07:22 <itsNotMe> For those who are interested in, it's from last ZeroPhone Newsletter: "Some Reddit users have asked about our plans for a touchscreen/QWERTY device... Here's a mockup of how the next ZeroPhone version (not "revision", like Gamma/Delta/Delta-B) might look, done by @Morning.Star over at Hackaday.io. The form-factor idea is mainly driven by sourcing requirements, featurefulness and nostalgy on hybrid Nokia phones. Also, the QWERTY layo

07:24 <itsNotMe> It is with pictures showing a phone with hardware keyboard ... like ... mhm ... a N900

08:34 <atk> itsNotMe: is there a link to this mockup?

08:34 <atk> or nwsletter

08:42 <itsNotMe> let me see... : https://mailchi.mp/0358f007e43c/stream-now-matrix-app-delta-b-hackaday-supercon-mockups-and-miscommunications?e=7dde0e894f

08:43 <bencoh> :/

12:05 <Joerg-Neo900> o.O

12:09 <atk> it's like a mini pandora console

12:18 <Joerg-Neo900> ohwell, Zerophone so far _completely_ ignored size and usability considerations. When they start doing what Neo900 tries to do, they will run into exactly same problems we ran into

12:18 <Joerg-Neo900> and yeah, looks very much like a mini Pyra

12:19 <Joerg-Neo900> so they rather will inherit the Pandorabox Pyra flock of trouble

12:20 <Joerg-Neo900> https://zerophone.github.io/newsletter/ZeroPhone-Weekly-No.-16/

12:23 <Joerg-Neo900> ((ignored size and usability)) https://i.imgur.com/bUhAtjY.png

12:24 <Joerg-Neo900> that's somewhat "easy"

12:28 <Joerg-Neo900> >>In the meantime, 4G modem research is underway - there aren’t a lot of options, so if you know of something, suggest it to us!<< You'll be unpleasantly surprised by what you find: it slowly but obviously turns into mission impossible to find a 4G modem with voice call feature

12:34 <Joerg-Neo900> also it seems to me that globally the users' usage patterns are changing. Voice calls seem to become a yesterday's thing, like maybe FAX already is. Screen sizes move to the 7°, introducing a somewhat retro-evolution away from smartphone concept back to the PDA, now called phablet

12:39 <Joerg-Neo900> anyway if this guy really wants to go that direction, he's more than welcome to contact Neo900 UG and form a joint venture

13:31 <sicelo> itsNotMe: hybrid Nokia phones (and the picture) --> Nokia Communicators

13:39 <bencoh> .59

13:39 <bencoh> woops

17:05 <crox> Joerg-Neo900, what do you mean with "4G modem with voice call feature"? I thought with 4G you only have voice calls through IMS... But the 4G modem should also do at least voice over 3G? (I don't think 2G matters anymore as it will start being phased out soon to free up frequencies for 5G)

17:09 <bencoh> (sadly ... it's still the most battery-efficient one)

17:10 <bencoh> (and the most resilient as well)

17:56 <Joerg-Neo900> crox: simply put: no audio interface on modem

18:02 <Joerg-Neo900> more into perspective: 4G modems are basically made for M2Mgeolocation tags and whatnot. A few bucks licensing fees for GSM voice call (codec / whatnot) patents, plus some ore pins and IP blocks to design, implement, debug, support and document - doesn't make sense for the manufacturer

18:03 <Joerg-Neo900> more into perspective: 4G modems are basically made for M2M, geolocation tags and whatnot. A few bucks licensing fees *per unit sold* for GSM voice call (codec / whatnot) patents, plus some ore pins and IP blocks to design, implement, debug, support and document - doesn't make sense for the manufacturer

18:06 <Joerg-Neo900> basically some project like Neo900 or zerophome or whatever nowadays had to start way lower, with a radically new approach to the task at hand, reviewing and refactoring basically everything starting with the form factor and usecase scenarios to the carrier networks and generally connectivity solutions used, to the business model and ecosystem

18:18 <Joerg-Neo900> to play a hybrid of BS-bingo and brainstorming for a science fiction movie: new formfactor concept separate HID (aka "keyboard" whatever that will look like in the end), display(s), audio, wireless and power - into separate blocks connected by BT and/or WLAN and optionally snap-on contacts and/or cables (at least for charging and stationary usecase). Rethink voice calls completely, only offering SIP VoIP incl the server side infra as a service -

18:18 <Joerg-Neo900> RAT being irrelevant then, be it WWAN, WLAN, BT, ZigBee, or even SAT phone (or any combination of those - choose your "wireless and power" module according to your needs)

