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<gl>
salut two-face
<karryall_>
hello two-face
<gl>
salut karryall, tant qu a faire
<two-face>
salut karryall_ et gl
<two-face>
karryall_: ça roule ?
<karryall_>
bonjour tlm
<karryall_>
ca roule, ouais
<two-face>
karryall_: tu approches de la release?
<karryall_>
ouioui
<karryall_>
moi j'ai plus rien a rajouter
<gl>
la release de ?
<karryall_>
mais il faut xtrm pour faire la release
<karryall_>
et il est pas la
<karryall_>
gl: ocamlsdl
<two-face>
quelle est la différence entre sdlvideo et sdlvideo2 ?
<karryall_>
ben y'en a plus vu que Sdlvideo2 a remplace Sdlvideo
<two-face>
ok
<two-face>
c pas mal avec OCaml d'avoir des outils à jour, sdl, GL, gtk
<karryall_>
euh ouais mais gtk c'est pas top à jour encore
<karryall_>
pas encore de lablgtk2
<gl>
sauf lablgl et lablgtk se compilent pas sur ma machine
<two-face>
karryall_: jacques est en train de terminer, et puis ya pas bcp de langages qui bindent gtk2
<two-face>
gl: ah?
<gl>
two-face: oui, mais bon, j ai pas encore pris le temps de regarder pourquoi ca foire aussi lamentablement
<gl>
(sur gentoo... emerge lablgl lablgtk echoue)
<two-face>
ah gentoo
<gl>
eh oui :)
<gl>
c est pas encore tres mature
<two-face>
eh oui :)
<gl>
ah oui, j avais une question.. ocamlbrowser, il necessite lablgtk/lablgl ?
<two-face>
non
<two-face>
labltk, c'est dans ocaml
<gl>
et il est par defaut dans la distrib, alors ?
<two-face>
oui
<gl>
bah je l ai pas..
<gl>
sur mon pc, je l ai (gentoo aussi) et sur le laptop, je l ai pas (encore gentoo)
<gl>
c est une installation non-deterministe ou quoi ?
<two-face>
pas que je sache :)
<gl>
c est tres bizarre, tout ca
<karryall_>
y'a un cvs pour lablgtk ?
<gl>
c est le seul binaire qu il me manque dans /usr/bin..
<gl>
marrant
<two-face>
karryall_: pas public que je sache
<karryall_>
two-face: ok c'est ce qui me semblait
<karryall_>
vous connaissez bien camlp4 ?
<gl>
jamais utilise
<two-face>
karryall_: camlp4 non
<karryall_>
bon :(
<karryall_>
j'essaye de bidouiller la syntaxe
<karryall_>
c'est pas hyper évident
<two-face>
mais est-ce que ce truc est vraiment utile?
<mrvn>
whatever you say
<karryall_>
two-face: quel truc ? camlp4 ?
<two-face>
oui
<two-face>
mrvn: hello, yes?
<mrvn>
Seems to be an intresting discussion.
<two-face>
mrvn: what did you understand? :)
<mrvn>
camlp4, lablgtk, cvs
<mrvn>
installation
<karryall_>
two-face: ben oui ca peut etre utile
<zack>
karryall_: I know a bit of camlp4 and, aniway, much more that french ... :-)
<two-face>
hey zack!
<zack>
two-face: hi!
<two-face>
zack: i'm mlchating with maxence currently
<zack>
:-)
<zack>
well, I'm going back to work, if karryall_ need help with camlp4, just say my name!, and I can try to help him
* zack
is back (gone 06:13:28)
* zack
is away: I'm busy
<two-face>
ok
<two-face>
no prob
<karryall_>
zack: thanks, it's about making an extension to ocaml syntax
<zack>
I'm using almost only camlp4 modules to work on ocaml syntax tree, but anyway ... say ...
<karryall_>
I want to modify a rule in the patt entry of the grammar
<karryall_>
but this rule uses another entry lbl_patt_list
<karryall_>
but this one is not GLOBAL
<karryall_>
so is there a way I can reuse it ?
<zack>
couldn't you declare it as global yourself?
<karryall_>
hum, I'll try that
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<zack>
please prepend next messages for me with "zack:"
<two-face>
hey Yurik!
<Yurik>
two-face: hi!
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<nopcode>
hi
<two-face>
Yurik: you still haven't fired your president? :)
<nopcode>
what is the second int parameter that Unix.sendto wants ?
