<leowt>
mmind00: btw, who is managing the github repos? what are the plans?
<leowt>
Tsvetan: arent you one of olimex devs?
<Tsvetan>
I´m Olimex
<leowt>
=)
<leowt>
thinking about a rockchip powered olinuxino?
<mmind00>
I don't know ... just got a mail some days ago from github that it's tracking these for me for some reason
<Tsvetan>
yes
<leowt>
dig into rockchip software support, i think you wont like it
<Tsvetan>
but I dont think this will happen in near future
<Tsvetan>
this and the totally absence of info
<leowt>
if you are not completely cool with allwinner support
<leowt>
then rockchip will be much worst
<Tsvetan>
allwinner support rocks
<Tsvetan>
once you get introduced to the right people
<leowt>
i see
<leowt>
the thing i like about newer rk socs are power consumption
<leowt>
mmind00: i added you to that community in github
<Tsvetan>
the thing I like is that they use Mali instead of powervr as A31
<leowt>
didnt had that much time lately
<leowt>
will try to get the ppl together so we can thecide
<leowt>
*decide
<leowt>
Tsvetan: they only use mali in rk8188
<Tsvetan>
please make wiki as linux-sunxi.org where info about the chips can be collected
<leowt>
Tsvetan: that would certainly happen
<leowt>
*will
<Astralix>
I am already cross merging
<leowt>
Astralix: hi
<Astralix>
Hi
<leowt>
Astralix: cool
<Astralix>
first I'd like to go from Omega sources to our kernel, as our one is more 3.0.66.
<Astralix>
then we can decide how to proceed.
<leowt>
where did .66 came from
<leowt>
?
<Astralix>
don't know... some bq curie I guess ;)
<leowt>
=)
<Astralix>
There have been two 3.0.36 released
<Astralix>
one was for a stick and is more 3.0.36+ while the other was for a tablet and was more or less a 3.0.66-
<Astralix>
I did the horror-job and did a threeway compare on these...
<leowt>
ur crazy
<leowt>
xD
<Astralix>
If you read assembler and know what picture is presented while having video signal connected to a scope only... Yes that is sort of crasieness
<leowt>
hey
<leowt>
who is netlars?
<Astralix>
Member of Crewrktablets and our guy for Android programming
<leowt>
call him in =P
<Astralix>
where did you hear of him?
<leowt>
just saw the log in github
<Astralix>
Ah, ok
<leowt>
just created a android repo in crewrk
<Astralix>
yes I urged him to do that asap
<leowt>
we got to get a wiki
<leowt>
with linux-rockchip.org domain
<leowt>
we got to get a sponsor
<Astralix>
We want to get our own manifest going
<leowt>
haha
<Astralix>
we do have a platform already
<leowt>
we urgently must have an centralized and organized wiki
<Astralix>
we have arctablet as sponsor and
<Astralix>
are able to setup forum and homepage and so on
<Astralix>
yes its not a linux-rockchip name that leads people in
<leowt>
and not purely centralized
<Astralix>
That is cause it's 2:2 people, two can speak english, two not
<leowt>
the best way is try to mimic a funcional similar comunity like linux-sunxi.org
<leowt>
like Tsvetan said
<Tsvetan>
I guess many ppl from linux-sunxi would be interested to participate for rockchip too
<leowt>
Tsvetan: i came from linux-sunxi
<leowt>
=P
<Astralix>
There are two reasons for the linux-rockchip.org as our arctablet suggests the connection to tablet-only
<Astralix>
and the site is independent from any tablet manufacturer
<Astralix>
Hi Tsvetan!
<leowt>
Astralix: yeah, but then having a linux-rockchip.org you pick and put info in the crewrktablets
<leowt>
since the idea is centralization
<leowt>
the only way to get all ppl working together
<Astralix>
I looked around the Allwinner pages and saw that it is more or less a central HUB for this chips
<Astralix>
Yeah, but the more people are working on it, the more complicated it gest
<Astralix>
gets
<leowt>
well, it depends
<Astralix>
There are already two or three fractions of people working with RK chips
<leowt>
it is complicated to try to find sources and then find 123810283 sources with different commits and some that fix the same problem in different manners
<leowt>
so it is always better
<Astralix>
1) people wanting to be first with something to be able spreading the news that they where first.
<Astralix>
2) people wanting do fix a certain thing and then you never see them again
<Astralix>
3) people wanting to do a good job with clean code and orderly documentation
<leowt>
i found rkflashtools then ive found 3 forks
<leowt>
solving the same problem
<leowt>
i took the cleaner code
<leowt>
yours
<leowt>
and added rk8168
<leowt>
and i though
<leowt>
thits is crazy
<Astralix>
thanks, that was the reason why I started that repo
<leowt>
is a massively multiplication of efforts
<Astralix>
And I'll write an even better version that makes windows flash tool obsolete, but I have some help there
<Astralix>
I forgot the two base groups!
