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<atmosx>
aloha
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<RubyPanther>
no, structs aren't the only game, you only pass the instance as the first argument and maintain state based on that. You can use any sort of data structure to actually store the state, as long as you can set and retrieve state based on what you pass as the instance.
<RubyPanther>
of course, if you have a struct that makes wrapping it with Ruby easier :)
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<sorbo_>
that's true. I suppose I was assuming you'd be wrapping it with Ruby at some point, since that was the earlier conversation.
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<snorkdude>
Does anyone here happen to have keys to the Foodspotting API?
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<ghanima>
hello all I am trying to parse a json object and was wondering the best way to go about it. I have dealt with simple json objects before but this is very multidimensional and very nested and not sure how to approach. I have posted the json example here http://privatepaste.com/2bca63c51c
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<ghanima>
What I am trying to do is grab a subset so I am trying to process it like I would a hash
<ghanima>
So this is an example of what I am trying to grab
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<ghanima>
#p data['gomez_data']['monitor']['test'][0] Then I just want to grab the first 3 elements
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<ghanima>
but everytime i try to traverse deeper than that the object that is returned to nil
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<cgkades>
can anyone help with crypt? i did a gem install, and i get an error for the install. OS=Centos 6.3
<cgkades>
require 'crypt/blowfish' fails
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<TheEmpty>
what is the error on the install?
<TheEmpty>
Did you install all the dependencies? DId you read the readme?
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<ghanima>
hello all I am trying to parse a json object and was wondering the best way to go about it. I have dealt with simple json objects before but this is very multidimensional and very nested and not sure how to approach. I have posted the json example here http://privatepaste.com/2bca63c51c
<ghanima>
data['gomez_data']['monitor']['test'][0] Then I just want to grab the first 3 elements
<ghanima>
but everytime i try to traverse deeper than that the object that is returned to nil
<ghanima>
any thoughts
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<IceDragon>
ghanima is the target object a Hash or an Array?
<ghanima>
IceDragon: Note that I converted this to json from XML because nokogiri was not an option
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<IceDragon>
I would avoid nesting more than 3 times
<IceDragon>
[x][y][z] # => object
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<ghanima>
IceDragon: I am open to suggestions but when i converted the XML to json that's what was produced not sure if there is a way to shorten it?
<_FBi>
Q: Before my login screen appears, I just noticed a ruby error. However, the error msg was too quick I couldn't read it. Is there anyway, I could get the message?
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<_FBi>
dmesg didn't show anything
<IceDragon>
split it into seperate files by dumping the sub-hashes
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<ghanima>
IceDragon: Just so I follow you I should take every sub-hash and put it into a file and then process the file result
<IceDragon>
ghanima: for instance if gomez_data is the only element in the top hash, then you can drop it into a file by it self
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<IceDragon>
:O Just cut it down as much as possible, so you can pin point exactly what you want.
<ghanima>
IceDragon: so do I just loop through the entire object and do Conditional checks for index key values?
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<IceDragon>
yeah
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<IceDragon>
if the object is a hash, search it again, and if not dump it, and if its nil, ignore it.
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<IceDragon>
sorry gonna be AFK for about 20 minutes..
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<nathancahill>
does anyone here use cucumber?
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<nathancahill>
just starting to learn it.. not sure if "sould" is a typo for "should"
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<IceDragon>
I remember accidently installing at one point
<maqr>
somewhat related, can someone explain to me why the 'thin' site shows 3 instances running as the default configuration? isn't the entire point of eventmachine that you shouldn't need multiple processes?
<IceDragon>
its an illusion.
<IceDragon>
"you" don't need multiple processes.
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<IceDragon>
"it" will make them as needed.
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<maqr>
IceDragon: i've gotten a lot of dodgy answers to this question so far, but yours is by far the strangest.. can you elaborate? :P
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<IceDragon>
me? Actually I have no idea what I'm saying.