<nopcode>
val sendto :
<nopcode>
file_descr -> string -> int -> int -> msg_flag list -> sockaddr -> int
<Yurik>
two-face: still not :)
<Yurik>
two-face: but I'm ready to elect new
<two-face>
nopcode: i guess man sendto should give you clues
<two-face>
Yurik: good :)
<nopcode>
two-face: doesnt help
<nopcode>
might be the flags, but those are handled in the list
<two-face>
nopcode: look at the source then
<nopcode>
where is that ?
<nopcode>
ah got it
<two-face>
BBL
<nopcode>
uh, theres every god damn extension in the world to "unix" but no .ml ;)
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<karryall_>
zack: I can't define as GLOBAL (unless recompiling pa_o.ml)
<karryall_>
zack: but I found a workaround anyway
<zack>
karryall_: what?
<karryall_>
I mean, the entry I wanted to reuse/extend is not declared as GLOBAL in pa_o.ml
<karryall_>
so it's simply not possible to extend id
<karryall_>
so I just copy/pasted it and modified it
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<SyntaxPolice>
hi :-)
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* SyntaxPolice
is very pleased to see the O'Reilly book
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<whee>
hooray
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<Miwong>
hello
<two-face>
hi
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<systems>
:)
<two-face>
hi
<systems>
hi
<systems>
i just started readin in the ocaml ora book
<systems>
cool , confusing , interesting
<systems>
function -> x function y-> x+y ;;
<systems>
that is wicked
<systems>
does ocmal look good in one c.v or will it be like not so importante
<two-face>
don't know
<whee>
c.v?
<two-face>
whee: resume
<whee>
oh heh
<whee>
I put it in mine
<systems>
like when you apply for a job you presente your c.v
<whee>
it can't hurt if the job you're going after deals with programming
<two-face>
i always put everything in a resume
<systems>
cv have a different meaning in the us zo
<two-face>
it doesn't hurt
<systems>
doesnt hurt is bad
<two-face>
it shows you're open minded
<SyntaxPolice>
In the company I work, we have interviewed some people, looking specifically for people w/ ML, O'Caml, Haskell experience, but some people don't put it on their resumes.
<mrvn>
system: Why would you write "function x -> function y -> x+y" if you can write "fun x y -> x+y" or "(+)"?
<mrvn>
It can hardly hurt putting more on your resume
<SyntaxPolice>
Today I've been looking at options for interfacing O'Caml w/ Java. SOAP looks like the best option at the moment, does anyone have any suggestions?
<SyntaxPolice>
Probably the idea is to put a java GUI over an O'Caml engine
<mrvn>
java sucks. Why not lablgtk?
<whee>
java is more cross platform
<two-face>
mrvn: less portable i guess
<mrvn>
java? portable?
<whee>
I can't use lablgtk applications in OS X without loading Xfree, for example
<SyntaxPolice>
mrvn: good question :)
<mrvn>
yeah, yeah. Compile once run anywhere.
<whee>
but java will work just fine natively
<two-face>
mrvn: sun jdk, that's what i'm talking about but ..
<mrvn>
anywhere but where you try.
<SyntaxPolice>
mrvn: for the cross platform stuff, but I don't think we have any very strong reasons for using Java
<SyntaxPolice>
mrvn: plus java legacy code :)
<mrvn>
Do you have any platform without ocaml?
<SyntaxPolice>
mrvn: presumably, no.
<mrvn>
If you realy want cross platform write a http interface.
<two-face>
it is a marketing problem, isn't it?
<whee>
haha
<SyntaxPolice>
if you can give me good reasons to tell my boss not to use Java, I'd be glad to share them with him :)
<two-face>
sometimes technical choices have nothing to do with it
<mrvn>
with just basic http.
<whee>
java is relatively easy to create a gui with though
<whee>
and it will work on the major platforms at least
<SyntaxPolice>
mrvn: any thoughts on SOAP?
<mrvn>
SyntaxPolice: no enums, not finalise, no multiple inheritance
<mrvn>
no const parameters for functions
<mrvn>
new gui for every version
<mrvn>
new datatypes with every version
<mrvn>
new localisation with every version
<whee>
ever used mldonkey syntaxpolice?
