<bartbes>
alcy: well, I quickly went through it all
<bartbes>
but tbh, my experience is a lot more positive...
<alcy>
bartbes, hope mine is too. and now that Debian's been ported, gives me all the more reason to get it :)
<wolfspraul>
alcy: the IDA devices probably still have the original 20100113 image, unless Rakshat reflashed them :-)
<alcy>
wolfspraul: had a talk with their representative, its the original one only.
<wolfspraul>
cool, if you can buy one we need more fans and users in India...
<alcy>
wolfspraul, I would have bought when it came here itself, but at the time I was busy with the beagleboard. also, the nanonote wiki wasn't particularly encouraging back then , really ! but recently I chanced upon the wiki just to see how things were going and was quite happy to see the changes ! :)
<wolfspraul>
he, fair enough
<wolfspraul>
I think we went 5% of the way now :-)
<wolfspraul>
but some good stuff happening, for example the quite successful kernel.org upstreaming process
<wolfspraul>
Werner's case and RF hacking
<wolfspraul>
GPS hacking
<wolfspraul>
Milkymist and Xue
<wolfspraul>
etc. etc.
<alcy>
wifi , debian :)
<wolfspraul>
also really good contributions now into openwrt, jlime, etc.
<wolfspraul>
yes sure
<wolfspraul>
gentoo also I think
<wolfspraul>
but I still want a 100% free smartphone, and that's a long long way...
<wolfspraul>
anyway, IDA Systems in Jaipur is really great
<alcy>
wolfspraul: totally agree. I am not sure of their sales, it can;t be that great...but hose guys are staying dedicated to this
<wolfspraul>
it's not just the technology, it's also the people and companies you support
<wolfspraul>
of course not great :-)
<wolfspraul>
let's see where Ben software is in 6 months...
<wolfspraul>
(I hope you buy before that, still :-))
<wolfspraul>
you did something with the beagleboard - how did it go?
<wolfspraul>
I stay away from TI stuff as much as possible...
<alcy>
heh, tomorrow I'll order most likely :)
<alcy>
well, beagleboard was fascinating. learned a thing or two about embedded systems etc. but never quite got around hacking it good. hope to change things with nanonote.
<alcy>
I mean beagleboard was my entry into this domain. so yeah its quite exciting - all of this
<SiENcE>
hey
<SiENcE>
i wanna ask, if someone tried keymouse with nanonote?
<SiENcE>
some time ago i compiled one for dingux...
<SiENcE>
and it works good
<kyak>
there is an article on wiki about this
<wolfspraul>
alcy: it's such a big field - which area are you interested in?
<alcy>
wolfspraul, not really view it like that, but if I had to I'd say software/kernel/distros. mainly for fun :) just for the sake of having a nice gadget
<wolfspraul>
ah yeah I just randomly listed a few things
<bartbes>
btw, is there anyone here who has linked c++ against lua?
<mirko>
larsc: i'd like to merge over some features of openwrt-trunk, as uclibc-nptl support
<mirko>
larsc: what do you think of doing so with kernel 2.6.35 support as well?
<larsc>
well, why not?
<mirko>
hmm, subtree merges seem to be not supported nativly with keeping the history :/
<larsc>
cherry-pick
<larsc>
them
<viric>
larsc: could you try the mmc card detection ?
<viric>
(just curious)
<larsc>
viric: i don't have my nanonote here right now.
<viric>
ah ok
<larsc>
but i tested it before i commited the card detect fix and it worked then
<viric>
h
<viric>
m
<viric>
ok
<viric>
I thought yesterday you wanted to try to reproduce my problem
<viric>
Do you know of someone other than me that can try that?
<larsc>
everybody who has a nanonote ;)
<larsc>
viric: i'll will test it when i have access to my nanonote
<larsc>
which might be later today or tomorrow
<viric>
I mean someone ready to put that kernel there :)
<viric>
ok, no problem. I was only curious.
<larsc>
to me it looks as if your detect switch is stuck somehow. otherwise the gpio pin wouldn't be high if the card is removed
<viric>
larsc: but in 2.6.34 it notices, I think.
<viric>
simply it does not understand the card.
