gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.12.0 http://bit.ly/aNZBUp
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<thelema> gildor: any chance you could upgrade odn to work with the newer type-conv?
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<gildor> thelema: p(upgrade odn, t) -> 1 when t -> +inf ;-)
<gildor> thelema: FYI, I upgraded one my computer to 3.12 2 days ago, so I am thinking about that
<gildor> thelema: right now, I am busy with _oasis edition on the website
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<joelr> good morning
<joelr> how do you do mktemp in ocaml?
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<joelr> darn, it's in the Filename module
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<Kakadu> Hello man! Can you help me to find possible themes for graduation works in INRIA (about OCaml, of course). I want to compare themes with SPbSU..
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<NaCl> gildor: I can't seem to convince oasis that ocaml-gettext is installed on my system
<NaCl> gildor: any idea of what I could be missing here?
<pdhborges> NaCl: do you use ocamlfind?
<NaCl> it's whatever oasis is using.
<NaCl> oasis uses oasis. :P
* NaCl asks ocamlfind
<pdhborges> XD
<pdhborges> NaCl: ocamlfind list
<pdhborges> is gettext on that list?
<NaCl> yup
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<pdhborges> :|
<NaCl> oh, I'm dumb
<NaCl> it has to be enabled explicitly
<NaCl> gildor: the conditional check for ocaml-gettext doesn't actually check if it's on thet system. :/
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<adrien> am I missing something or is godi's ocaml-src package still not able to use svn? and is instead stuck on cvs?
<gildor> NaCl: the check done for ocaml-gettext in oasis is a bug since the beginning
<gildor> NaCl: I will end up making ocaml-gettext mandatory, which would simplify the whole process
<NaCl> ah, alright
<gildor> but after having enabled oasis in ocaml-gettext
<NaCl> which I see hasn't been done yet
* NaCl probably should submit his ocaml packages to his distribution's maintainers
<NaCl> hey adrien
* adrien hides
<NaCl> does the graphics portion of lablgtk make calls to the graphics libraries themselves?
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<adrien> NaCl: no, no mention of Graphics anywhere in the source either
<NaCl> no, I mean like libpng
<adrien> directly, I don't think so; but through gtk+, of course
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* NaCl wonders why it's trying to link against libpng14
<adrien> you mean against "14" or against any version?
<NaCl> gcc fails to link against -lpng14
* NaCl ...facepalms
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<adrien> bwahahahahahahahahaha
<adrien> I think Gerd made a mistake with his own package in godi =)
* NaCl wonders how camlimages can compile on a system without the png devel packages
<adrien> can't it disable png support,
<NaCl> yes
<NaCl> ... static linking
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* NaCl headscratches
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* NaCl wats
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<NaCl> adrien: it's lablgtk
<NaCl> adrien: linking against libpng14
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<oxman> Hello
<oxman> Does camel case naming come from the caml language ?
<thelema> oxman: no
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<oxman> ok thanks :)
<adrien> comesFromTheHumpsInTheString (that's a mutant caml with many many humps)
<NaCl> camlCaseHasHumpsThatIsWhyItIsCalledSo
<NaCl> camelCaseHasHumpsThatIsWhyItIsCalledSo
<NaCl> adrien: lulz
<adrien> so, anyone using ocaml svn from godi? I'm under the impression it's actually mostly broken (it applies patches to the checkout)
<NaCl> adrien: problem is that cairo depends on libpng14
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<NaCl> uh
<NaCl> yet the cairo development package doesn't depend on libpng14
<NaCl> adrien: it wouldn't happen to be the case that lablgtk is a bit agressive with its linker flags
<NaCl> would it?
<adrien> no idea, I gave up trying to understand (actually "modify") lablgtk's build system
<NaCl> how about "redo"?
<adrien> waiting for oasis 0.3.0 and pkg-config support :P
<NaCl> ffs
<adrien> (there's a work-around to get the same functionality right now however, but noone has changed the build system so far)
<NaCl> gildor: need pkg-config bindings or something? :P
<NaCl> because I'll work on them
<NaCl> adrien: ^
<NaCl> I want to contribute something!
