Xach changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/>
Fare has joined #lisp
patlv has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
akoana has joined #lisp
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
karlosz has joined #lisp
quazimodo has joined #lisp
patlv has joined #lisp
karlosz has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
lxpnh98 has joined #lisp
clothespin has joined #lisp
clothespin__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
william1 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
patlv has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
Kevslinger has joined #lisp
longshi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.6]
Oladon has joined #lisp
smokeink has joined #lisp
varjag has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
doublex_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
doublex_ has joined #lisp
EvW has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
Fare has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
vidak` has quit [Read error: No route to host]
bitmapper has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
fyrkrans has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
patlv has joined #lisp
patlv has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
patlv has joined #lisp
slyrus has joined #lisp
slyrus__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
remexre has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
kscarlet has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jealousmonk has quit [Quit: Leaving]
luna_is_here_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
patlv has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
kscarlet has joined #lisp
ealfonso has joined #lisp
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
khisanth_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<oni-on-ion> i like wiki.c2.com
lxpnh98 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<pilne> that's one of my favorite wikis
<pilne> i can get as lost there as i do in the scp wiki lol
khisanth_ has joined #lisp
clothespin_ has joined #lisp
<oni-on-ion> scp? =) so many great quotes on c2 i want to paste them all.
clothespin has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Lord_of_Life_ has joined #lisp
Lord_of_Life has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
notzmv has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
kscarlet has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.1)]
kscarlet has joined #lisp
notzmv has joined #lisp
atgreen has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
quazimodo has joined #lisp
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
quazimodo has joined #lisp
brown121407 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
slyrus_ has joined #lisp
slyrus has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
dddddd has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
Kundry_Wag has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
quazimodo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
karlosz has joined #lisp
karlosz has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kscarlet has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kscarlet has joined #lisp
quazimodo has joined #lisp
visage_ has joined #lisp
ebzzry has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
ealfonso has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
doublex__ has joined #lisp
doublex_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
lukego has joined #lisp
Lycurgus has joined #lisp
quazimodo has joined #lisp
ggole has joined #lisp
isBEKaml has joined #lisp
patlv has joined #lisp
gravicappa has joined #lisp
karlosz has joined #lisp
karlosz has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
port1024 has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
kscarlet has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kscarlet has joined #lisp
kscarlet` has joined #lisp
kscarlet has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
kscarlet` has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
<beach> Good morning everyone!
<oni-on-ion> hi beach! i wanted to say happy holidays yesterday but i was off to sleep. hope you had a good xmas ! [if it does not apply, pls ignore]
<beach> Thanks. Holidays are fine so far, hope yours are too. And today, at my latitude, there is going to be 23 seconds more daylight than yesterday.
<oni-on-ion> yep thanks, they were fine. above equator?
<beach> North of it, yes. :)
<oni-on-ion> ^_^ been reading c2 wiki a good part of the day. getting ready to put my nose to the grind as they say, come 2020
<beach> I see. I set as a goal to have a SICL executable before the end of 2019. That is not going to happen, but I made significant progress. I think I finished the conversion from MIR to LIR (for x86-64). Now I need to linearize LIR and turn it into x86-64 machine code.
<oni-on-ion> today i learned about gccemacs - native compiled elisp. haven't looked into it
<beach> Interesting.
<oni-on-ion> what was it turning into before x86-64? is ARM part of the picture at all ?
<beach> It isn't turning into anything yet. I can execute HIR (High-level Intermediate Representation) by using a HIR interpreter in a host Common Lisp implementation, but nothing native exists yet.
<beach> I have no plans for ARM yet.
torbo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<beach> When ARM happens, it will be ARM 64-bit version.
<beach> I am hoping that, once I have an executable, I can attract some more external help.
<beach> Oh, and the ELS deadline is creeping up. Time to get cracking on some papers.
<beach> My favorite coauthor is going solo this year, and I promised to have a look at her paper before she submits it.
gravicappa has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
<oni-on-ion> external help, yeah =) is it just you working on it ?
<oni-on-ion> i am going to keep my eye on ELS this year
<beach> I have help from heisig and scymtym on some libraries that we extracted. But yeah, mostly just me.
Kundry_Wag has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<beach> You should go to ELS. It is great place to be.
<oni-on-ion> i missed visiting my fam this xmas, i am not sure i can make it to euroland
<beach> Oh well.
<oni-on-ion> have you been to a lot of them ?
<beach> Yes, and I was the local organizer of the first one.
