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<ThinThread> why the block height isnt in the block header?
<phantomcircuit> ThinThread, why would it need to be in the block header?
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<CodeShark> so in the end, blockchains are just going to be dispute resolution mechanisms - sort of like a fix to the prisoner's dilemma, making cooperation the equilibrium strategy
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<CodeShark> and a second potential application for them is censorship resistance...but this one's a little less clear to me
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<leakypat> CodeShark: is this in reference to the hyperledger thing ?
<CodeShark> leakypat: not specifically...
<CodeShark> leakypat: just a general observation :p
<leakypat> The word blockchain is one of those catch on words
<leakypat> It's now used to loosely describe anything that uses distributed data and crypto of some kind
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<Eliel> yes, it's becoming somewhat too broad of a word to be useful in the general sense it's being used.
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<leakypat> Funny to watch Blythe Mathers talk about this
<leakypat> "Make no mistake, this will change everything"
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<leakypat> The tech has been around and possible for years, it is a case of banks collaborating and building a system they all use
<leakypat> *Masters
<CodeShark> distributed ledgers aren't the exact same thing as a trustless dispute resolution mechanism
<CodeShark> although they surely are ultimately a building block
<leakypat> It's probably a lot better business this stuff, for profit *now*
* leakypat imagines the consultancy fees
<leakypat> It's annoying how certain people position it as some competitor to Bitcoin
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<CodeShark> the real breakthroughs right now seem to be happening in the area of how to construct proofs over these ledgers with minimal need for validation
<CodeShark> the default behavior is to assume cooperation - but if there's a dispute, both parties do worse than had they cooperated
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<CodeShark> and the proofs are based on interactive cryptographic protocols
<CodeShark> or noninteractive...in the case of the need to take the dispute global
<CodeShark> but that's usually only a last resort
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<CodeShark> the key is to try to make it so that the need to validate is the exception rather than the rule...or at least can be done using nondeterministic sampling
<CodeShark> or preferably both :)
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<moa> the blockchain is judge, jury and executioner in a smart contract
<CodeShark> right, moa...but it's best not to even have to take the case to court :)
<moa> which is the default behavioour in a civilised society
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<moa> smart contracts are probably more properly referred to as executable contracts
<zooko> Dumb, but executable.
<moa> otherwise what if there was smart smart contract, like and executable contract that was well-written?
<zooko> "smart" means (a) drains your battery faster, (b) doesn't work sometimes for random reasons, (c) is loyal to a large remote corporation instead of to you.
<moa> right
<moa> clever smart contracts?
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<CodeShark> (a) and (b) could be mitigated somewhat with good engineering, but (c) is still a problem :p
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<CodeShark> it's already hard enough with the current EULA crap we have to read - imagine the average joe having to analyze code :p
<zooko> CodeShark: the average joe needs a bot on his side.
<CodeShark> sooner or later you run into either complexity or undecidability issues
<CodeShark> at least if P != NP :p
<zooko> Um, I'm skeptical.
<CodeShark> there's always ways to fool a bot
<zooko> The bot that fights for the user doesn't need to statically analyze the code.
<zooko> (Note: can we call it Tron, please?)
<CodeShark> lol
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<moa> wonder if 'Tron' or "I fight for the user" are trademarked?
<moa> apparently it is ... google search shows up a 1989 email exchange to a usenet newsgroup asking/answering that question !
<CodeShark> smart attorneybots?
<CodeShark> attorneybot contracts?
<moa> expert witness = oracles
<CodeShark> this is definitely going to get very interesting :)
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<zooko> By the way, Tron was Alan Kay.
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<leakypat> So 3 big pools have come out against the XT hard fork now...
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<leakypat> Oops, misleading headline in coin telegraph , my bad
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<waxwing> so is the idea of a commitment-as-pubkey (which can then be signed against, conditionally) new to confidential transactions? is there anything like that before?
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<TheButterZone> $3 million to $1250. is there seriously not $3 million laying around somewhere to scoop it up and drop a 8329 BTC wall at $1251
<cosmo> on one exchange?
<TheButterZone> stamp
<cosmo> paaaatience
<cosmo> why would they want to buy 3m BTC now at $1000/ea, when they could slowly accumulate the same amount @ $250/ea over a period of a year or two?
<TheButterZone> nobody's accumulating, they're just mini-pumping and dumping
<TheButterZone> while miners dump constantly
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<nsh> (off-topic here)
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