<NaCl> to something!
<adrien> the work-around is quite simple but I haven't tried it yet (maybe very soon)
<NaCl> work-around?
* NaCl rages
<thelema> adrien: oasis isn't magic.
<NaCl> it sure looks like it
* NaCl is a caveman
<adrien> caveman with a beard and a club?
<NaCl> ya
<NaCl> adrien: is there a need for an ocaml pkg-config?
<adrien> it's called ocamlfind ;-)
<NaCl> no, I mean like finding libraries with pkg-config
<NaCl> C libraries
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<adrien> ah, hmmm, can't say :P see with gildor what's needed
* NaCl performs a gildor summoning spell
<thelema> well, there's a bit of need for pkg-config in ocaml build systems
<NaCl> that's what I was going for
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<gildor> NaCl: you summon me ?
<NaCl> gildor: need bidings for pkg-config?
<gildor> basically, pkg-config should be used to get cflags/cclib and then feed them back to the build system
* NaCl looks
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<NaCl> gildor: would there be any use for a library that can read pkg-config files themselves, instead of making calls to the C program?
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<gildor> NaCl: concerning oasis itself, I think it should use pkg-config C program directly. Being able to read .pkg files, would mean to embed even more code in setup.ml (which is already big)
* NaCl doesn't know squat about where to begin with this
<adrien> hmmm, .pc files are mostly simple but they have some bad corner cases iirc
<gildor> NaCl: on a long term view, it should be possible to replace the external C program by an OCaml one, but it has not an immediate use
<NaCl> okey
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* NaCl is having some trouble figuring out what to look at
* NaCl gets the feeling that he is almost definitely getting over his head
<adrien> did you read the mailing-list message mentionned at the end of the bug discussion?
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<NaCl> is _tags generic for everything or something?
<gildor> _tags just allow to tag things
<thelema> _tags is just for ocamlbuild
<gildor> which is in fact pretty limited
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<gildor> if you want to tune things, you need to go to myocamlbuild.ml
<gildor> i.e. you can define meanings of tags in myocamlbuild.ml and use them in _tags
<thelema> It's the simple configuration file, as opposed to myocamlbuild.ml, which can do everything
<gildor> typical example is use_mylibrary
<gildor> e.g. "foo.byte": use_mylibrary and you define the meaning of "use_mylibrary" in myocamlbuild.ml
<NaCl> ah
<NaCl> how would this be used in other build systems?
<thelema> NaCl: not at all.
<NaCl> I see.
<gildor> NaCl: that one of the possible extension of oasis, be able to use the same semantics for other build systems
<NaCl> is there any interest in this?
<gildor> e.g. with ocamlbuild build depends on libpng (pkg-config) will generate _tags: use_pkg_config_libpng and generate the required lookup in myocamlbuild.ml
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<NaCl> ah
<gildor> whereas in OCamlMakefile it will add smthg like LIBS=$(shell pkg-config -libs libpng)
<NaCl> kk, gotcha
<gildor> but oasis doesn't claim to be a "unification" of all build system, this should just be regarded as a way to unify 80% of what you need and be able to customize the rest
* NaCl would like to use cmake more
<gildor> e.g. oasis only take care of what is inside OASIS_START/OASIS_STOP in _tags, the rest of the file can be customized by user
<NaCl> ah
<NaCl> kaykay
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<NaCl> gildor: should I twiddle with the stuff in darcs?
<gildor> NaCl: lgo ahead, I just pushed my last change
<NaCl> ...and openSUSE doesn't have darcs
<gildor> funny (just add a discussion with f[x] about migrating oasis to git)
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<gildor> NaCl: use the 0.2.0~alpha1 tarball, it is just one small patch behind
<NaCl> git seems to be the VCS of the future or something
<NaCl> I can make a darcs package easily enough
<NaCl> I think
<NaCl> especially if I steal the spec file from fedora
<NaCl> which is what I did to make at least 12 openSUSE ocaml packages
<gildor> just forget darcs, this is not worth
<NaCl> kk
<zorun> is oasis using darcs?