<viric>
but it reacts when I put the card in
<larsc>
hm
<bartbes>
is anyone aware of this: make[3]: *** No rule to make target `kernlb.fi', needed by `gforth'.  Stop
<rafa>
wpwrak: how are the two idbgs made for the artist? (if that happened)
<rafa>
:)
<viric>
Is anyone here reading PDFs in the ben?
<viric>
what program do you use for that?
<viric>
nupdf?
<alcy>
viric, yup read about it today itself
<viric>
hm ok
<viric>
I wonder if it is any comfortable at all
<viric>
And what browser do you use in it? For html rendering
<viric>
you = anyone in the channel
<alcy>
"Another indispensable program is "Nupdf". It does quite a decent job of rendering PDF files on the tiny machine. Just don't press [enter] because that gets you in a menu that is very volatile. If that happens, leave it as soon as you can before the thing hangs."Â Â from the blog I read today http://thebeezspeaks.blogspot.com/
<wpwrak>
rafa: naw, i'm making them myself :) still now quite done, though. but i think they'll be fine.
<kristianpaul>
viric: mupsd
<kristianpaul>
mupdf
<kristianpaul>
i dint tried nupdf
<kristianpaul>
yet
<kristianpaul>
is openwrt buildable?
<kristianpaul>
mupdf is in jlime wich deservers a try :)
<rafa>
kristianpaul: nupdf uses mupdf.. so I guess that mupdf is nicer (for tiny machines) yet than nupdf :)
<rafa>
wpwrak: well, thanks a lot for that, and sorry for me being lazy these days.. many visitors.. I hope to do a good installation tomorrow, so I deserve your effort making the 2 idbgs ;)
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: hey
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: are you selling  idbgs?
<kristianpaul>
thats the tiny board = mcu intednded for the freerunner isnt?
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: nope, not selling. i don't have real production resources.
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: it's the board for the freerunner, yes. now i've adapted it for the ben as well.
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: ahh :)
<kristianpaul>
great
<kristianpaul>
may be can used on miljymist too btw
<kristianpaul>
milkymist one*
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: i guess you have to talk wolfgang into producing it in real quantities :)
<kristianpaul>
:)
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: (mm) hmm, maybe. not sure what that one needs. idbg's jtag isn't too good (and the ben version doesn't have jtag at all, since you can already unbrick via usb)
<kristianpaul>
hmm true
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: just asking who faster is that usb chip for the idbg?
<kristianpaul>
like for doing SPI to USB?
<kristianpaul>
may be bitbanginf gpio?
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: the ftdi is pretty fast. the c8051f326 might be able to achieve something like 3 MHz SPI speed, but not more. there are of course better chips in that family. the c8051f326 is very bottom-end.
<kristianpaul>
ok
<kristianpaul>
hwo expsive for you is got that stuff in argentina , you live thre right?
<kristianpaul>
stuff = c8051f326
<kristianpaul>
sip
<kristianpaul>
ops
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: well, i order my components from digi-key. then ther's shipping, which is relatively inexpensive. only USD 40. and then argentine customs fees and taxes, about 25-30% in total.
<wpwrak>
off for some shopping for a bit
<kristianpaul>
sure after pay 40usd in shipping :/
<kristianpaul>
ahh i think i'll read more about the fdti chip
<kristianpaul>
and SPI
<methril_work>
kristianpaul, you could buy a JTAGKey or some FTDI like JTAG
<lekernel>
wpwrak, you can also try mouser, they can send by USPS... and they don't systematically add taxes like fedex
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: (40 usd) at some point in time, it used to be more than USD 100 to ship things from digi-key :-( so i always just collect stuff i want until i exceed USD 500 or so.
<wpwrak>
lekernel: digi-key can send with USPS too. but that gets more expensive in the end, because the customs fees on that route are 50%.
<lekernel>
and the very nice thing about fedex is they charge you: 1. the VAT on your product 2. the "service" of adding VAT to your product 3. the "service" of making you pay when you receive the parcel 4. "value added" tax on the last two items
<lekernel>
fuck them
<wpwrak>
lekernel: USPS does make sense however, if i exceed USD 1000. because fedex/ups/dhl/regular mail then can only clear customs with the help of a customs broker, while EMS (aka USPS EMI) is a higher limit for the "simple procedure" of USD 3000.
<lekernel>
really? never had to pay any tax with USPS
<wpwrak>
lekernel: huh, are you sure it's fedex who charge you ? it's usually customs who do that. fedex just collect the money.
