ChanServ changed the topic of #crystal-lang to: The Crystal programming language | http://crystal-lang.org | Crystal 0.34.0 | Fund Crystal's development: http://is.gd/X7PRtI | GH: https://github.com/crystal-lang/crystal | Docs: http://crystal-lang.org/docs/ | API: http://crystal-lang.org/api/ | Gitter: https://gitter.im/crystal-lang/crystal
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<jhass> oprypin: did you find a sane way to download an artifact from a github workflow build automatically?
<FromGitter> <Blacksmoke16> https://github.com/actions/download-artifact ?
<jhass> outside GH actions :)
<FromGitter> <Blacksmoke16> Ah, gotcha
<jhass> the upload step has zero output vars :(
<jhass> If I could construct the URL from within the job that would be enough
<FromGitter> <Blacksmoke16> There some flag you can set for verbose output?
<jhass> mmh, the API has it these days...
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<oprypin> needs a token with public_repo
<oprypin> jhass: there's no unauthenticated download btw
<jhass> oh, you can use the workflow name as id, nice
<jhass> I mean the file name
<jhass> mmh, but I need a specific one
<oprypin> jhass, yea a specific one would be the "run_id"
<oprypin> i just get the latest run_id in the first part of the code, then u dont need that
<jhass> maybe it's too early
<jhass> or maybe $GITHUB_RUN_ID is not the run id....
<oprypin> jhass, set -e is the default btw. needs set -x though
<oprypin> > shell: sh -e {0}
<jhass> ah
<jhass> well anyways, my problem is that it seems to find the run but has no artifacts for it
<oprypin> could you add set -x pls :s
<jhass> If I hit the same URL now it has them
<jhass> maybe I try just sleeping for half a minute or os
<oprypin> that's a choice selection of words
<oprypin> seeing as how you seemingly were up at 4:46 AM 😂
<jhass> yeah, couldn't sleep :D
<jhass> so forgive me if I'm any tired :D
<jhass> what's your timezone btw?
<oprypin> same presumably
<jhass> gotcha
<jhass> I mean, I could abandon this experiment, drone is still not fast enough and aborts at 1 hour build time
<oprypin> :(
<jhass> but I kinda want it to work on principle
<oprypin> whats the point of it, that drone provides ARM machines or something?
<jhass> yeha
<jhass> yeah
<oprypin> ok
<jhass> I tried QEMU on GH actions and it takes like at least 4.5 hours
<oprypin> wow
<jhass> by now I suspect the ubuntu build is secretly WSL 😂
<oprypin> lol what
<jhass> anyways, if I have this working like this, I might be able to try Travis alpha support for ARM in the same way
<oprypin> why do u need github actions in the first place then
<oprypin> drone has multi stage builds, last i heard?
<jhass> it's ridicoulus, Travis provides proper multi stage ordering (drone not even that). But you still need to put in your own S3 or whatever to get files across
<jhass> like their exammples are literally calling aws s3 sync
<oprypin> :(
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<jhass> drone doesn't have multi stage as far as I can tell. Their terminology is confusing. Their "pipeline" is job in GH, so you basically can only have a single of what GH calls workflow, but no ordering between the pipelines within. You can only parallelize and order the steps within a pipeline, which all runs on the same VM booted for the pipeline
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<oprypin> right
<jhass> so no cross architecture multi stage
<jhass> Travis can do that but yeah, big hassle getting files across
<jhass> hah :D
<jhass> why's the output interleaved now xD
<jhass> anyways, still empty even half a minute later
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<raz> i find this new "highlight search result" matches in chrome really cool. the first useful feature browsers have added in about a decade.
<raz> only wish there was an extension to manually highlight stuff & share, hopefully soon
<jhass> :D
<raz> ohhhh, it exists!
<raz> my life is now complete
<raz> jhass: so this should stay under the 1h limit now?
