Topic for #qi-hardware is now Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs
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<danlench1>
hi all, i need to talk to someone about hardware development for an FOSS project
<danlench1>
we will be launching a kickstarter project soon. the software is ready but i would like to offer a hardware solution as well
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<danlench1>
i need 1 or 2 SATA, 4 or 5 ethernet, 2 usb, and a way to provide 802.11* that can be upgraded
<danlench1>
per unit cost on 1k 5k 10k 50k intervals
<danlench1>
my emain is daniel@nofolder.com
<danlench1>
^email
<wpwrak>
hmm, i don't think anyone here is ready to do such things
<wpwrak>
(here) on this channel
<danlench1>
wpwrak: any suggestions
<danlench1>
are you involved with qi
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<wpwrak>
the hardware requirements are a bit tricky. maybe there's something out there that already exists. else, you'd need a custom design. or try to adjust the specs.
<wpwrak>
well yes, i'm involved with qi-hw. but i'm not sure what you think that means :)
<danlench1>
well i am looking for purpose built board
<danlench1>
well, i'm involved with alot of things as well ;)
<danlench1>
i'm preparing a kickstarter project
<danlench1>
think open source cross platform time capsule like device with dropbox like capabilities
<danlench1>
the software is done, i would like to provide a hardware option
<danlench1>
so i'm looking for manufacturers
<wpwrak>
maybe post to the qi-hw list. while i haven't seen any discussion about people actually picking up manufacturing tasks (except sharism and tuxbrain, but tuxbrain is dead and sharism doesn't do much anymore), there may be lurkers
<danlench1>
ok i will
<danlench1>
would you know who does the pcb for qi?
<danlench1>
well pcb + components
<danlench1>
thats what i'm really hunting for
<wpwrak>
you mean the pcb fab ? or the smt fab ?
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<wpwrak>
in the milkymist project, i think pcbs were made and smt'ed in taiwan
<wpwrak>
i think sharism sourced the components directly and then brought them to the smt fab
<danlench1>
right, probably, but who
<danlench1>
i mean i could do the smt in my garage if i had enough ovens
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul would know
<danlench1>
lol
<wpwrak>
good luck with the yield :)
<danlench1>
right!! late nights
<wpwrak>
and i think anything > 100 units would get extremely boring
<danlench1>
no, i need to price 10k at least
<wpwrak>
you're in the US ?
<danlench1>
all thoes pick and place makerbots
<danlench1>
yeah
<danlench1>
u
<wpwrak>
you may also want to try to get domestic quotes for a first estimate
<wpwrak>
at least for the pcb, that's easy
<danlench1>
it's on the list ;)
<danlench1>
i appreciate your time, i would love to throw this to an open source hw org
<wpwrak>
then you can check your components on digi-key, subtract 10% for volume and maybe 10-20% for asia and you'd have a rough idea
<danlench1>
yep, the case is the other thing ;)
<wpwrak>
unfortunately, in the qi-hw universe we're not quite set up for contract manufacturing. at least not anymore. would have been a possibility maybe a year ago or two.
<wpwrak>
ah yes, cases are fun :)
<danlench1>
ugg
<danlench1>
i didnt have a developer then :/
<wpwrak>
milkymist had a fairly nice solution. all 2D cuts
<danlench1>
right, KISS
<wpwrak>
(solution) for its case
<wpwrak>
aye :)
<danlench1>
wolfspraul: do you by anychance know who does the pcb and smt for qi? i'm looing for a manurfacturer for my project and would love a reccomendation
<danlench1>
hows that
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<wolfspraul>
thanks for asking but you don't want to hear my recommendation
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<danlench1>
lol, at least i put my work machine on the line first
<danlench1>
uh oh
<danlench1>
ok, maybe a warning then. i'm ok with that also ;)
<wpwrak>
sounds as if you need a hw designer, too
<danlench1>
i have a few on the list but always appreciate another
<danlench1>
arm or atom, needs to run minimal fedora or centos
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<danlench1>
these will all be for the home or "small" users
<danlench1>
the enterprise can use their own HW
<danlench1>
still free of charge
<wpwrak>
in your place, i'd first try to find a board/device that already does more or less what you need. it's a lot easier to source an existing device than making a new one.
<danlench1>
the mobile clients will be $5 to fund development
<danlench1>
well...
<wpwrak>
the large number of ethers combined with SATA could be a problem. does this thing really have to be a router/switch ?
