apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby to: programming language || ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text in http://pastie.org || Rails is in #rubyonrails
<kallisti> the special case is: a, b, c, ... = some_array
<kallisti> the arrays elements are assigned to the list of variables
<heftig> yes.
<kallisti> that's a weird general case. :P
<heftig> no, that's the regular list assignment case
<heftig> you have a list of 3 on the left side and a list of 1 on the right side
<shadoi> jaysern: did you ever try pointing it at the header files you found last time?
<kallisti> heftig: so then the expression on the right side is implicitly treated as a length-1 list...
<shevy> checking for archive.h... no
<shevy> jaysern you probably lack all headers from libarchive
<shevy> let me guess jaysern this is debian right?
<kallisti> I realize this is a trivial thing to be discussing, but I'm trying to wrap my mind around it.
<jaysern> os x 10.6 snow leopard
<heftig> kallisti: you're doing list assignment, of course it's treated as a list
<shevy> I see
<jaysern> i'm confused, am i supposed to install libarchive (say, using macports or brew), then gem install libarchive?
<shevy> not sure about mac
<shevy> you could ask on #machomebrew, perhaps they even have a formula for libarchive
<kallisti> heftig: right.
<jaysern> so gem install libarchive is a ruby interface to it ?
<shevy> at least they all use ruby + mac there
<shevy> I am pretty sure it is
<shadoi> libarchive is in OS X, you just need to point to the right location using "—with-opt-include" etc.
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<kallisti> heftig: so was it because I said "length-1 array" originally that made it false, instead of "length-1 list"
<heftig> yes
<kallisti> ah I see
<kallisti> a, b = 1, 2
<kallisti> this works fine
<kallisti> ?
<heftig> yes.
<kallisti> the "list" is a syntactic thing. the special case is that an array is expanding into a "list"
<kallisti> got it.
<heftig> yes.
<kallisti> *expanded
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<robacarp> a, b, c = b, c, nil
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<robacarp> ^ also valid
<heftig> a, b = b, a for one-line swapping
<jaysern> am i passing it wrong? gem install libarchive -v '0.1.2' --with-opt-include=/usr/libERROR: While executing gem ... (OptionParser::InvalidOption)invalid option: --with-opt-include=/usr/lib
<kallisti> heftig: I was confused because someones example earlier used an array directly. a, b, c = [1,2,3] like this
<shadoi> jaysern: yes, point it to the location where you found archive.h
<heftig> kallisti: yes, but that explains why a, b, c = "foo bar baz".split works
<kallisti> heftig: yes
<kallisti> so it works very similarly to the way perl list assignment works, but with different underlying semantic reasons.
<jaysern> gem install libarchive --with-opt-include=/usr/lib <-- gem is saying --with-opt-include is wrong
<shadoi> because it's wrong.
<shadoi> the header file isn't in /usr/lib
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<heftig> kallisti: the stuff gets even more complex if you introduce parentheses
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<kallisti> heftig: (a,b),c = ... # like this?
<heftig> yes
<kallisti> I can grok that.
<kallisti> already
<jaysern> well .. it's saying invalid option - not complaining about the directory
<kallisti> (I think)
<heftig> parentheses break up arrays
<jaysern> am i missing an argument to gem ?
<shadoi> for all your navel gazing pleasure.
<heftig> a,(b,c),d = 1,[2,3],4
<kallisti> heftig: Haskell has pattern matching, which takes this kind of stuff to a whole new level. So this is still pretty tame.
<kallisti> nice.
<kallisti> good to know that's possible.
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<kallisti> is there a way to assign the remainder of an array to a variable?
<heftig> splat
<td123> a, *b, c = (1..4).to_a
<heftig> a,(b,c,*d),e = 1,[2,3,4,5],6
<jaysern> when i do a brew install libarchive, it says: Error: No available formula for libarchiveApple distributes libarchive with OS X, you can find it in /usr/lib.
<td123> a = 1, b = [2,3], c = 4
<kallisti> ah
<shadoi> jaysern: try just --with-opt-include, no argument (I think you said this is where it was last time on 10.5)
<kallisti> cool
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<heftig> a,(b,c,*d),*e,f = 1,[2,3,4,5],6,7,8
<kallisti> ah and that works like vararg function arguments as well
<kallisti> same principle
<kallisti> same syntax
<heftig> yes
<jaysern> shadoi: i upgraded to 10.6 from 10.5 since i couldn't get it to work
<kallisti> (method, I should say. you know what I mean. :P )
<heftig> yes :p
<shadoi> but PLEASE don't ever do it! :)
* kallisti thinks he'll enjoy Ruby as his scripting language of choice.
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<heftig> def foo(a,(b,c)); p a,b,c; end
<heftig> i don't think anypony does this
<kallisti> and ** is... to_h?
* kallisti is just guessing.
<heftig> kallisti: no
<heftig> ** only exists as a binary operator, which does power
<shevy> ** is power
<kallisti> right
<shevy> 2 ** 2
<shevy> 4
<kallisti> okay so then are there variadic hash arguments?
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<heftig> there's another syntactic things
<shevy> what is a variadic hash argument?
<heftig> foo :a => 3, :b => 4 is the same as foo({:a => 3, :b => 4})
<kallisti> ah
<heftig> you can add such a "loose" hash to a call. it's always the last argument
<kallisti> aha
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<heftig> which is pretty nice. foo a: 3, b: 4, c: 5 looks like named arguments
<kallisti> no parentheses required?
<heftig> nope
<heftig> optional.
<kallisti> always? or just with that syntax?
<heftig> well, as long as the syntax doesn't become ambiguous
<heftig> always.
<kallisti> oh..
<heftig> foo bar 3, 4 is ambiguous
<kallisti> Why lied to me (granted I haven't endured the whole book)
<shadoi> that's 1.9.3 only also
<heftig> the a: 3 syntax is 1.9
<kallisti> oh okay. so it's a pretty new thing.
<heftig> the rest is 1.8
<heftig> (or earlier)
<kallisti> ah
<shadoi> oh weird, I thought I saw the a: 3 syntax in the 1.9.3 changelog
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<kallisti> Perl does that kind of stuff pretty happily
<kallisti> foo bar 3, 4 I mean
<kallisti> but the Perl parser is not for mere mortals to understand.
<heftig> ruby spits out a warning
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<heftig> i'm not sure what exactly the precedence is, but using parentheses would be better
<kallisti> yeah
<kallisti> in Perl it uses knowledge of its builtins and how many arguments they require.
<kallisti> and things like that.
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<heftig> ruby doesn't have many builtins
<kallisti> right
<heftig> the only one i can recall now is defined?
<kallisti> Array[1,2,3,4] woah, that's some inventive use of the [] operator.:P
<jaysern> ok, i dont know how or why, but this solved my problem: brew install https://raw.github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-dupes/master/libarchive.rb
<shevy> [] is consistent across ruby classes. if you want to use it in your class. class Foo; def [](input)
<kallisti> yeah
* kallisti understands all of that.
<heftig> Hash[1,2,3,4]
<kallisti> my second thought was: oh I bet a lot of collections do that
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<shadoi> jaysern: it just put archive.h in a location that's searched automatically.
<heftig> Vector[1,2,3]; Matrix[[1,3,4],[2,4,5]]
<kallisti> heftig: in the Hash examples is that {1 => 2, 3 => 4}
<kallisti> *example
<heftig> yes
<heftig> i also used it earlier
<heftig> Hash[["a","b","c"].zip("AA:BB:CC".split(":"))]
<kallisti> ah
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<heftig> well, Hash's [] method is special-cased again if you supply a single array
<kallisti> I was about to ask. :)
<heftig> Hash[[[1,2],[3,4]]]
<kallisti> is that a general rule? obj.method(array) flattnes the array?
<kallisti> or is that only the case with a * argument?
<heftig> no, it's not general
<shadoi> flatten and * are different things in ruby.
<kallisti> I see Array has #[](*args)
<heftig> *arg calls .to_a if it's not an array, and then expands
<kallisti> right
<shevy> it collects into args, so you can use any amount of arguments to this method
<kallisti> but if it were: #[](args)
<kallisti> that wouldn't happen
<shevy> that would be one argument called "args"
<kallisti> got it.