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<maqr>
:(
<IceDragon>
But I think its along the lines of performance
<ryanf>
maqr: no, I don't think that's true of eventmachine
<IceDragon>
:) EM is fast for 2 things: Its written in C and it make use of threads/processes
<maqr>
somebody said that you should have one thin per cpu, but '3' is a silly number for that
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<maqr>
IceDragon: sure, but why 3? why not 1? or 20?
<IceDragon>
:O Dunno, not sure you had something extra opened?
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<IceDragon>
or a Zombie?
<ryanf>
I'm pretty sure eventmachine is designed as a single-threaded event loop, like node and redis and nginx and whatever
<ryanf>
and therefore can't use multiple cpus
<maqr>
ryanf: that sort of makes sense (though i'm not sure why coroutines couldn't be farmed out to a second cpu)... but still, why 3 and not 30?
<ryanf>
havenn: he's talking about using thin, not directly building on eventmachine
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<maqr>
havenn: already there... my goal is to write a chat server that uses long polling, but i haven't started coding yet, just trying to figure out what the platform is
<havenn>
ryanf: Ahh.
<maqr>
ryanf: if you start reading about all this long polling stuff, thin is by far winning in the blogosphere... not sure if it's actually any good though, i'm new at all this
<maqr>
havenn: oh man, that's built on ragel, that's some seriously crazy stuff
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<ryanf>
they're all built on ragel
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<ryanf>
pretty much all the ruby webserver stole mongrel's ragel parser
<ryanf>
*webservers
<ryanf>
havenn: reel is neat but pretty low-level
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<ryanf>
and its not being rack-based can make it kind of painful to work with, since you can't just drop in stuff from the rack ecosystem
<maqr>
neat, i did not know that
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<maqr>
hmm, there's also this unicorn thing
<ryanf>
you don't want to use unicorn for this
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<maqr>
ryanf: why's that? shouldn't all rack servers be about the same to work with?
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<maqr>
the puma docs look very reasonable, in that they use a unix socket and 1 puma server instead of multiple behind an http proxy like thin
<ryanf>
maqr: unicorn doesn't do any concurrency within each process. each process only serves one request at a time
<maqr>
:o
<ryanf>
which makes it really bad for long-polling
<ryanf>
it's fine as long as you don't have any slow clients (so you're supposed to put nginx or whatever in front of it to buffer requests)
<ryanf>
but you don't want to use it in cases where you hold a connection open
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<maqr>
ryanf: so if my goal is to have a lot of users connected to something but sending/receiving very little data, puma and thin are the goto options?
<ryanf>
that is my understanding, yeah
<ryanf>
or maybe rainbows?
<ryanf>
I don't really understand what rainbows' deal is though
<maqr>
this whole ecosystem of server names sounds completely ridiculous, unicorns and rainbows everywhere
<maqr>
i'll just pick one and go with it, i have no idea what i'm doing anyway :P
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<aedorn>
I love Rainbows!
<shevy>
IndentationError: unexpected indent
<shevy>
I FUCKING HATE FUCKING PYTHON
<_FBi>
yes, that can get annoying
<aedorn>
shevy: at least it tells you it was unexpected
<shevy>
now I have to learn it for one class
<shevy>
but I cant just copy paste :(
<shevy>
lol aedorn
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<aedorn>
my coworker only knew Python. I always asked him why he didn't read the errors from Ruby because they told you rather well what went wrong. So then I started using Python and realized the errors are about as useful as an ice cube in an inferno.
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<shevy>
hehe
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<MattRb>
Is there a Ruby tutorial for those who are proficient programmers in other languages? I find only tutorials that assume no procedural programming knowledge.
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<Quadlex>
MattRb: Hmm. What an interesting question. I don't know one but would be curious to see what you find
<MattRb>
It sort of sucks, I'm reading through a lot of fluff that I don't really need :P
<mmokrysz>
MattRb: I thought the http://rubykoans.com/ to be quite good for that sort of thing, but it's been quite a while.
