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<companion_cube>
gasche: would it work to have a "private" annotation on mutable fields of a record, so that the field can be read only ?
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<ggole>
private types allow that (but only for every part of the record).
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<Drup>
does it ? how do you do it ?
<ggole>
type foo = private { ... }, I think
<Drup>
but does it allow to read the content then ?
<ggole>
Yeah
<ggole>
You can't create one though
<ggole>
Need a constructor for that
<Drup>
huuum
<Drup>
ok, it seems to work, I will try that
<ggole>
Something like module Test : sig type foo = private {mutable foo: int;} val create_foo: int -> foo end = struct type foo = {mutable foo: int;} let create_foo x = { foo = x } end
<ggole>
You can match, get fields etc on a foo but can't mutate the field (except internally to Test).
<Drup>
I think it suits my need, I will have to test a bit
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<companion_cube>
ggole: I think you need to have the same mutability annotations
<ggole>
In that example I do?
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<companion_cube>
ohhhhhhhhhh
<companion_cube>
it's already the case ♥
<companion_cube>
that is awesome
<ggole>
You can't do it per field though
<ggole>
But yeah, private types are nice
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<companion_cube>
private types are just perfect for hashconsing
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<maurer>
Hey, I've got a stack trace that cosists of only
<maurer>
Fatal error: exception Failure("hd")
<maurer>
Raised at file "pervasives.ml", line 20, characters 22-33
<maurer>
then a bunch of lines of Called from file "map.ml", line 175, characters 19-22
<maurer>
any idea how to figure out where _I_ actually called this?
<companion_cube>
if you want a stacktrace, run you code with OCAMLRUNPARAM=b
<maurer>
companion_cube: that is how I got the stack trace
<maurer>
companion_cube: problem is it's truncated
<companion_cube>
(and compile in debug mode)
<companion_cube>
you need everything to be compiled in debug mode
<companion_cube>
also, List.hd is dangerous ;)
<maurer>
companion_cube: I didn't call it
<maurer>
It's inside map.ml somewhere
<companion_cube>
you mean, in Core? there's no List.hd in the standard OCaml's map.ml
<maurer>
Look, I dunno, the stack trace says map.ml called it
<mrvn>
# List.hd;;
<mrvn>
- : 'a list -> 'a = <fun>
<mrvn>
sure there is
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<mrvn>
maurer: did you call it with a closure containing List.hd?
<maurer>
mrvn: I mean, i assume I must have
<maurer>
but I use Maps in a _lot_ of places
<companion_cube>
mrvn: not in map.ml
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<adrien>
mrvn: companion_cube means that OCaml's Map doesn't call List.hd :)
<adrien>
maurer: typically and because of higher-order functions, I just check every step given by the stacktrace but as companion_cube mentionned, you need your libs compiled with -g
<adrien>
but first, you should have a file called "map.ml" and depending on the libraries you use, only you can know where it's from
<adrien>
libraries and compiler version
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<maurer>
adrien: I figured out what's going on at this point. Evidently Marshal assumes _zero_ things change about the software, not just "the datatype doesn't change"
<Drup>
oh, you can change your software as long as you don't change the datatype
<maurer>
Drup: Hm. I explicitly did not change that datatype
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<maurer>
Drup: but my old saved data won't load
<maurer>
and my new stuff will
<maurer>
Or specifically, _some_ of my old saved data won't load
<mrvn>
should only care about the type
<Drup>
by "the datatype" I mean the whole representation
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<Drup>
so if a library which you are using the type in your marshalized stuff change it's internal representation, you are screwed indeed.
<maurer>
Drup: If I added functions to modules which define the datatype, would that cause a problem?
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<Drup>
no
<maurer>
hm
<Drup>
I'm not sure about compiler internals, it probably have an effect at some point, but the last version didn't change anything on this aspect
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<mrvn>
the memory representation of types hasn't changed in ages afaik.