<wpwrak>
lekernel: i suppose you're not in argentina :)
<lekernel>
items 2 and 3 are charged by fedex, not the others
<lekernel>
but in the end it makes a really shitty bill
<wpwrak>
lekernel: btw, for a really bad experience, try dhl. when i foolishly tried to get things with a value > USD 1000, fedex brought me the papers and then i was left on my own to get this stuff through customs myself.
<lekernel>
all stupid overhead
<wpwrak>
lekernel: dhl, on the other hand, just sent me a note informing me that i should go to their office, get the papers for the small fee of about USD 100, and then take care of my things myself. very nice.
<lekernel>
you mean go to the airport and talk to the customs yourself?
<lekernel>
oh, yeah
<lekernel>
cool
<wpwrak>
lekernel: yup, airport, wait ~ 2 hours. find out what they didn't like. get told i need a customs broker. search for one. explain to that guy what it is. go home. come back the next day. have him talk to customs. pay fees, taxes, and "grease" money. a nice way to spend a couple of days.
<lekernel>
what the hell is a custom broker?
<lekernel>
can't you talk directly to the custom agents?
<nebajoth>
its someone who ensures that large shipments of internationally shipped goods are compliant with customs regulations
<wpwrak>
lekernel: the guy who makes sure you and the customs broker are never in the same room when the delicate topic of bribes is approached :)
<nebajoth>
my brother in law is one
<lekernel>
nebajoth, that's a custom agent
<wpwrak>
lekernel: you can talk to them and they tell you you can't do the importation. very easy :)
<nebajoth>
don't think so
<nebajoth>
like I said
<nebajoth>
my brother in law is one
<nebajoth>
that's what he does for a living
<nebajoth>
right now he's doing it for a company that makes patio furniture
<lekernel>
thinks he should get a better job
<nebajoth>
does too.
<nebajoth>
but it pays well
<nebajoth>
and its actually super hard to become one
<nebajoth>
only like 7% pass the test
<nebajoth>
it involves basically memorizing the customs laws
<nebajoth>
so you have to have a huge capacity for memorizing trivia
<nebajoth>
which my brother in law does
<nebajoth>
much to my annoyance at parties
<lekernel>
wpwrak, out of curiosity, what was the reason the customs told you for refusing importation?
<viric>
I've looked at mupdf... it looks made for Xorg
<viric>
kristianpaul: weren't you using mupdf in the ben? Do you have Xorg in the ben?
<bartbes>
doesn't jlime have X?
<tuxbrain2>
jlime has X
<tuxbrain2>
barbes stop reading my mind :P
<bartbes>
tuxbrain2: stop typoing my name
<bartbes>
:P
<tuxbrain>
touche!
<tuxbrain>
promise use more often the tab function
<bartbes>
well, to be perfectly honest, that was the second sentence I made
<bartbes>
so I was even faster!
<bartbes>
(or I read your mind even earlier, or I read your mind in the future... hmm)
<viric>
tuxbrain, bartbes: ah, have X? hmm interesting. I did not think the ben could run X
<bartbes>
well, why not?
<bartbes>
meh.. memory perhaps
<tuxbrain>
viric: X exist from the 386 era, :) if remember well, Ben was in between a pentium and pentiumII, I'm wrong?
<tuxbrain>
I have read a benchmark let me search
<bartbes>
urandom__: btw, I managed to get the love runtime + love.filesystem running on the ben today
<bartbes>
thought you might be interested
<tuxbrain>
I'm wrong, ben was more betten a 486 <-> Pentium 200, but using lot less few power than any other x86 architecture
<urandom__>
wow nice
<bartbes>
(not that it was too hard, I just had to figure out how to do a few things)
<urandom__>
of course i am interested bartbes, love on ben will be lot of fun
<tuxbrain>
I think I have asked before but what is "love"? (baby don't hurtme ....) :P
<mth>
the kdrive X server should run just fine on 32MB
<mth>
whether it's useful with a 320x240 screen and no mouse is another matter
<bartbes>
on a normal desktop computer you can run X in X in X
<bartbes>
so yeah
<urandom__>
x is running fine on ben with jlime
<tuxbrain>
bartbes: damn man, you have added another item to my TODO list "Learning LUA"
<bartbes>
hehe
<tuxbrain>
please don't showme any cool thing on Gforth!, I only have one live
<urandom__>
Lua is the most awesome language ever, really worth learning it (and very easy)
<bartbes>
gforth.. yeah, too bad I didn't get it to compile earlier today
<bartbes>
though forth is more like a mental excersize to me
<tuxbrain>
urandom__: I remember when I listen the same about python :P
<bartbes>
well, lua is a lot smaller than python
<bartbes>
so a lot easier to learn :P
<kristianpaul>
viric: with Jlime
<kristianpaul>
X runs just good :)
<tuxbrain>
C++>java>python>lua>...