<wpwrak>
ah, and that would be a 2x ether solution
<wpwrak>
and with plenty of SATA interfaces
<danlench1>
its too much
<danlench1>
wolfspraul: i appreciate your words
<wpwrak>
and i concur with wolfgang: since you're aiming for a relatively high-performance design, which also has a fair number of peripherals, you're likely to face a very long and costly development process
<wpwrak>
so a much better approach would be to find something you can just OEM
<danlench1>
well i plan to run the kickstarter in 2 projects, one for the software only one for hardware only
<danlench1>
oem would be great
<danlench1>
been looking for a month
<danlench1>
new stuff every day
<danlench1>
time for me to retire for the nite
<wpwrak>
maybe have some vacations in taipei and shanghai (or shenzen ?), and visit the local markets :)
<danlench1>
thanks so much for your input
<wpwrak>
np. good luck !
<danlench1>
:D
<danlench1>
i'll be back ;)
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<wpwrak>
sigh. why doesn't just once someone pop up who wants to make hardware who a) already has the bag of money necessary and b) wants to make, say, a new nanonote ? it would be such a pleasure to help with such a thing ...
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<whitequark>
wpwrak: I wonder, how much money would be required for a new NN?
<whitequark>
lower bound :D
<whitequark>
the upper one is obviously +∞
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<wpwrak>
whitequark: hmm, production-ready design in the order of 100-150 kUSD
<wpwrak>
perhaps more 150 than 100, considering that the case may be a bit of work
<whitequark>
hm
<whitequark>
where did you get the money for first Ben, then?
<wpwrak>
as far as i know, that came from wolfgang's savings
<wpwrak>
also, the first ben wasn't an original design. it was licensed from a company that sold it as a dictionary
<whitequark>
I see
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<paul_boddie>
Having read the logs, I wonder if danlench1 should be talking to the arm-netbook people. Although I'm not sure whether 4 or 5 Ethernet ports is on their roadmap.
<paul_boddie>
Maybe a router/switch manufacturer, then.
<whitequark>
I'm fairly sure that a dumb switch chip is trivial to obtain
<whitequark>
and is not very demanding
<wpwrak>
not sure if many of them are interested in making custom designs
<paul_boddie>
It sounds like a super-sized FreedomBox. :-)
<wpwrak>
the problem is that the whole system is fairly high-end. you need a very well-equipped shop to make such a thing work.
<paul_boddie>
By the way, wpwrak, looking at the documentation for the Arduino shield I was talking about, it appears that feeding 5V to the shield's VIN pin is necessary. The circuit then ensures that the controller gets 3.3V. And there was I thinking I could skip over those pages in the datasheet. :-)
<wpwrak>
there's your problem :)
<wpwrak>
could you feed the 3.3 V directly into the 3.3 V rail, ignoring the 5 V side ?
<paul_boddie>
No, that didn't seem to work.
<wpwrak>
:(
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<paul_boddie>
USB would need 5V anyway, as I understand it, so some external power source is probably required. I was using USB as that power source (through the Arduino), but that's cheating. :-)
<wpwrak>
well yes, external power is always a solution ...
<wpwrak>
just make sure you don't connect the ben to any 5 V net. it may resent that.
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<paul_boddie>
Indeed.
<paul_boddie>
Here, I assume that the shield's designer followed the advice on those other datasheet pages I wasn't interested in reading. ;-)
<wpwrak>
heh :)
<wpwrak>
isn't arduino switching to 3.3 V, too, for their next generation ? i thought i read something like that. or was that some arduino-like board ?
<wpwrak>
5 V is so 1980es ...
<C-Keen>
there are several 3.3V variants
<C-Keen>
arduino pro or something for example
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<danlench>
i have a meeting in 30 min that i have to prepare for, i'll be back ;)
<wpwrak>
and yes, there's also a hard to find uSD wifi module. not sure if there are any other portable wifi solutions for the ben.
<paul_boddie>
By the way, wpwrak, on that microSD Sniffer product page there was someone wanting to use that board to break out to a normal SD card socket which they then intended to use with an Eye-Fi card.
<wpwrak>
hmm, at some point those appendages will become a mechanical problem ...
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<paul_boddie>
I'm not advocating EyeFi usage - I'm not sure how easy it is to make it a general WiFi solution or that it costs much less than that Spectec card once you add on the price of all the bits needed to connect it - but I wonder whether anyone looked into using one as a quick hack before now.