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<shevy>
hmmm
<shevy>
I am going to write an email, telling them that I can solve all tasks they give me in ruby
<shevy>
hopefully they aren't python nazis
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<aedorn>
I hate dbus so much
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<pyro111>
hi, what's the best way to add behavior to instance methods without modifying it in place, (maybe something like that: http://gist.github.com/3688671)
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<bnagy>
morning rubynauts, ltns
<bnagy>
is there a standard idiom for when a module needs to get some attribute about the object it is being mixed into? Is using an ivar really crass?
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<ryanf>
bnagy: I'd probably use an accessor instead of an ivar
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<ryanf>
just to at least pretend it's using some kind of public api
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<bnagy>
yeah, seems fair, I'll try and use self.attr for kind-of clarity
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<ryanf>
oh yeah, that would at least make it show up in the syntax highlighting
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<clocKwize>
hey guys
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<aedorn>
anyone know of any blind ruby coders?
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<Spami>
hello
<Spami>
I'm trying to create a user on my mac but it isn't working, i get the following error: createuser: could not connect to database postgres: could not connect to server: Permission denied any idea why ?
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<hoelzro>
Spami: sounds like a question for PostgreSQL folk.
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<Spami>
hoelzro, true, my bad
<hoelzro>
;)
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<csmrfx>
Simplest way to match var foo in string bar?
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<csmrfx>
(bool)
<heftig>
var foo is what?
<csmrfx>
just some string
<Muz>
/#{var}/
<heftig>
bar.include? foo
<csmrfx>
>> foo = "abb"; bar = "maijaabbaelo"; bar[/#{foo}/]
<csmrfx>
Nice, just finished simple test-scraper, no need to hand click and find in source over hundreds of pages
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<csmrfx>
ruby+nokogiri 8)
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<mdw>
its powerful :)
<csmrfx>
christo_m: aand note, nokogiri can work that xml for you
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<csmrfx>
I shouldn't have bragged
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<Hanmac>
mdw & vikhyat your both's rubycode is wrong ... i think you both should learn ruby first before try to convert C# (ugly) into Ruby (beautyful)
<csmrfx>
now open-uri breaks on 410's
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<vikhyat>
Hanmac: it is macruby, i guess 1.9.3 doesn't have they key:value named argument syntax.
<Hanmac>
vikhyat it does have, but not in this way
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<mdw>
vikhyat I saw that, having key:value named arguments would make the Objective-C to Ruby look a whole lot nicer
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* Hanmac
hate rubyMotion
<csmrfx>
For some reason open-uri gives errors on 410. Not sure why it doesn't simply return error value. What would be the simplest way to handle this? Any other, simpler, than begin-rescue-end?
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<mdw>
Hanmac why?
<csmrfx>
Is RubyMotion a bastard child of the real rubies
<csmrfx>
+?
<Hanmac>
because i does not get any benefit from it
<mdw>
Hanmac are you a mobile apps developer writing Objective-C then?
<Hanmac>
csmrfx yes it seems that they put the worst parts together
<vikhyat>
csmrfx: define "real rubies"? :)
<Hanmac>
mdw no i use C++ for my rubybindings
<csmrfx>
MRI, JRuby, RBX......
<vikhyat>
if you include macruby on that list then no, because rubymotion is built on macruby.
<mdw>
I'de hate to write Apps in C++ ;-P
<csmrfx>
I guess macruby is a real ruby
<mdw>
Much prefer Obj-C over C++
<mdw>
and Obj-C is closer to Ruby in many respects
* csmrfx
doesn't really know about RubyMotion's ... things
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<vikhyat>
mdw: the similarity between ruby and obj-c is because both were heavily inspired by smalltalk. smalltalk is pretty neat, you should check it out. :)
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<csmrfx>
mdw vikhyat if you want to know more about Smalltalk, imo it is worthwhile peeking at the smalltalk blue book
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<christo_m>
the darn thing wont let me change the port the client uses haha
<mdw>
csmrfx yes I've been aware of Smalltalk, but I'd prefer to read Ruby books for the present :)
<christo_m>
i got it working in irb, by including rubygems first, i can create the client, but i cant change the port number for whatever reason. I also cant seem to set a server, it just goes off the domain you supply
<csmrfx>
christo_m: which thing is that?
