<willmore>
montjoie, do the ARMv8 AES instructions help GCM? I would think so.
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<willmore>
Looking at the wikipedia page for GCM (which is horrible), it looks like AES acceleration instructions should help.
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<willmore>
The best I can tell, both the H5 and H6 have the AES and all the hash extensions. It should be possible to use the AES instructions to accelerate AES-GCM.
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<montjoie>
willmore: grey-bit want offload and not acceleration, but I still dont understand why the CE does not have GCM (and have some other useless stuff)
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<MoeIcenowy>
montjoie: GCM is too new?
<montjoie>
GCM is 10years old
<montjoie>
2007 exactly, so sun8i-ce could have it
<montjoie>
my dream, H7 came with a sun8i-ce with four real parallel stream of AES(gcm/xts), bonus point for real acceleration (not just offload)
<KotCzarny>
montjoie: isnt it already in h5?
<KotCzarny>
arm64 cores support aes accel
<KotCzarny>
and there are 4 of them
<KotCzarny>
:)
<KotCzarny>
so no real incentive to add crypto engine anymore
<KotCzarny>
it was in the past when arm cores were so slow in aes
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<montjoie>
I want offloaded acceleration
<anarsoul>
it's not necessarily faster
<KotCzarny>
10x faster than any cryptoengine in allwinner socs?
<KotCzarny>
and many of non-allwinner too
<KotCzarny>
in some cases even 100x faster
<anarsoul>
KotCzarny: I mean crypto engine is not necessarily faster
<KotCzarny>
in the past socs/x86 cpus it made sense to have one, i remember old via c7 that really benefitted from it
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<willmore>
I don't think the silicon cost makes a separate module make sense any more. Adding AES and hashing extensions to the ARM processor is just flicking a switch in the processor design software and provides a much easier to use experience for the programmer.
<willmore>
Vs a custom silicon module (which uses up precious die area) and has to be designed and tested only to ultimately end up with a new driver that someone has to code (more design and testing) to make use of it.
<willmore>
Plus, it's going to be inherently less flexable than what software can do. And probably slower. :( I have to agree, the era of crypto accelerators are probably past. They just don't pay off.
<willmore>
The only place where I see them making sense is if a copy/DMA is already involved in an operation, so a storage or network controller with protocol specific crypto support. But that's a lot harder to do and to get right--and would require special drivers as I don't think there's really anything in the kernel that supports that kind of layer mixing.
<willmore>
Crypto is always done at a much higher protocol layer than that.
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<[TheBug]>
willmore: while I imagine there are many other use cases -- I imagine in some cases people are wanting the crypto engine to leverage it for something like LUKS drive encrption -- for example on the Marvel Armada platform the included crypto engine (while limited in ciphers*) can be leveraged to improve LUKS encrypted volume performance by using the crypto engine instead of having to use
<[TheBug]>
additional CPU time for that work, which in the case of most of their boards generally being Dual 1Ghz cores only, actually make a difference in overall system performance. Past that though, I tend to agree -- other than very specific use cases there are not many general use cases where the software method isn't as provductive or productive enough to be usable where you don't need the
<[TheBug]>
dedicated crypto engine.
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<montjoie>
ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah each crypto driver I test is broken at least in next and/or mainline, rockchip, omap, virtio, caam ....
<KotCzarny>
:)
<KotCzarny>
how about old via padlock?
<montjoie>
yes I try to collect all crypto hw
<montjoie>
KotCzarny: I need to find one
<KotCzarny>
they were usually bundled with via c3/c7 cpus
<KotCzarny>
thin client terminal often featured them
<montjoie>
I know that some will be hard to find like one on sparc niagara
<KotCzarny>
before i switched to sbcs i liked to abuse those thin clients as home server/desktop
<KotCzarny>
i can send you mine if you want
<KotCzarny>
it's gethering dust in the closet anyway
<montjoie>
can it boot via network ?
<KotCzarny>
probably, i would've to dig it out to confirm
<montjoie>
(pxe)
<KotCzarny>
but since it's a thin client i would bet that it can
<montjoie>
the pxe need to be managed via a serial console
<KotCzarny>
in the worst case one could preload uboot and do pxe that way
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<KotCzarny>
yeah, it has rtl8110C chip with addon rom and pxe is one of the options
<KotCzarny>
oh wow
<KotCzarny>
it even booted after all those years
<ullbeking>
does anybody know of a project
<ullbeking>
ooops
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<ullbeking>
does anybody know of a project, for example, the kind of thing that you see on hackaday, where you can build a cheap, small computer based on something like OPi, a 7" display (or thereabouts, maybe larger), and a couple of drives. something like a laptop but not as slick. i'm thinking of a small, cheap, desktop computer like a NUC, that can be easily carried around, e.g., in a small box.