<heftig> well, *args as a function argument just collects all args into an array
<heftig> if you supply a single array, then you get an array in the array
<heftig> the function would then need code to handle this as a special case
<heftig> (s/function/method/(
<kallisti> oh, which is what Array#[] does
<kallisti> oh nevermind
<kallisti> it doesn't do that.
<heftig> nope
<kallisti> you have to use *
<heftig> but Hash.[] does
<heftig> (not Hash#[])
<kallisti> right that's what I meant
<kallisti> Hash[[1,2,3,4]] returns {}
<heftig> yes. if you supply an array, it expects it to contain pairs
<kallisti> am I missing something?
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<kallisti> ah
<kallisti> > Hash[[[1,2],[3,4]]]
<kallisti> => {1=>2, 3=>4}
<kallisti> there we go
<kallisti> that's kind of weird. but okay. :P
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<heftig> only weird if you write it with a literal like that
<kallisti> well the overloading is a bit odd.
<kallisti> could easily just be 2 seperate methods
<kallisti> the syntax isn't an issue.
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<kallisti> it's bad when I have to explicitly try to find official reference material when googling around, instead of Some Guy's Poorly Written Blog.
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<heftig> kallisti: googling doesn't send you to ruby-doc.org?
<kallisti> well I searched "ruby case statement"
* kallisti is in the right place now
<kallisti> maybe I should have searched for "case expression"
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<heftig> kallisti: ===, if implemented, tends to not be commutative
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<kallisti> out of curiosity, anyone here know Haskell?
<kallisti> heftig: yes I see that
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<td123> kallisti: what's your question?
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<kallisti> there isn't one anymore. :P
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<kallisti> the question I never asked was "how do case expressions work, in detail?" turns out references are pretty good at answering that question.
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<localpc4> I m ruby newbie -while i run irb, can i run it with my custom ruby scripts? so i could use those functions
<localpc4> got it, load "file"
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<jaysern> thanks so much guys
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<kallisti> I'm using _ as a throwaway variable in a list assignment
<kallisti> is there a more idiomatic way?
<kallisti> _, a, b, c = ...
<kallisti> I don't use _
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<Veejay> a, b, c, d = *some_array and then go on to work with b, c and d
<Veejay> Or some shift followed by an assignment
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<lectrick> I'm trying to YAML a complex object and filter which sub-objects get YAML'ed. This turns out to be hard if there is not a simple hash involved. Anyone have any ideas?
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<lectrick> Basically I need to serialize and deserialize a request.headers object that has crazy other objects in it like IO objects which toss errors when I try to deserialize
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<kallisti> is there anything like Perl's <>
<lectrick> and i keep getting "uninitialized constant Syck::Syck" when I try to YAML.load :(
<lectrick> kallisti: is that a not equal comparison? !=
<kallisti> no
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<kallisti> it's reads all command line arguments as filepaths, reads them in order, or reads STDIN if no arguments are given
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<kallisti> either as a list or as a iterator
<kallisti> so like..
<kallisti> for (<>) { ... }
<kallisti> the loop variable iterates over every line in every file passed as arguments, or STDIN if none are provided.
<kallisti> I can write the logic myself if nothing like that exists.
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<llaskin> is there a way to say "if X is a string" or "if X is an array"
<kallisti> obj.kind_of? Array
<llaskin> awesome
<kallisti> llaskin: oh also: it's a small world on Freenode, I guess. :P
<llaskin> hah kallisti yes
<llaskin> i'm primariliy a rubyist
* kallisti just joined here today.
<kallisti> my first day writing Ruby code, even. :D
<llaskin> cool
<llaskin> i come in to ask random questions sometimes
<llaskin> i'm still learning:)
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<llaskin> kallisti: you can help me doc out the ruby apidocs for selenium if you want
<llaskin> thats my main task for the project
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<kallisti> perhaps later.
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<lectrick> arg. when I say YAML.dump obj, I get an error "wrong number of arguments (1 for 0)". When I just call YAML.dump, I get "wrong number of arguments (0 for 1)" This whole fricking YAML/Syck/Psych thing is a big headache
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<stercor> Where can I find a parenthesis/bracket matching program?
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<kallisti> stercor: you could just write one
<kallisti> it's a simple stack machine.
<stercor> That's what I don't want to do. I just want it to work. And, no, I'm not a student.
<stercor> Is there a Ruby code farm?
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<stercor> I have a LaTeX document and I can't find the unmatched {}.
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<kallisti> stercor: are you implying that students are the only ones that write actual code? :P
<stercor> kallisti: Not at all. But students come to IRC channels looking for someone to write an assignment for them.
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<kallisti> ah yes
<kallisti> stercor: do you only need to match brackets or are you actually parsing other stuff as well?
<stercor> kallisti: Brackets.\
<kallisti> and you basically just want a boolean if they match or not?
<stercor> kallisti: Be nice to tell where they are so I can fix it.
<stercor> I'm using vim yet again.
<stercor> One alternative is to comment half the code, see whether the error still exists, Binary search.
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<stercor> Found it.
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<localpc4> what does this mean?
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<localpc4> Float(self) != nil rescue false
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<looopy> not exactly the right place to ask this but has anyone ever changed homebrews permissions to 777?
<shevy> localpc4 that is horrible code IMO
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<Advant> I'm trying to run a ruby script, Cygwin env, that requires libz, and I've installed it but keep getting this error, `ffi_lib': Could not open library 'z':. Its looking for libz.so, Any ideas?
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<shevy> no idea
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<shevy> omg, I am starting to document my methods in one huge line :(
<shevy> def foo # this kills the world
<shevy> do_something_here
<shevy> end
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<nobitanobi> I have a question... When I type "hello world" in the IRB, what does the console return?
<nobitanobi> is it object.inspect?
<shevy> the string I suppose
<nobitanobi> the object itself
<nobitanobi> ?
<shevy> "hello world"
<shevy> # => "hello world"
<shevy> seems so
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<nobitanobi> yeah, so is the object itself... mmm
<shevy> :)
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<banisterfiend> kallisti: just put * before the Enumerator
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<heftig> kallisti: <> equivalent is ARGF
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<heftig> if ARGV is empty, ARGF reads from STDIN. otherwise, it takes ARGV as filenames and concatenates their contents
<heftig> ARGF.each_line { |line| ... }
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<heftig> so if received any options, make sure those are parsed (using OptionParser or whatever) and removed from ARGV before you try to read from ARGF
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<lewis> anybody in here learned ruby before rails?
<lewis> Actually what I meant to say is , is there someone who learned it for the sole purpose of using ror. If yes, when did you decide to jump to rails; did you practice your ruby first or did you directly learned rails then applied ruby to it
<epochwolf> lewis: why do you ask?
<lewis> epochwolf: up
<musl> lewis: Yep, but not before rails was available. :)
<epochwolf> lewis: why does it matter if I learned rails or ruby first?
<lewis> musl: I see
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<musl> lewis: Do you mean chronologically before rails or just order of learning? I still don't know rails all that well...
<lewis> epochwolf: well my problem is when you don't practice you forget things, you could finish an entire ruby book but if you don't get your hands dirty the foundations you've just learned are not solid
<nobitanobi> lewis: I did learn Ruby before learning Rails (chronologically speaking)
<epochwolf> lewis: it's kind of like asking me "Did you learn IRC or Lua first?"
<nobitanobi> lewis: let's say I started learning Ruby before learning Rails :P
<epochwolf> lewis: I learned both at the same time on a job.
<epochwolf> I am proficent with ruby with or without rails.
<lewis> so my dilemma is whether I should practice , waiting until I consider myself a good rubyist and do as many dummy program as I can before I move to rails or move to rails learn about it and apply ruby as I go
<epochwolf> lewis: you can learn them both at the same time.
<nobitanobi> +1 ^
<epochwolf> lewis: if you can learn to read both ruby and rails documenation, you can figure out what's ruby and what's rails.
