00:49 <nicksydney> wpwrak: it might sell if you sell it on ebay

00:49 <nicksydney> or perhaps aliexpress :)

01:40 <nicksydney> wohoo!! the TPS61040 sample has arrived....now need to etch the board

01:40 <nicksydney> damn this thing are tiny

03:13 <nicksydney> wpwrak: what you think about this http://www.chronovu.com/buy-now/shop/ ... it's worth the money for beginner like myself ?

15:27 <sb0> first kicad crash!

15:31 <wpwrak> congratulations ! :)

15:31 <wpwrak> what are you actually designing ?

15:33 <wpwrak> i find that kicad sometimes hangs (or at least it used to some time ago) when i have multiple instances running. so it's a good idea to save often. also had some issues when working with zones, but i haven't experienced these lately

15:34 <wpwrak> ah, and fped also has a yet unsolved problem that seems to be related to deletions. so safe often there, too :) (fped versions the files for you, so you don't have to worry about saving things you may later regret)

15:37 <wpwrak> pcercuei: developing a taste for german beer ? :)

15:38 <pcercuei> slowly but surely :)

15:41 <wpwrak> very good. soon you'll be ready to appreciate the good stuff, austrian beer ;-)

17:07 <sb0> wpwrak, just simple carrier boards for mixxeo buttons/leds/oled

17:08 <sb0> oh, and of course, when you press R while placing a component, it's obvious that you want to rotate the component that happens to be under the cursor, not the one that you are currently moving

17:08 <sb0> open source UX usually sucks, but this one sets new records

17:21 <sb0> "219.4000000000000057"

17:21 <sb0> qcad wtf

17:21 <whitequark> floating point wtf, rather

17:21 <whitequark> but why doesn't it round?..

17:23 <sb0> why didn't the qcad developers use a better number representation in the first place

17:24 <sb0> performance doesn't matter much here; using (slow) rational arithmetic would be fine

17:28 <whitequark> yeah, usually you use fixed point

17:28 <whitequark> with enough precision to represent metric/imperial well

17:29 <sb0> oh, I see. in C++, you write std::ratio_multiply<a,b>, not a*b

17:31 <whitequark> hm?

17:31 <sb0> I was wondering if C++ had support for rational numbers, and it seems to be done in a horrible way

17:31 <whitequark> I'm not sure what is the point of using rationals anyway

17:32 <sb0> with proper language support, they are the easiest choice

17:32 <whitequark> not necessarily most correct, and anyway implementing fixed-point is not hard

17:32 <sb0> not necessarily most correct?

17:32 <whitequark> s,most correct,best,.

17:33 <sb0> well, they are slower than fixed point for sure, but other than that?

17:33 <whitequark> it's not even fixed-point actually, you just represent everything in µm and convert it to the user's choice of unit

17:33 <whitequark> sb0: unless you back rationals with bigints, they're not infinitely precise

17:33 <sb0> yeah sure

17:47 <sb0> oh, another thing... any missing dot in a kicad schematic will result in a silent no-connection

17:47 <sb0> I wonder how much this has cost in PCB respins already

17:59 <whitequark> same in Eagle I think

20:28 <wpwrak> sb0: that's why it's important to review schematics :) missed dots tend to be a very minor problem. can't even remember having any issues with them

20:29 <wpwrak> oh, but you should follow the rule of never making connected crosses

20:29 <wpwrak> only T-connections, never +. a + always means "not connected".

20:30 <wpwrak> (that's a rule for the designer to follow, not something kicad would need. though it may be nice if it could enforce it)

20:32 <wpwrak> in the old milkymist days, we compiled a set of style guidelines: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Rules_on_Editing_Schematics

20:33 <wpwrak> alas, the first example (about POWER) shows a "bad" junction :(

22:50 <nicksydney> wpwrak: normally for diode (normal or schottky) do you use the DO-214AA footprint from the qi library in kicad ?

22:51 <wpwrak> i try to use diodes in SOT-xx3 packages, with no ambiguity in orientation

22:58 <nicksydney> which footprint you recommend to use if not using SOT diode package ?