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<ullbeking>
one issue obviously is the need for SATA interfaces that are not simply USB-to-SATA adapters
<KotCzarny>
check on the cnx-software page
<ullbeking>
will do KotCzarny
<KotCzarny>
there were few such project, just search
<ullbeking>
thanks
<KotCzarny>
but best is to buy second hand laptop with optical bay
<KotCzarny>
for example dell e6330 can host 2x2.5" drives and a msata card
<ullbeking>
yes indeed, this could be best option in practice
<KotCzarny>
not 7" but still portable AND fast
<KotCzarny>
and can be gotten for 50-100usd second hand
<ullbeking>
yes, it's for somebody else, and they don't care whether it's OPi or a laptop
<ullbeking>
nice, thx for this recommendation
<KotCzarny>
and if you want something smaller e7240 is nice too
<ullbeking>
whoa, the cheapest one i've found after quick searching is 100 GBP minimum price, but i admit that is only after a couple minutes searching. i'll put a saved search in and see what comes up over time
<KotCzarny>
yeah, fishing for good prices is a good practice
<ullbeking>
the trick is to not get emotional and to take one's time.
<ullbeking>
in my experience the right deal comes up at the right time
<KotCzarny>
yup
<ullbeking>
you can't "make" it happen
<ullbeking>
KotCzarny: thank you for these nice recommendations
<KotCzarny>
in general look for ultrabook form factor
<KotCzarny>
but be wary of celerons/atoms
<KotCzarny>
they can be as slow as allwinner ;)
<ullbeking>
lolol :D
<ullbeking>
oh btw
<ullbeking>
i got my OPi Zeroes now
<ullbeking>
so i can run my own tests to see what all this fuss about the temperature is about
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* willmore
just might have a c7 lying around.
<willmore>
ullbeking, so a tablet with a keyboard attached?
<ullbeking>
willmore: something like that, yes. i figured that the tablet part could be straightforwardly constructured from an SBC and an appropriate dispplay
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<KotCzarny>
well to run the drive (i assume some sata drive) it would need some battery
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<ullbeking>
yes, i'm basically trying to create a NUC using an OPi. finding a well priced display has been the hardest thing so far. i'm not worried about touch screen capabilities.
<ullbeking>
the core requirements are portable, compact computer for a person who is always "on the go"
<KotCzarny>
look for nokia n900
<KotCzarny>
:)
<KotCzarny>
or droid4
<ullbeking>
odroid?
<KotCzarny>
nope, motorola droid4
<KotCzarny>
i think it runs linux too
<ullbeking>
coincidentally i was just looking at the maemo site before :-)
<KotCzarny>
:)
<KotCzarny>
yeah
<KotCzarny>
im curious about keyboard for pinephone too
<ullbeking>
n900's have something of cult status these days, no? so far it seems that n900's in good condition are about 150 GBP
<ullbeking>
ah yeah, pine64 laptop
<ullbeking>
but n900 and droid 4 is more interesting (to me)
<KotCzarny>
basically you most likely get best bang for the buck finding seconda hand device that suits your needs
<ullbeking>
KotCzarny: do you have a small, portable display, e.g., 7-10"?
<KotCzarny>
once you start adding components to opi price gets high very quick
<ullbeking>
yes, the thing i need is a good portable screen
<KotCzarny>
nope, only some 3" i got for experiments cheaply (5usd or so) (spi one at that)
<KotCzarny>
nice thing about it is that it mounts onto the gpio
<KotCzarny>
and is quite stable
<KotCzarny>
so if you dont need move watching might be a way to go too
<KotCzarny>
*movie
<ullbeking>
ok, earlier i was talking about something for my friend, i'll probably just recommend one of those laptops you suggested KotCzarny , that is simplest and least nmessing around because that person doesn't care about OPi, they just need a cheap computer that works
<ullbeking>
but now i'm talking about something else...
<ullbeking>
as in, what we've been discussing during past few minutes, which is interesting to me
<ullbeking>
are those 3" displays useful to create little serial console dusplays?