<oni-on-ion> 2020 is april, germany? i am saving up this year specifically for travel so we can see.
<oni-on-ion> ohh rad
<beach> Zürich in 2020. Shinmera is the local organizer.
<oni-on-ion> oh! are you guys both in EU ?
<beach> Well, technically Switzerland is not a member state, but otherwise, yes.
patlv has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
<beach> I am in France which is definitely in the EU.
<oni-on-ion> yeah =) sry im canadian but geographically uninclined. been realising most coders i look up to are in europe or have recently moved there. deep thought.
<beach> My impression is that most Common Lisp activity is in Europe at the moment.
<oni-on-ion> yeah. those whom i refer are all lispers in some form, else prolog. sprinkling of ocaml.
<beach> Sure.
<oni-on-ion> i can't even say "Common Lisp" when someone here asks me "what language do i use" at the local convention
<beach> People are strange.
<oni-on-ion> truth
<oni-on-ion> would you happen to have any thoughts on: "i had been wary of carrying around a Lisp image for deployment and development. but then I realise, the whole Unix/Posix system *is* the C image. which is quite a bit larger and much more complex in terms of versioning. "
<beach> I basically agree with that. Unix and Common Lisp are not a good match, which is why I am thinking in terms of CLOSOS.
<fiddlerwoaroof_> I tend to think of unix as the bash runtime
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
nika has joined #lisp
<oni-on-ion> why not call it CLOS ? because thats already a name? but why OS just on CLOS, and not from plain CL ?
<no-defun-allowed> CLOSOS -> Common Lisp Object System Operating System
<no-defun-allowed> My understanding is that OOP techniques are going to be very prevalent in CLOSOS, and CLOS is already taken for the forementioned Common Lisp Object System.
<beach> Yes, because CLOS is already a name. And because CLOS is an essential feature.
<oni-on-ion> yeah no-defun-allowed , but then also, System System ?? =)
<beach> no-defun-allowed: Nice summary.
<oni-on-ion> why not CLOOS ?
* no-defun-allowed has been thinking about trying to do OS development again
<no-defun-allowed> Perhaps standalone CL is what I need to get into it. I had tried once to write some drivers in a mock-Scheme interpreter in C, but it was not very fun and I gave up after writing a PC speaker driver.
<beach> oni-on-ion: Forget about the meaning. Pronounce it "Colosuss".
<beach> Er, Colossus.
<oni-on-ion> heh.
<oni-on-ion> no-defun-allowed, greenspun's 10th law !
brettgilio has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<beach> no-defun-allowed: Perhaps you would like to give some thought to object-oriented device drivers in Common Lisp, inspired by I/O Kit.?
<no-defun-allowed> beach: I think I've heard of it, but all the links I found for it were dead.
<oni-on-ion> that is a lot of work. there are a lot of devices.
<beach> Hmm. I haven't looked at it for some time.
<no-defun-allowed> And then, I think I would be lost without an interactive environment.
<beach> oni-on-ion: It's the architecture I am interested in. Once that is in place, others can help out.
isBEKaml has quit [Quit: leaving]
<beach> Maybe Mezzano can be used as a development environment?
isBEKaml has joined #lisp
<no-defun-allowed> beach: Wait, do you mean the macOS driver system?
<no-defun-allowed> I think I was thinking of some other free driver "kit".
<beach> Yes.
<beach> Create a CLOS architecture inspired by I/O Kit.
<oni-on-ion> hmmm. i can't see that, there are so many devices. the manpower is just ... well unless the UI is just so awesome that everyone gets pulled in.
<oni-on-ion> i think Squeak has an IOKit as well =)
<oni-on-ion> Common Object System Lisp System Operating System System
<fiddlerwoaroof_> Yeah, unless you pick a particular target system configuration, device drivers are the tedious part of os development
<beach> oni-on-ion: I am a researcher. The most important thing to me is to demonstrate feasibility.
<fiddlerwoaroof_> which is why most operating systems just target an emulator
<oni-on-ion> the testing, the specs, the NDAs, the deprecation, so much to device driver dev...
<oni-on-ion> beach, ah, fair enough ^_^
* no-defun-allowed wonders how she is hindering driver development
<beach> no-defun-allowed: Yes, that's it.
<oni-on-ion> i think throwing it on top of a bare naked linux kern would be feasible, so not worth really doing except practicality
<beach> no-defun-allowed: But it is possible that we can do better with CLOS.
<no-defun-allowed> Yeah, the IOKit seems to use a very sad subset of C++.