<christo_m>
csmrfx: xmpp4r
<christo_m>
some library abandoned 2 years ago
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<christo_m>
client.port is the getter, but i cant find the setter :S
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<bnagy>
def connect(host = nil, port = 5222)
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<csmrfx>
wb 8)
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<christo_m>
bnagy: how were you able to see what parameters it takes, is there something in irb you're using
<bnagy>
I looked at the source on github
<bnagy>
but I think pry might do it for you, as well
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<Hanmac>
or use the command "gem server" and read the rdoc/yard documentation
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<hackeron>
hey, I am currently sending a post request to "http://127.0.0.1:3000/trigger/" using the 'net/http' library. However I changed my rails app to use a unix socket instead, so now it's listening on unix:///tmp/XanAgent.sock -- how would I send the same POST request there instead?
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<hackeron>
I'm trying to do http = Net::HTTP.new("unix:///tmp/XanAgent.sock") but that says /usr/local/Cellar/ruby/1.9.3-p327/lib/ruby/1.9.1/net/http.rb:762:in `initialize': getaddrinfo: nodename nor servname provided, or not known (SocketError)
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<pskosinski>
ok, thanks, well… first I'll try to use what already I have. :>
<hoelzro>
nokogiri is pretty good
<hoelzro>
I can vouch for it =)
<bnagy>
the docs are shicking
<bnagy>
shocking
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<Hanmac>
rexml is so lala ... it is not bad but also not good ... i prefer nokogiri, because it could also generate code
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<christo_m>
I'm trying to use the xmpp4r library to communicate to the league of legends pvp.net servers, i can change my presence to online, but im unable to send any messages to anyone
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<christo_m>
I dont get an exception or error or anything like that, i send the message and irb returns me nil
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<hoelzro>
christo_m: you might be getting error stanzas; I'm not sure if xmpp4r subscribes you to them automatically
<nkts>
Or maybe it was working in some older ruby versions?
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<csmrfx>
well, are you running on 1.8
<nkts>
yes, 1.8 atm
<ddd>
message: is 1.9 syntax not 1.8
<csmrfx>
thats js
<csmrfx>
or is it?
<csmrfx>
hm, maybe not
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<csmrfx>
nkts: for a quick fix, try replacing ':' with =>
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<nkts>
ddd, well that makes sence if with different ruby codes works differently
<csmrfx>
in case of hashes, yes, there is a diff between 1.8 and 1.9 or newer
<csmrfx>
otoh seems your gem was not tested on 1.8, so you may not want to use it
<csmrfx>
(on 1.8)
<nkts>
but AFAIK {'a': 10} is not working on 1.8 and 1.9
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<damagednoob>
i'm trying to redirect stdout to a logger. I created a simple class to do this ( https://gist.github.com/4434699 ), but when I try and assign it to $stdout, I get this error: (Errno::EBADF) Bad file descriptor
<damagednoob>
is there an easier way to do this?
<csmrfx>
nkts: works fine in 1.9
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<csmrfx>
nkts: thats exactly the change made to hash syntax in 1.9
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<hoelzro>
damagednoob: where is that error happening?
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<grieve>
so essentially you only want to return the attribute values for the first object?
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<grieve>
and nokogiri is returning the attributes for all objects?
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<pskosinski>
Yes
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<pskosinski>
Always I can convert Nokogori's rsult to string and cut…
<csmrfx>
what? xpath? whats the prob?
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<grieve>
my xpath knowledge is limited but surely you would have to specify that you only want the first object? /whois-resources/objects/object/attributes[position() = 1]/attribute/@value
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<grieve>
that seems to imply that you only want the first attribute
<pskosinski>
yes…
<pskosinski>
Ah… I forget.