<NaCl> yup
<gildor> zorun: yes
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<zorun> aw
<zorun> sympathy for another functional language, I guess? :)
<gildor> zorun: it started like that
<gildor> zorun: I also like the simplicity of darcs over git
* adrien is still trying to understand why "git archive" creates a tarbomb by default
<gildor> zorun: but this is just VCS (rec) troll, I am not commited to keep darcs against everyone
<zorun> I see
<zorun> darcs isn't as popular as git nowadays
<NaCl> gildor: so, I would go to the plugins/ocamlbuild directory and tweak some files in there?
<NaCl> how many changes would I have to make to the core itself?
<NaCl> zorun: git is *too* popular. :P
<zorun> NaCl: what do you mean?
<NaCl> github
<NaCl> gitosis
<NaCl> git git git
<adrien> gitorious
<NaCl> that's what I meant instead of gitosis
<zorun> yeah
<zorun> but git is technically quite impressive
<zorun> I believe it is enough to explain its success
<gildor> IMHO, VCS is not the heart of programming, this is just a tool, your project won't get popular because it use git
<NaCl> indeed
<gildor> nor it will get a 100% increase in patch submitted because of git
* NaCl got complained-at because I didn't use git to add a patch for a project that was using git
<gildor> yep, just knowning diff -Nurd, should be enough to submit patches
<gildor> (and patch -p1)
<NaCl> gildor: what should I start looking at here?
* adrien tends to use git to make patches, even for non-git projects, easier than cp'ing the sources to another folder
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<zorun> adrien: true
<gildor> src/plugins/ocamlbuild is a good start
<NaCl> adrien: I did that, but he couldn't appliy the diff "easily" and ignored it for months on end
<NaCl> adrien: (polkit)
<gildor> but you first need to implement the syntax of the build depends in src/oasis/OASISBuildSection_intern.ml
<gildor> i.e. change the meaning of the field BuildDepends, to allow libpng (pkg-config)
<gildor> e.g. BuildDepends: fileutils, libpng (pkg-config)
<gildor> fileutils = findlib package fileutils
<gildor> and libpng (pkg-config) = pkg-config package libpng
<adrien> NaCl: ah, polkit =P
* NaCl asks silly syntactical question
<NaCl> what does "~variable" mean?
<gildor> it is a label, i.e. you give a name to a variable
<adrien> labelled arguments: "let f ~foo = print_endline foo"
<adrien> f ~foo:"wooooo" or let foo = "weeeee" in f ~foo
<NaCl> ah
<NaCl> I see (I think)
<NaCl> I'll know if I did something wrong when the compiler tells me (again) that I messed up the syntax
<adrien> there's not a lot to mess up with, except maybe if you try mixing them with unlabelled arguments (order of labelled arguments doesn't matter btw)
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<NaCl> gildor: so, we could have "libpng (version) (pkg-config)" in _oasis?
* NaCl just figured out what was going on in there
<NaCl> but how would optional optional parenthesies work?
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<NaCl> gildor: it would be possible to have libpng (version), or libpng (pkg-config) or libpng (version) (pkgconfig)
<NaCl> gildor: thus, could "libpng (version-pkg-config)" work?
<gildor> NaCl: I was more thinking about libpng (pkg-config, >= 0.1)
<NaCl> so another comma_separated would occur inside the optional_parentheses thing?
<gildor> yes
<NaCl> cool
* NaCl finds this parsing mechanism intriguing
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<gildor> NaCl: that is not really parsing, more like String.split
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<NaCl> true
<thelema> gildor: string.split counts as parsing
<thelema> It's a very basic parsing
<gildor> "very basic" as it should be embedded in setup.ml ;-)
<NaCl> gildor: so, does being "comma_separated" imply at least two values always?
