ec changed the topic of #elliottcable to: a 𝕯𝖊𝖓 𝖔𝖋 𝕯𝖊𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖒𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖉 𝕯𝖆𝖒𝖘𝖊𝖑𝖘 slash s͔̞u͕͙p͙͓e̜̺r̼̦i̼̜o̖̬r̙̙ c̝͉ụ̧͘ḷ̡͙ţ͓̀ || #ELLIOTTCABLE is not about ELLIOTTCABLE
<audy>
audy the regular expressions?
<audy>
oops
<audy>
ELLIOTTCABLE
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
audy: no lol
ELLIOTTCABLE is now known as ec
<Cheery>
I am procrastinating and I have to code
<ec>
Cheery!
<ec>
been a while
<ec>
i'm going in for surgery tomorrow
<Cheery>
surgery to fix what?
<ec>
I'm staying up a little late, so I'm not starving hungry all morning tomorrow, since I'm not allowed to eat
<ec>
idk, to find out what's wrong with me
<ec>
(as if that's possible raffle raffle raffle 🤣)
<ec>
endoscopy or sommat
<Cheery>
weren't aware that they sometimes just look inside.
<Cheery>
I've figured out how to optimize my language's programs, but I am procrastinating like crazy.
<ljharb>
i've had an endoscopy before
<Cheery>
so to procrastinate more I was going through the channel list of what I got open.
<pikajude>
is it a scope of your endo
<ec>
Cheery: you're still working on languages? coool! I'm proud
<ec>
but the gut ones are particularly inscrutable
* ec
sighs
<ec>
tired of feeling sick. *all* the time. tired of being tired. *all* the time.
<ec>
in 2016, I did a *ton* for my productivity; that flowed naturally into doing a ton for my general emotional well-being, happiness, fulfillment, etc in late-2016/early-2017
<ec>
which means it's time to attack my constant, and crippling, gut-pain and gas ... further-crippling insomnia ... and myriad etceteras health issues /=
<ec>
so that's fun.
<ljharb>
ec: i had pretty bad acid reflux for like 10 years; all i did for it was pop tums and OTC acid reducers
<ljharb>
then i had an endoscopy, and it turns out what i have is fixable with surgery. now it's fixed and i'm great, for like 4 years now
<ec>
I get heartburn ~15% of the time¹, nausea ~5% of the time, absolutely-crippling-pressure/bloating/gas² ~40% of the time, and un-identifiable “my tummy hurts” the remaining ~40%
<ljharb>
yeah sounds about right
<ec>
it's funny how little conf/tech people know about me — I show up to all these events, and hold my endless and horrific gas in day in, day out, to the point of wincing pain and a week's terrible consequences, so that I'm not (incapable of networking professionally LOGICAL_OR known as the Source Of That Bad Smell professionally)
<ljharb>
on a few occasions i actually turned down a hookup with a hot friend, it was so bad. that's about when i decided i needed to go to the doctor
<ec>
lmfao yeah
<ec>
luckily I'm pretty confident outside of tech
<ec>
anyone who doesn't want to put up with the way I smell is missing the fuck out on the way I sex, frankly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<ec>
their loss, zero shits given
<ljharb>
oh i wasn't referring to smell; i meant stomach pain
<ec>
little column A, little column B
<ljharb>
yeah
<ec>
which now that I actually sit here and think about it for the first time, is super fucking ... unlikely, I guess
<ec>
I'm actually quite surprised I'm not *more* socially crippled by all this?
<ec>
I've never thought about that before but
<ec>
it's always just been tech for me
<ec>
but yeah: tried omeprazole, tried cutting various pop culture things out of my diet (I'm lactose-free! No wait, I'm gluten-free! No wait, I'm vegetarian! [that didn't last long])
<ec>
with basically no measurable effect whatsoever #quantifiedself
<ec>
tried a few rarer things that there's a family history of problems with — whey protein, black pepper, mustard ...