<leowt>
so linux-sunxi.org
<leowt>
will be the centralizing efforts
<Astralix>
There are the linux guys, that throw out any crappy RockChip Android driver code as they run Ubuntu/Picuntu or even only command line
<leowt>
thats why i started asking ppl to join in linux-rockchip
<leowt>
linux-sunix.org works very well
<Astralix>
And there are the Tablet groups, they need to have all these crappy drivers workin...
<leowt>
and it is its own proof
<leowt>
thats why we must ask them in
<Astralix>
So if we could start a wiki that leads you to the right group and repos, it will surely help
<leowt>
in this case, a wiki that lead to correct info
<Astralix>
yes
<leowt>
and that mean try to get those loose repos and dev groups
<leowt>
to come together in linux-rockchip
<leowt>
and defragment this rockchip community
<Astralix>
Your're very welcomed to establish all this
<leowt>
Astralix: it was i that started this
<Astralix>
But with me you have to decide, I can do this or that. I do this in my spare time and I have job and family. So I have to decide if I do wiki or kernel drivers.
<leowt>
so you shouldnt expect much more
<leowt>
=P
<Tsvetan>
Hi Astralix
<leowt>
Astralix: thats why it is called a community, ppl should participate
<leowt>
=D
<leowt>
and the more ppl join in, more info we all got, and less work we have too
<Tsvetan>
these RK3188 Android sticks are very cheap so there will be soon many people who have them
<Tsvetan>
and could participate
<Astralix>
Yes, and I put all my sources online and give support in every edge I have knowledge of. I even push people from here to there and open contacts inbetween different groups. But I cannot spent additional time in wiki and such.
<leowt>
i do have many occupations, not childrent though XD, but that is only why i started this community, to have less effort, and share that effort
<Astralix>
So do that wiki, ask me questions about facts and I'll answer whatever I know.
<Astralix>
But please keep me out of press works
<leowt>
Astralix: =)
<leowt>
i can do that ;)
<Astralix>
fine, so the let's go
<Astralix>
Maybe Jochen kan do something about the server. I'll ask him as soon as he is back.
<Astralix>
did I wrote kan...?
<leowt>
=)
<leowt>
cool, i will be here
<leowt>
but "half"-away
<leowt>
=P
<leowt>
brb
<Astralix>
me too, have to do some work now
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<Tsvetan>
Astralix where do you working? what is this secrecy :)
<leowt>
Tsvetan: his work is not related to rockchip
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<Astralix>
Tsvetan?
<Tsvetan>
here
<Astralix>
What's about my job?
<Tsvetan>
I was wondering
<Tsvetan>
but if its secret no problem :)
<Astralix>
System Designer for PRISM software, but no, it's not secret
<Astralix>
not yet anymore, I guess
<Astralix>
:)
<Tsvetan>
I though you work in Rockchip or something and this is why you want to be off the lights
<Astralix>
nope, not off the light
<Astralix>
you might have misunderstood what I wrote above
<Astralix>
I have only a certain ammount of time for this RockChip hobby project
<Astralix>
and I can do either kernel coding or android programming or writing wiki and mailing around other people to join
<Astralix>
but a cannot do all of them at once
<Tsvetan>
heheh ok
<Astralix>
And I think that the best I can do for the community, is to continue kernel coding and support Omegamoon with linux kernel, Crewrktablet with android compatibility and such...
<Tsvetan>
surely we all scratch our itch with these Chinese SoCs
<Astralix>
But I am hardware/software developer for a company in home automation.
<Tsvetan>
good way to learn new stuff though
<Tsvetan>
we at Olimex had no much Linux knowledge one year ago when started
<Astralix>
Ah, you know... I always ask my questions and they have two chances to answer. Then I pull my disassembler and I find out myself.
<Tsvetan>
but we learned a lot around OLinuXino project
<Astralix>
lol, yes I know. I used your AT91SAM7 kits
<Tsvetan>
well what I learn is that Allwinner have several levels of support
<Astralix>
RockChip too: "None" and "almost none".
<Tsvetan>
when I posted on April 1st that we sold 2.7 Millions of OLinuxinos
<Tsvetan>
Eva from Allwinner believe this is true and moved us to VIP customer support group
<Tsvetan>
since then we get answer in 10-15 minutes after I ask 24/7
<Tsvetan>
and answer always hit the bulleye
<Astralix>
You know it is always a thing if you're big in business. But we at crewrktablets supported fresh android images for over 200 different Tablets. And we got nothing
<Tsvetan>
before this we have been in other support group which mostly couldnt understand what we ask
<Astralix>
I have two contacts at RockChips but as soon as you ask more deeper information, they send you to the FAEs. And if you ask them, they ask you for your company and your signed NDA.
<Astralix>
So I have no problem with using disassembly, scope and analyzer to decode whatever I can get a hand on.
<Astralix>
Whe I started coding on my first RockChip tablet, Allwinner was in the same state
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<Astralix>
ups?