<epochwolf> I did that on Rails 1.2 and ruby 1.8
<musl> I've found that some folks can't separate the std libs from rails / activesupport.
<epochwolf> musl: I have problems with that :D
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<musl> People pull in AS for a couple functions in really trivial scripts. Makes me a little irritated sometimes.
<lewis> nobitanobi: and did you move to rails right after learning the basics or did you practice
<epochwolf> musl: I'm primarily a rails developer. So when I go off rails, I need to read the docs and refresh my memory of what's rails and what's ruby.
<musl> hehe
<epochwolf> musl: I don't pull in active support unless I'm doing date heavy stuff.
<epochwolf> date/time*
<musl> One of the curses among the myriad blessings of monkeypatching.
<musl> epochwolf: I believe you. :)
<nobitanobi> When I started learning Rails I knew some basic Ruby...And I am still learning both.
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<lewis> epochwolf: what Im asking is what is going to be more practical. I assume that the time it's gonna take me to learn rails is some time I'm gonna waste by forgetting some ruby..before i actually start combining both
<epochwolf> lewis: um...
<epochwolf> lewis: you can learn both at the same time.
<epochwolf> grab yourself a book on ruby 1.9 (someone here can recommend a good one)
<lewis> epochwolf: a well grounded ruybist
<lewis> what book would you advise for rails
<robacarp_> lewis: I learned both at the same time.
<epochwolf> and then grab Rails 3 in Action (disclosure, I know the author and I'm helping him proof the second edition)
<robacarp_> but I'd been programming for ~12 years at that point, so ymmv
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<epochwolf> I was programming for about 2 years before I started rails.
<lewis> epochwolf: I'm not getting this book. no offense to radar but I don't quite like the writing style
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<epochwolf> lewis: no offense taken.
<lewis> epochwolf: but I'll give it a second change. in his defense I've just flipped through
<prometheus> to his/their credit, at least it teaches you to test from the get go and not as a passing after thought
<lewis> robacarp_: what books did you use( I know it comes up a lot). I guess different individuals have different ways to retain information
<epochwolf> prometheus: that would have been useful 5 years ago :/ almost 5 years rails experience and I didn't learn testing until last year.
<prometheus> epochwolf: but for someone new to rails/ruby it's immensely useful
<prometheus> (and new to testing, I should add)
<lewis> prometheus: also most of you guys are not the perfect audience to convince me, you already know some rails. If it was coming from someone who doesn't know rails at all and learned it all directly from his book it would have more weigh. (I volunteer to be this reviewer)
* lewis smiles
<prometheus> lewis: I don't know rails
<prometheus> well, I do, but all of that is from another book
<lewis> prometheus: hmm and that's the first book you ever used?
<lewis> exactly!
<prometheus> but I wish I had read this r3ia
<prometheus> instead
<prometheus> maybe not the first edition, but the second edition has been a good read so far
<lewis> I have yet to meet someone who just read it with zero knowledge
<prometheus> lewis: just pick up a book and work through ti :)
<prometheus> it*
<lewis> prometheus: don't underestimate what you learned with the previous book, the book might have been crap but you did learn things
<prometheus> just read some reviews on amazon/goodreads/whatever site you prefer and pick a book :)
<lewis> prometheus: good advise.
<epochwolf> lewis: I had the first edition of Agile Web Development with Rails.
<robacarp_> lewis: I used the oreilly ruby pocket reference, oreilly learning rails, and _most of all_, ruby-doc.org / api.rubyonrails.org
<prometheus> that's how I've picked my ruby books
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<prometheus> I've asked for some recommendations on irc, but mostly gone off my own intuition
<prometheus> lewis: the first ruby book I read was the rspec book :)
<robacarp_> the hardest thing about the internet is that there are so many tutorials that are out of date in the rails world...it changes too much. Ruby, on the other hand, is more or less stable and the docs are quite up to date.
<lewis> prometheus: and after you were done with it, you jumped to rails right away?
<prometheus> nope
<prometheus> I read ruby books
<TTilus> prometheus: good choise for a first book
<prometheus> well grounded rubyist, eloquent ruby
<prometheus> design patterns in ruby, metaprogramming..
<prometheus> objects on rails
<lewis> prometheus: I'm confused, ....do you read all of them at the same time
* lewis can't multitask
<prometheus> lewis: about 2-3 books at a time
<lewis> prometheus: what's the point
* TTilus also recommends reading/studying ruby codebases
<prometheus> when I get bored with a book, I'll read another for a bit :)
<epochwolf> robacarp_: it doesn't help that the primary tutorial has some bad parts in it that I keep having to explain to newbies at the rails meetup in seattle. :/
<prometheus> nothing beats reading good source code, though
<lewis> robacarp_: and did you use those books in order..
<lewis> TTilus: ruby codebase?
<prometheus> lewis: bottom line is, read/study something :)
<prometheus> start somewhere
<prometheus> that's the most important step
<TTilus> lewis: code of apps written in ruby
<lewis> prometheus: I'm almost done with a well grounded rubyist
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<prometheus> there you go :)
<lewis> prometheus: that's why i was thinking about the next step. and I have some basics with few programming language
<lewis> TTilus: can you link me
<prometheus> lewis: I think that depends on where you want to go
<lewis> robacarp_: i meant chronoligically...or did you read them like prometheus all at the same time...like prometheus himself
<robacarp_> lewis: I didn't read them, I referenced them when I was confused.
<lewis> prometheus: the goal is ror
<TTilus> lewis: go to github and look for oft watched/forked ruby projects
<TTilus> lewis: ruby stdlib is a good start
<prometheus> lewis: I'd say get a rails book then, because you'll know enough ruby to understand how things work
<prometheus> or at least, be able to read and study the code :)
<lewis> prometheus: epochwolf suggested that i grab a rail book when im done and start learning, that i should not worried about losing some of my ruby I've just learned..
<TTilus> lewis: and of course rails
<lewis> worry*
<prometheus> lewis: there isn't that much syntax to remember, tbh
<prometheus> and rails code is just ruby
<lewis> robacarp_: hmm
<robacarp_> just dive in, youll do fine.
<prometheus> yup
<TTilus> lewis: and while you read the code try to figure out what it does, how and why
<prometheus> I just read a lot of books because I had time to do that :)
<epochwolf> lewis: you'll use ruby stuff.
<TTilus> lewis: and of course, try to disagree with design coises
<epochwolf> lewis: jut remember, you have the book and you can look up ruby stuff if you need to
<lewis> robacarp_: ok thanks. epochwolf. i shall talk to you guys when im done with rails
<lewis> epochwolf: and ill go over radar book again, just in case
<robacarp_> lewis: you can always ask your questions in here and #rubyonrails, people are *usually* pretty nice
<lewis> TTilus: thanks man
<lewis> robacarp_: i usually hang in #math, so you shall see that happen
<prometheus> this channel is infinitely nicer than #python, fwiw ;)
<lewis> haha
<lewis> infinitely nicer than C
<prometheus> there's a lot of grumpy people over at #python
<lewis> #C
<epochwolf> lewis: I have no clue what robacarp_ is talking about. I'm a troll.
* epochwolf helps those who help themselves, everyone else gets trolled.
<robacarp_> man, if you want some real scowlers, #haskell
<prometheus> :)
<robacarp_> elitest bastards.
<epochwolf> robacarp_: okay, they make me look like a tribble.
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<robacarp_> :)
<banisterfiend> kallisti: sup
<epochwolf> robacarp_: I prefer "platypus"
<epochwolf> I should do a safe word of the day on my cubical at work.
<robacarp_> you know that is one of my favorite words.
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<epochwolf> robacarp_: any relation to "Perry"?
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<robacarp_> mmmmm, nope...
<lewis> robacarp_: haha really, I heard #haskell is just a different way of thinking. I was talking with someone last time who was telling why it's ten years ahead and languages like ruby can't compare aha
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<epochwolf> lewis: if it's anything like lisp, it's not going to work.
<robacarp_> epochwolf: there is so much of the world to which I just stare at in amazement before walking away.