<ec>
anyway. it's really hard to go to a doctor and go “It's not working”, with literally no other fucking information to share
<ec>
after years of yelling at people in IRC for going “It's not working”, with no other information to share
<ec>
but that's basically what I had to do this year /=
<ec>
“It's not working, I've tried everything I can think of, and I have no idea why”
<ec>
“Half the time, I can't even fucking identify the pain, it's just ‘my tummy hurts? or something?’”
<ec>
not helpful, but, ¯\_(-_-)_/¯
<pikajude>
everyone's tummy hurts
<ec>
pikajude: 24/7, every waking fucking moment? /=
<pikajude>
maybe in a metaphorical sense ec
<ec>
I very clearly transition from “God, my tummy hurts, I over-ate” to “God, my tummy hurts, I'm so fucking starving”, without any period of comfort in-between
<ec>
which kinda-sorta hints that, no, it wasn't that I over-ate or under-ate
<ec>
it's just that I'm Broken™
<Cheery>
Due to high blood pressure that's running in the family, trying to lose weight by diet that I know used to work.
<ec>
</rant> idk why I'm talking about this
<ec>
nerves
<ec>
Cheery: Keto!
<ec>
keto keto keto keto keto!
<pikajude>
caloric deficit
<ec>
incidentally, Keto's the only thing that ever reliably cleared my stomach shit up
<pikajude>
doesn't induce carb flu
<pikajude>
just track your portioneroonis
<ec>
only point of keto is to make caloric deficit easy heh
<pikajude>
you jest
<pikajude>
i've read a lot of quasi-religious literature about keto being
<ec>
I have absolutely no self-control; without the carb-flu-stick hanging over my head, no force in the universe is going to stop me from eating that delicious pasta in front of me :P
<pikajude>
what "our ancestors used to eat"
<ec>
oh fuck all that noise
<pikajude>
a side effect of keto is making caloric deficit easy though
<pikajude>
i'll agree with that
<Cheery>
ec: yeah.. I sort of feel it's keeping me healthy if not anything else.. But yesterday had some heavier work than usual, then I look into the measure at the morning and it shows up +2kg
<pikajude>
but i don't have the mental fortitude for it
<pikajude>
i mean
<pikajude>
actually
<pikajude>
if i drank a bunch of coffee / took amphetamines
<pikajude>
i could probably do keto
<ec>
keto is very simply a high-satiety diet (lots of meat, very little time spent ‘ugh I'm hungry’ and having to control yourself) with the additional grossness of being kicked out of ketosis if you fuck it up
<ec>
tbh BPC is easymode keto
<ec>
or Coffiest, according to VanguardVivian
<pikajude>
Big, Prehensile Cocks
<ec>
Bullet-Proof Coffee
<ec>
it's a nasty home-made keto-drink
<ec>
that you do instead of breakfast
<ec>
it's like SuperNasty Soylent™
<ec>
Cheery: don't micro-self-measure
<ec>
Cheery: protip: use one of those wireless tracking scales, and ducktape over the display
<ec>
weigh yourself every morning, but never *look* at it
<ec>
only look at the data, with a weighted-moving-average, in whatever app you use.
<ec>
prevents you from subconsciously (or consciously) freaking out over water-weight changes
<pikajude>
bulletproof coffee??
<pikajude>
lol
<pikajude>
that looks
<pikajude>
cool actually
<ec>
heh
<ec>
seriously, though, try Keto
<pikajude>
i have to say, i have a lot of respect for the fact that diet plans are *still* coming out
<Cheery>
ec: that's a good tip.. I need to remember when I get to upgrade.
<ec>
I have plenty of advice for making it livable
<pikajude>
even though the root principle is
<ec>
and it's suuuuuper-good-feeling
<gkatsev>
it doesn't have to be nasty, fwiw
<ec>
I swear, the only ‘religious’ bit is that your body *does* feel amazingly good when you're on it
<ec>
totes very could be confirmation bias or whatever
<pikajude>
"here, THIS diet will get you what you want. pay me for the special thing I make that is the only way to follow this diet."