22:59 <wpwrak> that would depend on the diode you choose to use ;-)

23:00 <nicksydney> schottky diode like this one http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MB/MBR0530.pdf

23:02 <wpwrak> well, find the manufacturer's recommended footprint drawing and see if anything in http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/kicad-libs-modules.pdf

23:02 <wpwrak> matches

23:03 <wpwrak> but it doesn't look like any footprint i remember us having. so you may have to draw your own

23:03 <wpwrak> (or modify an existing one. tables in fped are great for that :)

23:04 <nicksydney> ok thanks

23:05 <nicksydney> what about just the normal generic SMD diode ?

23:05 <nicksydney> like this data:image/jpeg;base64,

23:05 <nicksydney> ABEQIxIUH/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/AJxAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANTpfpHTw8lGSlKT3RtqXF3ZsMXiVThKctkVcjLHYt1akqkvvP03WM2jsv+NqGVtKd0naLS1u2pXTdr8TlP+auIpXeIwcMq3wq21d0r3PgkziumOkszVKL5y8Nn6mdqpTwfXJgpfUhVp/uxkvOLv6G8wnT/R9T5cVTXKTcH/OkecsxfCdtZrUemMH0nwlX6eJoyfBVI38m7myUr7Dyp2jPswemq9J3pVakP2Zyj7Muj1ADz7gus/SNP/yHNcJxhL1av6nQ4Drrrq3bUKU1vcXKD9cyGiYQcRgOt7AVLZ3UpPfmhdLxg2b7B9MsDV+niqTfBzUX5Ssxo3ILKdVSV4tNcU7rzReUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKSeoDkem

23:05 <nicksydney> /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBhISEBQUEBIVFBUSFRYXFBIYFRUXFRQUFBQVFBQUFBQXHCYgFxojGRQUHy8gIygpLCwsFR4xNTAqNSYrLCkBCQoKDgwOFA8PFCkYFBgpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSwpKSkpLCwsLCkpLCksKSwsKSkpKSkpKSkpKf/AABEIANIA8AMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAcAAEAAQUBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAABwECAwUGCAT/xABBEAACAQICBggDBQYEBwAAAAAAAQIDEQQSBSExQVFhBgcTcYGRobEiMjMUQlLB0XKCkqLh8CNDYsIWFyQlRGPx/8QAFwEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECA//EABoRAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAA

23:05 <nicksydney> ekZStSgm4r52k2r/AIbrgvc5HOt79T4emnTKvhtIdnRlCMckL5o3+KScm9l9rermabFdYWNd7wpTS22Ut613Sk+By21W80npCMIOV9ib8P71Eb1q7qTlN/eZs9LdI3XpZHRVNuSlKStrSTslqVlrvvvq4GqiWRFS9ssiipoCpQAVEpbvMpexbEDJC7aS2vYjuNHaFhCmlKEZSa+Jyim7vba61cNRoeiuj81TtGtUNnOX9NvkdkZqvip6IhBp03Om7/cqSiSF0f6bRnOnQqxanJWjO7ak0tsuDdues4erUtt2G76D4DNN15K13lpp7lfW/byJKJKAB1QAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMeJdoS/ZfsZCko3VnsYHnnp1Z6RxLau45FF31r4Uv6+BzNubXqSf1t6Eo4eFOVNfHXqSlJtRcvh

23:05 <wpwrak> i'm afraid there is no such thing

23:05 <nicksydney> jrtO2a15rVexGJzkwWzbe2V+++7vKQpNu2pc7/AKFwsaB0Xuafj+pa4NbUyoTa2MC0Mydo99n4IKa4AYZvd5i5XL3ef6lGB1OjtNUaUIU82xfE8rs5PW9a77eBvsFpCnV1Umpv8Mdb8tpGNXDpvV/UYbSlbDzvRqSg1vT3mbFSjVwdSpOnTytdq9ri0sq2tX27H5Ei6Lw8YdnCK1RcUlyRyfQzFyrYSjXrSc6s+0vJvdGeVJLYvA7fQlLNee5ao9+9/kSFbgAHVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARf12YCTjh6uZZIuUMuu+aSUr91oWIldJk6db2HzaOv8Agq0355of7iDmzNGNwfAtMykXZvHvIPnBnduC9iihHfdeoGEGf7OrXUlqex3T7x9jnlzJXSdrpr22gYLFMhknTa2prvLQ