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<pskosinski>
Because I tried also not /whois-resources/objects/object/attributes[position() = 1]/attribute/@value but /whois-resources/objects/object/attributes[position() = 1]/attribute
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<pskosinski>
Then REXML is returning what expected, but Nokogiri is returning all "attributes" object too
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<pskosinski>
Looks like REXML has problem with getting attributes and Nokogiri with selecting one element of array :(
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<csmrfx>
perhaps you want to preprocess results with xsltproc
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<csmrfx>
run a system call to it
<csmrfx>
if you just want to extract data it is solid and fast
<csmrfx>
can also be used to transform docs just fine
<banisterfiend>
csmrfx: sup carl
<csmrfx>
Dr. Banner I presume
<bnagy>
sup banisterfiend
<banisterfiend>
bnagy: sup nagdogg
<banisterfiend>
bnagy: not a lot, enjoying the dutch winter
<bnagy>
how you finding it?
<banisterfiend>
it's hot weather right now, never less than 8 celcius
<banisterfiend>
hottish*
<bnagy>
pff that's not winter
<banisterfiend>
yeah, not sure what's going on
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<bnagy>
we're in our last week in Nepal
<banisterfiend>
i like it here, very quaint, cobblestone streets, old stone buildings, bakeries eveywhere
<bnagy>
which city you in?
<banisterfiend>
bnagy: then back to australia?
<banisterfiend>
bnagy: leiden
<bnagy>
ahh leidin nice
<bnagy>
*en
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<pskosinski>
Ok, thank you all, I'll just use string functions, seems simplest. :<
<bnagy>
we'll go to chiangmai and chill until next mission is finalised
<banisterfiend>
bnagy: where you going?
<banisterfiend>
ah ok
<grieve>
pskosinski: I'm just trying this myself so I'll give you a shout in a few minutes
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<pskosinski>
grieve: Ok, thanks :)
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<csmrfx>
pskosinski: for xpath debugging, you want #xml
<grieve>
pskosinski: does this xpath work for you? /whois-resources/objects/object[position() = 1]/attributes/attribute/@value
<csmrfx>
different xpath implementations may have different methods for grabbing the attribute value
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<csmrfx>
Why does open-uri literally block all of my computer, despite the fact that cpu usage is only around 20%?
<grieve>
block all of your computer? like mouse movements etc? :S
<csmrfx>
And how do I make it stop? Now it cause shh conns to drop, browser cannot fetch pages while my ruby-crawler is running, blocking everything else
<csmrfx>
*ssh conns
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<csmrfx>
grieve: blocks everything else. Even ctrl+C does nothing until it is finished
<grieve>
that's scary..
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<csmrfx>
It probably has something to do with open-uri and nokogiri hogging everything with MRI
<csmrfx>
well, hogging IO-wise
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<csmrfx>
hm, perhaps insert a second or two of waiting between different documents...
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<csmrfx>
...or maybe it is caused by the page loads being inside begin-rescue-end?
<grieve>
but how can a single ruby process possibly make everything else hang? :S
<hoelzro>
csmrfx, grieve: if I had to guess, I would say it's probably taking up all of the system's memory
<heftig>
objectivemo: the former are scoped to just the class object. instances have no access
<pskosinski>
I see problem.
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<objectivemo>
I thought an instance variable of the class object is the same as the class instance of an instance of the class
<heftig>
objectivemo: the latter are scoped to the class, its subclasses, its instances, and the subclass instances
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<pskosinski>
<csmrfx> different xpath implementations may have different methods for grabbing the attribute value <= Well… specification is kinda strict… isn't it? So should work. And yes, I asked on #xml and I get answer that my XPath should work.
<objectivemo>
So how do I access a class variable outside of the class methods?
<heftig>
objectivemo: you mean a class instance variable?
<grieve>
pskosinski: glad it worked :) just had your position requirement in the wrong place
<csmrfx>
I inserted "sleep 2" in the loop between page loads (and closed all the dozen windows in chrome, now I can irc while it runs)
<objectivemo>
heftig: I mean @@v
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<heftig>
objectivemo: that just works
<heftig>
@@v = "foobar"; def m; p @@v; end
<csmrfx>
pskosinski: specification is strictish, but still, different xslt/xpath implementations use different syntax for manipuling attributes
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<csmrfx>
hoelzro: good guess!