<adrien>
maurer: Marshal is indeed pretty much a dump of memory
<adrien>
it's nice because it has 'a -> string
<adrien>
and back but it's way too barebones and unsafe
<adrien>
something like sexplib, protobuf, yojson, atd(gen)/biniou (and many others) are way better for production
<adrien>
I guess the main reason for Marshal is that camlp4 uses it to "talk" to the compiler
<adrien>
but in that context, it makes sense
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<maurer>
adrien: I mean, I wanted to do something similar to just dumb read/show serialization from haskell
<maurer>
adrien: in that I have a pretty much done, but complicated process that takes a long time and generates a data structure
<maurer>
and then some stuff I'm still figuring out to do after that
<maurer>
so I wanted to checkpoint the big daylong analysis thing
<adrien>
one of the binary protocols sounds better: atdgen/biniou or protobuf or ...
<adrien>
Marshal is nice for experimentation but you need to remember to drop it (I've already done the mistake several times)
<maurer>
the whole reason I was using marshal is that I don't have time to write a proper serialization protocol
<maurer>
just like you use read/show when you don't have time, not as "good" solutions
<avsm>
just add bin_io and you get serializers generated
<dramas>
i think you overestimate my understanding of the use of () here
<dramas>
this is um
<dramas>
day 3 of ocaml hacking for me
<dramas>
so i have while for for while
<dramas>
and it i keep tracking the done's up in my editor to make sure i've got enough
<asmanur>
so ? your code is indented so it's easy enough to delimit the loops
<dramas>
whereas vim normally shows me where they are
<dramas>
asmanur: pretend this is not so easy for me.
<dramas>
asmanur: because i would not be asking if it were.
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<bernardofpc>
dramas: your problem is that the pair "for ... do ... done" is not editor-matche ?
<asmanur>
would that be clearer if the syntax were while () { } and likewise for for
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<dramas>
bernardofpc: precisely
<dramas>
asmanur: yes because vim creates little blocks of pipes for me so i can more easily see what's going on with specific characters for creating scope
<asmanur>
well you can write while ... do ( ) if you want
<dramas>
thank you.
<bernardofpc>
maybe you can even put the condition between paren's
<asmanur>
but otherwise I guess you need to hack your editor to have what you want
<bernardofpc>
(but I guess this is not so needed, nor useful)
<asmanur>
bernardofpc: that does not help match the end of the while
<Drup>
dramas: can't you do that with the indentation ?
<Drup>
isn't it visually enough ?
<bernardofpc>
let primes = Hashtbl.create n + 1 in -> you need parens in there, I guess
<dramas>
Drup: maybe i smoked too much grass as a kid and i'm getting senile, or maybe i havent had enough sleep, or maybe the font is too small, or something, but no, i'm having trouble tracking that in my own head today and i'd prefer vim did it for me.
<bernardofpc>
you could change identation to 4 spaces, that may help
<dramas>
yeah that is true
<dramas>
i generally have lots of long statements because i prefer to do that in perl
<Drup>
4 spaces indentation is terrible, tbh
<dramas>
but i have lots less horizontal stuff going on in ocaml and much more vertical
<bernardofpc>
you see
<dramas>
also, bernardofpc, i am surprised to see you not remark on the change of that algorithm
<bernardofpc>
usually, ocaml code will have tons of functions so very rarely you will write such stuff as that many fors
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<bernardofpc>
I'm stioll wondering at the use of a Hashtbl there, tbh
<dramas>
so at present the code from yesterday's been running for 1600 minutes finding a solution to a problem
<dramas>
and i suspect it it wrong if it will ever return
<bernardofpc>
also, you should learn the "incr" operation, if you're using that much mutability
<dramas>
unless hashes are extraordinarily expensive, it seemed better to count the primes on the way up, break when i find it, and just return the highest prime i'd found.
<bernardofpc>
nah
<bernardofpc>
well, why not
<dramas>
but maybe i am forcing my perlishness on this problem and being stubborn
<Drup>
dramas: you are probably
<dramas>
it is a habit. :/
<bernardofpc>
well, usually, you should try to write the math (independent of language) before the code
<dramas>
heh
<bernardofpc>
and prove all the stuff inside
<bernardofpc>
(bounds, etc)
<dramas>
i did. but i wrote it in perl.