<jhass> nah
<jhass> this is triggering the drone build from GH actions after cross compiling the compiler on it, then passing enough info to drone to scrape the artifact from GH actions and download it there xD
<raz> ok, my brain is now a knot
<raz> but if it works then more power to you :D
<raz> that looks less convoluted than i would've thought
<raz> but these build systems should really stop using yaml
<raz> almost everyone should stop using yaml...
<raz> i suppose to make the bikeshed complete you could set the commit status to pending at the end of the GH action, and only have drone set it to green when it succeeds
<raz> (not sure if it's worth it, just an idea)
<jhass> the commit will just have two statuses
<raz> ahh cool!
<raz> rigt, i forgot that gh can see the drone status directly
<jhass> commit status is a push thing, but yeah if you can use the API you can set any on any commmit
<Stephie> jhass, im a little confused about your github actions comments
<jhass> they're probably just me being gnarly :D
<Stephie> have you read about the limits and which of them dont apply to self-hosted runners? https://help.github.com/en/actions/getting-started-with-github-actions/about-github-actions
<Stephie> yeah i posted some replies on the forum
<Stephie> raspi4 being available with 8gb of ram is really cool
<Stephie> i think moving everything to github actions is probably a good move long-term
<jhass> I mean I don't even care about the limits, any build should stay below an hour to be reasonable to deploy to CI IMO
<Stephie> yeah
<jhass> so RPi 4 is not ok
<jhass> it takes 3+ hours
<Stephie> i was just confused by what you meant by "time budget"
<Stephie> jhass, how do you know?
<Stephie> i dont think you'll get much better with ARM
<jhass> I have one sitting < 1m away from me right now :)
<Stephie> ah
<Stephie> what takes so long?
<jhass> why wouldn't you? Did you see the AWS A1 boxes? or the beast Packet has?
<Stephie> i mean if someone pays for it
<Stephie> id be fine with doing ARM once a day
<Stephie> not on every build
<jhass> ?
<Stephie> we have nightlies
<jhass> oh you mean "somemone" = manas
<Stephie> you talked about sponsorships :P
<Stephie> anyway, there's no need to test everything on every build, there wll be a lot of platforms which only build once a day
<Stephie> it'd be nice if arm wasnt one of them but
<Stephie> jhass, yeah thats for private repos
<Stephie> its different for public
<Stephie> they're suuper generous
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<jhass> they don't make that super clear tbh
<Stephie> no
<Stephie> but
<Stephie> github actions seems like the way to go
<jhass> until they change their mind :D
<Stephie> ynless you want to self-host everything
<jhass> but yeah, I guess we can do anything x86 on GH provided runners
<Stephie> jhass, have you tried on a packet/AWS server?
<Stephie> im not sure their singlecore is thaat much higher
<jhass> packet is B2B, so no access
<Stephie> oh actually the packet one probably is
<Stephie> ah
<jhass> I mean the packet one has 128GB, you could run multiple builds entirely in tmpfs
<jhass> that alone would be a tremendous speed bump
<Stephie> ehh
<Stephie> not really
<Stephie> crystal's build is really singlethread limited
<Stephie> not storage,
<jhass> what's crystal build --threads doing then
<Stephie> it spends 70% of its time running specs
<Stephie> the compiles take a minute or two
<Stephie> the jobs take half an hour
<Stephie> until we get MT stable and start running specs in parallel...
<Stephie> most of the time is in the compiler spec
<Stephie> i'd have a pop at the a1.xlarge
<Stephie> see how it compares to the raspi 4
<jhass> yeah but I mean did you calculate the cost at all
<Stephie> no
<Stephie> but im interested
<jhass> a medium is already well above $500 a month
<Stephie> its aws, taking a box for 3 hours costs nothing
<raz> a1.metal spot instance costs $0.0788
<Stephie> i still think the best option for ARM is getting rapi 4s
<Stephie> and building once a day
<Stephie> unless we can find a sponsor
<raz> but then someone has to maintain them, feed them, dust off their little PSU
<raz> replace the sd card that dies every month
<jhass> I really disagree, it's almost as bad as no builds at all
<jhass> they'll just break and nobody will feel responsible for them
<Stephie> its better than nothing
<Stephie> which is what we have right now
<jhass> Yes, but only until we have somethin proper
<jhass> setting that up shouldn't mean we stop pursing to replace it ASAP
<Stephie> sure
<Stephie> but theres no timescale on any of the other options
<Stephie> at all
<jhass> I'll try splitting on drone and I'll try Travis too
<Stephie> travis offers arm?
