2015-10-30 00:53
sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development |
http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit
http://bitcoin.ninja
00:07
Lafayette has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:08
priidu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:08
Guest72065 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:24
Ylbam has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
00:24
rmwb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:24
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:24
oleganza has quit [Quit: oleganza]
00:31
Samdney has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
00:36
CubicEarthh has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:54
CubicEarthh has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:00
CubicEarthh has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:01
CubicEarthh has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:19
rusty has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:37
fibonacci has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
01:39
lmatteis has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
01:41
CubicEarthh has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:42
CubicEarthh has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:48
King_Rex has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:11
CubicEarthh has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
02:34
CubicEarthh has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:39
isle2983 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
02:39
rusty has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:40
isle2983 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:42
rmwb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:42
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:46
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
02:52
CubicEar_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:53
alp has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
02:53
CubicEarthh has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
02:56
CubicEar_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
02:57
Belkaar has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
02:58
Belkaar has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:58
Belkaar has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:58
Belkaar has quit [Changing host]
02:59
pro has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:10
CubicEarthh has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:16
CubicEarthh has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:17
CubicEar_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:22
CubicEar_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
03:23
oleganza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:24
fibonacci has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:24
danrobinson has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
03:26
Giszmo has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
03:28
CubicEarthh has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:33
goksinen has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:33
CubicEar_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:33
dodomojo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:36
CubicEarthh has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
03:37
CubicEar_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:37
goksinen has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
03:45
d9b4bef9 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:45
Giszmo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:46
d9b4bef9 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:51
n1ce has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:58
dodomojo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:00
legogris has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:00
legogris has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:03
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:27
RubenSomsen has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:38
TheSeven has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
04:38
tad_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
04:38
tad_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:41
Ruben has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:42
RubenSomsen has quit [Quit: Leaving]
04:42
TheSeven has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:42
Ruben has quit [Client Quit]
04:42
RubenSomsen has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:44
RubenSomsen has quit [Client Quit]
04:44
RubenSomsen has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:19
Giszmo has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
05:28
jtimon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
05:54
droark has quit [Quit: Later.]
06:13
juscamarena has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:15
MoALTz has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:16
juscamarena has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:17
oleganza has quit [Quit: oleganza]
06:18
rmwb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:19
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:32
Ylbam has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:33
shesek has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
06:38
punindented has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:38
punindented has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:38
punindented has quit [Changing host]
06:38
punindented has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:38
punindented has quit [Changing host]
06:47
BashCo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:57
RubenSomsen has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
07:04
kexkey has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
07:04
juscamarena has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:05
juscamarena has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:07
BashCo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:17
fibonacci has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
07:19
CubicEarthh has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:19
RubenSomsen has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:23
CubicEarthh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
07:25
BashCo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
07:26
waxwing has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
07:30
BashCo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:37
waxwing has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:00
lmatteis has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:05
jannes has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:06
tad_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
08:15
rmwb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:19
CubicEarthh has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:27
BashCo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
08:32
kenshi84 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
08:32
BashCo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:53
CubicEarthh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:57
BashCo_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:58
shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:00
BashCo has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
09:03
wasi has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:15
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:20
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
09:21
kenshi84 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:28
shesek has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
09:45
RubenSomsen has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
10:26
waxwing has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
10:27
Guyver2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:41
waxwing has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:49
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:50
belcher_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
10:59
RubenSomsen has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:59
belcher_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:00
MaxSan has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:02
MaxSan has quit [Client Quit]
11:12
pro has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:22
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
11:50
Yogh has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:54
BashCo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:01
RubenSomsen has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:04
BashCo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:08
Samdney has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:14
alpalp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:14
alpalp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:14
alpalp has quit [Changing host]
12:19
King_Rex has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:20
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:29
lmatteis has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
12:37
laurentmt has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:37
laurentmt has quit [Client Quit]
12:39
ananteris has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:44
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:44
AaronvanW has quit [Changing host]
12:44
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:44
Davasny has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:45
Davasny is now known as Guest68310
12:45
alpalp has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
12:46
shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:46
jtimon has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:49
rockhouse has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
12:50
Guest68310 is now known as Davasny
12:53
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
13:21
str4d has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
13:27
Cory has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
13:31
Pasha has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:35
Pasha is now known as Cory
13:38
thrmo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:48
rockhouse has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:51
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:52
danrobinson has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:01
MaxSan has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:23
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
14:28
BashCo_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:33
BashCo has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
14:41
BashCo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:42
talmai has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:43
BashCo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
14:54
<
sipa >
Alanius: hey
14:54
<
Alanius >
sipa: message received
15:01
<
kanzure >
was that the uasf activation codesequence?
