sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<oleganza>
andytoshi: that [Bootle et al '16] paper mentioned by Benedikt looks like my suggestion to use separate generators per digit in MW mailing list
<oleganza>
but i can't find that paper anywhere
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<andytoshi2>
oleganza: very interesting. i'm out right now, can't look it up... very glad that bram asked about interactivity of aggregation
<andytoshi2>
this could yet be useful for a low-value sinking signature mimblewimble chain where all txes involve interaction. but i dunno
<andytoshi2>
i'm disappointed that the big space savings require linking rangeproofs together like this
<andytoshi2>
btw congrats on your sound rangeproof scheme, it's super cool
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<oleganza>
andytoshi2: thanks. Unfortunately, while compact, soundness incurs 2x CPU cost. If we fiat-shamir around it, that'd be a 2x faster (so the same as w/o PQ hardening), but also not PQ-sound anymore.
<oleganza>
i'm looking into the ways to optimize slightly to maybe reuse some scalar multiplications so we don't have 4 scalar mults per ring element, but maybe 3 or smth
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<oleganza>
Also, "compact" compared to non-PQ rangeproof - meaning, the same size
<oleganza>
not so compact really
<Alanius>
I don't see why you would want your non-interactivity transformation to be post-quantum if you're relying on elliptic curves ... so what are you relying on?
<andytoshi2>
heh, yeah, but same size is still pretty good
<andytoshi2>
alanius: a quantum computer can't make two ec points add to something else
<andytoshi2>
so soundness is still a possible pq goal even if the crypto is totally broken
<Alanius>
interesting distinction :)
<nsh>
andytoshi2, oleganza: any link for this new rangeproof stuff?
<oleganza>
have no link yet
<oleganza>
i'm also not there to ask in person
<andytoshi2>
oleg's thing is linked on the mimblewimble mailing list
<oleganza>
but i don't have any docs re: Bunz talk today
<nsh>
ty
<Alanius>
also, at the risk of pointing out the obvious, we don't know for sure that Fiat-Shamir is insecure against quantum computers; it's just the proof of security that breaks down and it's possible for all we know that FS is non-provably PQ secure
<andytoshi2>
i still haven't studied quantum ro model, it's on my list
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* nsh
muses for a moment on whether something can be secure but its security can be provably non-provable
<nsh>
, decides not
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