<jhass> Either feels better than a RPi as a stopgap solution honestly
<jhass> yeah, did you read my post at all :D
<Stephie> yeah
<Stephie> i read your first post last night sorry
<Stephie> so, i didnt remember
<Stephie> aaaaa it has ppc
<Stephie> yess
<jhass> it has the same issues as drone but I kinda overcame them for drone now using GH actions to cross compile, so if travis has a way to trigger per API with custom parameters too the same approach might work as well there
<Stephie> Crystal on POWER time
<jhass> thing is any ex employes since they got aquired suggest to stay away
<Stephie> i think that we should just host a bootstrap binary of the previous release
<Stephie> jhass, hmm?
<Stephie> travis?
<jhass> for travis
<Stephie> oh...
<Stephie> by who
<jhass> uh, some weird ass company, that's the thing
<jhass> 2018 already I think?
<Stephie> oh
<Stephie> either way
<jhass> Idera it was
<Stephie> im gonna set up nightly builds for the BSDs
<Stephie> and there should probably be some compile time performance stuff as well
<jhass> cool :)
<Stephie> like the LLVM benchmark tracker
<jhass> I'm less worried about BSDs breaking like that (on x86), they have the same kind of level of LLVM support and calling conventions
<jhass> so it's mostly libc
<Stephie> yeah thats true
<Stephie> but i want CI on them
<jhass> so I'm more okay with nightlies there
<jhass> yeah definitiely
<Stephie> i just wont want 3 CI solutions with overlapping builds like we have now
<Stephie> it bugs me :P
<Stephie> what we need is a windows and arm bootstrap hosted on manas's s3
<Stephie> but they don't seem to really be listening
<jhass> yeah
<Stephie> someone needs to host it on their s3
<Stephie> submit a PR
<jhass> my current plan is to coax alpine into enabling the crystal package for ARM
<Stephie> and then push manas to host it on their s3
<jhass> and then make a -static
<jhass> so after a release the alpine package would be bootstrapped
<jhass> and you could just fetch the -static to bootstrap other distros (like alarm)
<Stephie> someone just needs to do the work
<Stephie> and im way busy
<Stephie> its all about time
<jhass> well, money a bit too
<Stephie> yeah
<Stephie> well
<Stephie> they're related
<jhass> sure, talking about hosting in this context primarily
<FromGitter> <j8r> For ARM qemu is also an option
<FromGitter> <j8r> One can say it is not thr same as real hardware, but ARM hardwares are various: ARMv8, ARMv7, ARMv8.1 etx
<jhass> j8r: https://github.com/jhass/crystal/runs/745406419?check_suite_focus=true this is a QEMU build. It took over 4.5 hours
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<jhass> oh, I didn't checkout the rihgt branch m(
<raz> i find it quite silly that there are like two dozen CI services and yet this is still an unsolved problem
<raz> just 2020 things...
<jhass> I mean how man really do free open source? Travis (started it all), Circle, drone, GH actions, Gitlab I guess?, what else?
<jhass> if you got $$$ this is a very solved problem
<raz> if you find a good one that makes it dirt simple then asking for sponsorship might be worth it
<jhass> I just want somebody, ideally somebody doing the hosting, to sponsor us a bigger ARM box. Then we can just hook it up to GH actions
<jhass> or whatever else, maximum flexibility
<straight-shoota> there's also https://builds.sr.ht
<raz> well, full-time boxes are expensive :/ spot instance can be had for cheap
<raz> but needs a bunch of wiring (aws batch job perhaps)
<jhass> honestly our CI is probably running > 75% of the day, at least on weekdays
<jhass> the difference ain't that big anymore
<jhass> also there's stuff beyond AWS
<jhass> straight-shoota: any clue on which architectures it has? VM/container specs?