<nebajoth>
lol @ java
<bartbes>
what is that supposed to be, quality?
<bartbes>
because if so
<bartbes>
I'm going to be sneaking up to your house with a knife in a few mins
<urandom__>
maybe he meant it the other way round
<bartbes>
lol no
<bartbes>
because java is still in the wrong place
<nebajoth>
maybe its the scale of not-awesomeness
<bartbes>
no man, c++ is better than java for sure
<bartbes>
and depending on the situation better than python
<bartbes>
(imo)
<kristianpaul>
tuxbrain: you missed posix C
<urandom__>
oh and Forth is on my TODO learning list, not sure if it is worth it but i like its simplicity
<tuxbrain>
not was a better scale, of course I prefer python over java in most cases, and C++ ends in a compiled bin allways more efficient than any interpreted language (yes I consider java interpreted (bytcodes but interpret any way)
<tuxbrain>
I the simplicity scale
<bartbes>
simplicity?
<tuxbrain>
it was a simplicity scale
<bartbes>
hmm I never thought of java as easier than c++
<tuxbrain>
for me is
<bartbes>
urandom__: I have yet to find me a single use for forth
<bartbes>
but it's cool
<tuxbrain>
forth can even run without SO
<bartbes>
the stack stuff really forces you to think in a different way
<bartbes>
tuxbrain: yes it can
<bartbes>
(if you mean OS)
<tuxbrain>
I see it in action on Wikireader
<bartbes>
forth can, java, python, lua, etc can't
<tuxbrain>
yes sorry I mean OS, I see it as ideal to run testing hardware on production
<tuxbrain>
in fact I have read in ebedded world is some what a secret weapon
<tuxbrain>
I think secret due is not very known outside the embedded world, not even in the embedded world outside the enginering dptment :)
<urandom__>
most not c-like languages arent very known
<nebajoth>
you forget the functional languages
<nebajoth>
they seem fairly well known
<urandom__>
nah not as much as they would deserve to be known
<viric>
tuxbrain, kristianpaul: is it Xorg built for the framebruffer?
<viric>
how does the mouse work there?
<viric>
mth: I didn't know of kdrive. Thank you!
<viric>
is that what jlime uses? kdrive X?
<tuxbrain>
viric: yes it use kdrive
<viric>
ah I read: "As of X.Org Server version 7.1, the KDrive framework was integrated into the reference implementation and is now part of the generic source code release of the server."
<tuxbrain>
I far as I know they hide the mouse making it transparent, you use kbd to control it, the window system is matchbox
<viric>
I can build the xorg server with "--enable-kdrive". Interesting!
<viric>
I'm trying
<viric>
tuxbrain: matchbox.. thank you!
<wpwrak>
lekernel: (customs) usually "electrical security". i.e., when the thing connects to mains but doesn't have the argentina-only certification.
<wpwrak>
lekernel: (customs) a value > USD 1000 would get me too, though.
<wpwrak>
lekernel: ironically, i once bought a bitscope and asked them to ship it without power supply, because of this. they did and it passed customs without problems. in fact, this time they didn't even look inside the box. then i bought a power supply locally. that one had a leakage between the primary and the secondary side. one dead usb port on the pc and a dead bitscope later, i was aware of that slight problem, too. thanks, customs, for
<monofuel>
i run gentoo and i know my way around compiling, just i'm unfamiliar with mips
<unclouded>
no root privs required or anything non-standard needing to be installed on your workstation and it builds: 1) the bootloader 2) the kernel, 3) the rootfs and 4) the individual packages for installation on a system that's already set up
<unclouded>
I don't even notice that it's MIPS.  it's mipsel so maybe that's why there are few issues cross-compiling
<unclouded>
the OpenWRT process on that wiki page builds a MIPS toolchain in the directory in which you unpack it, so you can just compile for MIPS on your x86 ( or whatever) box
<monofuel>
ah k
<unclouded>
there are some members of the community who are into getting Gentoo working smoothly on the NN too ( if you want to run Gentoo on it)
<unclouded>
if you get some micro SD cards you can put a different distro on each if you like.  Just hold down the M key when you power on to boot from SD
<monofuel>
would it be possible for me to run openwrt in qemu and try it out first?