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<epochwolf> robacarp_: sorry, I really love that cartoon. There was a real dearth of good cartoons when I was a kid. I'm making up for lost time.
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<banisterfiend> lewis: why did u put a # in front of haskell
<robacarp_> its not that I'm saying its not amazing, its that I'm wholly clueless... :-/
<lewis> epochwolf: I have no idea...needless to say that kind was convincing.
<epochwolf> banisterfiend: too much twitter has poisoned his brain.
<lewis> banisterfiend: I'm not sure actually...
<epochwolf> lewis: I've tried to understand haskell but I've gotten no where.
<robacarp_> banisterfiend: to reference the chat room...
<epochwolf> robacarp_: no, stick to the poisoning theory!
<banisterfiend> robacarp_: didnt qutie make sense in that context homie
<lewis> haha epochwolf, banisterfiend maybe too much ruby...method haskell of the a class
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<lewis> banisterfiend: i thought i was the only one who said homie on irc
<robacarp_> banisterfiend: yes it did, homie. because we were just talking about #C and #python and #haskell.
<epochwolf> lewis: he not be the only one, brah
<banisterfiend> robacarp_: "i heart "the IRC channel haskell" is a different way of thinking?"
<banisterfiend> heard*
<lewis> lol
<lewis> superclass troller?
<epochwolf> banisterfiend: that interpretation makes more sense than the language actually being a different way of thinking.
<robacarp_> banisterfiend: yeps.
<robacarp_> I've never tried to haskell.
<robacarp_> but I've always thought I should
<lewis> why is haskell sounds like the next best thing...everybody is trying to learn it
<epochwolf> lewis: everybody?
<banisterfiend> lewis: did you mean "the irc channel haskell is a different way of thinking" or did u mean "haskell (the language) is a differetn way of thinking" ?
* robacarp_ gets out knife, starts splitting hairs
<lewis> banisterfiend: according to this guy...it throw of anyone who's used to OOP
<banisterfiend> lewis: ah, so you meant the language :)
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<lewis> it's a procedural language with a different approach to my understanding
<lewis> thorws8
<banisterfiend> robacarp_: looks like you were wrong, homie.
<lewis> throws*
<robacarp_> that word makes me twitch, homie.
<banisterfiend> robacarp_: i do not like to be teased by foreigners about mathematical things
<robacarp_> ...wha
<epochwolf> lewis: if it's anything like lisp, it won't work.
<lewis> banisterfiend: Einstein was right
<epochwolf> lewis: haskell is funcitonal, not procedural.
<lewis> epochwolf: what's the difference
* lewis smiles
<epochwolf> lewis: google is your friend.
<epochwolf> lewis: the application is structured in functions, not a series of operations.
<robacarp_> lewis: did you just set a big-ol-trap o' computer science?
<epochwolf> lewis: functional languages have a fatal flaw of being extremely difficult to optimize because they completely abstract from the machine.
<banisterfiend> epochwolf: isn't haskell significantly faster than ruby? iirc
<lewis> epochwolf: would you consider C to be functional?
<lewis> banisterfiend: yes
<epochwolf> lewis: no.
<epochwolf> banisterfiend: yes.
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<banisterfiend> epochwolf: so the flaw might not be too fatal ;)
<lewis> robacarp_: lol
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<epochwolf> banisterfiend: perhaps not for web applications.
<epochwolf> banisterfiend: the problem with the web space is how well does your language allow you to manage strings.
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<epochwolf> and data formats like json, xml, etc.
<epochwolf> storing and retrieving data.
* robacarp_ goes to bed.
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<epochwolf> lewis: I can't even read this.
<epochwolf> lewis: he's using a bunch of terms without defining them rendering them largely meaningless in context.
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<epochwolf> okay, I'm going back to tribble land with my nook.
<lewis> epochwolf: the term “procedural” refers to a style of programming, and does not really describe a language
<lewis> actually haskell could be defined as procedural
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<lewis> epochwolf: in the same way you could write c so that it's functional. the bottom line is that it's arguable
<epochwolf> lewis: it's a mindset.
<epochwolf> okay, I'm way too tired to sort this out.
<lewis> 00:53 epochwolf: lewis: the application is structured in functions, not a series of operations. -> wrong
<lewis> epochwolf: good night :)
<musl> epochwolf: Pleasant period of rest to all. I must slumber as well.
<epochwolf> lewis: you are in fact wrong and I do not have to prove it.
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<banisterfiend> lewis: so you'd call ruby a procedural language? or a functional language? or an OOP language?
<lewis> 00:53 robacarp_: lewis: did you just set a big-ol-trap o' computer science? -> yes
* lewis smiles
<Sou|cutter> banisterfiend: OO and functional
* epochwolf hides under a pile of tribbles until the storm passes.
<banisterfiend> lewis: when someone says 'ruby is oop' they dont just mean it's possible to program in the oop style, but that the language actively promotes and facilitates it in its design.
<lewis> banisterfiend: OOP...but can be procedural...(I dont know much ruby)
<lewis> banisterfiend: I agree
<banisterfiend> lewis: same as even though you CAN program OOP in C, C is not generally considered an OOP language, as the langauge doesn't facilitate/support it
<lewis> banisterfiend: absolutely
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<Sou|cutter> yes, banisterfiend, you are on a roll
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<musl> banisterfiend: It's a rectangles & squares thing. I'd suppose that most if not all OOP laguages can be made to perform procedurally, right?
<epochwolf> musl: except Java
* musl considers the command pattern.
<epochwolf> and it's spawn and clones
<lewis> anyways guys. talk to you soon
<musl> I mean it now. To bed with me.
* epochwolf will stabs musl if he speaks in the next hour
<lewis> probably when im done with rails,
<lewis> adios
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<banisterfiend> musl: i think it's cute the way ruby can fake free standing functions/procedures, while still tying them into OOP
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<wolgo> anyone using graphvizr?
<wolgo> Let me rephrase
<wolgo> Is anyone that is currently in this room using graphvize
<wolgo> graphvizr
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<epochwolf> Is there anyone currently in this room using rails?
<banisterfiend> no, thankfully this room is normally an oasis away from the brain damaged rails crowd
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<banseljaj> epochwolf: I am, but i'm a noob with rails
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<TTilus> epochwolf: my day-job deals with rails, so yes
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<epochwolf> TTilus: I was trolling. I've used rails for 5 yeras.
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<lessless> does ruby still use one thread for multithreading?
<lessless> or can ruby process be run in a parallel?
<epochwolf> lessless: MRI still has a GIL is that's what you wanted to know.
<epochwolf> jRuby has full threading support.
<epochwolf> not sure what the state of Rubinus is
<lessless> epochwolf, yeah, that is it, one thread at time
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<Boohbah> lessless: consider process parallelism using MRI
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<Boohbah> lessless: Process.fork
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<banisterfiend> which one of these icons best speaks 'method' to u guys? http://cl.ly/2N1t0g1d3p30040v0v2M
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<burgestrand> banisterfiend: lower right if any, could possibly relate it to message sending
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<banisterfiend> burgestrand: thanks, got any other ideas for method icons?
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<burgestrand> banisterfiend: not really, except one could draw the icons from the perspective of performing actions and sending messages, not sure what that would be though
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: ah ok, btw did u see the new release show-source can show class/module source now too? :
<banisterfiend> :P
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<burgestrand> banisterfiend: yeah! haven’t used it yet though
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: ah ok :) np
<burgestrand> banisterfiend: what do you do for it? you iterate through all the methods and find their respective source?
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: no
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<banisterfiend> burgestrand: there's a command line switch that you can use to show all monkey patches of a class too (-a). Basically the approach is to look at all source_locations of methods for a given class, and then select the source file with the most hits (i.e most methods defined there) as the 'canonical definition'.
<banisterfiend> we then just move upwards from the source location of one of the methods in the chosen source file
<banisterfiend> and look for the start of the class definition
<banisterfiend> once we find it, we then read back down until we get the whole clss def
<banisterfiend> and that returns the source for the class def with the most methods defined in it. If you then pass -a, you'll see all class definitions for that class, ordered by most number of methods to least
<Mon_Ouie> banisterfiend: Maybe you could use an icon that makes you think of "message"?