<raz> well, a1.metal spot would cost $38/mo if it runs 16h/day
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<raz> just the moment you look beyond spot instances it gets very pricey
<straight-shoota> mostly amd64 at the moment, but there's experimental aarch64 (although only emulated, so no good for us)
<straight-shoota> memory limit is 4gb by default, but you can ask for more
<straight-shoota> supports images of typical linux distros plus freebsd and openbsd
<straight-shoota> and they're seemingly planning for more platforms =)
<raz> ^ looks like someone has done the GH action + self-hosted runner / spot thing
<raz> but ugh...
<jhass> and compiler_spec alone takes > 55 minutes on drone https://cloud.drone.io/jhass/crystal/8/1/4
<jhass> also probably cheaper to have muliple runners on a single bigger instance
<raz> looks like they offer arm servers starting at $30/mo
<jhass> 2 or 8 GB RAM
<jhass> makes total sense. not.
<straight-shoota> The big plan says "multi-node cluster"
<straight-shoota> So it's not even a single machine
<straight-shoota> They're probably just running rpi's or similar cheap hardware
<raz> cheap, easy to setup, lots of ram. pick any two :P
<jhass> yeah, similar. I don't think there's 1.8Ghz RPis
<jhass> I pick fastish CPU, lots of RAM, big pockets and sponsor happy
<straight-shoota> yeah
<straight-shoota> For Crystal CI we'd definitely need server CPUs with huge memory support
<raz> well, i suppose it wouldn't need to be pricey on AWS. make an AMI (hashicorp packer), set an auto scaling group to keep an a1.metal spot instance alive... ~$60/mo
<raz> just not sure about retaining ip / dns across restarts, but that can likely be wired, too
<raz> just the setup is gonna take a day or two...
<jhass> for ARM, 4-8 threads, 16-32GB RAM, -> 4 VMs with a GHA runner each, we're good
<Stephie> if someone offered an arm server i have somewhere to rack it
<Stephie> but
<jhass> mmh, scaleway should have some to get rid of :D
<Stephie> ..in america
<Stephie> shipping would be a lot
<jhass> okay, 18 instead of 12 months on sponsors page for paying that too :D
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<jhass> https://cloud.aeshna.de/index.php/apps/sharingpath/mrzyx/Public/screenshot_2020-06-07_150642.png full spec run on an a1.xlarge (spec time output is just compiler_spec, total time below includes std_spec run before it)
<jhass> not as fast as I'd hoped
<FromGitter> <AlesLulak> Hello, newbie here. Is it possible to convert string to symbol? I wish to create hash Symbol => something from each cycle. Lets say ["first", "seconds"] converts to {symbol_1: "first", symbol_2: "second"}
<jhass> No :)
<FromGitter> <AlesLulak> Yes, sorry, I just found it cannot bet done, thanks :)
<jhass> Crystal doesn't have a runtime symbol table, it's just compile time, that's why
<jhass> if you compare string literals to string literals it'll be as fast really
<FromGitter> <AlesLulak> Thank you, I'll use strings
<FromGitter> <anoopjoker7_twitter> Crystal-lang gay
<jhass> 🏳️‍🌈
<FromGitter> <anoopjoker7_twitter> Is crystal-lang better than Kotlinscript
<jhass> Is icecream better than canke? 🤔
<jhass> *cake, even
<FromGitter> <anoopjoker7_twitter> Or applescript
<jhass> mmh, apple cake
<FromGitter> <wyhaines> Anyone awake who is conversant with the msgpack library? I'm trying to simulate pushing data into a socket and then getting it back out at the other end using an IO::Memory. ⏎ ⏎ https://imgur.com/a/p9GWLo2
<FromGitter> <Blacksmoke16> @wyhaines i think it works similarly to like `JSON::PullParser`
<oprypin> wyhaines: new_data.as(Array)[2].as(String)
<FromGitter> <Blacksmoke16> so like try `new_data.read_array[2]`
<jhass> or array = new_data.is_a?(Array) if you're not sure
<jhass> eh, if ...