23:05 <nicksydney> FKPxLfr2Gvr0HmirfNrXNf2jZ09q70bjRGj1WqSzRWSK2c9yT4WuKqQ+huH/AO34WMVdvOl+9UkSThqChBRW5efFnL9BdHpUYySahTzRp3SV23eTSirJK7SS5nWjmFAAbQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGk6aaIlicDXpU1ecopxXGUJRmlfnlt4kCY7o7iqP1cPVhbe6ckv4rWPSwJYPLGUWPTOM0Hh6v1aFKd/xQi35tXNFjOrDR1T/ACMj4wnOPpdr0JggJgmDHdSlB/RxFSHKUYzXplZocZ1MYuN+yq0anJuUH5NNeowR6i650eN6vNIUvmw05LjDLP0g2/Q0mK0dVpv/ABac4P8A1RlH3RBhVR8Q53vezvyLQgKxSvs9Tu+jWiMyp0qe2o023uurtvuXscNCN2Tn1f6Hy0+2kt

23:05 <nicksydney> cllhyitTfi1bw5jNHVYPCxp04wgrRgkl3L8zMAbAAAAAAAAAAAAUbK3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWLZQTVmrrg9a8i4AajG9EMFV+phaTb3qCi/wCKNmaPGdU2An8salL9mo2vKeY7MEwRuupimppxxMsqabi6azW5STSv4EiUKEYRUYq0YpJLgkrJGQDAABQAAAAAAAAANJ0v6SwwWGlVlZy+WnD8VRrUu5bXyQHFdbvTHIvsdKWt2lWa3LbGn47XytxIzwXSPE0fpV6sOUZyS8r2Pjx+NnVqSqVJOUpycpSe1tu7Z8zZgdpgetjSFO16saiW6cIv1Vn6nQ4Hrwn/AJ2GjLnCbj6SUvcilBSKJ3wPXFgZ/UVWk+cVJecG36HQYHprga308VSvwcsj8p2PNSkV7QaPVlOqpK8WmuKd

23:05 <nicksydney> 15ovPLOF0rVpu9OpOD4xlKPszf4HrM0hS2YiUlwmoz9ZK/qXR6HBDOB67cQrdtRpT5rNB+7XodDgOurCy+rRq0+ayzX5P0GiRQc3gesTR9W2XExi3umpQ9ZJL1N7hsdTqK9OpCa4xkpL0Y0ZwAUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABbUqKKbbSSTbb2JLW2zz31g9LXjcS3F/wCFTvGkuK3za4yav3JLcd11vdMOzh9koy+KavWa+7B61DvltfLvIalIzQuUYKAC4sKgGxcoXU4XaS2sAovgUTNliJqEFFd3fxZgw9FKN3teqKfuTVx8twpH1SUE7Si+9K3/ANLexpvZK3eNMYFMy0sXKLvGTT4ptPzRc8A90kzBVpOLs9o+I6HA9PMfStkxVWy3SlnXlO50ejuuTGxaVSNKr3xcZecWl6

23:05 <nicksydney> EdJm56PaPzyzyXwx2c5AehOjem/teHVXJkd2pRvezVtj4WaNqcn1c1P+nqLhU94R/Q6w1PAABQAAAAAAAAAAA03SvpHDBYaVaet7KcPxzfyx7t75Jm5IY659KZsXCltVKmna9rSqO7/lUCUR9pHHzrVZ1Kks05ycpPi3tPluXyS4teT9inZ8JR87e5BjYL3Slw/P2MYFWxcoLAVR92Dio2b2y1LkuJ8BfCq1sZKPocXOpZ6vySM2NrJWSWu1u5HzRx0t9n4FftEXth5ExRY6W/WXxxMXtgn3FmWm97XeZaVK18sk787PwYuCyeTXqceG29/E+W5nxNZvU/uvbe78zAixGbC0HOSjHa2dthMOqcVFbF68Wano9gMsc8tstnJG4lKyJaO/6tauqvHnB+edP2R25E3Vfpyc8bOlCK

23:05 <nicksydney> dNweaWu6cNlvF2JZNc+AADQAAAAAAAAAACknqPOPTrSKr6QxFRO6dRqL3OMEoRa8I38Sb+luLlGm0taUHKS/Elti+VkzzviquaUnxbfm7mbfowNFGi4oBbl/tF2d73fvswAKat8V4XRa4rmvJl5SwFOzX4l43RTsXu19zTLmimUoslFrbqKGbO+L9/cZuKi/C3sBhBlaXBruf6lvZrj5r9ALD7tFYLtJ6/lWt/ofNGg29Vn3NHQ4WCo0+e19/Ag+6pjoR1Gt0ppdOOWm9b1b72trNVpHGZmWRhKEo3klJq7uvlT1r0s/EyqWOpzCxhnd45smvWtspJ2XcokpkA6MpzUVd3lr27Ipa2+5Jtky9EcRUnhKfbXc4rK29rtsb52avzNc1G5ABoAAAAAAAAAABzHTFXjNXtejLXw1S1