18:22 <Joerg-Neo900> choose the display "module" you want, starting from regular LCD of diagonal that meets your needs, to e-paper, to AR/VR goggles to simply connecting to next contemporary streaming TV via WLAN or HDMI or USB or dongle

18:24 <Joerg-Neo900> audio is almost trivial, there are a plethora of BT and wired headsets and headphones, or you even could connect a DeCT or SIP WLAN phone device

18:26 <Joerg-Neo900> HID there are obviously USB regular keyboards, portable fold-able BT QWERTY kbd, smart watch application to use a T9 vkbd, or even completely virtual keyboards inside your AR from your goggles, incl voice command interface

18:28 <Joerg-Neo900> meh, I can't do this anymore. Every time I start "engineering", tax and accounting and HR sneeks into my mind and makes me feel desperate

18:46 <Joerg-Neo900> gimmick: smart wardrobe that locates the power&wireless module in your jacket and charges it wirelessly by placing the Qi charger into appropriate position. You could leave the module in your jacket for yeras then since it has no displays or pushbuttons or any other parts that need user attention

18:46 <Joerg-Neo900> for years*

19:33 <crox> :-)

19:34 <crox> so is that the direction you are taking for the neo900, just a modem without voice then ?

20:20 <Joerg-Neo900> sorry, you must have gotten me wrong

20:21 <Joerg-Neo900> SIP VoIP is proper voice phone calls

20:23 <Joerg-Neo900> and I'm not taking Neo900 anywhere right now. I couldn't. But I'm thinking about possible new concepts that seem worthy to consider pursuing, whatever the approach to solve the commercial aspects

20:25 <Joerg-Neo900> the one I sketched above has one very nice aspect: modularity

21:27 <sicelo> read in another way, "22:23 <+Joerg-Neo900> and I'm not taking Neo900 anywhere right now. I couldn't." ... Neo900 dead? :-/

22:23 <Joerg-Neo900> sicelo: let's put it this way: There's no todo item on my list I could make happen, to push progress of the project. While lizerally everything is timerotting, from component availability to design considerations and market demand, to my own mental strength I'd need to drive all this

22:25 <Joerg-Neo900> so above a tried to do the only thing I still could do maybe: dream about new intriguing concepts that would bring new life to the project at large

22:25 <Joerg-Neo900> *I* tried*

22:35 <crox> anyone working on the todo items you can't work on?

22:36 <crox> (I guess pcb design is one of them?)

22:37 <crox> btw, I guess the focus should be now on 5g-capable modems anyway

22:37 <crox> as 5g is coming soon (at least the radio part, the core of the networks will stay 4g for a little longer)

23:09 <Joerg-Neo900> yes, "layout" is pole pos on todo. Together with "secure another 400 preorders and cases"

23:12 <Joerg-Neo900> we had Houkime working on layout, but seems he's just MIA

23:13 <Joerg-Neo900> 5G definitely isn't s topic for modems etc for the next few years, it's way too new

23:29 <Joerg-Neo900> not for nobodies like me ans Neo900 anyway

23:47 <crox> houkime is back :-)

23:47 <houkime> oh, sorry, i probably missed sth.

23:48 <crox> houkime, we were just wondering what the status of the layout work was

23:48 <houkime> checking irclog

23:51 <houkime> there is an RSS feed with git commits that atk made. Though I really MIA'd for several months on that

23:53 <houkime> motivation problems. Though recently I might have found extra reasons to continue so it may improve

23:55 <houkime> I remember stopped at display LED overvoltage/overcurrent control and stuff

23:56 <houkime> And i also remember that almost everything except this was basically done placement-wise

23:57 <houkime> And we were about to start a new cycle with timerotted part replacements and pcb house interactions to know routing limitations

23:59 <Joerg-Neo900> 5G comes - means some of the major carriers decide they need a new buzzword in their marketing.So for example Nokia tells TI "hey we need a SoC with 13 cores 77 gagahats each, except the praise-LE core which needs to be faster than 79, with a 7D Graphics Accel Get Astonished GAGA processor, and it needs 5 modems for WWAN integrated with at least one of them doing 5G worldwide coverage". Then 18 months later TI delivers first prototype samples

23:59 <Joerg-Neo900> of the chip to Nokia, with a field engineer (or a dozen of them) who knows the nickname and birthday of each gate in that SoC by heart, so Nokia and that engineer can try create a somewhat working device with the SoC even though TI can't deliver any TRMs and UM aka "datasheets" for the chip yet.