<oni-on-ion> CoreFoundation ?
<fiddlerwoaroof_> It would be interesting to see if CLOS can get fast enough for, say, a GPU driver
<oni-on-ion> (kind of like how GLib (gnu) simulates some of c++? its referenced on that link above, btw)
<beach> fiddlerwoaroof_: There is nothing intrinsically slow about CLOS.
zaquest has quit [Quit: Leaving]
sauvin has joined #lisp
<oni-on-ion> its definately 100% possible. but that is a lot of dirty code, its not made any easier with using CL at all.
<oni-on-ion> except minimizing code repetition
<fiddlerwoaroof_> Sure, but dynamic dispatch usually adds some overhead, right?
<no-defun-allowed> fiddlerwoaroof_: Theoretically, CLOSOS should be faster than Unix as it doesn't need context switches to handle I/O operations.
<beach> fiddlerwoaroof_: Not if my research is being used. :)
<oni-on-ion> fiddlerwoaroof_, for a driver, perhaps the driver itself is the CLOS object, where the code inside is less objectual and more "system" level
<fiddlerwoaroof_> my impression with both the GPU and sound cards is that you have pretty tight latency requirements as well as high throughput
<oni-on-ion> no-defun-allowed, single context? preemptive is it called?
<no-defun-allowed> But GPU drivers are a pain, so realistically, it won't happen soon.
<oni-on-ion> let's get ... okay how about this, let's get an interface that doing minecraft buids drivers. then we can just harness the enrgy...
<no-defun-allowed> oni-on-ion: The magic there is the single address space, allowing a "user" program to run driver code without a context switch or syscall.
<beach> Yes, we "just" need to have a good garbage collector.
<oni-on-ion> like genera, whole system access? ie. can break into whole image
<oni-on-ion> hmm
<beach> oni-on-ion: No, not at all. Multi-user with capabilities.
<oni-on-ion> ahh. wait why?
<oni-on-ion> i mean how come multi user? i somewhat miss the days before windows had a login screen
<oni-on-ion> could it be optional? not to shake your research though. is it practical to have single user OS ?
<beach> At least two users are needed. The end user and the administrator.
<fiddlerwoaroof_> Only if you conflate the concept of a role and a user
narimiran has joined #lisp
<beach> Call it what you want. Role is fine with me.
<oni-on-ion> at one point i was using root for linux because i wanted to eliminate the need for su/sudo and checking what i can use under whom. ie. "iwconfig: no program found" under regular user
<oni-on-ion> fiddlerwoaroof_, ahh, like winnt?? sounds terrible =)
<beach> It is looking more and more as if I am about to retype the entire CLOSOS paper here, so I think I'll quit.
<oni-on-ion> alright. i am getting some of my own ideas after all.
<fiddlerwoaroof_> oni-on-ion: have you seen https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano
<oni-on-ion> ohh! i have not, thank you =)
<fiddlerwoaroof_> Last time I tried, I couldn't get the released disk images to boot :( but, they worked at one point
<fiddlerwoaroof_> And it's pretty actively developed
<fiddlerwoaroof_> So they must work for someone
<oni-on-ion> i am wondering, how come low level things are mentioned in the "changes" - is it doing its own lisp?
<fiddlerwoaroof_> yes
<oni-on-ion> ah there is a channel. sorry, i will check it out
<oni-on-ion> ok =)
<fiddlerwoaroof_> it's a new implementation of CL
<oni-on-ion> thats interesting. i wonder why still - perhaps it is also research project
<fiddlerwoaroof_> I think it's more of a "why not?" in this case
<oni-on-ion> ah ^_^
<fiddlerwoaroof_> froggey also wrote a llvm IR -> CL compiler and, I think, used it to run Doom inside Mezzano
<oni-on-ion> ohh, thats smart
<markasoftware> let's say I have a macro (defmacro with-foo-as-bar (&body body) `(let ((foo "bar")) ,@body))
<markasoftware> Then, if i call this from a different package as (original-package:with-foo-as-bar foo), it will throw an error
<markasoftware> I understand this behavior. The package for `foo` must be determined at read-time.
visage_ has quit [Quit: visage_]
<markasoftware> I'm stuck on how to fix it, though.