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: see here https://gist.github.com/2405083
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: i did, but they all look like email icons
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: difficult to come up with something else :P
<Mon_Ouie> An arrow with text?
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: what text monny
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<Mon_Ouie> Something like "message"? Or an example of common method name?
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<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: ah ok
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: monny, do you enjoy life more in the small village?
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<Mon_Ouie> Not really. Sure, everything is calmer, but you have to go to the nearest town whenever you need something anyway
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: well i guess you will leave for college soon anyway
<Mon_Ouie> Yep, going next year
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<i256> hello
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<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: cool, which one do you hope to go to?
<i256> how embeded ruby in C program without io/operations (sandbox?)
<i256> and run script in ruby step by step (4ex. 100 cycles of VM)
<Mon_Ouie> UCL (Université Catholique de Louvain) — I just need to pass a math test
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<lessless> how to submit form if it uses javascript <input type="button" value="GetData" onclick="ambraSubmitForm();" style="padding:5px">?
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<Xylo1> Hi, how can I get a full stack trace dump of all threads of a running ruby process? I am on ruby 1.9.3
<gener1c> just do that per thread?
<Mon_Ouie> Thread#backtrace
<Mon_Ouie> And Thread.list to get all the running threads
<Xylo1> @gener1c: I dont' have an exception, I have a running process and want to see what each tread is doing.
<Xylo1> @Mon_Ouie: Nice - do you suggest to trap a system signal and then dump all the threads manually?
<gener1c> i never stack traced
<Mon_Ouie> You can do that, sure
<gener1c> what is it for usually?
<gener1c> folowwing recursions ?
<Mon_Ouie> Debugging, knowing what's going on
<gener1c> following*
<gener1c> yeah but what kind of debugging though
<Xylo1> @gener1c guess you have a server which does not respond and consumes 100% CPU. When you have a full strack trace you can see what's going on
<gener1c> ohhh
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<Xylo1> or it consumes no CPU but does not respond... in the stack trace then you could for example see that all threads are waiting for your database to respond, so there may be a database problem. When you issue two stack traces in a row you can see if the server state changes.
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<Xylo1> @Mon_Ouie: I guess the interpreter does not provide such a functionality? I know from the java world that you can send a signal to the VM and it dumps the stacktrace to stdout. No need to implement something in the code.
<i256> anybody uses tinyrb ? it a safe? no file/io ?
<Mon_Ouie> I don't know about such a feature in ruby
<Xylo1> @Mon_Ouie: I also found nothing on google, only the xray gem which exactly does this but on 1.9.3 it only shows the status of the current thread. The problem with iteration over Thread.list is that the threads will change during iteration (at least the current thread changes because you iterate) so you'll never get a consistent state. But I think it's sufficient. Thank yoy Mon_Ouie!
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<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: to study computer science?
<viran> hey, after installing a 'gem' how do i actually run it ?
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: not interested in Ghent university?
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<Mon_Ouie> My Dutch probably isn't good enough for that
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<Xylo1> @viran: A gem is more like a library, it provides you with additional functionality, so normally you don't just "run" it. What it does and how to use it depends on the gem
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: studying computer science, or will you surprise us all and choose something like greek history or architecture? ;)
<viran> Xylo1: oh, i guess i got stuff mixed up :) im trying to run shelr...
<Mon_Ouie> Engineering — so actually, I'll have some kind of architecture classes for the first few semesters
<Xylo1> @viran Then pls read the README of the gem... https://github.com/antono/shelr Installation+usage is described there
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: civil engineering?
<Mon_Ouie> Yep
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: cool
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: do you read ahead in math?
* yxhuvud prefers uncivil engineering
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<lessless> how to create a clean, not escaped, multistring text literal ?
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<lessless> data = %q! [{"name":"name","value":"asdasd","checked":false,"id":"name"} == "\n[{\"name\":\"name\",\"value\":\"asdasd\",\"checked\":false,\"id\":\"name\"}"
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<lessless> data = %q! [{"name":"name","value":"asdasd","checked":false,"id":"name"} ! == "\n[{\"name\":\"name\",\"value\":\"asdasd\",\"checked\":false,\"id\":\"name\"}"
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<Xylo1> Mon_Ouie, gener1c for your reference: http://pastie.org/3827702
<Mon_Ouie> puts "=" * n would be clearer in code
<Xylo1> @Mon_Ouie cool, thanks! any comments welcome
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: this man is a genius http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0qjK3TWZE8&feature=related what do u think? :D
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: (the one on the right)
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<c_schmitz> hi everyone
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<cloudgeek> GUI ruby for ubuntu
<cloudgeek> can suggest any link
<cloudgeek> i am using ubuntu
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<c_schmitz> I am just trying to install glTail: http://www.fudgie.org/. I am running into an issue and want to install a modified gem - how would I do that?
<cloudgeek> !GUI
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<jscoder> I installed a gem but when requiring it, Ruby says it could not be found. $ ruby -v outputs 1.9.2 and $ gem env outputs 1.8.7, so it looks like I installed the gem on a different ruby version. How do I fix that?
<atmosx> jscoder: my ruby is 1.9.3 and gem is 1.8.11, their versions are not parallel
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<jscoder> atmosx: ok. Any idea how to get this to work though? I installed it with sudo gem install gemname
<atmosx> jscoder: either you don't require it the right way, or you have some issues with your paths. You're using 'sudo' or something to install/remove gem? what os are you on?
<atmosx> try running your script using 'sudo'
<jscoder> atmosx: Linux Ubuntu 11.10. I'm requiring it like it said in the documentation
<jscoder> I already tried that
<jscoder> Same result
<jscoder> `require 'rubygems' require 'closure-compiler'`
<jscoder> With a new file :)
<atmosx> you don't need require 'rubygems' under 1.9.2
<atmosx> 1.9.x
<atmosx> remove that
<atmosx> what's your error?
<jscoder> <internal:lib/rubygems/custom_require>:29:in `require': no such file to load -- closure-compiler (LoadError) from <internal:lib/rubygems/custom_require>:29:in `require' from /usr/local/bin/minify:16:in `<main>'
<banisterfiend> anyone here familiar with smalltalk?
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<jscoder> Same result when removing the require 'rubygems'
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<jscoder> atmosx: I installed it with `$ sudo gem install closure-compiler` like it said in the readme: https://github.com/documentcloud/closure-compiler
<atmosx> jscoder: yes, but for some reason your ruby cannot find the $GEM_PATH
<atmosx> jscoder: can you paste the first lines of your script?
<atmosx> where you load staff?
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<jscoder> `#!/usr/bin/env ruby require 'closure-compiler'`
<atmosx> and you're ruby is at /usr/bin/ruby ?
<jscoder> Yep
<jscoder> It works perfectly if I remove the require
<atmosx> if you try to require another gem?
<atmosx> sudo gem install os and then try to require -> require 'os'
<jscoder> Where can I find a list of the gems I installed? I'm pretty sure this is the first gem I installed :3
<atmosx> it's a gem for dealing with operating system functions.
<atmosx> gem list
<atmosx> will return a list of installed gem's. Also try to see of sudo gem list gives you a different result
<jscoder> Hm. Requiring other gems seems to work just fine
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<jscoder> atmosx: I searched in my terminal history and I installed the other gems the same way. So, is that a bug in that gem?
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<atmosx> jscoder: might be. As a last resort though, I'd say try RVM
<atmosx> which handles all these little issues with ruby gems and versions http://beginrescueend.com/
<atmosx> I use this on linux
<atmosx> because ruby 1.9.x on linux is still tricky for many parts of the system
<atmosx> so they have 1.8 by default etc
<jscoder> atmosx: Alright, thanks :) I'll take a look at it later
<atmosx> okay, cya
<atmosx> jscoder: another good idea, would be contacting the gem author
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<atmosx> or if this gem has a google-group or something, post the error there.
