating though.
<def`> you don't have too look too far (other modules), … Array.make_float
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<ggole> Buffer.create, Weak.create
<ggole> But not Array.create -_-
<ggole> JUST PICK ONE
<def`> :')
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<flux> indeed, someone might say it would be reasonable to first make the rest of the interface uniform and only then deprecate the old..
<flux> but I bet someone somewhere was just itching to make use of the new decrecated-feature ;-)
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<gpietro> ggole, I am trying to read your file on github...i have problems with the syntax I think:
<gpietro> type 'a arith = AInt : int arith | AFloat : float arith what does this exactly declare?
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<gpietro> it's not clear the annotation after : , why do I need 'a if I don't use it?
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<kakadu> it seems it is called GADTs
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<gpietro> yeah Kakadu it's what I am trying to learn
<gpietro> now i understand what I asked before :)
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<flux> gpietro, you don't need 'a if you don't use it, you can replace it with _
<gpietro> yeah flux :) thanks
<gpietro> I am tryin to write a pretty print for data of type _ arith, something like: let pprintA a = match a with | AInt -> printf "AInt" | AFloat -> printf "AFloat"
<gpietro> but i get an error
<gpietro> is there something obious i am not getting?
<flux> gpietro, you need to make that function explicitly polymorphic re. the gadt argument
<flux> let pprintA : type a. a arith -> unit = fun a -> match a with | AInt -> printf "AInt" | AFloat -> printf "AFloat"
<flux> another kind of implementation where you actually make use of the gadt:
<flux> let add : type a. a arith -> a -> a -> a = fun a -> match a with | AInt -> (+) | AFloat -> (+.)
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<gpietro> mmm I guess I am having problems already with the syntax...
<gpietro> are u giving ocaml type annotations to ease the whole pocess?
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<flux> the polymorphism of gadts cannot be inferred, so it needs to be annotated
<gpietro> oh ok.
<gpietro> flux is there some tutorial you would suggest on these things? Not the standard ocaml guide cause i read it already...
<flux> gpietro, my suggestion is the links from reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/ocaml/search?q=gadt
<flux> gpietro, also writing (trying to write) gadt-based code :)
<gpietro> :) thanks flux. And yeah I am trying to do that too :)
<flux> actually there seems to be links to other reddits as well in that search. https://www.reddit.com/r/ocaml/search?q=gadt&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all
<flux> though perhaps the other links are useful as well, I haven't read them
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<gpietro> is it possible to have in a mly file
<gpietro> an polymorphic starting point of the grammar?
<gpietro> /usr/bin/ocamlyacc: e - the start symbol 'stmts' has a polymorphic type
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<gpietro> can't i something like: %type <'a Ast.expr> stmts in a .mly file?
<gpietro> because if I fix 'a to int or to something else then the whole point is missed i think
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<flux> my guess is 'no', as the documentation never mentions the word polymorphic
<flux> and neither does the menhir documentation
<flux> so you're out of luck.
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<flux> maybe some dynamic typing approach would help here.
<ggole> You'll probably need an existential wrapper there
<ggole> type any_expr = Expr : 'a expr -> any_expr
<ggole> (For reasons beyond just .mly having trouble with polymorphism.)
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<gpietro> mmm
<gpietro> ggole, should i write that in the .ml;y?
<ggole> Where you defined your expression type
<ggole> Since you're likely to need it elsewhere
<gpietro> oh
<gpietro> sorry ggole can you please explain why would I need that?
<ggole> You need some way to say "this expression has a type, but I don't know what it is"
<flux> but he does know the type as I understand it..
<flux> I'm not sure how one would create 'a typed parsers though
<flux> you need to pass in some constructor functions or other parameters, right?
<ggole> If you are parsing arbitrary expressions from a file/string/whatever, you don't know what their type is
<ggole> So what type would you give the parsing function?
<gpietro> well i am probably being very naive...but if i lex the INT token then i want it to be an int expression...
<gpietro> if i parse the FLOAT token than i want it to be a float expression
<gpietro> if i have 0 + 0 then since the first 0 is an int the whole expression should be as well
<gpietro> 0 + 0.0 shouldn-t parse...
<ggole> Well, you won't be able to construct such a tree: with GADTs the type system will force you to be type correct
<ggole> The question is how to type the parse function
<ggole> What you can't do is state the type in terms of the type of the source, like this: val parse : 'a source -> 'a expr
<ggole> Because source files are dumb untyped data
<gpietro> but then how do people do these kind of things?
<gpietro> if i give you:
<ggole> You might think "well, how about source -> 'a expr", but that isn't right: it would allow the caller of the parser to decide the type at which to use the expression
<ggole> This is why you need an existential wrapper
<gpietro> mm
<ggole> (This is all part of the fun of programming with GADTs.)
<flux> soo, how do you get the value out of such a type?
<ggole> You write a function that is polymorphic in the type variable
<ggole> eg, eval
<ggole> (If you want to pull out a specific type you can do that, of course partially.)
<flux> so how does an eval function for type t = A: 'a -> t look like?
<ggole> let rec eval : type a . a expr -> a = ...
<flux> hmm, but that should mention the type any_expr?
<_obad_>
<_obad_>
<ggole> Well, you would use eval after unwrapping the any_expr
<_obad_> sorry about the blank lines. ocaml ranked last by ieee at #48 with a score of 0.0 and described as
<_obad_> "An object-oriented language with an emphasis on supported software reliability."
<ggole> (Frequently you need another existential or polymorphic function to *use* that value: again, that's all part of the fun.)
<flux> ok, got it, thanks :)
<gpietro> i want to have fun too!