<heftig>
@v could be accessed via def self.m; p @v; end
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<csmrfx>
I think it might have been just that. Delay gives GC time to reap all the used DOM-trees from the memory.
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<pskosinski>
grieve: I'm not sure if it's wrong… I think taht it's good. :< But I was not reading specification so no idea. Anyway, in REXML, was, kinda, working, selecting what I wanted, besides attributes of ndoes…
<pskosinski>
nodes *
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<csmrfx>
pskosinski: more tips: use xmlstarlet to test your xpaths
<pskosinski>
It should choose all matching paths from and /whois-resources/objects/object/attributes[1] and /whois-resources/objects/object/attributes[2] matches, imho…
<pskosinski>
ok…
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<csmrfx>
pskosinski: something like $ xml sel -t -m "//@category" -v "." -n books.xml
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<mpfundstein_home>
how do you guys handle server side development when the server has no GUI and you want to use sublime on your desktop? coding, syncing, launching, fixing a bug, syncing, launching again?
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<hoelzro>
mpfundstein_home: I don't do this myself, but I know many people who use SSHFS
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<GeekOnCoffee>
mpfundstein_home: I used to have that problem… I learned to either do local development or use vim
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<objectivemo>
vim is not hard to learn for basic use
<objectivemo>
learning it with a few shortcuts would take a couple of hours and you are up and running
<brendan_>
once you use it and get a little cheatsheet for the basics its not bad
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<brendan_>
i use vim pretty much all the time now, but only stick with basics for it
<brendan_>
i use macvim + nerdtree on this machine
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<objectivemo>
http://vim-adventures.com, excellent way to learn vim if you want to try mpfundstein_home
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<objectivemo>
brendan_: nothing beats cmd+p (or ctrl + p if you are not on mac) for opening a file and finding functions in sublime text
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<mpfundstein_home>
i know vim since ages. i did a lot of dev in it. but sublime is just a bit more elegant :-)
<mpfundstein_home>
and i dont want to use vim now :-) i organzied sublime, configured it and really love it
<mpfundstein_home>
sshfs, i check what this is
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<mpfundstein_home>
i ll probabl write me a small script which scp's the file sto the server, logs in and executes the ruby process as a daemon.
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<hoelzro>
mpfundstein_home: is this a web app?
<hoelzro>
I'd bet there's a Ruby web app server that is inotify-aware
<hoelzro>
so once the code changes, you don't need to restart the application yourself
<objectivemo>
develop locally and just push w/e I want
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<mpfundstein_home>
ah thats looks good thx
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<mpfundstein_home>
i ll set up rsync , than i can ssh to the server, monitor my logs, restart etc. and pull when i need updated code.
<mpfundstein_home>
if rsync + ssh wouldnt be such a pain to configure :-)
<csmrfx>
what?
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<csmrfx>
not unless you need to setup server
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<mpfundstein_home>
well actually i confused it with cron + rsync + ssh
<mpfundstein_home>
because thats really shitty.
<csmrfx>
what you really want is git
<csmrfx>
and a local or dev server
<mpfundstein_home>
but than i'd have to push on one side, pull on the other side
<mpfundstein_home>
that are 2 steps.
<csmrfx>
you work on the local/dev and once tests pass, you push to the git @ "server" or have a post commit script that does it for you
<mpfundstein_home>
with rsync i have 1 step
<mpfundstein_home>
csmrf: the problem is, my dev servers NEEDS a public ip
<csmrfx>
hm, how's that a problem?
<hoelzro>
well, you could set up a staging remote
<mpfundstein_home>
csmrf: because my local servers sit behind my firewall and i need port routing to come through. the api i am working wiht (client side) doesnt support that yet
<hoelzro>
so git push staging pushes to your dev server
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<mpfundstein_home>
thats why i cant develop locally... i need to be on my amazon instance or another exposed server
<csmrfx>
mpfundstein_home: ok, I see: your firewall cannot be configured (or you cant have a dev "cloud instance")
<mpfundstein_home>
that as well
<csmrfx>
lol just sayin
<mpfundstein_home>
ill use rsync . is actually the easiest way and trigger it from the server.