<unclouded>
don't know.  You can use qemu to boot a MIPS system but the NN kernel likely expect the NN LCD driver to be present, which I guess qemu doesn't emulate
<monofuel>
ah
<unclouded>
monofuel: what sort of apps do you write in perl & SDL?
<monofuel>
so far it hasn't been much, we've just designed a simple racing game based around drifting
<unclouded>
sounds pretty cool.  how much processing power does it need to run?
<monofuel>
i'm not entirely sure, not much i'd imagine
<monofuel>
i'll run it and monitor it with htop a sec...
<monofuel>
it's using about 37mb of ram and only 5% of a 2.6ghz
<monofuel>
however it's using fairly large sprites and such
<monofuel>
that would probably have to be toned down anyway for nn
<unclouded>
sounds like it could run on the NN with smaller sprites.  there's a good reason to get one then ;)
<monofuel>
i can assume most text-based adventures like nethack and angband run?
<monofuel>
that would be a major plus :)
<unclouded>
i can't see a reason why they wouldn't.  not sure which games like that have been ported so far.  the CPU is fairly grunty, it's the RAM that games have to be frugal with
<monofuel>
what about swap?
<unclouded>
I ported freedroid almost without having to patch it at all to run on the NN.  Freedroid actually render every frame at 640x480 and then scales it to 320x240 to fit the screen.  every single frame.  manages about 30fps I think
<xdpirate>
how can i have a script that's respawned by init everytime it's killed, launch something only a single time?
<unclouded>
xdpirate: what about /etc/inittab?
<xdpirate>
unclouded, the rootfs is read-only
<xdpirate>
specifically, i need it to run mkswap the first time the script is run, but not on subsequent runs (until next reboot)
<unclouded>
monofuel: I haven't tried swap but I imagine it's as simple as create a file with dd, editing fstab and using swapon
<unclouded>
xdpirate: why does the swap partition/file have to be initialized each boot at all?  it's normally only done once
<xdpirate>
unclouded, are you saying that i only need to run mkswap once ever on the swap file, and it'll work with swap on each time, even after reboots?
<unclouded>
monofuel: better to swap on SD, not on the internal NAND.  don't want to reduce those precious write cycles
<unclouded>
xdpirate: that's the way swap usually works I thought
<xdpirate>
unclouded, that makes my problem non-existant then, thanks :D
<monofuel>
yup. also i was wondering about wifi?
<xdpirate>
ah, mkswap physically moves the swap file together with 0 fragmentation
<xdpirate>
makes sense that once that's done, it won't have to be run again
<unclouded>
monofuel: wifi is not built in.  you can use an SDIO wifi card but a) you can't use an SD card at the same time and b) it costs as much again as the NN!
<xdpirate>
there exists wifi cards that have are combo wifi/storage, but no drivers
<xdpirate>
so you'd have to write them yourself :P
<monofuel>
i read that ethernet over usb cables work?
<monofuel>
i could use it with a a cheap wireless router running dd-wrt
<monofuel>
not sure about how to power the router though- also it might be bulky.
<unclouded>
monofuel: yes.  unless you compile your own kernels without the correct modules, as soon as you connect the NN to your workstation, your workstation gains a usb0 interface
<monofuel>
or rather what about just a usb device?
<monofuel>
errr- usb wifi device
<monofuel>
most usb wifi devices have spotty linux support- however i've had experience with them working fine with ndiswrapper
<unclouded>
monofuel: no USB HOST support unfortunately, it's only a USB device like most phones.  USB HOST support is very high priority for the next revision on the NN because so many people want it so badly
<monofuel>
so does that rule out usb flash drives too?
<xdpirate>
monofuel, yes, anything that needs a host
<xdpirate>
monofuel, it can only act as a slave, connected to a host, such as a pc
<unclouded>
you can still use them via your workstation but not on the go, no