<fiddlerwoaroof>
fouric: the issue I've had is that they don't have access to the type inference information that some implementations compute)
<fiddlerwoaroof>
(of course type inference is an implementation detail in CL, so you'd need to standardize that too)
<Bike>
they usually compute typestuff after compiler macros would have run. rip.
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<fouric>
ty ty
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<emaczen>
Does anyone know how to build a standalone jar file with ABCL?
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<emaczen>
or really what I want is a standalone application
<p_l>
emaczen: while not exactly the answer, any good old description for making "uberjar" manually should work
<emaczen>
what is uberjar?
<fiddlerwoaroof>
A standalone jar file
<p_l>
emaczen: essentially, uberjar is "pack everything necessary into one jar"
<p_l>
which might include multiple jars inside
<p_l>
an infinitely recursive matrioshka doll of jars is even possible
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<emaczen>
p_l: Do you know what to do with a .abcl file?
<p_l>
emaczen: what do you mean? ABCL init file? I would put its contents in the start code of the jar
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<emaczen>
cl:compile-file in the implementation of ABCL creates a "file.abcl" which has some loader and then in my case 86 .cls files
<emaczen>
the loader is some ABCL specific lisp code
<emaczen>
p_l: I've looked through the ABCL manual, and that is as much information as you will get...
<p_l>
emaczen: I am not current on ABCL, but worst case you might have to write a short Java class (with Main method) that inits ABCL and gives it that file
<emaczen>
p_l: I'm fine with something like that, but I was hoping there is documentation or someone who has built a standalone application.
<p_l>
unfortunately it's pretty rarely used implementation :(
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<emaczen>
I tried it last year, but I didn't like that I couldn't extend java classes via CLOS
<emaczen>
But if you don't wish to do hardly anything in Java other than use a few classes, it is really good.
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<emaczen>
The documentation for file-write-date seems a little unclear -- it is the last time written or when it was created?
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<aeth>
unfortunately, because it's rare a lot of libraries don't run on it
<aeth>
but the JVM world seems to be off doing its own thing so I'm surprised to even see it that popular on the implementation stats
<jcowan>
Perhaps ABCL users tend to use Java libs rather than QL.
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<jcowan>
it would be interesting to see similar stats for downloads of the implementations themselves
<aeth>
I think it's similar for the two popular proprietary implementations. They sort of have their own ecosystem, so they're probably undercounted a bit
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
<anniepoo_>
morning beach
<anniepoo_>
8cD
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<emaczen>
morning beach
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<LdBeth>
heoolo
<anniepoo_>
howdy
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<Inline>
morning
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<flip214>
beach: any answer from root@gitlab.c-l.n regarding your password resp. ALEXANDRIA?
<flip214>
if not, I can try to reach ehuilsman directly
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<beach>
Yes, "I'll look into it and get back to you".
<beach>
The answer is from him.
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<flip214>
ah, okay. thanks!
<beach>
I am sure he is doing this as a volunteer, so I don't want to push too hard.
<flip214>
now I feel as if I hacked into your email account, which I didn't, of course
<flip214>
yeah, understood.
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<beach>
But it's being worked on.
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<flip214>
any message "in progress" is good enough for a week or two.
<beach>
Yeah.
<flip214>
I'm sorry, I didn't want to hurry _you_ now!
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<beach>
No, it's fine. Don't worry.
<flip214>
ack, thanks
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<ecraven>
which part of the CLHS should I look at to understand when a redefinition of a function is allowed? (interactively via SLIME on a running image)
<anamorphic>
Hi, I'm using NET.HEXAPODIA.HASHTABLES
<anamorphic>
genhash and annoyingly register-test-designator throws an error if a designator is already registered. Is there any reason why it couldn't provide a restart? I know it's a CDR2 an all, so had wondered if it's a spec thing
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<djeis[m]>
encraven: What do you mean by "allowed"?
<djeis[m]>
Sorry, ecraven
<ecraven>
well, can I just redefine existing any function in any package at any time, and it will work?
<djeis[m]>
For some degree of work, strictly speaking yes.
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<djeis[m]>
On some implementations redefining functions in the CL packages triggers an error, and by the spec the consequences of those redefinitions are undefined. Otherwise, technically, yes.
<ecraven>
so if an implementation inlines some functions, it has to take care to recompile everything depending on a function if it is redefined?
<djeis[m]>
No.
<djeis[m]>
But, user defined functions won't get inlined unless you ask.
<djeis[m]>
And those functions still can be redefined, you just have to recompile everything which uses those functions for the update to propogate.
<djeis[m]>
It's a bit of a pedantic distinction, but I'd say an important one- redefinition means something very specific in the case of functions, and it doesn't include things like inlined functions.
<djeis[m]>
The same thing is true of macros, really- if you redefine a macro you still have to recompile everything which uses the macro.
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<djeis[m]>
Another place where that shows up is when you use 'func vs #'func. Redefinition updates the symbol, so if you call 'func it'll get updated. #'func, on the other hand, captures the actual function object and that does not get modified in-place.
<ecraven>
hm.. thanks, quite a lot to think about ;)
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<p_l>
Automatic recompile of inlining functions requires a who-calls database and most implementations don't provide one
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<stylewarning>
I would be against auto-recompiling
<stylewarning>
It would be against the principles of interactivity and incremental dev
<on_ion>
julia seems to pull something off
<stylewarning>
I would be fearful of re-compiling functions I didn’t explicitly ask for, esp. if I’m developing them.
<|3b|>
(and in general those are good guidelines for any package you don't control)
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<|3b|>
and redefining a function generally won't affect any running instances of that function (including those waiting on a call to some other function)
<|3b|>
also unspecified when standard functions look up function bindings from symbols, so a running (mapcar 'foo ...) might see a redefined FOO on next iteration, or not at all. next call to (mapcar 'foo ...) would see new definition though
<|3b|>
(and i doubt most user functions specify that either, but probably tend to do the lazy thing and let funcall resolve it so would see redefinitions)
<LdBeth>
This is a matter of top down or bottom up practice
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<on_ion>
meet/meat in the middle?
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<on_ion>
stylewarning: i may have been thinking of JIT in general; ie. in julia if you call a function for specialized types that has not been yet required/compiled, it will do so
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<jcowan>
The question is, are running functions decompiled when they are changed out from under you?
<djeis[m]>
...decompiled?
<jcowan>
Converted back to bytecode, or source, or whatever.
<on_ion>
jcowan: yep. well if they are changed
<on_ion>
oh, no
<on_ion>
always native code in julia
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<jcowan>
That apparently isn't the rght name for what I'm talking about
<jcowan>
deoptimization, that's it
<on_ion>
ah. julia keeps around generic versions and type-dispatched versions and etc., likely it would have the least-optimized version as the most generic
<jcowan>
explains how the Graal compiler (the latest JIT engine in Oracle JVM) dynamically deoptimizes code when its assumptions are violated.
<jcowan>
The primordial JIT (HP APL, 1977) already did this, first assuming that the rank and shape of all variables was fixed, and checking this at the beginning of a line of APL. If the assumptions were false, it deoptimized the code to assume only rank constancy, and then recompiled only if a variable changed rank (which hardly ever happens)
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<p_l>
Isn't Graal AOT?
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<p_l>
Or maybe I'm mixing stuff
<on_ion>
Graal is a game
<on_ion>
oh
<on_ion>
and that thing as well.
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