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<digitalcircuit>
0.202 release notes - "Removed Sandstorm for Work paywall" Dang, that's a pretty big policy change. I'm guessing this'll be a blog post soon-ish?
<xet7>
digitalcircuit: where is those release notes? link=
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<AdamLake>
I am doing a bit of research into how the great work being done at Sandstorm can be integrated with other technologies to create a privacy protecting P2P operating system. I am curious how identity is currently managed on Sandstorm? If a person migrates their server from one host to another are the share settings maintained?
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
I actually just did the exact procedure last night! It was across two servers on my local network, and yes they are.
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
Also, I've actually been toying around with the idea of 'boot-to-sandstorm'
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
Identity is managed by Sandstorm.
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
Sandstorm handles logging in via logon providers, and then when a user opens a grain, it passes the user identity to the app.
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
Apps are unable to see emails, etc. They send a request to Sandstorm to do that, to my understanding of it.
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
AdamLake
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<kentonv>
AdamLake: If you're migrating the whole server, database and all, then everything remains identical, as you might expect. If you're migrating a single grain by downloading a backup and restoring it, you'll need to send out new sharing links from the new server. But, the app will be able to recognize the users as being the same people, as long as they log in with the same login provider.
<TimMc>
Do the login providers care if the domain name changes in that move?
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
yes, but all you need to do is reconfigure it on their end
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
Sandstorm just uses them for the email IIRC
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
plus the picture and gender
<kentonv>
Sandstorm uses them for "identity" (assigning a global identifier to the user), and also copies some profile details over if available.
<kentonv>
and verifies e-mail addresses
<kentonv>
though the global identifier isn't the e-mail address, unless you are actually using e-mail login
<kentonv>
the identifiers are computed in a way that they'll be the same across all Sandstorm servers
<kentonv>
this is why we can't have username/password login -- there's no global identifier
<kentonv>
though we're considering design changes that could loosen this up a bit
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
I like the way Sandstorm does SSO rn
<kentonv>
there's also a problem if, like, you have one Sandstorm server that uses only Google login, and then you transition to one that uses only e-mail login. Now any grains you transfer think that all the users are different.
<AdamLake>
"Sandstorm handles logging in via logon providers" so could this be any identity provider?
<kentonv>
AdamLake: Currently we support e-mail, Google, Github, LDAP, and SAML
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
also, thanks for free work featurew
<kentonv>
we could add OpenID, Facebook, Twitter, IndieAuth, PGP, ...
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
also, thanks for free work features
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
LDAP is awesome because it now works with everything else in my lb
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
lab
<AdamLake>
Since Sandstorm seems to be focused on freeing we citizens you might be interested in this, https://www.sovrin.org/
<kentonv>
in any case, I'd like to add a level of indirection so that when you restore a grain backup, you can remap the users if needed. In this case user IDs would stop being global -- they'd be local to the grain.
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<kentonv>
this would let us move away from identities being firmly attached to login mechanisms, which is kind of weird and confusing today. And it would let us add username/password login, although I still feel that username/password is dangerous...
<AdamLake>
I am wondering if there is a way to combine Sandstorm with https://solid.mit.edu/ and perhaps blockchain/s for identity/reputation to create a truly p2p self sovereign operating system on top of which people could have google doc functionality and decentralized versions of facebook, Uber and the like...I know this is a big question and I don't expe
<AdamLake>
ct you to answer it. :)
<AdamLake>
Sanstorm seems like a big part of the solution.
<kentonv>
last I looked at solid, they were primarily focused on standardizing storage formats. So apps would still be centrally-hosted, but they'd connect to your private storage under your control and try to manipulate the data in a way that is compatible with other apps.
<kentonv>
it's actually a pretty different approach from Sandstorm, where we are moving the compute to your private server, not just the storage.
<AdamLake>
that is part of it, "Solid (derived from "social linked data") is a proposed set of conventions and tools for building decentralized social applications based on Linked Data principles. "
<kentonv>
we definitely have big plans for federation and being able to host decentralized social networks, though our vision would be based on common protocols rather than common data formats.
<kentonv>
IMO protocols are easier because you can have one app that speaks many protocols, but it's hard to have one piece of data in many formats. :)
<AdamLake>
that is good to hear. I am cautious about centralization in any way, particularly around identity, a difficult problem to solve.
<AdamLake>
I am not interested in profiting off of your hard work, but is Sandstorm fully open source? Are there restrictions for reusing the code for commercial purposes? Could others host Sandstorm servers for a fee?
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
yes IIRC
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
they even do it themselves with oasis
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
I could set up a canonical type company that does work on sandstorm
<kentonv>
The scalable back-end of Oasis is currently not open source.
<kentonv>
the open source Sandstorm is limited to a single machine whereas Oasis utilizes a cluster.
<kentonv>
However, if you wait 24 hours and ask again, there may be a new answer. >_>
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
:D
<kentonv>
the single-machine version of Sandstorm is under the Apache 2 license.
<AdamLake>
okay, my goal to make the creation of decentralized apps/networks easier so we can create more egalitarian alternatives to tech monopolies. I'd love to hear more about your plans to create decentralized social networks. If you have the solutions(you clearly have some of them) I want to promote them and be involved.
<AdamLake>
thanks for your reply's btw. :)
<AdamLake>
I appreciate it.
<kentonv>
AdamLake, you should sign up on the sandstorm-dev mailing list
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
I would start contributing to sandstorm
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
~~if I wasn't too dumb to be able to get it to npm install~~
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
no markdown
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
:(
<kentonv>
sandstorm-dev and IRC are where we coordinate development discussions and contributions
<AdamLake>
I am not highly technical. I want to write about, promote, and help with business development around "platform cooperatives"
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
why not just use something like NodeBB for it
<AdamLake>
kentonv, you have any links to your/others ideas about how Sandstorm will be used to produce decentralized social networks?
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<kentonv>
AdamLake, there might be a blog post if you look back, can't remember at the moment. Basic idea is that you would host your profile as a grain on Sandstorm, then connect it to other people's profiles (probably using the Powerbox UI) to follow them, etc.
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
that' genius
<AdamLake>
okay, thanks for the info!
<kentonv>
posts on your feed live in your grain, posts on other people's feeds live in theirs
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<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
Just as a quick question: what apps would you like to see ported to Sandstorm?
<digitalcircuit>
Jenkins on Sandstorm seems like it'd be pretty powerful as an easy click-install alternative to Travis CI, but I imagine that's rather resource-intensive.
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
> phabricator
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
>> dealing with PHP
<kentonv>
HeyItsMeUrIRC, yes, that Diaspora
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<kentonv>
digitalcircuit, I dunno. For a lot of projects, they only need to do builds every now and then, when there's a change, so Sandstorm's ability to start and stop things could be a lot nicer than having a VM always-running.
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<kentonv>
digitalcircuit, we would want to start metering compute on Oasis, though.
<digitalcircuit>
kentonv, I didn't even consider the start-stop, that makes sense! I was thinking about building itself being intensive, both memory and CPU (depending). Might catch some users by surprise (including resulting in a heavily swapping server if self-host allows that).
<HeyItsMeUrIRC>
phabricator looks easy enough to do