<jscoder> atmosx: I'll open an issue on the github repo later if it doesn't work with RVM
<banisterfiend> anyone here familiar with smalltalk?
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<shiroginne> дня всем
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<Mattias> I'm trying to do gem install bdb, but I get this error: http://pastebin.com/TQmaJUMp I have berkeley db 5.3.15 installed Anyone knows what could be wrong? I need this for another gem -.-
<Mattias> or is the gem just outdated? O.o
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<Mattias> nvm, seems there was a package ruby-bdb in aur, this version works fine.
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<jscoder> atmosx: Still there? I installed rvm, what should I do now? :)
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<polishguy94> Does thin webserver reacts to changes in code automatically or after restart?
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<ctp> Hi folks. I have an array of hashes and want to get the first element of the sorted array but with an additional constraint: it should be :locked => false
<ctp> ([{:host=>"10.11.12.13", :er_ratio=>0.0, :locked=>true}, {:host=>"20.21.22.23", :er_ratio=>0.15, :locked=>false}, {:host=>"30.31.32.33",:er_ratio=>0.08, :locked=>true}, {:host=>"40.41.42.43", :er_ratio=>0.02, :locked=>false}].sort_by { |p| p[:er_ratio] }).first
<ctp> returns me the one with the lowest er_ratio but how to tell ruby to retrieve such one but with :locked => false additionally?
<ctp> so {:host=>"40.41.42.43", :er_ratio=>0.02, :locked=>false} in the case above
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<apeiros_> ctp: ri Array#find
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<apeiros_> or even Enumerable#find, but I think Array implements its own.
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<polishguy94> How about an if statement?
<ctp> apeiros_: you mean find_index? http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-1.9.3/Array.html
<apeiros_> ctp: no, I mean find
<apeiros_> as said, it may be in Enumerable
<apeiros_> alternatively you could use min_by and have locked ones return Float::INFINITY instead of the ratio
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<ctp> ah, ok
<apeiros_> if you only sort to get the first unlocked one, then I'd use that approach instead. better performance.
<ctp> good point
<apeiros_> (sort is O(nlogn), min is O(n))
<ctp> ok, cool
<ctp> thx
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<ctp> apeiros_: argh, i need the er_ratio as value for statistics purposes
<apeiros_> ctp: and? you get the whole hash back…
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<kallisti> banisterfiend: hello
<ctp> "and have locked ones return Float::INFINITY instead of the ratio" -> i need :er_ratio = realvalue instead of :er_ratio = Float::INFINITY That;s what you meant, right?
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<apeiros_> ctp: you should *probably* read the docs of min_by
<ctp> ok, i'll do :)
<apeiros_> min_by er_ratio, means you return the er_ratio from the block. that does NOT mean that min_by returns only the er_ratio
<agilobable> tadzik: to znaczy ze coś dobrze schował :D
<agilobable> sry wrong tab.
<apeiros_> and for locked ones, you return Float::INFINITY instead of the er_ratio, so min_by will not consider them as the minimum
<ctp> ah, ok. i understand
<apeiros_> gotta go
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<kallisti> so I push arrays onto an array like this
<kallisti> arr << [a,b]
<kallisti> later on
<kallisti> shouldn't this work?
<kallisti> a, b = arr.pop
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<niklasb> kallisti: yes, it should
<shevy> are you still not using irb man :(
<shevy> array = []; array << [1,2] # => [[1, 2]]
<kallisti> shevy: I am
<kallisti> I'm debugging a program
<shevy> you'll have an array in an array if you append an array
<kallisti> the problem is unrelated to what I thought it was.
<kallisti> I was just double checking that some other craziness wasn't happening
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<shevy> I would be wary when you do operations like pop
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<shevy> I've seen people use things like foo.chomp!.map {} and then be confused why things did not work
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<kallisti> shevy: well since I'm writing a stack machine.. I'm not. :P
* kallisti is only a noob at Ruby, not programming. :P
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<kallisti> so if you pass a string as the first argument of gsub, it's not treated as regex right?
<kallisti> it seems to be doing strange things with hyphens
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<ctp> Howdy. Anyone here can take a look at this simple Ruby snippet: https://gist.github.com/2438158 ? How to get this array sorted?
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<Tasser> ctp, consider using structs
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<Tasser> ctp, and switch the order of ratio/request
<Tasser> might give you the behaviour you want
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<ctp> Tasser: hm, you mean [{:host=>"10.11.12.13", :requests=>10, :er_ratio=>0.0}, {:host=>"20.21.22.23", :requests=>20, :er_ratio=>0.15}, {:host=>"50.51.52.53", :requests=>140, :er_ratio=>0.02}, {:host=>"30.31.32.33", :requests=>220 ,:er_ratio=>0.08}, {:host=>"40.41.42.43", :requests=>143, :er_ratio=>0.02}].sort_by {|p| [p[:requests], p[:er_ratio]]} ?
<ctp> that returns me
<ctp> => [{:host=>"10.11.12.13", :requests=>10, :er_ratio=>0.0}, {:host=>"20.21.22.23", :requests=>20, :er_ratio=>0.15}, {:host=>"50.51.52.53", :requests=>140, :er_ratio=>0.02}, {:host=>"40.41.42.43", :requests=>143, :er_ratio=>0.02}, {:host=>"30.31.32.33", :requests=>220, :er_ratio=>0.08}]
<ctp> but the ratio is the most important for me
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<ctp> what I am looking for is sorted by er_ratio and in cases where er_ratio is the same additionally sorted by requests in reverse order
<ctp> so the higher request rate should appear before the lower in cases where er_ratio is same
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<ctp> and all as performant as possible :)
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<nooga> hi
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<nooga> i'm trying to roll my own gem for use with rails and have a problem with finding paths to the gem's own files (like templates or precalculated data)
<polishguy94> What tool to AJAXify post requests in sinatra?
<nooga> how should I refer to the gem's files?
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<elspeth> am i going blind, or does the vim-ruby gem not exist anymore?
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<elspeth> hokay
<elspeth> so ... why is gem install vim-ruby not working?
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<elspeth> i get: ERROR: could not find gem vim-ruby locally or in a repository
<Mon_Ouie> You can download it from the page I linked
<eph3meral> elspeth, what is vim-ruby supposed to do?
<elspeth> eph3meral: aiui, it makes vim more ruby-friendly. bundles together a bunch of scripts which do things like autocomplete and whatnot.
<ca_bud> Got a complex program here. I need to convert with ruby a url into a 4 characters. what is the best method for this?
<Mon_Ouie> Although the reason the gem isn't there may just be the name was changed or something similar
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<eph3meral> hmm, I write ruby all day, I have no problems with the default ruby
<elspeth> Mon_Ouie: i actually did a search for vim both using gem and on the site and it didn't come up, which is ... odd.
<eph3meral> elspeth, vim isn't supposed to be user friendly :P
<elspeth> eph3meral: eh, i find it user-friendly enough, although that says more about me than about vim, perhaps.
<eph3meral> my only gripe is that ruby syntax hiliting borks when you use marker folds
<eph3meral> really pretty annoying, and doesn't quite make sense to me
<ca_bud> e.g. convert http/domain.com/something/anotherthing/page.html to "34fd" or something similar. is there a text compression or checksum thing that ruby has that I can use?
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<elspeth> i'm currently interested in all this because i'm getting back into ruby/rails dev after a mutli-year lapse
<eph3meral> elspeth, meh, I say just use vim as it stands... I don't find myself wanting for much
<eph3meral> elspeth, it sounds like you'd be more at home with an IDE
<eph3meral> most people who want an IDE just don't know how to make good use of a powerful text editor :P
<eph3meral> elspeth, I mean, not exactly "as it stands" but... all you really need is NERDTree and Command-T as far as plugins and you'll be fine
<eph3meral> elspeth, maybe yankring and matchit, but none of those are ruby specific... well, except that Command-T is written in ruby :)
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<elspeth> i just want decent autocomplete, really.
<eph3meral> elspeth, which vim already has
<eph3meral> elspeth, no need for plugins
<elspeth> eh, it's so-so for rails, or has been in the past
<eph3meral> o.0
<eph3meral> elspeth, you're not even in #vim btw
<elspeth> i know.