<FromGitter> <wyhaines> 👀
<FromGitter> <Blacksmoke16> `consume_array` that takes a block which yields each value is also a thing it looks like
<FromGitter> <Blacksmoke16> sorry this would be `unpacker.xxx`
<FromGitter> <wyhaines> OK. Thanks. Those comments demystified it enough. Thank you.
<jhass> Travis running: https://travis-ci.org/github/jhass/crystal/builds/695686011 any bets how long it's gonna take? I bet timeout given how long it's stuck in the recompile compiler step already :D
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<jhass> https://github.com/worksonarm/cluster/ this is interesting
<Stephie> jhass, i think submitting for a build machine there would be worth doing
<jhass> yeah, definitely
<jhass> not sure if I can or somebody from Manas should though
<Stephie> nah
<jhass> I mean they want to be on the sponsors page from what I gathered
<Stephie> im sure thats easy to arrange
<jhass> yeah, I'll give the manas guys a day or so to react and if not I just go ahead
<Stephie> as long as we're communicating what we're doing
<Stephie> yeah
<FromGitter> <wyhaines> New question. Since IO.select doesn't exist, how can I test whether there is readable data on a socket (or any IO) before I try to read from it? Rescuing `MessagePack::EofError` when `unpacker.read` fails seems like a poor life choice.
<Stephie> you're not supposed to do that
<Stephie> there should be an unpacker.read? which returns nil on EOF
<Stephie> it seems to me like just bad library design if you want this just to discover EOF
<Stephie> that being said, the unpacker has a "current_token" method
<Stephie> which seems like what you want to check
<Stephie> i'd make an issue on the msgpack library
<Stephie> and workaround it with checking current_token for now
<Stephie> oh, ugh
<Stephie> they raise EofError everywhere
<FromGitter> <wyhaines> current_token also just raises EOF if there is nothing...
<FromGitter> <wyhaines> yeah.
<FromGitter> <wyhaines> :)
<Stephie> this is the point where i rewrite the library in anger
<Stephie> but, i guess you're not interested in that solution
<FromGitter> <wyhaines> Hahaha. I've only been productively using Crystal for a relatively short time, so I'm still adapting to the things that my Ruby brain wants to do that is fundamentally different with Crystal.
<Stephie> well in ruby, it was still a bad idea
<Stephie> disovering "will this read succeed" is more of an operating system art, not a science, and asking the question is almost always a terrible idea
<Stephie> it's just ruby caved and let you do this
<Stephie> instead of saying "no that horrible"
<FromGitter> <wyhaines> Using select? Yeah, with the Ruby msgpack implementation, I don't have to. I was just casting about for possible solutions to the problem that don't involve me rewriting part of the library or something.
<Stephie> well select asks a different question
<Stephie> it asks if there's data to read
<FromGitter> <wyhaines> I know.
<Stephie> if you're reading from a network socket that's very different to knowing if there's an EOF
<Stephie> you basically have "definitely no EOF" and "who knows" as answers
<Stephie> which is not what you want
<Stephie> for now, i'd probably just rescue EOF, create an issue, and work out a better solution if it does become a performance problem
<FromGitter> <wyhaines> I know. That's tangential to the quandary, though, which is -- is there an efficient way to do this with the current msgpack library?
<FromGitter> <wyhaines> *nod* That's where I am at right now.
<Stephie> ah, no
<Stephie> sorry for the slightly disappointing answer
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<jhass> best in the PR, I don't think anybody with merge access listens currently here :)
<ryanprior> done :)
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<raz> hmm, will crystal eventually get incremental compilation (perhaps post 1.0)?