<markasoftware> All the builtin macros that do something like this take the variable to be bound as an argument. For example, (with-output-to-string (foo) ...) takes my foo symbol as an argument, so it doesn't need to care about which package thing sare happening in
akoana has left #lisp ["Leaving"]
<markasoftware> I think the right answer to my question is just "don't do that" but I'd be interested in hearing if there's another way.
rippa has joined #lisp
<oni-on-ion> there is a way, but my head is in fog to see it
slyrus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<oni-on-ion> not just by (in-package) but i think the kind of thing you attempt should be welcomed for macros, as substitution is the meat
slyrus has joined #lisp
vlatkoB has joined #lisp
<beach> markasoftware: Yes, that's why the standard macros take the symbol as an argument.
<fiddlerwoaroof_> markasoftware: (let ((foo-sym (intern "FOO"))) `(let ((,foo-sym "bar")) ...))
Kundry_Wag has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<fiddlerwoaroof_> I believe INTERN will do the right thing, because *PACKAGE* is dynamically bound, but this sort of side-effect is usually a bad idea
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
<fiddlerwoaroof_> The basic trick, though, is to manually create the symbol in the appropriate package.
<fiddlerwoaroof_> Also, this sort of "anaphoric" macro is usually more confusing than it's worth, since it introduces non-lexical names
quazimodo has joined #lisp
<fiddlerwoaroof_> non-lically-apparent names, that is
Lycurgus has quit [Quit: https://meansofproduction.biz Exit Quassel.]
oni-on-ion has quit [Quit: Quit]
slyrus_ has joined #lisp
slyrus has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
quazimodo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Oladon has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
quazimodo has joined #lisp
ealfonso has joined #lisp
gravicappa has joined #lisp
pagnol has joined #lisp
<pagnol> Is anyone here writing DDL statements for a common rdbms in some kind of LISP?
<pagnol> I like Postmodern and would like to extend the approach to DDLs
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
gabiruh_ has joined #lisp
<phoe> I think that Postmodern allows you to create tables in its own lispy way
<fiddlerwoaroof_> Yeah, it has a couple ways to do that
<fiddlerwoaroof_> including something like (postmodern:execute (:create :table "foo"...))
gabiruh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
pagnol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
smokeink has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
smokeink has joined #lisp
pagnol has joined #lisp
<flip214> Is there an NaCl or libsodium compatible extension for IronClad?
_whitelogger has joined #lisp
beach has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
pagnol has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
beach has joined #lisp
<boeg> Can anyone recommend a library for handling CLI arguments? I'm currently using unix-opts (https://github.com/libre-man/unix-opts) but it seems to be missing some things, like default value, requiring either this or that argument, and some other things i'm looking for, and if there is a library out there that has more of these features, it might be worth it to switch to it for me
<jackdaniel> boeg: net.didierverna.clon
<jackdaniel> navigate to a homepage, it has well written manuals
terpri has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<boeg> jackdaniel: thanks, ill give it a try!
_whitelogger has joined #lisp
_whitelogger has joined #lisp
william1 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
_paul0 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
_paul0 has joined #lisp
nirved has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
nirved has joined #lisp
ealfonso has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
ealfonso has joined #lisp
jonatack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
isBEKaml has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
isBEKaml has joined #lisp
kscarlet has joined #lisp
kscarlet has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.1)]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
pagnol has joined #lisp
narimiran has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
pete98759845 has joined #lisp
je4i has joined #lisp
jeosol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Bourne has joined #lisp
jonatack has joined #lisp
pete98759845 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
dale has quit [Quit: My computer has gone to sleep]
jonatack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
quazimodo has joined #lisp
jonatack has joined #lisp
heisig has joined #lisp
ealfonso has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
Arcaelyx has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Duuqnd has joined #lisp
isBEKaml has quit [Quit: leaving]
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
pagnol has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
ebzzry has joined #lisp
cosimone has joined #lisp
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
quazimodo has joined #lisp
dmiles has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
dmiles has joined #lisp
luna_is_here_ has joined #lisp
D0dei has joined #lisp
akanouras has quit [Quit: killed]
Gnuxie[m] has quit [Quit: killed]
nonlinear[m] has quit [Quit: killed]
keep-learning[m] has quit [Quit: killed]
LdBeth has quit [Quit: killed]
EuAndreh[m] has quit [Quit: killed]
Jachy has quit [Quit: killed]
no-defun-allowed has quit [Quit: killed]
eriix[m] has quit [Quit: killed]
Irenes[m] has quit [Quit: killed]
shaakyamuni[m] has quit [Quit: killed]
djeis[m] has quit [Quit: killed]
katco has quit [Quit: killed]
malaclyps[m] has quit [Quit: killed]
brown121407 has joined #lisp
<D0dei> Hello guys, anyone have ever tried out lispworks as cl ide?
notzmv has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
<dlowe> I have
<dlowe> They have a personal edition that you can try out for free
<D0dei> Did you ever used it on linux?