<thelema> NaCl: it shouldn't, if gildor knows what he's doing
<thelema> (which I expect he does)
<thelema> it should imply a list of results.
<gildor> NaCl: there is something like with_optional_parenthesis, that you should combine with string_not_empty (for the name) and comma_separated for (pkg-config, >= 0.1)
<gildor> but comma_separated is not in enough in this case, because you have to do a second level parsing of the content, to distinguish between version_compare (>= 0.1) and pkg-config
* gildor gtg
<gildor> see you
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<thelema> version_or_ident
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<adrien> I don't know if this has been reported/fixed: batteries breaks with ocaml svn: "The field `stats' is required but not provided" on src/batInnerWeaktbl.ml, there have been some recent changes
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<adrien> gah, using ocaml cvs is hard
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<adrien> s/cvs/svn/
* NaCl rereturns
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<adrien> gah, I need a fix from >3.12 but ocamlnet won't compile with that... ='(
<hcarty> adrien: Ouch. Syntax issue, or something else?
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<adrien> hcarty: I think so, for ocamlnet at least
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<thelema> adrien: that hadn't been reported yet. Thanks for the heads up
<thelema> adrien: can you cherry pick the fix?
<Anarchos> adrien i finalized Zermelo-Fraenkel in my first order demonstration verifier :)
<adrien> I know almost nothing about all this :'(
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<adrien> thelema: getting an ocaml git locally
<thelema> adrien: I hope using one of the github clones
<adrien> hmmm, no, using a git svn which I never remember how to update
<adrien> actually I'd like a git repo everyboday agrees on
<thelema> https://github.com/thelema/ocaml-community - svn mirror in 'origin' branch
<Anarchos> adrien about what ?
<adrien> thelema: Hashtbl.stats : ('a, 'b) t -> statistics (which is a new type) has been added 3 days ago and the error revolves around that afaict, but I don't have the exact message anymore
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* adrien still hopes he'll see an automated and automatic tester of the whole ocaml ecosystem soon
<adrien> Anarchos: solvers and provers
<Anarchos> adrien it is neither
<adrien> well, verifiers either
<Anarchos> adrien you have to give all the steps of the demonstrations , really all, and the program verifies that it starts from axioms and ends with your theorem
<adrien> (I need to recompile this kernel because I lost the ability to change the backlight and it's way too bright right now)
<adrien> and ocaml can't allocate enough mem when building godi-ocaml-labltk (copyright.ml) ='(
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<pdhborges> thelema: I'm reading the junior tasks in batterie's wiki
<thelema> pdhborges: ok
<pdhborges> thelema: how do I implement a compare for option
<pdhborges> withou passing a compare for 'a?
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<Anarchos> pdhborges you can't
<Anarchos> pdhborges since option is parametrized
<pdhborges> so the goal i just to implement
<thelema> let compare ?(cmp=Pervasives.compare) a b = ... cmp ...
<pdhborges> compare : 'a option -> 'a option -> ('a -> 'a -> cmp_result) -> cmp_result?
<pdhborges> ah
<pdhborges> okay
<thelema> is one way... one sec, let me double check how other modules do it
<thelema> batMap.mli: val compare: cmp:('a -> 'a -> int) -> 'a t -> 'a t -> int
<thelema> batPair.mli:val compare : ?c1:('a -> 'a -> int) -> ?c2:('b -> 'b -> int) -> ('a * 'b) -> ('a * 'b) -> int
<pdhborges> why int and not a variant?
<hcarty> thelema: Any chance we could have compare : 'a -> 'a -> comparision_t in some future Batteries release?
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<hcarty> type comparison_t = GT | LT | EQ (or better names)
<thelema> hcarty: absolutely, iirc someone already wrote a bunch of code for that, maybe bluestorm/gasche
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<hcarty> Hooray!
<thelema> this branch has some improvements to the quicktests, so there's multiple reasons to merge it.
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<NaCl> gildor: the gettext stuff in oasis doesn't respect DESTDIR
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