<dramas>
it proved to be useless for the ocaml
<bernardofpc>
I see
<bernardofpc>
yeah
<bernardofpc>
extract the math
<bernardofpc>
this will not change with your language :D
<dramas>
sorry, i've been hacking perl for a living since like 1997. it just gets stuck in your brains.
<bernardofpc>
I know that
<bernardofpc>
(for C)
<dramas>
yeah, i reckon
<bernardofpc>
(but I learnt math before, and I do math for a living)
<dramas>
ah
<dramas>
so i failed out of geometry in high school. that's the highest math i ever took.
<dramas>
the reason i am able to do what i do for a living is i can pull in code other people have written and use their api's
<Drup>
bernardofpc: that's not exactly true
<Drup>
bernardofpc: the idioms can make an algorithme looks quite different in a langage or another
<bernardofpc>
well, look different does not mean that the same math is underlying
<bernardofpc>
and of course you can have a terrible one in <lang_1> and a perfect in <lang_2> because you wrote the right thing in the secodn, but not on the first
<dramas>
i need to run to the bank gentlemen. thanks. i'll be back soonish.
<Drup>
bernardofpc: basic example, recursive factorial vs loop. It "looks" different, but it's really the same. You may argue this a bit superficial though (and you will be a bit right)
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<dramas>
how do i pass an anonymous function
<Anarchos>
dramas (fun x -> x)
<dramas>
i'm using Hashtbl.iter fun (n:int) -> stuff hashname
<dramas>
so put the function in parens?
<companion_cube>
yes, and omit the argument type
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<dramas>
ok
<companion_cube>
Hashtbl.iter (fun key value -> ....) tbl
<Anarchos>
companion_cube he can left the argument type
<dramas>
Anarchos: "she"
<bernardofpc>
well, she could
<bernardofpc>
but then the type is not correct
<companion_cube>
Anarchos: yes, but it's useless in most cases
<Anarchos>
companion_cube sure :)
<bernardofpc>
(first argument is the function, second the table)
<dramas>
mk, i think i have syntax issues elsewhere.
<bernardofpc>
explicitly annotated types are (mostly) not needed in OCaml, though
<dramas>
this again. :/
<dramas>
bernardofpc: i am doing better with seeing my scoping now that i have had coffee and eaten something
<bernardofpc>
but if you're learning, this can help find mistakes earlier because the typechecker will complain sooner
<dramas>
:)
<dramas>
also that anonymous function thing feels very R-ish
<dramas>
at least the notation does
<bernardofpc>
R as in S ?
<dramas>
yes
<dramas>
well, as in R, the descendent of S
<bernardofpc>
sure
<companion_cube>
it's quite common for functional languages
<bernardofpc>
my bet is that they stole it from lisp :D
<dramas>
golly, it's been a couple years since i wrote R code
<dramas>
no wonder i am so rusty on this
<bernardofpc>
anyway
<bernardofpc>
I tried to understand the purpose of your hashtable, and failed
<dramas>
oh
<dramas>
well, for one it only contains the primes
<dramas>
rather than the primes and not-primes
<companion_cube>
bernardofpc: yes, only the syntax is different
<dramas>
and since i am just picking an arbitrarily numbered prime, i am just asking the hash table for that prime
<dramas>
bernardofpc: the assignment being "find the 10001th prime."
<dramas>
it's a project euler thing.
<bernardofpc>
oh
<bernardofpc>
another one using PE to learn OCaml
<dramas>
so i don't need like, a big list of primes.
<dramas>
bernardofpc: is there a lot of that?
* bernardofpc
<dramas>
oh
<bernardofpc>
and probably other people as well
<dramas>
may i pm?
<bernardofpc>
no, probably this chan is better
<dramas>
ok
<bernardofpc>
people here do know OCml
<dramas>
this would not be about ocaml.
<bernardofpc>
oh
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<dramas>
eek, this sounds dire: Stack overflow during evaluation (looping recursion?).