<Astralix>
good to hear, that Allwinner now supports certain groups of people
<Tsvetan>
Allwinner have significant progress for one year
<Astralix>
But as you said. You as olimex gets good support, people like me still dont
<Astralix>
May be we should tell RockChip that we all switch to Allwinner
<Astralix>
Or Freescale, I have good contacts in that direction :)
<Tsvetan>
hahaha
<Tsvetan>
I guess they do not care
<Tsvetan>
if you see RK have sales just in China and no distributor elsewhere
<Tsvetan>
their business model is just not based on many developers which to ask them questions
<Tsvetan>
and on top of this their documentation is mostly internal and incomplete
<Astralix>
Yes but there are only a few really active people in the RK scene that produce code that works
<Tsvetan>
I guess in Allwinner just few peoples know everything and they are busy to answer questions from anyone
<Astralix>
Both ways are wrong in long term. But what should we do?
<Tsvetan>
so they answer just to the key customers
<Tsvetan>
btw TI OMAP a while ago also didnt even bother to give you datasheet if your project were under 10K
<Astralix>
For me, this puzzling and decoding and make some working thing out of it, is what makes the fun.
<Astralix>
I have all of TI OMAP
<Astralix>
3rd Monitor on the right hand is Android on beaglebone black
<Astralix>
:)
<Tsvetan>
we complete AM3352-SOM module one week ago
<Astralix>
we will use one of the sitaras for our server module. Just thinking about if we go POP and try to get 256MB or 512MB DRAM ontop of it.
<Tsvetan>
POP is best routing
<Tsvetan>
for DDR :)
<Astralix>
yes but how about the cost?
<Tsvetan>
POP is also lowest cost solution - no PCB space is used
<Astralix>
we re not that high volume, but industrial grade hardware. And we do not have PCB space. So is there someone at your company I can call and get some real deal details about POP cost? Cause if I ask sales office, they will promise anything...
<Tsvetan>
we do not take external orders at the moment
<Tsvetan>
do you have SMT assembly at your place?
<Astralix>
Hmm... Down to 0402 I do not need special assembly :) But I didn't want to place an order. We have a hardware desing team and we have suppliers for our hardware that are able to handle SMT very well.
<Astralix>
I just wanted to know real cost of POP as I only heard rumors.
<Tsvetan>
you mean the POP assembly or what?
<Astralix>
yes
<Tsvetan>
and what are the rumors :)
<Astralix>
no numbers just 'Must be expensive' to 'Not for 1000 pieces' to whatever
<Tsvetan>
:)))
<Tsvetan>
its same complexity as normal BGA
<Tsvetan>
of course could be done by the expensive way and by the cheaper way
<Tsvetan>
but average POP is same as BGA nothing less nothing more
<Astralix>
so you can marry them in the normal production process?
<Tsvetan>
absolutely
<Tsvetan>
reflow profile is same
<Tsvetan>
you just have to dip the memory in flux or paste and place it on top of the previously placed BGA
<Astralix>
So it's 'just' a second run after placing of the normal parts
<Tsvetan>
yes
<Astralix>
So I only need to get the prices for the POP capable Sitaras
<Tsvetan>
if you know your assembly equipment and have control on it you can do it very easily
<Tsvetan>
because you have to force your placer to pick the memory place it on very thin film of paste/flux
<Tsvetan>
then pick again from there and place it on top of the BGA chip which is placed first to the PCB
<Tsvetan>
you can do this also manually without problems if the serie is small
<Astralix>
We let produce our boards at well known companies and they should be able to handel that. They have prototype service too. So it is just to figure out which Sitara and what memory.
<Tsvetan>
then POP = 2 x BGA chip placement cost
<Tsvetan>
and multiplied by CCK
<Tsvetan>
CCK = Coefficient of Customer Knowledge, if knowledge is low this is good reason for some vendors to ask higher price as everybody want to profit more :)))
<Astralix>
Ok, we're not in the wild west and some of the suppliers I know for long time. I am always willing to pay good money for good work
<Astralix>
But thanks for the information. I'll request them to get some real numbers first an then decide which way to got.
<Astralix>
But btw does it make sense to first place the CPU and then the memory? You can only test this stack after placing the DRAM and so if it fails, you have to throw PCB and CPU away. Wouldn't it make more sense to first build the stack, test it and then place it on the PCB?
<Tsvetan>
this is also option
<Tsvetan>
but basically POP is very easy to solder mem-cpu part I actually do not remember any problems caused by this
<Astralix>
Ok, I am busy now for a while. cul8er
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<leowt>
just received a bunch of tools for RK3168 tablet
<leowt>
dmtool, drivers, imagemaker, batchtool
<Astralix>
You could simply have them checked out at our site :)(
<leowt>
Astralix: ?
<Astralix>
but i guess that is why you had the idea of the wiki
<leowt>
dunno what they are for, whant me to share?
<leowt>
the wiki should only have clean and checked info
<leowt>
=)
<Astralix>
drivers are within every upgrade image. image tools are around in thousands of different versions
<leowt>
i am just asking because, it may have any dev interest
<Astralix>
batchtool is very dangerous as it can destroy 2nd stage bootloader in a manor that you cannot get your tablet working again without opening int
<Astralix>
it
<Astralix>
but I have to leave for going home. We'll talk later this evening, I hope