<ec>
I had it evangelized to me a bunch before I did it
<ec>
but having done it a half-dozen times over the years — you wake up easier, have *way* more energy all day, fall asleep easier, and (if you're me) lose all hint of gas
<gkatsev>
it felt so good when I was doing low-carb but ugh, I relapsed so bad, particularly because work has a bunch of shitty snacks
<gkatsev>
3 types of m&ms and skittles
<pikajude>
work has lots of snacks
<pikajude>
yeah
<pikajude>
but they also have cheese and stuff
<pikajude>
beef jerky
<pikajude>
etc.
<ec>
idk, I never have trouble relapsing
<ec>
getting keto-slapped solved that for me
<pikajude>
and since i get proper food now
<gkatsev>
ec: how long have you been doing it for?
<pikajude>
i'm pretty sure i could switch to keto fairly easy
<ec>
and I have *no* self-control, so I'm shocked it could be worse for someone else, lmao
<pikajude>
i just don't want to
<ec>
gkatsev: my longest stretch was, ehhhhrgh, 6 months?
<ec>
I have no desire to do it permanently
<ec>
biggest downsides:
<ec>
1. social life (people think it's weird, you get tired of explaining it, social foods are strongly weighted towards carb)
<gkatsev>
I relapsed around 8 months, I think
<ec>
2. it *looks* fucking unhealthy
<pikajude>
"To get the real benefits of Bulletproof Coffee you have to use Bulletproof ingredients. There’s no decent substitute for mold-free coffee or Brain Octane Oil. Using instant coffee and coconut oil won’t cut it."
<pikajude>
Yikes
<gkatsev>
I think my main thing that I will change if I do it again is actually have cheat meals and stuff
<Cheery>
ec: It's been a bit easier to stick on it after I've thought about batteries a bit.. If you deplete a battery, its weight doesn't change.
<ec>
no matter how long you do it, no matter how good you *physically feel* ... eating several pounds of bacon and cream-cheese and wtfever every single week always just struck me as suuuuper fucked-uup
<gkatsev>
lol
<gkatsev>
yeah, don't do that
<ec>
pikajude: idk what that dumb-ass product is
<pikajude>
ec: you were the one who said bulletproof coffee
<ec>
pikajude: but check out the keto-reddit's various recipes for it
<pikajude>
i googled it
<pikajude>
this was the first result
<ec>
yeah idk some company jumped on the meme
<ec>
but it's a reddit/health-community thing
<pikajude>
Oh
<pikajude>
so "bulletproof coffee" is a colloquialism
<ec>
yeah
<pikajude>
but if you google it you get some snake oil
<pikajude>
Nice
<pikajude>
I love the internet
<ec>
lmfao the internet indeed
<ec>
at its simplest, it's coffee with the heaviest cream or cream-alternative
<pikajude>
but no, losing weight's never been my problem, it's gaining that gave me trouble
<ec>
like, whipping-cream or lard or something
<pikajude>
and i like carbs
* ec
nods
<ec>
a lot of weight-lifters do keto and gain
<pikajude>
yeah
<pikajude>
a lot don't do keto and still gain
<ec>
but I never did keto *and* lifting at the same time; and I definitely lost like a fucking candle on keto, so i wouldn't fuck with that
<gkatsev>
surprisingly enough, other than the stupid snacks that I end up eating at work, I do still eat fairly low-carb otherwise
<pikajude>
oh
<ec>
tbh if this endoscopy doesn't Magically Fix It (wanna DM me some details, ljharb?), I'm probably going to dive head-first back into keto
<pikajude>
so bulletproof coffee is coffee with heavy cream in it
<pikajude>
that sounds
<pikajude>
really nice
<ec>
my partner is complaining about her weight and shit, so I'll just drag her into it, too
<pikajude>
i would love that
<pikajude>
hello darkness my old friend
<ec>
pikajude: often with other supplements, or an egg
<Cheery>
pikajude: heavy cream? You mean something like smetana?
