gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.12.0+beta1 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.caml.inria/49168
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<metasyntax> Is there any way to get a backtrace of "where" an uncaught exception is raised from, using ocamldebug?
<elehack> metasyntax: not sure on ocamldebug specifically - I seem to remember it usually printing a stack trace - but you get stack traces for uncaught OCaml exceptions by setting the OCAMLRUNPARAM environment variable to 'b'.
<metasyntax> Ah, it becomes available when I "backstep."
<metasyntax> elehack: Oh, cool.
<metasyntax> Or use -b to ocamlrun it seems.
<elehack> yeah
<elehack> it saves me much time.
<elehack> you can also get the backtrace in code, if you want to print backtraces in your own exception handlers.
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<thelema> elehack: should we require camomile 0.8.1?
<elehack> thelema: I think it's probably better to hold off a bit, unless there are things we particularly need.
<elehack> my general thought is to stay compatible with things that are shipped for some time.
<elehack> that shouldn't hold us back from adding new features which will provide notable improvements.
<thelema> hmm, how do we play nice with people who want standalone executables?
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<thelema> a separate branch, and they can compile batteries themselves?
<elehack> I haven't looked at 0.8.1 yet.
<elehack> if that's necessary. is 0.8.1 incompatible with 0.7.1?
<thelema> I'm trying to decide how to handle this:
<thelema> the parts we'll be using won't be in 0.7.1
<elehack> hrm :-S
<elehack> can the incompatibility be abstracted and let the build system figure out how to put it together for a particular Camomile version?
<thelema> we could have two different batCamomile files...
<elehack> that would work.
<elehack> it'd be either that or using camlp4.macro
<elehack> and adding a bit of sophistication to the build system.
<elehack> compatibility and improvement are an interesting balance. I don't want excessive obsession with compatibility to hold Batteries back, but I'd rather not see unnecessary incompatibility either.
<thelema> one simple, short-term solution is to add a make target that replaces batCamomile with the 0.8.1-compatible version
<elehack> hrm, that would mess up Git checkouts :-S
<elehack> we can have batCamomile.0.7.ml and batCamomile.0.8.ml, and an ocamlbuild target which symlinks or copies the right one in place.
<thelema> how? if you didn't make that target, everything would work for 0.7
<elehack> yeah
<elehack> but 0.8 users would have an extraneous modification
<thelema> true. 0.8 was just released, only few people will use it.
<elehack> true.
<thelema> you're right that we want auto-detection in the long run
<thelema> well, we want 0.8.1 only in the long run
<elehack> yeah
<thelema> (at least I want that)
<elehack> I agree that 0.8.1-only should happen sometime.
<thelema> if we want to keep ubuntu/debian compatibility, that sometime will be a long ways off
<elehack> yeah
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<elehack> as I see it, with all the bugfixing and enhancements and tweaks, Batteries is in a bit of a state of flux right now. which gives us more flexibility in updating dependencies.
<thelema> I expect batteries will be in a state of flux for a while.
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* elehack is hoping that it will be able to settle down for 2.0
<thelema> me too.
<elehack> (even if it means that 2.0 doesn't happen for quite a while
<thelema> I don't mind making 1.x releases...
<elehack> what about the Semantic Versioning guarantees? they seem to somewhat hamper our ability to go fix broken APIs before 2.0.
<elehack> although we also don't want everyone's code breaking all the time either.
<thelema> true. But we can add a lot of improved functions and deprecate broken APIs before 2.0
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<elehack> yeah
<thelema> hopefully we won't deprecate anything people are actually using and 2.0 will be relatively painless
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<elehack> yes, that would be good. although some things, like making BatSubstring smell more like OCaml than standard ML, will probably necessitate some changes.
<elehack> (I don't know if many people besides me are using that code, though)
<thelema> We can make a new module batSlice for string slices that smells like OCaml
<elehack> that's a good idea.
<thelema> names are in abundance
* elehack would suggest thread, for lightweight/partial rope, but that name is already taken
<thelema> yes, there's a semantic clash there.
<thelema> segment
<elehack> but yeah, with new naming it becomes easier to do some of the heavy cleanup.
<thelema> I've noticed other projects working this way - one major piece of code is just superceded by another major piece of code with a similar name
<thelema> projects like... Perl and Python
<elehack> yep, either that, or they find somewhere new in the namespace to stash it.
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<hcarty> Does anyone here have a reference for caml_register_global_root and related functions, outside of the official manual? After reading the manual I'm not clear on their purpose.
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<avsm> If you want to mark an OCaml value that should never be garbage collected, you use that
<avsm> even if nothing else is referencing it in the main OCaml program
<avsm> remember, any time you enter the runtime from a C binding, it can trigger a GC which collects a value. so temporary values must be marked as roots
<hcarty> avsm: Will it prevent a value from being moved by the garbage collector?
<hcarty> avsm: For example, if I pass a string to a value (string or array) and the C function keeps a pointer to that in some other structure on the C side
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<mfp> hcarty: the OCaml runtime will update the pointer for you if it moves the value: you give caml_register_global_root the address of the value variable
<avsm> yup. and if the value variable doesnt change, you can register it as a generational root so it's scanned less often
<avsm> look at the ocaml-sqlite3 bindings, they're well written and use generational roots
<avsm> for user-defined functions, iirc
<hcarty> avsm, mfp: Thank you both
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<JohnnyL> how is ocaml with parallel processing?
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<Yoric> JohnnyL: not very good. For this purpose, you should rather use JoCaml, BSML or OCamlp3l.
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<hcarty> The preludeml library also has a few simple fork-based parallel map and iter functions
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<JohnnyL> hcarty: what's your view of using the Actor model in Ocaml?
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<hcarty> JohnnyL: I haven't worked with it, but I've seen others mention using JoCaml and Lwt in that context.
<hcarty> I'm not very familiar with the concept or terminology, so that is about as much as I know
<JohnnyL> hcarty: fair enough.
<adrien> I don't know much about this either, but afaik, if you're after an actor model, you have to check out jocaml
<JohnnyL> ok
<JohnnyL> the only language i've seen that is good for parallelism on the server is haskell (and perhaps Clean).
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<mfp> JohnnyL: GHC won't scale beyond a few cores since the GC is not concurrent, though
<mfp> JohnnyL: the managed platforms with good parallelism (but not necessarily the right abstractions on top of it to tame it) boil down to the JVM, the CLR and things w/o a global GC like Erlang --- all because writing a concurrent GC with good throughput is so hard
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<JohnnyL> I'm not much of an Erlang fan. but yeah, Erlang is sweet in that area, in particular, swapping code in and out of production.
<JohnnyL> mfp, would you say something like modern reverse proxy servers would take over the bulk of system operations (I'm not sure if any are more granular than ip addresses)?
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<Associat0r> don't forget F#
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<m00npirate> is there a way to run a method every time an instance of a class is created (call a method in the constructor)
<julm> there is an [initializer] keyword if I remember correctly; just call self#your_method within it
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<m00npirate> i thought initializers were the object's arguments
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<m00npirate> no you are right, thank you julm
<julm> yw
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