<SyntaxPolice>
whee: no
<whee>
there's a basic console version, and it also provides an http interface
<mrvn>
and telnet interface
<whee>
but there's also the ability to put a gui written in some language on it
<whee>
probably using the telnet interface for external guis but that's probably the most flexible way to do it
<SyntaxPolice>
at the moment, I have to convince my boss to switch from Haskell to O'Caml, and demonstrating a good itnerface w/ Java would be a big help.
<mrvn>
Does haskel have gtk bindings?
<mrvn>
or gl?
<whee>
there's as good of an interface with java as there is with awk
<whee>
heh
<whee>
I don't think anything really interfaces with java
<mrvn>
not even java
<SyntaxPolice>
mrvn: haskell has some gtk bindings, but not the full set.
<mrvn>
The ocaml gtk bindings are great. Might be enough reason to change.
<SyntaxPolice>
some widely implemented and flexable interface would make me happy. Corba maybe, though I'm not sure if thats what people are using these days.
<mrvn>
ocaml + lablgtk + zoggy (or its sequel)
<mrvn>
I haven't seen any programm using corba thats not bloated.
<SyntaxPolice>
I don't understand what eDonkey is.
<mrvn>
SyntaxPolice: Its a file sharing protocol, P2P.
<mrvn>
SyntaxPolice: and mldonkey is an implementation in ocaml
<whee>
and mldonkey is an ocaml client for multiple p2p networks
<whee>
the way mldonkey handles its interface might be worth looking into because it works with anything
<mrvn>
I think mldonkeys http interface sucks, look&feel wise.
<mrvn>
But its only one of the options.
<whee>
I usually use cocodonkey as an interface
<SyntaxPolice>
hrm. so you're saying to look at mldonkey to get an example of an application doing cross-language and GUI stuff?
<whee>
well not so much cross language
<mrvn>
SyntaxPolice: its a simple client-server or rather client-gui implementation you can use as an example.
<SyntaxPolice>
gocha
<whee>
all the interfacing is done with networking
<mrvn>
For cross language theres an php interface.
<whee>
so it doesn't matter what external language is used as long as it follows whatever protocol that was defined
<mrvn>
in any of its versions.
<mrvn>
the client and gui lower their versions till they have a common one.
<mrvn>
Only problem with mldonkey is that it needs a gui/graphics designer. Programmers can't draw icons and such.
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<SyntaxPolice>
so mldonkey uses its own protocol, though.
<SyntaxPolice>
?
<mrvn>
yep..
<mrvn>
Which is much easier than to use a bloated multi purpose protocol like corba.
<SyntaxPolice>
how 'bout a smaller multi purpose protocol like xmlrpc
<whee>
do you load mozilla composer to edit a text file?
<whee>
heh
<SyntaxPolice>
honestly, I don't think writing my own protocol is the way to go here...
<whee>
it's better to use the right tool for the job
<SyntaxPolice>
whee: I've never used mozilla composer :) and I know what you're saying about using bloated software...
<mrvn>
do you need rpc? do you use different endian systems?
<SyntaxPolice>
I'm thinking of using xmlrpc or SOAP as a means to communicate between Java and O'Caml, for instance, or maybe we'll decide to put something else on the front end.
<SyntaxPolice>
Not necessarily between two different systems.
<SyntaxPolice>
but who knows what the future will hold.
<SyntaxPolice>
:)
<SyntaxPolice>
I'm not ocncerned about endian problems at the moment
<SyntaxPolice>
see, the advantage to using something like xmlrpc, SOAP, Corba, whatever, is that if we decide to do one piece of the project in one language, we're not stuck using that language forever and ever.
<SyntaxPolice>
xmlrpc is widely implemented in lots of languages
<whee>
you aren't stuck using one language if you decide to design your own protocol either
<SyntaxPolice>
and this project has lots of pieces that may need to talk to eachother in various ways.
<SyntaxPolice>
whee: yeah, but we have to reimplement the protocol for each language we want to use.
<whee>
and it'd likely be simplier than using some generic protocol
<mrvn>
Where can I find docs for xmlrpc for ocaml?
<SyntaxPolice>
I don't know when designing a protocol for a large system has ever been "easy"
<whee>
you'll be doing a lot of rewriting if you decide to switch languages anyway
<SyntaxPolice>
mrvn: you'll find a SOAP implementation in the Hump
<SyntaxPolice>
whee: if we switch languages, we will do a lot of rewriting, but if we implement different components in differnet languages, then thats a different story.
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<mrvn>
I need a simple xml parser for some input/config files.