<eph3meral> seems a far better forum than this
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* elspeth shrug; i originally was asking about a rubygem, so.
<eph3meral> lol, a vim rubygem
<eph3meral> which is just, odd, to say the least
<eph3meral> I can see why it was removed
<elspeth> it happens to be one mentioned in a lot of places.
<eph3meral> the theory that many people can't be wrong is a bad one
<elspeth> well, many people can have something i want to look at, even if it turns out that i point and giggle at the lemmings.
<eph3meral> elspeth, I'm trying to save you the time of looking at something that's not worth the time :P
<eph3meral> but anyway, seek as you will
<eph3meral> elspeth, you should /join #vim
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<elspeth> yes, probably.
<elspeth> usually i just ask my husband if i've got a q, but he's snoring atm
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<shevy> hold his nose!!!
<elspeth> nah. that doesn't work.
<kallisti> how do I pass a method as a block?
<kallisti> instead of: arr.each {|x| puts x}
<kallisti> I want something like arr.each puts
<eph3meral> kalleth, putme = lambda { |x| puts x }; arr.map(&putme)
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<agilobable> kallisti: arr.pop ?
<kallisti> eph3meral: that kind of defeats the purpose
<shevy> %w( a b c ).map(&:capitalize) # => ["A", "B", "C"]
<kallisti> shevy: Ruby 1.9 yes?
<shevy> works on 1.8.x too
<eph3meral> i don't believe you can do puts like that
<eph3meral> other methods, sure
<eph3meral> but not puts, afaik
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<kallisti> what's different about puts?
<shevy> yeah, not sure it works with puts. puts invokes #to_s or? perhaps you have to pass to_s
<lolmaus> How do i unit-test private methods?
<agilobable> shevy: it looks so perl :P
<shevy> agilobable yeah it is ugly
<shevy> I find lambda ugly too though :P
<eph3meral> lolmaus, you don't, you unit test the public ones that use them
<kallisti> the point is to avoid lambdas and blocks
<eph3meral> shevy, yeah we know you have a difficult time reading ruby code
<kallisti> and just pass the method directly
<shevy> lol
<shevy> eph3meral the shit you write and call "ruby code" indeed :)
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<lolmaus> eph3meral, it kinda ruins my understanding of TDD
<eph3meral> shevy, yes we know you have a hard time understanding ruby code
<shevy> eph3meral you should learn ruby properly one day
<shevy> not use eval all the time for one
<shevy> that's your take home message for today
<kallisti> arr.each(&:puts) # why wouldn't this work?
<eph3meral> shevy, go drink your juice box and play with your barbies
<eph3meral> kalleth, 1.puts doesn't work
<eph3meral> that's why
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<eph3meral> kallisti,
<shevy> eph3meral only if you stop using ruby :)
<eph3meral> yep, like I thought... time for /ignore
<shevy> no please
<shevy> don't ignore me :(
<rippa> kallisti: arr.each(&method(:puts))
<kallisti> meh...
<kallisti> so much extra typing to do the "simpler" case.
<eph3meral> kalleth, not if you use a lambda
<shevy> lol
<eph3meral> &putme is about as much typing as &:puts
<shevy> it is kallisti not kalleth
<kallisti> that's not the point
<kallisti> of course I can just define lambdas off to the side
<Mon_Ouie> Why so much hate for blocks?
<lolmaus> eph3meral, i've googled up a quick solution: myobject.send(:method_name, args)
<kallisti> I can just define methods off to the side
<kallisti> I can just use blocks.
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<Mon_Ouie> ary.each { |o| puts o } is just fine
<kallisti> the point is to avoid blocks, and pass an existing named method
<kallisti> yeah that's fine
<Mon_Ouie> (Although in that example puts ary is shorter)
<kallisti> it's just... not how I would have it. :P
<eph3meral> kallisti, which, essentially you have... if you use a lambda
<eph3meral> an existing named method exists after you define it with a lambda
<kallisti> eph3meral: I don't think you understand what I mean.
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<eph3meral> kallisti, no i understand perfectly, i just think you're being obtuse like shevy
<kallisti> think what you like.
<eph3meral> if you're gonna reuse that block numerous times anyway then it's more DRY
<TTilus> uhh, whats going on here?
<kallisti> I'm not.
<eph3meral> kalleth, then a block is more appropriate, not everything in code will be perfect and beautiful
<shevy> it is a known fact that eph3meral is not only clueless when it comes to ruby but also he is an idiot
<eph3meral> sometimes you have to know how to just deal with it and move on
<shevy> and he fails at tab completion too
<kallisti> eph3meral: yeah that's fine.
<kallisti> I was just hoping for a better way
<eph3meral> kalleth, not for puts
<eph3meral> IMO you shouldn't be using puts anyway
<shevy> please someone kill the eph3meral troll
<eph3meral> kalleth, puts arr.join("\n") or similar would be more "beautiful"
<shevy> ...
<kallisti> in Haskell for example: (\x -> f x), which is a lambda, is completely and utterly equivalent to f in all situations, everywhere.
<eph3meral> kalleth, if you're literally ONLY using puts, then there are more elegant ways to do that anyway without even using a loop in the first place
<eph3meral> i know some haskell
<kallisti> eph3meral: well it's actually a File not an Array
<eph3meral> this isn't #haskell
<kallisti> true story.
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<eph3meral> kalleth, arr = f.lines; puts arr.join("\n")
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<kallisti> you said "I shouldn't be using puts"
<kallisti> how is that not using puts?
<eph3meral> you shouldn't
<TTilus> puts arr
<TTilus> not?
<shevy> you are wasting your time with him
<shevy> eph3meral will always be a troll
<Mon_Ouie> Except f.lines doesn't return an Array
<eph3meral> i'm trying to be accomodating of your your idiocy, perhaps I should just keep being a total ass?
<shevy> see?
<eph3meral> there is one that'll return the lines as an array
<eph3meral> forget which one
<shevy> that's the only thing he can do
<TTilus> shevy: everybody needs to find it out by themselves
<kallisti> eph3meral: I haven't been disrespectful this entire conversation. But I see there's no point in continuing
<shevy> yeah TTilus :(
<kallisti> good day.
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<TTilus> shevy: ...trollnes i mean
<Mon_Ouie> It returns an Enumerator (which happens to be the similar to Haskell's lazy lists, actually)
<TTilus> shevy: at least i _want_ to find it out by myself
<Mon_Ouie> There's IO#readlines
<eph3meral> yeah readlines I believe is what I was thinking of
<eph3meral> TTilus, possibly puts arr.inspect
<shevy> ...
<eph3meral> of course, we really have no idea what he is even trying to do
<TTilus> eph3meral: ?
<shevy> I think he randomly chains together some methods :)
<eph3meral> apparently he just wants to read a file and dump it on STDOUT
<eph3meral> how useful
<shevy> god eph3meral you are so dumb
<TTilus> eph3meral: but it _is_ ;)
<eph3meral> TTilus, i only suggested .join("\n") cuz I have no idea what kind of formatting he wants, it would seem that a naturally inquisitive and minorly intelligent person might be able to grok some other type of line delimiter for themselves
<eph3meral> was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt
<TTilus> eph3meral: if it would not be, why is cat ubiquitous? =D
<eph3meral> TTilus, indeed :)
<eph3meral> the only problem being... cat is ubiquitous
<eph3meral> actually, does cmd.exe have cat?
<TTilus> eph3meral: puts arr is equivalent to puts arr.join("\n")
<eph3meral> well, that's not quite the right phrasing
<eph3meral> TTilus, yes I'm aware, see my above comment about trying to give him the benefit of the doubt
<TTilus> ok
<Mon_Ouie> Actually, it's not really
<Mon_Ouie> ary.join("\n") will create a string with two new-lines in a row in this case
<TTilus> Mon_Ouie: ok, _essentially_ the me same
<TTilus> s/me //
<Mon_Ouie> It does mean ary.join("\n") isn't the content of the file
<TTilus> thats true
<TTilus> with io.readlines.join("\n") aint idempotent
<TTilus> then something totally different
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<TTilus> ive got this graphical dsl, which is used to draw dull stuff like business processes, which are then used to generate ruby code
<TTilus> on top of that we sometimes need to resort to plain old programming
<TTilus> currently we just manyally reopen and monkey-patch classes
<TTilus> any ideas how to do that differently?
