alanshaw changed the topic of #ipfs to: Heads Up: To talk, you need to register your nick! Announcements: go-ipfs 0.4.22 and js-ipfs 0.40 are out! Get them from dist.ipfs.io and npm respectively! | Also: #libp2p #ipfs-cluster #filecoin #ipfs-dev | IPFS, the InterPlanetary FileSystem: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs | Logs: https://view.matrix.org/room/!yhqiEdqNjyPbxtUjzm:matrix.org/ | Forums: https://discuss.ipfs.io | Code of
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<aschmahmann[m]>
c0ncord: While IPFS is an immutable pointer tieing a hash of data to the data itself, IPNS is a mutable pointer tieing the hash of a public key to an arbitrary path (including an IPFS path). ou can just run `ipfs name publish QmYourCIDHere`. If you want to change the
<aschmahmann[m]>
* c0ncord: While IPFS is an immutable pointer tieing a hash of data to the data itself, IPNS is a mutable pointer tieing the hash of a public key to an arbitrary path (including an IPFS path). You can just run `ipfs name publish QmYourCIDHere` to update the pointer to point at a new CID. You can also choose to use a key other than the one associated with your PeerID as an IPNS pointer by passing the `-k` flag after
<aschmahmann[m]>
generating a new key with `ipfs key gen`
<c0ncord>
so, let me get this straight: the peer id is tied to my instance?
<c0ncord>
does this mean that i can only have 1 website per instance?
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<aschmahmann[m]>
As I mentioned you can also choose to use a key other than the one associated with your PeerID as an IPNS pointer by passing the -k flag after generating a new key with ipfs key gen.
<aschmahmann[m]>
So you can run something like `ipfs key gen -t rsa -s 2048 myKey` and then `ipfs name publish -k myKey`. As described in the documention for `ipfs name publish` if you run `ipfs key list -l` you will see all the keys available for use. The default happens to be the `self` key (i.e. the one associated with your peerID), but you can use any key.
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<c0ncord>
ah, that's make more sense, thanks
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<c0ncord>
it looks like it's not very fast, right?
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<aschmahmann[m]>
lol yes, was just in the middle of writing some warning about that. give me a sec 😁
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<c0ncord>
nice, i want to learn as much as i can about ipns
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<c0ncord>
i don't know if it's a good idea, this ipns thing
<aschmahmann[m]>
c0ncord: what's your concern?
<c0ncord>
i imagine that after the first time a hash is resolved it holds it in cache for some time
<c0ncord>
but... what is a reasonable time to retain this data?
<c0ncord>
and let's suppose that every internet user in the world uses ipfs, and ipns... should they keep record of every dns entry in the world forever?
<c0ncord>
(so that they get a decent performance while browsing new websites)
<c0ncord>
as much as i like the idea of distributed technologies, i'd stick to federated systems for name resolution
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<c0ncord>
ipns may be a good fallback system, but not sure if it must attain mainstream status
<aschmahmann[m]>
IPNS isn't DNS, and the way in which caching is done is definitely situational.
<aschmahmann[m]>
For example, with IPNS-over-PubSub any changes to an IPNS record are pushed to you so caching can be mostly eliminated if you care strongly enough about the topic to continue to subscribe to updates. Additionally, authors can set suggested caching times in the records to let you know roughly how often they plan on changing the data.
<c0ncord>
what do you mean by "situational"?
<aschmahmann[m]>
it's not prescribed by the IPNS protocol itself and is application specific
<aschmahmann[m]>
For example, a web browser might choose to use a different caching strategy then a file syncronization service
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<aschmahmann[m]>
I'm not really sure how DNS helps at all here since in many cases DNS updates are even slower to propagate (although they'd be faster to resolve) then IPNS could be.
<c0ncord>
sounds clunky, sorry
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<c0ncord>
i'm gonna research more, i'll try to solve this name resolution thing
<c0ncord>
and by "to solve" i mean making it a little bit more decentralized than just dns
<aschmahmann[m]>
I'm not sure I understand what the issue you're concerned about is. How is DNS helping you with caching issues in a way that IPNS would not?
<c0ncord>
performance
<c0ncord>
final user will go away after the first second of wait
<c0ncord>
we don't want that
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<aschmahmann[m]>
I agree that there are performance issues, but I don't think they're inherent in having public-key addressed content discovery which is essentially what IPNS is.
<aschmahmann[m]>
IPFS (as with any p2p system) also has issues with the time to receiving a single byte being slower than a centralized system.
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<aschmahmann[m]>
However, as the file gets larger and more people can send you content IPFS can become even faster than a centralized service
<c0ncord>
that's not something the user cares about
<c0ncord>
final user, this is
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<c0ncord>
"During the first 48 hours, even if you are able to see your site on the new server, your next door neighbor might still be seeing the site on the old server", yes, and he still doesn't care, so long as it works for him, and it's fast.
<aschmahmann[m]>
If you're not concerned about propagation delay and updates then shouldn't you be fine with just caching IPNS records for a while?
<aschmahmann[m]>
While IPNS is quite slow currently it doesn't have to be that way and can be about as fast as IPFS gets.
<c0ncord>
ipfs isn't fast unless you pin things
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<c0ncord>
see, my expectation is getting 1M new users one day, and not having to worry about any number above 1% experiencing any kind of sluggishness
<aschmahmann[m]>
I guess I would rephrase that to "p2p content discovery across the global internet with IPFS isn't fast". If you have data locally stored (e.g. pinning) it's obviously fast, if you are on a LAN with MDNS enabled it's pretty speedy too.
<aschmahmann[m]>
If you're trying to find content on the global internet IPFS's DHT used for content discovery currently has some performance issues. Improving this is currently a pretty big focus for a number of people involved with IPFS. I wouldn't write off the future just bc of present issues 😀
<c0ncord>
let's assume all of them are native ipfs users, and let's assume that ipns gets better, as better as ipfs at content discovery
<c0ncord>
*as good as ipfs
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<c0ncord>
then maybe that's good for the last 100k users
<c0ncord>
but the first 100k, i figure wouldn't have as fast responses from the ipfs network
<c0ncord>
maybe having slow content discovery for not yet popular websites is ok, but having double the wait time for each request, because of ipns...
<c0ncord>
for those 100k users
<c0ncord>
is probably unacceptable in many cases
<c0ncord>
Look, i totally respect the ipns approach, it's genius, but in practice, it might not be for everyone.
<aschmahmann[m]>
Perhaps the 2x time hurts a lot in a given case, it's hard to tell.
<aschmahmann[m]>
However, you might nonetheless get saved by things like IPNS-over-PubSub. Since by connecting to peers that have the IPNS record you likely will end up finding peers that have the IPFS data as well, making it now 1x time to find the data.
<aschmahmann[m]>
> but in practice, it might not be for everyone.
<aschmahmann[m]>
for sure, if you have more stability in who has the content you're looking for you can use strategies like tracking peerIDs (or even IP addresses) that can improve performance even more. For example, the new Threads proposal from Textile utilizes some of these techniques.
<aschmahmann[m]>
It also handles some issues like multiple writers that IPNS doesn't deal with
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<c0ncord>
interesting, although way over my head
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<c0ncord>
i'll have to learn more
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<aschmahmann[m]>
yep, there's a lot going on in the space and tons of work to do 😁
<c0ncord>
keep it up!
<c0ncord>
and thanks for all the hard work
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<aschmahmann[m]>
It's an open community and there's always more to do if you're interested 😉
<c0ncord>
yes, i am, of course
<aschmahmann[m]>
👍️
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