<p_l> D0dei: it works well
<p_l> (on linux)
<D0dei> I'm experiencing some problems with the installation
<p_l> the personal edition no longer works on Mac, though
<D0dei> because everything works fine, but only through command line
<D0dei> I would like to have a gui, instead
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
_whitelogger has joined #lisp
Bourne has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
atgreen has joined #lisp
pagnol has joined #lisp
cosimone has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
narimiran has joined #lisp
cosimone has joined #lisp
Bourne has joined #lisp
cosimone has quit [Excess Flood]
cosimone has joined #lisp
quazimodo has joined #lisp
quazimodo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
pagnol has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
quazimodo has joined #lisp
<je4i> did zou try their mailing list lisp-hug@lispworks.com?
<je4i> *you
isBEKaml has joined #lisp
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
quazimodo has joined #lisp
cosimone has quit [Quit: Terminated!]
william1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
nonlinear[m] has joined #lisp
EuAndreh[m] has joined #lisp
akanouras has joined #lisp
katco has joined #lisp
eriix[m] has joined #lisp
shaakyamuni[m] has joined #lisp
keep-learning[m] has joined #lisp
djeis[m] has joined #lisp
Irenes[m] has joined #lisp
LdBeth has joined #lisp
malaclyps[m] has joined #lisp
Gnuxie[m] has joined #lisp
no-defun-allowed has joined #lisp
Jachy has joined #lisp
mathrick has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
atgreen has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
random-nick has joined #lisp
_jrjsmrtn has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
__jrjsmrtn__ has joined #lisp
lemoinem has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
jonatack has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
jonatack has joined #lisp
EvW1 has joined #lisp
lemoinem has joined #lisp
dddddd has joined #lisp
quazimodo has quit [Quit: leaving]
quazimodo has joined #lisp
jonatack has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
isBEKaml has quit [Quit: leaving]
ralt has joined #lisp
mathrick has joined #lisp
smokeink has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
X-Scale has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
quazimodo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
mathrick has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
patlv has joined #lisp
quazimodo has joined #lisp
FreeBirdLjj has joined #lisp
FreeBirdLjj has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<Xach> markasoftware: another option is to make FOO external and :use or :import/import it.
ebrasca has joined #lisp
ebrasca has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
akrl has joined #lisp
LiamH has joined #lisp
Arcaelyx has joined #lisp
mathrick has joined #lisp
_whitelogger has joined #lisp
Lord_of_Life_ has joined #lisp
Lord_of_Life has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
<beach> Remind me what some of the reasons might be that ASDF recompiles the components of a system that I just compiled?
<beach> I seem to remember this issue having been discussed, but I don't remember any details.
<beach> Alternatively, perhaps someone could suggest to me what to do in order to investigate the problem.
<jackdaniel> beach: asdf looks at the modification date of a file, if it is newer than the compiled fasl then everything starting from this file is recompiled. could it be it?
<beach> I don't think so.
<beach> The source file is from October 16, and the FASL file it overwrites is from today.
<beach> The first file that is compiled that is.
clothespin_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
patlv has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
patlv has joined #lisp
patlv has quit [Client Quit]
<MichaelRaskin> It considers all dependencies — including, by the way, itself.
<beach> I don't know what that information implies.
<MichaelRaskin> How did you compile the system?
<MichaelRaskin> How you are now loading it?
<beach> (asdf:load-system '#:sicl-boot)
<MichaelRaskin> Both times?
<beach> It is probably some silly mistake, but I don't know how to debug it.
<beach> Yes, as many times as I like.
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<beach> Maybe I should start by flushing the FASL cache in case there is something strange in there.
raghavgururajan has joined #lisp
quazimodo has joined #lisp
<beach> Nope, same problem.
fortitude has joined #lisp
clothespin has joined #lisp
<beach> I thought I might have some source file with a date in the future, but that is not the case.
<MichaelRaskin> Maybe it is time to trace safe-file-write-date ?
<MichaelRaskin> I guess it is uiop/filesystem::safe-file-write-date
<pfdietz> This system I want to use has poor test coverage. I know what I'll be doing this weekend.
<beach> Yes, it seems to be. What would tracing it tell me?
<pfdietz> If I move tests to a commonly used test framework (in CL), which one should I use?
