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<__marius__>
am i hallucinating, or did there used to be an ocaml-batteries that was more standalone (included ocaml, findlib, etc.)
<flux>
I think you are hallucinating.
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<flux>
so, did qt-caml die or is it still going on?
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<flux>
was it too infeasible?
<adrien>
well, the last news I heard was that it was 99% ready for a preview/alpha release
<adrien>
and the last thing I said about it was that I'd try it from svn but I never had time to
<adrien>
(I also have to say that, now, I maybe wouldn't mind dropping the gcc-xml dep and use cowboy instead /o\ )
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<flux>
cowboy?
<flux>
ah, right :)
<flux>
I imagine it would not be a trivial task to port it
<flux>
also for example ubuntu already has gcc-xml packaged, so it might be easier to compile in general..
<adrien>
yes but gcc-xml is quite big and isn't developped upstream anymore
<flux>
oh. well that's not good.
<adrien>
but I'm not going to do that port, only if needed if gcc-xml disappears, I'm not crazy ;-)
<adrien>
currently it works, so why touch it? :P
<flux>
nice to know people still having a pragmatic touch in reality ;)
<adrien>
perpetual lack of time makes wonder for that ='(
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<flux>
adrien, qt-caml doesn't keep their repo at qt-caml.crapulion.org I hope? (last change 2 months ago)
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<flux>
I wonder how tedious it would be to write a qt/c++/ocaml and bind only the required stuff..
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<adrien>
flux: iirc they do, but actually I'm surprised last change was 2 months ago, I thought it'd be more
<adrien>
flux: did you mean 'last change two months ago' or 'twelve months ago'?
<flux>
hmm, I must've misread it :)
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<adrien>
gildor: possible problem in oasis: the .clib file should list .cmo and .cmx files too (as per the manual afaict), I have to leave soon so I'll check in more details later on
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<gildor>
adrien: OK, check it and tell me (through bug reports if you want)
<gildor>
adrien: but I don't see why we should put .cmo/.cmx there
<gildor>
(i.e. .clib is intended to list .o object)
<adrien>
.o files or object files? the later would include cmo and cmx, and that makes them appear on the ocamlmklib call ( http://pauillac.inria.fr/ocaml/htmlman/manual032.html : example : "ocamlmklib -o zip zip.cmo zip.cmx zipstubs.o -lz -L/usr/local/zlib
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* elehack
is confused by usage of index and Byte.b_idx in BatUTF8
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<thelema>
elehack: Byte.b_idx is byte-level indexing into a UTF8 string. index is character-level indexing
<elehack>
thelema: but the byte-level indexing functions in BatUTF8 (next, prev, - most except look) use type 'index', while the char-level ones use 'int'
<thelema>
the byte level indexing functions usu b_idx
<thelema>
index is a byte index, but restricted to only valid start of characters
<elehack>
ok, so when it's 'int', it's a character number; when it's 'index', it's a byte index to the start of a character; when it's 'b_idx', it's a byte index that could be anything?
<thelema>
it could be either index or char_idx when it's i nt
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<elehack>
ok, but I haven't seen any functions using 'int' when it's clearly byte-level (they all seem to use 'index'), so I think it's consistent in that regard.
<elehack>
this started when I was looking for a function to get the character at an 'index', and found that look took a b_idx.
<thelema>
treat index as an abstract value for a pointer into the UTF8 string.
<elehack>
yes, that does seem to be the thing to do.
<thelema>
What do you mean "character at an index? if you mean the nth character in the string, you want Byte.of_char_idx.
<elehack>
I wanted the UChar.t of the character starting at a particular byte position.
<thelema>
If you mean something byte-oriented, then Byte.of_int_unsafe
<thelema>
then you just want look.
<elehack>
yep, that's what I wound up using.
<thelema>
Byte.of_int_unsafe n |> look str
<thelema>
good.
<thelema>
how did you get a byte index into a unicode string?
<elehack>
offset from a Pcre regex match
<thelema>
ah. got it.
<elehack>
it could be nice if Batteries 2.0 had Pcre baked-in with the ability to sanely do regex matching over any string type.
<elehack>
that gets complicated for ropes, though
<thelema>
we may end up writing our own engine. partly for ropes, partly as PCRE is a heavy dependency.
<flux>
that's would not be small undertaking, to be as usable or even half the speed of PCRE?
<hcarty>
thelema: If you write your own, PLEASE keep the PCRE syntax if possible. We already have three regexp-like syntaxes in OCaml (Str, PCRE and mikmatch)
<flux>
although I've sometimes wanted to perform regular expression matches on partial block and apparently that isn't possible with PCRE..
<thelema>
well, I probably wouldn't support backreferences
<flux>
how big a dependency pcre is, anyway?
<thelema>
but other than that, it's all good...
<elehack>
the library itself is pretty small; it does depend on having the pcre C library available (true on virtually any *nix, not sure how easy it is on Windows)
<thelema>
if it was pure ocaml, I would mind less, but as it's usually distributed in multiple parts...
<thelema>
meaning that we'd introduce a dependency with a nontrivial dependency itself
<flux>
implementing pcre in ocaml would also make the resulting binaries larger..
<thelema>
requiring package management.
<flux>
btw, 210 packages in my ubuntu depend on pcre
<thelema>
Batteries as architected is usable in a modular way so that only needed modules get compiled in.
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<flux>
even with open Batteries?
<thelema>
as far as I'm concerned, the binary size problem is solved.
<thelema>
no, open batteries imports everything.
<thelema>
well, yes, just make your own batteries modules that imports just what you need.