23:05 <nicksydney> nn+tS1uzut24nnppUtmXGjL/eQJfUu5exz/VWOm+BZYypl8a8knFPU9240j5xczxcd8b92otyRfHzAxCxf2PMo6TAsYKtFAAAAWFgAL6PzLvNhpLF7lu9zXQetF1ZtyS4uxBhoRvK75/2zaaCwrlUc568ttfF/mVw1KVlGmrp63LU2+K/0rkdLo7BLVFK92lJJ2bb2Llf2T4GarbaDwClJSktSs7cr/CvFrN3JcSTejX0L8ZS/T8ji6FHJGy172+L3vu3WO36Owthoc8z85MvPqNkADoAAAAAAAAAAA0/SHQvbw+H5kmrfii919zIG6WaLeHxMqeR01ZNRe5NbuK2npE0mn+huExjUsRTzSSyqalKLSu3bU7PW3t4mbB5wuWsmPSHUnQl9DEVKfKcY1F6ZWczj+pnHQ+lKjVXB

23:05 <nicksydney> ScJeUlb1GDgkypucf0Lx1G/aYWqkt8Y51/FC6NM4tamrcv1AoVTKAgvzsOSe1L29iwFFXCPNBUNfzLx/MC4FrotbvLWWWM1wpAY4nz1J5pXexH3ZlvS/vuMOJprdqXDvINlonSqhFxyr4vlvG7Tvqs017EoaM0Y4ycp04wk0naF8qbVm1fXfVs3XZD2ifixNGP8A7IeeZE+VJ6zFaYMPgHOajFa3v3Li2dnhqChCMVsikvI+LQuByRzS+afotyNkdOYyAA0AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFjRad6E4PGSzYiinO1u0jKUJ23XcWr253N6AI3x3Ulh5fRxFWnyko1F6ZX6nN4/qYxkL9lUo1VwvKnJ+Ek1/MTYCYPOOP6DY+jftMLVst8Y9ovOnc0c4NO0lZ8Hqfkz1UfPi9HUqqtVpwqL

23:05 <nicksydney> hOEZL+ZDB5baKo9C4rq30bUd3hYxf+hzpryhJItxXVno2pFL7Mo2Vk4SnF6uNnrfN3Jg8+FUiYcd1JYd/RxFWnyko1F6ZX6nPY7qYxkLulUo1VwvKEvJpr1GDgIo+THXu7HXYjoBj6crSwtR69sUprzg2dxhOqJqlFynTdRq804ySTf3VUi7tLZsIIo6EUM2PoLhNN/u6/yJ/0Vgu0qXfyx1vm9yOZ0Z1c1aNeM1Tjqv8AEql4q6tf4kpEh6PwapU1Ha974t7WSTar6QAdEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUYAAqAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP//Z

23:05 <nicksydney> ooopppss

23:05 <nicksydney> sorry

23:06 <nicksydney> thought copied the location i copied the file :)

23:06 <wpwrak> did someone pick up the phone while you were on the modem ? ;-)

23:06 <nicksydney> cool...copy image file and paste into IRC paste the file itself in this format :) hhehehe

23:06 <nicksydney> ok will dig up the .pdf and print the footprint to see which one matches

23:07 <wpwrak> anyway, i don't think there's a "generic diode". alas, the diode makers stubbornly insist in not using "standard" packages like 0402, 0603, etc.

23:07 <wpwrak> but there are a bunch of SOD packages that seem to be reasonably common. so defining them could be useful.

23:10 <nicksydney> ok thanks

23:11 <wpwrak> as i said, i try to stay clear of reversible diodes. hmm, there was a japanese engineering design principle with a specific name for this

23:12 <wpwrak> the basic idea being that if you try to put a part in any way but the correct way, it will simply not fit

23:13 <nicksydney> ok

23:13 <wpwrak> diodes in symmetric packages are the perfect anti-pattern for this :)