<MichaelRaskin> You will see what files ASDF checks (in the sense of timestamps) to decide whether to recompile things
<beach> Ah, OK. Let me try it.
<beach> By the way, the documentation string for that function uses the wrong terminology. :(
<jackdaniel> pfdietz: common recommendations are fiveam and fiasco
<pfdietz> If I vaguely recall correctly 5am gets more usage. Locally we seem to be using stefil though.
<beach> MichaelRaskin: I am afraid I don't understand what to look for.
<beach> MichaelRaskin: Never mind. I'll look for it some other time. It is not that big a problem. Just disconcerting.
varjag has joined #lisp
<MichaelRaskin> Maybe you should also trace compute-action-stamp
heisig has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<MichaelRaskin> There you can see what is considered stale
<beach> I'll try it.
<pfdietz> In the quicklisp dist, fiveam/5am seems to have more than an order of magnitude more use than fiasco.
sjl has joined #lisp
<beach> MichaelRaskin: I probably need to read up on what these functions do first. Thanks for your help. Now I need to go start dinner preparations.
<MichaelRaskin> Have a nice dinner
LiamH has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
LiamH has joined #lisp
<pfdietz> Looks like fiveam, then prove, then everything else much less used.
<Shinmera> prove is pretty bad though, I honestly don't understand how it got so popular.
LiamH1 has joined #lisp
LiamH has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
hhdave has joined #lisp
<pfdietz> So, fiveam is the default. I should also weight these by how old/unmaintained the systems are.
<pfdietz> Of the others, lisp-unit, then lift, then rove, then a herd of little used frameworks.
jonatack has joined #lisp
<pfdietz> rt is used 31 times. I think it appears 10 times copied in various places in QL. :)
<Xach> the birth of vendoring
bitmapper has joined #lisp
LiamH1 is now known as LiamH
<pfdietz> The other thing one notices doing this is how many systems in a QL dist lack tests.
<pfdietz> Ideally they'd all have tests, and all report the test results in some automation-friendly way.
<flip214> luis: current slime head gives me undefined variable: SWANK:*COMMUNICATION-STYLE*
<pfdietz> Why does Cliki list COVER as obsolete?
<luis> flip214: at what stage?
dra has joined #lisp
je4i has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<flip214> luis: checking whether old FASL are the problem, one sec
cosimone has joined #lisp
EvW1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<flip214> luis: sorry, seems to be resolved now
slyrus__ has joined #lisp
slyrus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
nullniverse has joined #lisp
nullniverse has quit [Changing host]
nullniverse has joined #lisp
hhdave has quit [Quit: hhdave]
zaquest has joined #lisp
manualcrank has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1]
oni-on-ion has joined #lisp
nika has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
nika has joined #lisp
slyrus_ has joined #lisp
slyrus__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
brown121407 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
brown121407 has joined #lisp
<luis> flip214: did you figure out what happened?
dra has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ebrasca has joined #lisp
slyrus__ has joined #lisp
Necktwi has joined #lisp
slyrus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
smokeink has joined #lisp
jeosol has joined #lisp
je4i has joined #lisp
Oladon has joined #lisp
smokeink has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
jkvl has joined #lisp
frgo has quit []
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
frgo has joined #lisp
ArthurStrong has joined #lisp
gareppa has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
smokeink has joined #lisp
gareppa has quit [Quit: Leaving]
mn3m has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
smokeink has quit [Quit: Leaving]
ggole has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<Xach> happy quicklispdistmas!
<slyrus__> santa didn't bring me an XLS parser :( must have been on the wrong list.
<slyrus__> but happy new release to you too!
cosimone has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
cosimone has joined #lisp
<MichaelRaskin> slyrus__: I think you were on the wrong list when you received a need for XLS parser…
baby_yoda_squadr has joined #lisp
<MichaelRaskin> slyrus__: did you consider burgled-batteries + UNO + LibreOffice?
je4i` has joined #lisp
je4i has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
nika has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<flip214> luis: some FASL resp. image caching issue - purged my ~/.slime/fasl and recompiled
SaganMan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
sauvin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Bourne has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
cosimone has quit [Quit: Quit.]
je4i`` has joined #lisp
clothespin has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
frgo has quit []
je4i` has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
ahungry has joined #lisp
frgo has joined #lisp
jkvl has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
raghavgururajan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
je4i`` has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.3.1)]
je4i has joined #lisp
monokrom has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
brettgilio has joined #lisp
EvW has joined #lisp
<prumnopytis> Xach: Thank you for quicklisp.