<ec>
usually with butter, iirc?
<pikajude>
is smetana a thing
<gkatsev>
pikajude: closer to butter than heavy cream
<pikajude>
what is that
<gkatsev>
Cheery: smetana is sour cream
<ljharb>
sure
<pikajude>
oh
<pikajude>
it's sour cream
<pikajude>
ewww
<pikajude>
i hate sour cream
<pikajude>
ec: egg coffee? no
<pikajude>
i'll have butter coffee though
<ec>
definitely haven't seen it with *sour* cream
<ec>
but yeah, butter and heavy-cream and some supplements or similar
<gkatsev>
pikajude: bulletproof coffee is coffee with butter and maybe that coconut oil thing
<pikajude>
too bad i can't get butter coffee at the coffee shop
<pikajude>
:/
<gkatsev>
I've definitely seen a place that had it
<pikajude>
that bulletproof coffee website says MCT oil is good for all kinds of great things
<ec>
cinnamon and cardamom holy daaaaamn
<Cheery>
why do they call it bulletproof?
<ec>
fuck the oil stuff
<gkatsev>
oh, yeah, MCT that's the one
<ec>
Cheery: because of how thick it is, in my head
<ec>
but originally because some dude who writes a blog about being an executive published a post about it
<ec>
and his blog is Bulletproof Exec
<Cheery>
why it's preferred over black coffee?
<pikajude>
more energy
<pikajude>
slower absorption
<gkatsev>
the "original" is with MCT
<pikajude>
that's what the internode says
<pikajude>
only problem is i would have to get a proper frother and like
<pikajude>
a covfefe maker
<gkatsev>
Cheery: because on a keto diet, you get most enegry from fat. It's an easy way to up your fat intake.
<pikajude>
coffee maker sorry
<pikajude>
there ain't no coffee here
<ec>
yeah, getting Enough Fat is hard
<gkatsev>
MCT oil isn't that much different than just coconut oil
<pikajude>
eating enough is hard in general
<ec>
ljharb: I've never understood that (re: passing out drunk)
<pikajude>
i think my calorie target is 2750 or something
<ljharb>
ec: what's to understand?
<ec>
I've never once blacked out — my “horribly fucking drunk” is *very* awake, usually stumbling around the house, stepping over the bodies of all my passed-out friends, trying to clean
<pikajude>
drink more then
<ec>
or huddling in a corner, depressed af (in my sadder past)
<gkatsev>
I remember when I was cooking and stuff to always make sure that my food had a nice sheen on it. Otherwise probably not enough fat, heh
<ec>
but I've never once fallen asleep until completely and totally sobered up
<pikajude>
you need to drink more
<ljharb>
"blacked out" just means memory gaps, not necessarily unconscious
<ec>
if I drink A Little, it means I'm up until 2 or 3 — if I drink A Lot, it means I'm up until 8 or 9
<ljharb>
i've blacked out a number of times, but only when i'm super super drunk
<pikajude>
yeah
<pikajude>
if you drink more
<pikajude>
you'll black out
<ec>
pikajude: years away, I put away a-bottle-and-a-quarter of vodka in an attempt to kill myself
<ljharb>
but as far as passing out; i've rarely straight *passed out* - usually it's just, i get real tired, i lie down, and i fall asleep super easily, and sleep hard
<ec>
I've still never blacked out or passed out 🙄
<pikajude>
ec: drink more
<pikajude>
you'll black out
<ljharb>
lol
<ljharb>
i don't think it's just about quantity
<pikajude>
i feel like what i'm saying here is very straightforward
<ljharb>
i've blacked out from very differing quantities of alcohol, and not blacked out most of the time from far more.
