<DocScrutinizer05>
bottom line: PP says they release payments 180 days after initial transaction - though they didn't yet on UG account. And if we ever again want to use PP we should sell some virtual good customer can download, e.g. all the stuff on http://neo900.org/resources
<DocScrutinizer05>
I wonder if PP would accept sales of e.g. schematics, with the option to later on trade in those schematics for the fullsize pack consisting of schematics and hardware
<bencoh>
arent schems already available?
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure they are, doesn't mean we can't sell them, eh?
<bencoh>
:))
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<DocScrutinizer05>
tricky nasty downside: according to german/EU taxation *everybody* has to pay VAT for virtual goods, even when sold outside EU. Since you can't really prove where to you sold the download
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe Neo900 UG needs to relocate to the kayman islands or whatever
<DocScrutinizer05>
so I think this is a K.O. criterion for paypal payments "for schematics", unless we send a CD or something physical
<bencoh>
why? cant you sell software?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, of course you can. But when you sell it via download only, you have to give VAT to tax office for each sale, no matter if inner-german or to india or australia
<DocScrutinizer05>
when we need to give VAT to tax office, we need to charge it to customers
<bencoh>
ha, you mean sending a physical object outside of the EU would be accepted as some kind of "proof"
<DocScrutinizer05>
so far the "down payments" are credits, and you never pay VAT for credits since eventually you have to payback them to the one who gave it to you
<DocScrutinizer05>
bencoh: exactly
<Wizzup>
So the tl;dr is that paypal doesn't do what paypal's lawyer says
<Wizzup>
So they will have to act upon what the lawyer said
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<Wizzup>
Cool. That is somewhat good news
<DocScrutinizer05>
somewhat, yes
<Wizzup>
I chose the word advisedly
<DocScrutinizer05>
NB PP isn't obliged to act according to their own lawyer's word, they may do whatever they like
<bencoh>
what does their lawyer say?
<DocScrutinizer05>
so I have to be careful to convince them to listen to their own lawyer
<DocScrutinizer05>
>>Alle erhaltenen Betraege werden nach jeweils 180 Tagen freigegeben. Ihr Mandant [Neo900 UG] kann also diesen Zeitraum abwarten, um das Guthaben abbuchen zu koennen<<
<DocScrutinizer05>
bencoh: ^^^
<bencoh>
err...
<bencoh>
I definitely cant read german :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
all received payments get released after 180 days. Your client thus can wait for this timespan and then can withdraw the credits
<bencoh>
ah :)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
and further >>Please note that this timespan starts with the date at which a particular payment been received. The credit will not in entirety get released 180 days after receipt of first payment<<
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<bencoh>
?
<DocScrutinizer05>
which still doesn't hurt us since 90%+ of the credit been received during May and June
<DocScrutinizer05>
bencoh: (?) aka "each payment gets released 180 days after that particular payment been received"
<bencoh>
thx :)
<bencoh>
(nice mind reading ;)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
alas PP has installed an unlimited general reserve of USD 200,000 which is not going to vanish for a particular payment. So now I need to ask the lawyer to tell risk management department to act according to what lawyer thinks is correct and in line with PP's ToS
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<Wizzup>
thumbs up :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's pretty insane to have a reserve of 200k$ on an account that had max 50k of payments so far. No?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
they _ought_ have defined a percentage of payment they freeze. Even when that percentage would be 100% (also quite unusual, rather a 20 or 30% are usual)
<DocScrutinizer05>
from a risk management POV it's simply rogue and lazy to have a fixed reserve without expiration date
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<Arch-TK>
DocScrutinizer05: sell a 1x1 image
<Arch-TK>
a very exciting 1x1 png which is entirely pink.
<Pali>
“SEC 2: Recommended Elliptic Curve Domain Parameters", Version 2.0, by Certicom
<Pali>
ECC Brainpool working group.
<Pali>
EN 419212
<Pali>
no 25519 curve :-(
<DocScrutinizer05>
enyc: yes, thanks :-) good time but too short for the intended purpose
<Arch-TK>
if I can have a gpg secure card thing in my phone I can run pass with a shared key between my neo-n and have pass for password storage on my phone.
<Arch-TK>
That would be awesome.
<Arch-TK>
Or I can find out how to get pass to encrypt for multiple keys.
<Arch-TK>
I can get it to do that but it's not pretty.
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<barnseenio>
i read this story today - http://neo900.org/news/paypal-trouble-delays-project - and came to say paypal did exactly same thing to my project. they carried on allowing payments but blocked withdrawal of funds. theres no happy ending. had lawyers and everything, but they didnt move one inch. got a standard email 18 months later saying i could log back into account and withdraw > 50k GBP approx. hope you get a better outcome, b