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<companion_cube>
dramas: you forgot a terminal case in a recursion, most likely
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<dramas>
i do not know what a terminal case is, and I am not intentionally recursing :)
<companion_cube>
did you write a recursive function?
<dramas>
not that i am aware of
<companion_cube>
did you get a proper stacktrace this time?
<companion_cube>
if you did not write a recursion function, it must be one from the standard library
<dramas>
how do i get such?
<dramas>
that is all it gave me as an error
<companion_cube>
OCAMLRUNPARAM=b ./my_program
<dramas>
huh
<dramas>
apparently it was just stuck in a loop and did that
<dramas>
to my knowledge there was no recursion
<companion_cube>
you mean, a while loop?
<dramas>
yep
<companion_cube>
this is weird, a loop shouldn't consume the stack
<dramas>
is there a benchmark or something module so that i may profile this code?
<companion_cube>
well first you have to make it work
<dramas>
oh
<dramas>
the reason i know it was that while loop is i had not incremented my counter
<companion_cube>
there are benchmarking libraries on opam though
<dramas>
and when i fixed that it no longer exploded
<companion_cube>
dramas: if you have a counter, you might prefer a for loop
<dramas>
oh, there is an opam. that is comforting.
<dramas>
yeah i would prefer a for loop but it's not as flexible as other for's
<companion_cube>
opam is a package manager for installing ocaml packages
<dramas>
i don't have for assignment ; condition ; expression
<companion_cube>
dramas: the most flexible in ocaml is a recursive function, though :)
<dramas>
yeah i surmised
<dramas>
i am a cpan author, it seemed it would be the same
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<dramas>
so my new function with a hash instead of an array is way, way faster
<dramas>
but provides me with the wrong number. :)
<dramas>
which is not even prime!
<dramas>
how useful!
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<companion_cube>
the joy of debugging.
* companion_cube
uses a mix of printf and assert to debug, usually
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<dramas>
yes this is what i am doing
<dramas>
i have become much more comfortable with the syntax in the last couple days
<dramas>
for the most part it nowmakes sense, it' sjust a matter of knowing which pieces and parts i need
<dramas>
and getting my stinkin logic correct :)
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<companion_cube>
of course, you need to practice!
<dramas>
yep. :)
<companion_cube>
project euler is quite nice for this purpose
<dramas>
no, $self, 42 is not prime. it is otherwise an interesting number though.
<dramas>
companion_cube: yes, agree. i was originally pretty frustrated with it.
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<dramas>
time for tacos, back later
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<companion_cube>
see ya
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<Drup>
I disagree with the "project euler is nice to learn a language"
<jzelinskie>
+1!
<Drup>
because you will naturally tend to use the paradigms you already now instead of using correct ones
<Drup>
and math stuff tend to put you on the imperative style anyway
<jzelinskie>
also, i find lots of the problems to not be super practical
<Drup>
dramas: btw, that's presicely what you are doing ;)
<jzelinskie>
solving math problems won't let you learn about server design etc
<Drup>
dramas: you are using the imperative features of ocaml, it's ok, but you are not actually learning functional paradigms that much.
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<jzelinskie>
i find reading the standard library of a language can often be useful for learning idioms, depending on how high-level the standard library is
<jzelinskie>
I'm not quite sure how useful reading the C++ STL would be
<jzelinskie>
unless you already knew C++ well
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<dramas>
Drup: well, i am starting to take a liking to the language
<dramas>
Drup: so likely i will get into the other parts
<dramas>
but right now, i have an assignment to turn in
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<dramas>
need to be familiar with the syntax, and i will take that as progress before mastery or full fluency or whichever
<Drup>
oh, if you have assignment and all that stuff, ok
<dramas>
you gotta know how ot ask where the bathroom is before you can uh, i don't have anything to finish that metaphor with
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<Drup>
dramas: I still think you should follow a book/tutorial of some sort, lot's of them are avaible
<dramas>
i will likely do that if i get past this phase of the work
<Drup>
ok :)
<dramas>
hm
<dramas>
i have a value that is not being incremented in a for foo do loop
<Drup>
more precisely ?
<dramas>
let me just paste it. but i would like to know why this is.