<raz> as my project grows the compile time starts to become a bit of a drag
<FromGitter> <naqvis> my guess would be post 2.0 or higher, as post 1.0 will be focusing more on windows, debugger, MT etc
<FromGitter> <naqvis> but don't loose hope :D
<raz> i never lose hope! :p
<raz> that new macbook just gave less of a boost than i hoped
<raz> funny how windows still hurts me even two decades after i stopped using it, now by taking precedence over features i care about :p
<FromGitter> <naqvis> yeah, who knows newer version of windows might be just a WDM running on linux :D
<raz> i really don't get how people are still using it. the one thing it had going for it was games and a solid window manager.
<raz> now all that's left is games...
<FromGitter> <naqvis> but this shows the power of linux and how it frightened and forcing M$ to incorporate this into their totally unrelated OS
<FromGitter> <Blacksmoke16> most games work fine via wine/proton at this point
<FromGitter> <Blacksmoke16> only ran into like 1 i want to play that doesnt work
<raz> well, ok then i don't know what's left. unless you're into malware. i guess then it's still the platform of choice
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<FromGitter> <kinxer> Right now I think what they have going for them is ubiquity and "just works"-ness. There's just a lot of software that people are used to that works well (likely best, due to greater support) on Windows, and it requires less work than Linux. In public perception, Windows is a normal-person OS, whereas Apple OSes are for rich people, and Linux is for "geeks" (i.e. someone with some technical know-how, or at least
<FromGitter> ... a desire to tinker). Honestly, my experience with those three options (Windows, Apple personal computer OSes, and Linux) mostly confirms that perception. I suppose maybe something like Elementary OS could flout that, but I don't have experience with it.
<FromGitter> <kinxer> Also, realistically, there's a lot of corporate support for Windows and Microsoft products generally due to the inertia of already using them.
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<oprypin> wow nothing at all happening on the weekends in Crystal. that's crazy
<jhass> make something happen!
<oprypin> no i gave up 2:30am yesterday/today
<jhass> :P
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<FromGitter> <kinxer> I'm hoping to convert some Python scripts I have for doing data crunching on PHOIBLE (phoible.org) into Crystal soon, but I didn't have time this weekend.
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<raz> hmm. does `crystal spec` really not have a --fail-fast option
<jhass> it does?
<jhass> maybe not documented?
<raz> crystal spec --help doesn't tell me
<jhass> hum, I could swear I've seen it the other day somewhere
<jhass> ah it's an option on the spec binary rather than crystal spec
<jhass> we should make sure crystal spec passes it through and document it there
<jhass> contributions welcome :)
<jhass> all the other options on the spec binary too
<raz> well, i'm trying to contribute to a shard. gotta pick my battles :D
<FromGitter> <GaryMiller> <raz> Microsoft is assimilating Linux and you're too foolish to recognize it. Microsoft will make the billions of dollars in the cloud while people like you do all their coding for free! People like you used to be called slaves. But now you call yourselves Open Source Developers. Windows still hurts you two decades after you quit using it because because every year you say to yourself that people will
<FromGitter> ... wake up and this will be the year of Linux and every year it is now. Every year new players in the Linux field fragment it more and more and the only company to big enough to create a standard around is your mortal enemy. And the language that you want to promote can't even support it.
<jhass> oh noes
<jhass> do we have mods in gitter?
<raz> lol. i must've hurt his feelings
<jhass> by that argument amazon, orcale, google, ibm and idk who else is "assimilating", whatever that really means, for decades already :D
<raz> calling that an "argument" is very polite of you ;)
<FromGitter> <Blacksmoke16> > <jhass> ah it's an option on the spec binary rather than crystal spec
<FromGitter> <Blacksmoke16> hm? `crystal spec --fail-fast` works fine
<jhass> yeah I guess it forwards any arguments it doesn't know
<jhass> raz: I am polite!
<jhass> sometimes
<raz> ah gtk!
<raz> must be the brainwash from all the free slave labor ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<FromGitter> <Blacksmoke16> unsure if thats sarcasm or real...
<jhass> why not both. Can we have both?
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