<KotCzarny>
as always, depends
<KotCzarny>
on your skill or driver availability
<ullbeking>
16:48 <KotCzarny> nope, only some 3" i got for experiments cheaply (5usd or so) (spi one at that)
<ullbeking>
this looks like great value
<ullbeking>
16:48 <KotCzarny> nice thing about it is that it mounts onto the gpio
<ullbeking>
i'm think of H3
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<ullbeking>
thinking*
<KotCzarny>
it might be bigger than 3", it's the size of opipc
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<KotCzarny>
almost exactly
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<KotCzarny>
nice part is that no cables are sticking around
<ullbeking>
yes!!!
<ullbeking>
i hate cable
<ullbeking>
s
<KotCzarny>
but again, it uses spi/i2c, which is good for slow updates only
<KotCzarny>
it has touch too as a bonus, but requires some driver fiddling
<ullbeking>
that all sounds find for basic diagnostics on a "serial console"
<KotCzarny>
yeah, text/images display just fine
* ullbeking
goes to look to see if there is an H3 with native SATA, however IIRC i think i need A20 or A64...
<KotCzarny>
no sata on h3
<KotCzarny>
but there are nice usb dongles
<KotCzarny>
which often are bit nicer than 2 cables required for sata drives
<KotCzarny>
and 30-40M/s is more than enough often
<ullbeking>
an 16 GB on the eMMC is more than enough for a basic install of a text based OS
<KotCzarny>
16? lol
<ullbeking>
why lol?
<KotCzarny>
i have 40-70MB ramdisk that runs with xorg and firefox
<ullbeking>
also, which usb dongles do you find work well?
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<KotCzarny>
it's just a matter of cutting os to bare necessities and not using full blown installers
<KotCzarny>
jms578 based one isnt bad
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<ullbeking>
are you suggesting 16 GB is a tight fit?
<KotCzarny>
MB not GB
<KotCzarny>
im suggesting you can have fully working linux in under 100MB
<ullbeking>
which distro will install such a slim set of software?
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* ullbeking
needs to look up jms578
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<KotCzarny>
i started with slackware, then cut out everything not needed
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<ullbeking>
i <3 slack
<ullbeking>
these days i am focused on debian and adelie
<ullbeking>
16:48 <KotCzarny> nope, only some 3" i got for experiments cheaply (5usd or so) (spi one at that)
<ullbeking>
do you have a link to this screen?
<ullbeking>
i think i might be nearly done now :D
<ullbeking>
is it the official OPi screen?
<KotCzarny>
nah, some noname/waveshare
<KotCzarny>
i was hacking a driver for it long time ago
<KotCzarny>
but found too slow for android
<KotCzarny>
and legacy kernel cant grok display+touch on i2c
<KotCzarny>
look for local classifieds, there might be people trying diy, but lacking skills and selling their toys cheaply
<ullbeking>
cool cool, this all sounds really promising
<ullbeking>
KotCzarny: what board is that? and what standoffs are you using there?
<ullbeking>
TRS-80: thank you! i will read these reviews now
<TRS-80>
KotCzarny: what terms you search for when searching locally? I would love to pick up something liek that on the cheap...
<ullbeking>
TRS-80: that dongle is essentiually the same one that KotCzarny recommended
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<TRS-80>
yes they are jms578 which is good start but there are some more implementation details (fit, uasp, etc.) which make it stand above. It's hard to know what you are getting some times ordering random crap from China, I like when someone else has shared their research already on a specific product...
<TRS-80>
you may have good results elsewhere as well, I dunno. But especially if you plan on ordering something from Pine anyway soon...
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<ullbeking>
[KotCzarny: what board is that? and what standoffs are you using there?] i will research the no-name/waveshare options you mentioned earlier and try to find something compatible... the standoffs remain the outstanding issue but i know where to get them and ofc the correct standoffs depend on the exact hardware you end up getting
<ullbeking>
the variety of standoffs is mind boggling
<TRS-80>
ullbeking: it is on my Ali shopping list to find some "assortment" of standoffs in different lengths to have on hand...
<ullbeking>
"TRS-80: I like when someone else has shared their research already on a specific product..." KotCzarny already gave the thumbs up to jms578, and i have a certain philosophy to contructing my shopping lists when buying hw for sbc's from ali vs buying from specific electronics with known *presumably* tight QA and logistical supply chains
<ullbeking>
TRS-80: yes, re the standoffs i'm sure there's probably somebody selling a huge bag of standoff for not too much
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