<TTilus> it works fine as it is
<TTilus> the only downside is that require 'module_name/class_name' convention does not work
<TTilus> because there are several files per class on loadpath and we (of course) need them all, not just the first of them
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<iboB> this may be windows specific but i have no other os to test it: `some commands` works fine when the commands print to stdout, but when they print to stderr it returns nothing and instead i see the stderr output in my console
<iboB> is this normal, and if yes, how can i catch stderr, too?
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<iboB> nevermind... i eventyally found out
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<russianmob> Data Mapper doesn't return false in my if statements with Class.create(params) when the data is not valid
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<iboB> so system returns the process return number and `` gets me the stdoutput. Can I have both?
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<Mon_Ouie> You can use $? to get the status code
<shadoi> iboB: you probably want something more like popen3 and/or shell
<shadoi> both in stdlib
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<benDos> I'm buiilding ruby for the first time, after a bunch of cc calls it seems to have stopped honoring the -j 32 I passed make
<benDos> Seems to be using only one thread to compile now
<benDos> Is that a problem with something I should have passed ./configure?
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<Mon_Ouie> Could just be related to dependencies making it impossible to go on until some task is completed
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<benDos> Mon_Ouie, yeah but it doesn't fall back to a single thread until it starts executing ruby
<benDos> all the compiling directly invoked by make does the right thing
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<Mon_Ouie> Well, -j 32 means make will execute 32 tasks at the same time. If one of those tasks call gcc more than once, it won't parallelize it
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<benDos> Yeah.. hmm alright thanks anyway
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<iboB> shadoi, actually i wanted $?.exitstatus
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<agilobable> how do i make a range with step without using loops or step method like => (1..100).step(2) ?
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<apeiros_> agilobable: why the restriction?
<apeiros_> why not use step?
<agilobable> i wanted to write it in one line
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<agilobable> step(){|x| puts x} is 3lines at least
<apeiros_> and you can't write it in 1 line with step???
<apeiros_> errr… you just wrote your alleged 3 lines in one line
<agilobable> i can but it looks perlish
<apeiros_> oh my
<DefV> but.. why
<apeiros_> I don't think I can help with that. I don't think I even want to.
<DefV> agilobable: show me what you want to do in another language in 1 line then :-)
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<apeiros_> DefV: pythons list comprehensions probably don't look perlish…
<agilobable> DefV: range(min, max, step) < python
<apeiros_> agilobable: that doesn't do anything more than (min..max).step(step) either.
<apeiros_> so, um, bullshit?
<agilobable> it does a single array with numbers
<apeiros_> (min..max).step(step).to_a
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<agilobable> apeiros_: cheers! :)
<DefV> but that's worse!
<agilobable> accutaly it's quite good ;)
<apeiros_> also see Array.new (needs elementary school math knowledge, though!!!)
<Mon_Ouie> The Python REPL doesn't seem to think it's an array
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<DefV> the beauty of a range is that it doesn't instantiate every damn item
<Mon_Ouie> type(range(0, 10, 2)) is <class 'range'>, not list
<DefV> if you do .step(2) on it it creates an iterator ready to iterate
<DefV> if you do .to_a it actually takes all possible values and stores them in memory for your enjoyment
<shevy> The Python REPL must die
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<shevy> rather than allow me to exit it it tells me to append () !!!
<DefV> (1..999999999999).step(2) = cheap, (1..999999999999).step(2).to_a = still running on my machine
<apeiros_> DefV: that just proves that ruby is slow!!!!!!!11elf
<DefV> troll :-p
<apeiros_> :)
<apeiros_> was it that obvious?
<chris_mh> hey. I'm attempting to get ruby and python to interact nicely (I'm writing the python end), and I'd like to use some sort of IPC between them. I'm not familiar with ruby, but I'd like to do something that the guy writing the ruby end will not have to jump through hoops to use; any suggestions on a kind of IPC that will work nicely?
<apeiros_> chris_mh: I think json and yaml are both implemented on both platforms
<apeiros_> anything IO is relatively simple in ruby, so that part shouldn't be difficult.
<chris_mh> is json built-in in ruby?
<apeiros_> yes
<DefV> yes?
<apeiros_> yes. sometime in 1.9's lifecycle it became stdlib
<chris_mh> hm, okay. I wondered because I google "json in ruby" and it brought up an external lib
<chris_mh> googled*
<apeiros_> chris_mh: well, installing a gem isn't considered a hoop in ruby, I'd say.
<apeiros_> but as said, in 1.9, it's part of stdlib. not sure whether already in 1.9.2, or only as of 1.9.3
<chris_mh> that's good to know. I'm always cautious of adding dependencies when writing code for other people
<apeiros_> yaml has been part of stdlib for a longer time, though. it also supports a far wider range of basic datatypes
<apeiros_> dates for examples. or integer. or binary data.
<chris_mh> oh, hm, okay.
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<chris_mh> yaml isn't shipped with python yet, but I do like it quite a bit. seems a bit of an odd fit for IPC, though
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<apeiros_> well, there are other serialization formats
<apeiros_> just pick one that exists as a mature lib for python and ruby.
<chris_mh> json seems a good choice, I'll run it by him first. thanks!
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<agilobable> 0.step(100, 2).to_a # => thats looks like good ruby code ;)
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<apeiros_> depending on how it is used, it looks like inefficient ruby code
<apeiros_> but DefV already explained that
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<pygmael> is there a philosophical consensus on using classes for namespacing?
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<burgestrand> pygmael: yes, do it, especially in libraries
<pygmael> so like if I've got a User class, having a User::Picture class or something or something is not bad business?
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<shevy> something or something
<shevy> pygmael one reason people often use a class for namespace is because they can then call #new
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<shevy> class Foo; class Bar ... Foo.new
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<pygmael> yeah
<pygmael> seems like the alternative
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<pygmael> would be to make User a module and make User::Base the class instead
<pygmael> or something :)
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<pygmael> since namespacing is typically done with Modules, I thought there might be some gotchas if you do it with classes instead. Only one I can think of is if that someone else tries to reopen it as a module there will be a conflict
<garyDemilo> Are symbols like :example useful for anything besides being an immutable string holder?
<shevy> yeah pygmael but I think that is a flaw in the design of ruby
<shevy> I don't think the user need to know that you extend a module or a class
<shevy> extend Name
<shevy> should suffice
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<shevy> garyDemilo, in hashes they may be more efficient than string objects, as keys
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<garyDemilo> shevy: so that's it? a more efficient string?
<shevy> it is not a string
<garyDemilo> right, but that's it's best use?
<garyDemilo> *its
<shevy> I suppose so
<shevy> they dont seem that useful altogether
<pygmael> shevy I thought that smelled weird, thanks for the confirmation
<garyDemilo> shevy: hm. Ok, thanks for the info.
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<icy`> hi, i'm having trouble substituting in a "\" (backslash) . trying to convert ' into \' . str.gsub("'","\'") fails, as does more than one backslash
<alindeman> icy`: What do you mean by fails?
<icy`> in irb
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<icy`> str = "Director's"
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<alindeman> icy`: ?
<icy`> alindeman, ?
<alindeman> I still don't understand what you mean
<icy`> turn the string into "Director\'s"
<alindeman> Ah, I get it know. Unfortunately \` means something special to gsub
<alindeman> You need do something like str.gsub("'", "\\\\'")
<icy`> ah, ok, ty =)
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<icy`> i ended up changing it to '' , as i think that's another way to escape ' for my purposes
<shadoi> ichilton: \' is a special variable to anything involving regexes, it means "post-match"
<icy`> correction: i gsub'd to \\\\' in one place, and '' in another
<shadoi> icy`: ^^
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<icy`> =)