<thelema>
make a stripped down copy of batteries.ml
<flux>
another point of concern is that an ocaml-based pcre implementation would hardly be as efficient as the real one, thus reducing performance on benchmarks :-)
<thelema>
:P We'll see about that. My day job involves automata theory.
<flux>
doesn't pcre compile re's into automatas as well, for the parts it can atleast?
<thelema>
no, it doesn't.
<flux>
oh.
<thelema>
it's a totally backtracking-based engine.
<flux>
so does it have those catastrophic inputs that can make it crawl?
<thelema>
even perl has only recently added support for tries to do faster string matching.
<thelema>
yes, it does have catastrophic inputs
<flux>
oh2.
<flux>
well then perhaps a re-implemented re-engine wouldn't be that bad.
<flux>
I've wondered if one could speed up DFA execution by considering two inputs at a same time.. (and use that information to convert it into NFA and back to DFA again)
<flux>
(at the expense of consuming more memory, of course)
<thelema>
two inputs = two characters?
<hcarty>
If the result is Totally Awesome and supports named substrings/matches, then it sounds worthwhile.
<flux>
thelema, yes, two consecutive characters
<flux>
hcarty, maybe it should be called "TARE"
<elehack>
I see that RE2 does not support lookahead/lookbehind assertions... is that fundamental to the concept, or would an OCaml re engine be able to handle them?
<thelema>
completely possible, the problem is that the transition tables get unwieldy - 65K transitions per state vs. 256
<elehack>
although you have massive transition tables anyway as soon as you allow Unicode.
<thelema>
elehack: pretty fundamental to the concept. Maybe possible to cheat to achieve
<flux>
thelema, but possibly the transition table could be expressed more efficiently. it would need to be measured if in the end there is anything to gain from it..
<thelema>
elehack: true. you have to do compression of some sort to deal with unicode
<flux>
also one thing I've thought about ocaml-made re-engines: you could pattern match some non-character entities altogether
<elehack>
Camomile's UMap and USet can probably help a lot with the compression for unicode. wouldn't help for two chars though.
<thelema>
flux: if anything, it would probably be compressed by splitting it into two stages, the first and the second byte.
<thelema>
elehack: camomile's UMap would be fundamental to a unicode regex implementation
<thelema>
flux: yes, pattern matching would help with dealing with non-character entities
<elehack>
on lookahead/lookbehind again: I don't know how important those are. My current project is the first time I've actually used them.
<elehack>
they're convenient, but a lack of them could be worked around without too much difficulty.
<elehack>
I don't know how general that situation is, however.
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<thelema>
this is generally true. Sometimes the workarounds are really ugly and unmaintainable
* elehack
envisions a mikmatch-like syntax extension that generates matching functions which return named subgroups as record fields.
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<thelema>
maybe I should just spend some time on mikmatch
<flux>
lookaheads (and negative lookaheads) are nice
<flux>
couldn't they be expressed in some extended form or GNFA that's still reducible to DFA?
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<elehack>
all mikmatch does is generate PCRE (or str) regexes.
<elehack>
along with a few other sugarings.
<flux>
whatever you choose to do.. please let it be thread-safe :P
<adrien>
nah, Str is great ;-)
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<hcarty>
flux: TARE is a fantastic name. It TAREs through data at an TAREible rate.
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<flux>
hcarty, yeah.. ocaml doesn't have enough of those trendy and hip names. Totally Awesome Regular Expression (-engine) would fill that void.
<flux>
batteries is good, too :)
<hcarty>
Batteries will power your OCaml as it TAREs through your data
<adrien>
flux: well, it sounded really weird in french
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<jgrozave>
does anyone know what myocamlbuild is used for?
<jgrozave>
when compiling ocaml from source
<adrien>
it's the build-system
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<adrien>
gildor: had no time to spend on that but basically, I was trying to make a stupid C binding to usleep() with oasis and the call to ocamlmklib didn't seem very useful (wouldn't include the .cmo or .cmx files and the output .cma and .cmxa files were overwritten by later calls to ocamlc or ocamlopt), I'll try to spend more time on that tomorrow
<gildor>
adrien: send me a tarball, I will have a look
<adrien>
gildor: actually I already have a tarball: http://pers.yaxm.org/temp/dummy.tar.gz ;-) it was made pretty quickly so I'm not sure everything's ok in the tarball, but more on that tomorrow ;-)
<gildor>
adrien: this is corrected in version 0.2.0
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<gildor>
adrien: you can just add <dummy.{cma,cmxa}>: use_libdummy after the OASIS_STOP line
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<skrewla>
hi, I'm having some trouble building calmimages 3.0.2 on opensolaris. i'm getting this error 'gmake: *** No rule to make target `../autoconf/ocaml.m4', needed by `Makefile.in'. Stop.' anyone help?
<gildor>
skrewla: is there an aclocal.m4 in the topdir ?
<skrewla>
sorry im kind of new at this. topdir you mean my cwd?
<gildor>
the toplevel directory of the source
<skrewla>
yes
<gildor>
you got the patch in 2 sec
<gildor>
oops, I don't yet have released this package
<skrewla>
oh
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<gildor>
skrewla: upstream don't add the required macro in aclocal.m4
<skrewla>
how can i fix it
<gildor>
you need a patch
<gildor>
I was creating it
<gildor>
but I don't have finished
<skrewla>
ok. =)
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<skrewla>
gildor: im curious if the timeline will be hours / days / weeks so i know if i have to work around not having camlimages or not
<skrewla>
not rushing you.=)
<gildor>
skrewla: you are rushing me
<gildor>
skrewla: the workaround is to do aclocal -I m4/, autoconf, automake, ./configure