<pfdietz> lisp-xl is inadequate, I assume
rippa has quit [Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER]
X-Scale has joined #lisp
cosimone has joined #lisp
baby_yoda_squadr has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Bourne has joined #lisp
clothespin has joined #lisp
<Xach> prumnopytis: you're welcome
scymtym has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
scymtym has joined #lisp
jkvl has joined #lisp
<pfdietz> (ql:update-dist "quicklisp")
jmercouris has joined #lisp
<jmercouris> how can I strip HTML from a string? existing library?
<jmercouris> "<p>Hello world</p>"-> "Hello World"
<jmercouris> in case it was not clear
<Xach> I can't think of a library offhand.
<jmercouris> I was afraid it was going to come down to regex joy
Achylles has joined #lisp
<White_Flame> probably the cleanest would be to load it into a HTML or XML reader, then traverse and concatenate all the plain text spans
<White_Flame> depending on how messy the HTML is
<jmercouris> the HTML could be anything, it is any site
<jmercouris> I'm trying to capture the text contents (if they exist) between the anchor tags on a site
<jmercouris> <a href="about:blank">This is the text I want</a>
<jmercouris> sometimes it could be an image, etc
<White_Flame> yeah, use a hTML library
<White_Flame> don't try to fiddle with it at the character level
<White_Flame> there's way too many edge cases
shifty has joined #lisp
<jmercouris> I know many libraries that go from SEXP-> HTML, but I don't know any libraries that load HTML as a string and create entities
<jmercouris> do you know of one?
<White_Flame> no, I've only generated HTML from lisp, not read it
<Xach> (just searching a little on quickdocs)
<jmercouris> for future readers, something like this could work: https://github.com/archimag/cl-sanitize
brown121407 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<jmercouris> Plump could also work
brown121408 has joined #lisp
<MichaelRaskin> There is html5-parser, too
<MichaelRaskin> That's what I use in Thoughtful-Theridion
<jmercouris> MichaelRaskin: https://github.com/rotatef/cl-html5-parser?
<MichaelRaskin> Yes, I think so
<MichaelRaskin> If you need to pick a specific tag, you might want to use css-selectors
<jmercouris> Xach: I thought you didn't like quickdocs?
<Xach> jmercouris: i do not like the name, but the service is useful
<jmercouris> I see
narimiran has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<jmercouris> here's something interesting
<jmercouris> (ql:quickload :cl-sanitize) -> system not found
<jmercouris> (ql:system-apropos "sanitize") -> #<SYSTEM sanitize / cl-sanitize-20130720-git / quicklisp 2019-10-08>
<jmercouris> in this case I had to do :sanitize
<MichaelRaskin> So, load sanitize
<jmercouris> my question is, why doesnt cl-sanitize also work?
<MichaelRaskin> The repository is cl-sanitize
<jmercouris> aha!
<MichaelRaskin> But .asd file is sanitize.asd
<jmercouris> so one is the system, one is the repository name
<jmercouris> you know what
<jmercouris> in hindsight that should be quite obvious
<jmercouris> since it says "-git"
torbo has joined #lisp
vlatkoB has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mathrick has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<galdor> I tried to contact lisp works people last weekend using lisp-support@lispworks.com (I could not find a generic contact address) regarding legal information about CLHS but haven't received any answer
<galdor> does someone know a more suitable contact address ?
<jmercouris> that is a suitable address, I have a personal address.. but I don't know if they would appreciate it being given out
<jmercouris> they will respond, perhaps ping them again
baby_yoda_squadr has joined #lisp
<ahungry> is there any way for clhs or a clhs equivalent to be FOSS? The clhs source material itself is copyright ANSI or something right?
<Xach> galdor: what kind of question did you have? i know a little bit.
<Xach> ahungry: the source material is available in the public domain.
<Xach> ahungry: in the past few years there have been several parallel efforts to make a new html doc from it
<Shinmera> jmercouris: (plump:text (plump:parse ...))
<galdor> I'd like to write a small stylesheet to at least fix the white background and limit the width of text blocks; but it requires small modifications (linking the CSS file in all HTML docs)
<galdor> and modifications are explicitely prohibited by the license of the CLHS
<galdor> so I asked if publishing the CSS file and instructions on how to patch the HTML files (maybe even a script) would be fine
<Xach> galdor: ok. i cannot answer for them but the answer is yes it is fine.
<galdor> I fail to see why it would be a problem, but asking first felt like the polite thing to do
<jmercouris> Shinmera: thank you
<ahungry> Xach: interesting, thanks, that is good to know - the source material = ANSI stuff? not the CLHS itself?