15:21
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:30
cluckj has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:42
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:51
abpa has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:52
talmai has quit [Quit: mining]
15:53
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
15:56
talmai has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:18
thrmo has quit [Quit: Waiting for .007]
16:27
Naphex has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
16:28
danrobinson has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
16:30
CubicEarthh has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:31
talmai has quit [Quit: mining]
16:42
BashCo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:42
BashCo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:47
BashCo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
16:52
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:52
Giszmo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:54
talmai has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:59
BashCo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:00
cytek has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
17:03
danrobinson has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:03
atgreen has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:04
_whitelogger has quit [K-Lined]
17:06
_whitelogger has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:07
danrobinson has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
17:08
CheckDavid has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:12
oleganza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:13
cytek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:22
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
17:24
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
17:34
Burrito has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:37
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:50
RubenSomsen has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:50
thrmo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:54
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
18:07
oleganza has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:22
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:34
talmai has quit [Quit: mining]
18:36
jnewbery has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:41
talmai has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:45
priidu has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:50
harrymm has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:54
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
18:55
atgreen has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:08
mol has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:11
molz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:13
harrymm has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:16
talmai has quit [Quit: mining]
19:17
chjj has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
19:23
<
yoleaux >
Ask HN: Current Crypto Best Practices | Hacker News
19:30
brianhoffman has quit [Quit: brianhoffman]
19:32
atgreen has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
19:33
oleganza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:34
<
oleganza >
"Better Bitcoin Confidential Transactions using short Range Proofs", next Monday at Stanford.
19:38
kenshi84 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:38
smartcontracts1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
19:38
kenshi84 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:38
<
waxwing >
looks interesting oleganza :)
19:39
<
oleganza >
my wild guess is that it'll be based on pairings :)
19:45
shesek has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
19:47
<
kanzure >
thanks for streamlink
19:48
smartcontracts1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:50
MoALTz has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:51
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:51
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:54
CheckDavid has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
19:56
shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:01
chjj has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:03
RubenSomsen has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20:04
wumpus has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
20:06
wumpus has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:13
coinkeeper has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:24
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20:44
NewLiberty_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:48
NewLiberty has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20:54
Guyver2 has quit [Quit: :)]
21:01
Davasny has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:18
lmatteis has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:22
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:54
jannes has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:55
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
21:59
priidu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
22:11
kristofferR has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:32
MaxSan has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
22:41
jnewbery has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:46
alpalp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:46
alpalp has quit [Changing host]
22:46
alpalp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:53
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:07
<
Taek >
"Reverse engineering of a particular mining chip has demonstrated conclusively that ASICBOOST has been implemented in hardware."
23:07
<
Taek >
if segwit breaks that hardware optimization, it would explain resistance to move to segwit
23:08
<
oleganza >
"Had there been awareness of exploitation of this attack an effort would have been made to avoid incompatibility-- simply to separate concerns. But the best methods of implementing the covert attack are significantly incompatible with virtually any method of extending Bitcoin's transaction capabilities;"
23:10
<
gmaxwell >
oleganza: was that hard to read? I think if we knew there were this concern we would have tried to engineer around it (while seperately other people would probably have written BIPs to go block the attack). So as to avoid foolishness like people arguing against segwit because they just wanted to preserve their ability to boost.
23:12
<
oleganza >
i'm just highlighting the point you make. Do you say that even if you knew about that attack, it'd be a huge PITA to engineer around it?
23:13
<
oleganza >
i understand and support the "separation of concerns" argument
23:15
<
oleganza >
i'm worried that miners won't be too excited to obsolete their machines too early or too sharply on the flag date.
23:15
<
oleganza >
(Amazing investigation, by the way, gmaxwell!)
23:16
<
kanzure >
the attack details were known, not known was whether the covert method was implemented
23:17
<
kanzure >
(because it's, you know, covert and such.)
23:18
<
oleganza >
kanzure: got it.
23:20
<
gmaxwell >
oleganza: yea, part of what I spent the last month doing is trying to figure out how to engineer around it.
23:21
<
gmaxwell >
I do not believe any machine (even by parties using asicboost) would be obsoleted.
23:22
<
gmaxwell >
oleganza: I don't think there is any way to engineer around it that doesn't add non-trivial amount of complexity and technical debt. Which means there is no way I could propose it without spelling out exactly what it is trying to accomidate, which then people would oppose because boosting is bad news for Bitcoin's future if held privately.
23:23
<
oleganza >
won't this BIP mean ASICBOOST users lose their 30% advantage?
23:23
K1NGREX has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:23
<
gmaxwell >
oleganza: yes. Well: (1) they could mine empty blocks, or (2) they could use the version bits modifying form. (I believe it is very likely that any hardware which can do the root griding form can also do the version modifying form).
23:24
<
gmaxwell >
Of course, the first loses transaction fees, and both are very obvious, which would fuel efforts to block the further use, or licensing from the patent holders.
23:25
<
oleganza >
when you say "coinbase MUST either contain a BIP-141 segwit commitment or a correct WTXID commitment with ID 0xaa21a9ef" do you mean a WTXID for the empty block?
23:25
King_Rex has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:25
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
23:26
danrobinson has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:26
<
oleganza >
by 0xaa21a9ef do you mean 0xaa21a9ef0000000000000...0000 where all-zero hash is the witness root of the empty block? I'm confused on what's the difference between the two allowed commitments.
23:34
skeuomorf has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:36
<
oleganza >
Ouch, that's for the non-segwit miners: "Non-segwit miners can become compatible by simply including an additional output matching a default commitment value returned as part of getblocktemplate."
23:36
<
oleganza >
question withdrawn
23:39
alpalp has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
23:58
Burrito has quit [Quit: Leaving]