<gpietro> haha
<ia0> Is it normal if I get "Your request can't be satisfied: No package matches js_of_ocaml." when I do "opam install js_of_ocaml.2.6"?
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<ia0> "opam install js_of_ocaml" installs js_of_ocaml.2.5
<ia0> while "opam show js_of_ocaml" shows that version 2.6 is available
<kakadu> ia0: maybe you need newer compiler for 2.6?
<flux> ggole, I think it couldn't be done for the type I suggested, type t = A: 'a -> t ?
<ggole> Yeah, there's no (principled) way to handle such a type
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<ggole> More complete example: https://gist.github.com/64b299ae55fd25f843e4
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<mrvn> https://github.com/mrvn/caramel has a fully/strictly typed scanner and parser using GADTs.
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<dsheets> ia0, what version of opam?
<ia0> opam 1.2.0
<ia0> ocaml 4.02.3
<ia0> opam repository 03d8fb7
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<dsheets> ia0, do you have aspcud or another external solver installed? what os are you on?
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<Drup> (just pastebin the result of "opam config report")
<dsheets> ia0, Drup's got a good suggestion
<dsheets> can't remember which version got the report
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<ia0> Ubuntu 14.04
<ia0> I don't think I have aspcud
<ia0> ok... it works with aspcud installed...
<ia0> thank!
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<Unhammer> ocsigenserver.opt: ocsigen:main: Fatal - While loading /home/unhammer/.opam/4.02.1/lib/ocsigenserver/extensions/ocsipersist-dbm.cmxs: Unix.Unix_error(Unix.ECONNREFUSED, "connect", "")
<Unhammer> anyone know what this one is?
<Unhammer> ocsigenserver.opt fails on first /GET
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<adrien> it depends on a server that isn't started?
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<MercurialAlchemi> or firewalled, maybe
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<noze> so, does ocamlbuild's -j actually do anything?
<Unhammer> I don't even use persistence that I know of
<adrien> noze: yes! but ocamlbuild has troubles finding out what can be built in parallel
<noze> adrien: can i help?
<Unhammer> waat
<Unhammer> ok that was ugly; I had to rm /usr/local/var/data/myproject/ocsipersist/socket
<Unhammer> (noticed it was trying that one from passing -V to ocsigenserver.opt)
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<adrien> noze: it's an issue which comes from its design unfortunatelyu
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<noze> or lack thereof :]
<noze> thanks for the info adrien
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<Drup> there is clearly a design in ocamlbuild
<Drup> the quality and merit of this design can be questioned, but there is clearly one.
<Algebr> Can I expect compare to work exactly the same for aliased types? ie type thing = string
<Drup> compare works on the runtime reprsentation, so, yes
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<Algebr> also true for =, correct?
<Drup> yes
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<MercurialAlchemi> ccube's gen is really pure goodness
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<MercurialAlchemi> you can transform to your heart's content without worries
<MercurialAlchemi> of course, you can also transform your way to write-only code this way...
<Drup> MercurialAlchemi: as cherry on the cake, it's going to benefit really well from flambda
<MercurialAlchemi> cool
<MercurialAlchemi> still working on this game, but I gave on the idea of open records
<MercurialAlchemi> I stay with my "column store" made of maps
<^elyse^> OCaml is nice.
<^elyse^> I should reuse it.
<MercurialAlchemi> s/gave/gave up/
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* MercurialAlchemi looks at the api of cmdliner with dismay
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<adrien> :D
<MercurialAlchemi> ok, it's really flexible, but uuuugh
<Drup> but, but, applicative functors !
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<ggole> You mean, it's really flexible *therefore* uuuugh?
<MercurialAlchemi> well, let's put it that way
<MercurialAlchemi> it's a good way to make sure you don't have too many newbies around
<MercurialAlchemi> I'm sure the errors from the compiler are really helpful, too
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<MercurialAlchemi> it makes me think of a comic I'd do if I could draw comics
<MercurialAlchemi> it would go like that
<MercurialAlchemi> "Perl: it doesn't work but you don't understand why"
<MercurialAlchemi> "Haskell: it works but you don't understand why"
<MercurialAlchemi> (and when it doesn't work, god help you)
<Drup> Perl: It runs, it doesn't work and I don't understand why
<Drup> Haskell: It doesn't even compile, and I don't understand why
<Drup> fixed that :]
<MercurialAlchemi> :)
<MercurialAlchemi> you also have: Haskell: it works, but only in the future due to laziness
<MercurialAlchemi> OCaml: it works, but only on one core
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<octachron> or "Haskell: it works, you don't understand why. There is a memory leak, you really don't understand why"
<MercurialAlchemi> Haskell: it works, but you can't refactor it
<tane> refactoring is just not necessary. it all works out of the box :)
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<Drup> MercurialAlchemi: refactoring is not a big deal in haskell most of the time
<MercurialAlchemi> depends how you've setup your monad stack and if you wrote enough boilerplate that removing or adding a layer won't result in a nuclear explosion
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<Algebr> say you have type a = {mutable name: string} type b = {name : string}. Can one be used for another? Like in module signatures like ```with a := b```
<Drup> No.
<rgrinberg> Drup: do you have ppx_import installed?
<Drup> worst case, it's one opam install away
<Drup> why ?
<Drup> (hi, how were the holidays ? :p)
<rgrinberg> mind trying to load it with merlin for me?
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<rgrinberg> it was only an irc holiday :)
<Drup> it seems to work
<rgrinberg> :/ fails to load for me
<Drup> You seems to have merlin setup issues.
<rgrinberg> Drup: do you run master or release?
<Drup> huum, release currently
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<rgrinberg> let's see if downgrading helps
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