<ec>
pikajude: If I drank any more than I've previously drank in a sitting, I'd black out, indeed — and never wake up
<pikajude>
ok
<gkatsev>
the darker the alcohol the more likely it'll affect you
<pikajude>
sounds like a plan, then
<ec>
I feel like what *I'm* saying here is very straightforward :P
<pikajude>
yeah
<pikajude>
if you say so
<ec>
gkatsev: oh god I *hate* that urban legend
<ec>
all. liquor. is. the. same.
<ec>
wine and beer have additional effects to those of the alcohol; but not so for the harder stuff.
<pikajude>
not really
<gkatsev>
well, no, not really
<pikajude>
a 4% beer is gonna be light
<ec>
people wagging on about ‘oh! I was *tequila* drunk, that explains everything!’
<ec>
no
<gkatsev>
there's definitely extra stuff in darker liquids
<ec>
it doesn't.
<ec>
you were just drunk.
<gkatsev>
whether it makes a difference, idk
<pikajude>
a whiskey will be much higher proof
<ljharb>
ec: it's not the same to everyone.
<ljharb>
this stuff varies from person to person a lot.
<ec>
ljharb: I'm firmly of the belief that it's self-induced ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<pikajude>
but also believes in keto
<ec>
“Oh! I'm drinking *tequila* tonight! I'm gonna be *silly*!!!”
<pikajude>
so, make of that what you will
<ec>
shit drives me nuts
<ljharb>
ec: one day you and i can do a blind test
<ec>
or people who “won't drink dark liquors,” 'cuz it makes them “crazy”
<ec>
*flails grumpily*
<ljharb>
we'll use, like, chili peppers to numb our taste buds, and drink something we can't see and can't taste
<ec>
oh man we should use that plant
<pikajude>
people feel things, and i don't like it!!
<ec>
whassit
<gkatsev>
I think the main difference is between stuff like wines, beer, and whiskeys
<ljharb>
the flavor one, yeah
<ec>
also can we *just* do the pepper part
<ec>
so in for that
<ljharb>
haha
<ec>
gkatsev: yeah
<gkatsev>
and between whiskeys and stuff the proof makes more of a difference
<ec>
wines have an aphrodisiac and calming effect borne out in the literature
<ec>
and beer obviously makes you fuller, sicker, and fucks up your gut
<gkatsev>
but there could still be some variety between 40% vodka vs a 40% Bourbon
<ec>
but yeah other than those, it's just quantity-of-alcohol-consumed
<gkatsev>
bubbly drinks also make you drunker
<gkatsev>
scientifically proven
<ljharb>
ec: there's definitely a difference.
<ec>
k! back to code for me, for a few minutes, before I finally crash
<ljharb>
people with an alcohol allergy can still drink tequila, for example.
<ljharb>
so there's like proven biological differences.
<ec>
somebody come test my latest trashy purposeless library!
<ec>
ljharb: what!!
<ec>
O_O
<pikajude>
can you imagine having an alcohol allergy?
<ljharb>
yes. the plant source matters.
<pikajude>
what a nightmare
<ljharb>
some asian ethnic groups have one, i believe
<ec>
pikajude: idk, how much do you drink, like, is it *really* that big a part of your life?
<ec>
I think I'd be fine, tbh
<ec>
ljharb: iirc it's not an allergy
<pikajude>
ec: no, i was being facetious
<ec>
it's a weird processing-disorder
<ec>
more like gluten intolerance than nut allergy
<ec>
but I think there's a super-rare hypersensitivity that manifests more like a severe allergy?
<ljharb>
ec: yeah i'm not 100% on the allergy details. in some it's just a red flush; in others it's like digestive issues; in some it's like no tolerance for the booze
<ljharb>
yeah
<gkatsev>
asian glow!
<ljharb>
asian glow, yes
<ec>
the Asian Flush tho isn't really an allergy, I know that for sure
<gkatsev>
lol
<ljharb>
ec: no, but it is genetic
<ec>
god this is such dumb code
<ec>
also
<ljharb>
and a fun party trick when someone has the asian glow but also, can drink.