<Xach> ahungry: dpans3 is the thing i mean, the final tex sources of the spec.
<Xach> galdor: in this case it is not
<jmercouris> Shinmera: do you think I should use plump or sanitize?
<jmercouris> both work just fine
<Shinmera> galdor: If you publish it as a userstyle that others can add it's fine since you're not redistributing the modified clhs yourself.
<Shinmera> jmercouris: I have no experience with sanitize, so I have no opinion.
<jmercouris> Shinmera: is Plump useful in general?
<Shinmera> uh
je4i has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.3.1)]
<Shinmera> I don't know how to answer that
<Shinmera> It's an HTML/XML parser.
<jmercouris> I can read the README too
<galdor> since we're talking about it, what's the rationale behind not allowing redistribution ?
<jmercouris> I'm just wondering if I should bring it in for extra functionality it may offer in the future...
<Shinmera> Plump won't change in the future, it's pretty done and works well.
<jmercouris> I meant that cl-sanitize is pretty one dimensional basically only exposing one thing
<jmercouris> whereas with Plump one could theoretically do more things
<jmercouris> just wondering if that day will come or not...
<Shinmera> Well, there's libraries that build on it.
<jmercouris> Plump it is
<jmercouris> SOLD!
dale_ has joined #lisp
dale_ is now known as dale
<Shinmera> lquery is an extension some people seem to enjoy, for example.
baby_yo92 has joined #lisp
baby_yo92 has quit [Client Quit]
baby_yo22 has joined #lisp
jkvl has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
baby_yo22 has quit [Quit: -a- IRC for Android 2.1.55]
baby_yo23 has joined #lisp
baby_yo23 has quit [Client Quit]
baby_yoda_squadr has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
baby_yoda_squadr has joined #lisp
<Shinmera> cool
old_yoda has joined #lisp
cosimone has quit [Quit: Quit.]
baby_yoda_squadr has quit [Client Quit]
gravicappa has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<_death> Xach: I wonder.. when you make a new quicklisp release sometimes systems get removed due to not building.. did you consider using the versions from the last quicklisp release instead, assuming that they build?
baby_yoda_squadr has joined #lisp
baby_yoda_squadr has quit [Client Quit]
lispyone_ has joined #lisp
torbo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Shinmera> They probably don't build anymore due to dependencies or the implementation changing and the authors being unresponsive about maintenance.
nullniverse has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<_death> if it's due to dependencies, yeah, that wouldn't help.. but if it's due to a change in the system itself it could.. personally I only half-use quicklisp so not really affected, but seeing something like gbbopen removed..
fortitude has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
old_yoda has left #lisp ["Leaving"]
baby_yoda_squadr has joined #lisp
baby_yoda_squadr has quit [Client Quit]
baby_yoda_squadr has joined #lisp
<Shinmera> If there's a change in the system itself Xach usually files issues with the project
<Shinmera> In my experience things only get removed if the maintainers are unresponsive. Can't hold up the entire world because a few projects can't keep up.
<Xach> _death: i do that sometimes.
<MichaelRaskin> A bit better package-local-nicknames support, and having an older version of dependency in the image will even be easy
<Xach> _death: one problem is that new sbcls break programs so keeping the old version makes no difference.
<Xach> i reached out to dan corkill several times about gbbopen using an sbcl internal, for example, but no response.
<_death> Xach: yeah, I apparently had a local fix for that
<_death> if it's the sb-impl::output-float-infinity thing
<Xach> yes
<Xach> or similar
william1 has joined #lisp
karlosz has joined #lisp
zooey has joined #lisp
clothespin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<_death> but I think I made that change quite a while ago, so interesting that it only got removed now
<_death> do you keep non-building stuff in releases for a while before "giving up"?
jmercouris has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
william1 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1]
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
william1 has joined #lisp
<Xach> _death: yes
notzmv has joined #lisp
<_death> I see. thanks
Achylles has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
clothespin has joined #lisp
fortitude has joined #lisp
sjl has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3-dev]
ebrasca has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ahungry` has joined #lisp
ahungry has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
manualcrank has joined #lisp
atgreen has joined #lisp
efm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
LiamH has left #lisp [#lisp]
slyrus_ has joined #lisp
slyrus__ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
clothespin_ has joined #lisp
clothespin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
zcid has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ArthurStrong has quit [Quit: leaving]
ahungry` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
efm has joined #lisp
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
william1 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]