<ec>
in a classic Elliott Reaction,
<ec>
I read the warning at the bottom of `man 1 getopt`
<ec>
and immediately embarked on writing my own replacement for getopt
<ec>
🙄
<gkatsev>
why am I still awake?
<pikajude>
;(
<ec>
« Arguments containing white space or embedded shell metacharacters generally will not survive intact; this looks easy to fix but isn't. People trying to fix getopt or the example in this manpage should check the history of this file in FreeBSD. »
<gkatsev>
ok, going to finish this Learn to Draw video and then sleep
<gkatsev>
night all
<Cheery>
You're making one or watching one?
<gkatsev>
watching
<Cheery>
I think I feel burdened by the fact that my language still has no users that I know of.
<Cheery>
but I think I also know why.
<gkatsev>
it isn't javascript?
<gkatsev>
:P
<ljharb>
gkatsev: step 3, draw the rest of the fucking owl
<gkatsev>
ljharb: haha
<pikajude>
step 4: fuck the rest of the drawing owl
<Cheery>
gkatsev: it's not, and doesn't compile to javascript.. and I think it was a good choice to not go heads first into transpiling to javascript anyway.
<Cheery>
By now I probably should start considering that.. But my runtime has grown so large that it's not simple.
<gkatsev>
ok, video finished
<gkatsev>
night everyone
<Cheery>
gnight.
<Cheery>
so the observation is that there is no demand for my language. But why there is no demand?
<Cheery>
one contributing thing, but not the only thing, is that there's no supply.
<Cheery>
or "supply". I mean that the stuff that forms infrastructure for the language usually isn't perfectly in place.
<Cheery>
also there are small things missing that could be there and make the language nicer, but they aren't there..
<Cheery>
things like the line printouts in exception messages.
<Cheery>
there is no community feeding up the language with new libraries and modules, or examples.
<Cheery>
but I think that's not the big thing.
<Cheery>
lets look at the potential user segments.
<Cheery>
the potential users that could really thrive here, would be guys who need Vulkan to do their stuff.
<Cheery>
or need good plugin structure
<Cheery>
or otherwise are making interactive apps.
<Cheery>
what keeps those away?
<Cheery>
I think there are two obvious cases.
<Cheery>
beginners: They get curious easily, but if their curiosity gets congested without a reward, they turn away.
<Cheery>
then there are professionals.. They have the problem that their infrastructure is elsewhere.
<Cheery>
so they have high cost of switching in.
<Cheery>
ec: still up? come up with anything else to this?
<Cheery>
on the professional side I really can't do much other than keep piling up the features.
<Cheery>
and advertising those.. Once they feel that the effort is worth ditching everything, they will do that.
<Cheery>
on the beginner side.. I guess I have to create a positive feedback system.
<Cheery>
a trail of cookies.
<ec>
woah hello
<ec>
read me later
<ec>
fuck sleep soon
<ec>
Cheery: beginner side ++++
<ec>
focus on making your language literally the *easiest thing* to use,
<ec>
but more importantly, you've got an xyproblem.info — you're focusing on the *effect* of having no contributors (having no users.) instead of the problem itself.
<ec>
so focus even harder on making your language the ***easiest thing to contribute to.***
<ec>
and finally two birds one stone — make your language easy ... for beginners ... to contribute to. :P
<ec>
testing infrastructure, thorough documentation, and being extremely willing to jump at the chance to walk a newbie through contributing
<Cheery>
oh yeah.
<Cheery>
:)
<ec>
tl;dr capture the lang-weirdos before you try and capture everyone else.
<ec>
beautiful landing page, thorough docs — soooo many people would disagree with me here, but frankly, take some time away from the meat of the language, and focus on the environment
<ec>
anyway why are you asking me this
<ec>
I have an eight-year-old language with zero users that doesn't even run coder rofl