<csmrfx>
Anyone setup Amazon instances for devving? I am interested in how much it *actually* costs per month (for 1-2 devs working on code)
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<mpfundstein_home>
i dont know the cypers. financial department does this :-) sry
<csmrfx>
(and yes, I mean something that runs ruby)
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<mpfundstein_home>
s/cypers/numbers
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<csmrfx>
If I look at IO+disk use alone, it seems really cheap.
<csmrfx>
Just wondering, if it really ends up costing an arm and leg: many people parrot the "cloud hosting is expensive" mantra
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<mpfundstein_home>
well, if you use a micro with one core, than its pretty cheap. but if you want stronger ones you pay. and than i goes quite fast.
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<csmrfx>
banister_: the upper version is less verbose
<mpfundstein_home>
i can recall that one dev here rented a 4 core instance, and after 1 week or s.th. the bill was already 40 euro :-) (which can be cheap/expensiv\e , i dont know)
<csmrfx>
banister_: (so that). Also didn't realize you can ensure without begin + rescue
<Hanmac>
does someone have exp with IP.reopen? is it possible to revert the work?
<banister_>
csmrfx: u can in a method definition
<ddd>
csmrfx: I'm using an AWS micro which I share with a couple other guys for coding and we're still in the free zone. Not exceptionally fast, but it works. That and one db micro instance (mysql)
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<ddd>
csmrfx: we're still in the 1-year-free program so not sure if that will help you since you're looking for real-world cost per month
<csmrfx>
ddd: yeah that sounds exactly what I am looking for, a little dinky place to run some ruby tests from and dev funny side projects
<ddd>
yeah then that should work for you.
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<ddd>
not expecting heavy traffic right? as in an OSS with frontend site that craploads of folks would most likely use enmasse.
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<ddd>
we've 3 or 4 git repos on there that we all pull from for diff projs but nothing intense.
<chrisr>
eka: ..so you could extend it and stop the "included do ; end" block from happening? is that what you mean?
<rismoney>
bean, i am already case...
<rismoney>
thats redundant.
<eka>
chrisr: no… why you would do that?… I meant that if you are coding your own version… that's not needed until someone is including it… so
<bean>
rismoney: I guess I don't really understand what you're trying to accomplish without seeing some real working code.
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<chrisr>
eka: my own version of the modules within the "included do ;end" block or the outer module?
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<eka>
chrisr: lost me there
<eka>
chrisr: still what is the problem with that included?
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<nkts>
zooz, {}.kind_of?(Hash)
<zooz>
nkts, that's not very correct
<chrisr>
eka: Well I understand that the included block will only be "run" when it is actually needed, but I don't get why you would want that.
<eka>
chrisr: you can ask the dev… and if you do, please let me know also :)
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<chrisr>
eka: lol, ok np
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<shevy>
Ruby. Must. Become. More. Popular.
<eka>
shevy: It. Is. Not?
<shevy>
eka dunno, I see so many courses with python or java...
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<eka>
shevy: courses where? AFAIK python doesn't have something like codeschool, peepcode, etc…
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<eka>
shevy: railscasts
<jacktrick>
Hi, I've been having problems with ruby 1.9.3p362 and was wondering if anyone else has run into the issue
<rismoney>
could i use eval?
<jacktrick>
Whenever I try to run a ruby script I get a load error with some garbage characters like ruby: No such file or directory -- � � (LoadError)
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<jacktrick>
every time I try, those characters change
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<Hanmac>
jacktrick, p362 is bugy
<shevy>
eka for instance in a "bioengineering" course... it has like 20% informatics, and from these, most are java, python and "basics of unix" ... zero ruby. and that is just one example, everytime there is informatics, it is either C, Java, C++ or python :(
<eka>
shevy: you mean in like college or something?
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<jacktrick>
Hanmac, so it's not just me? Good.
<jacktrick>
and thanks
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<shevy>
eka yeah
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* Hanmac
thinks if he could be a good ruby teacher ... :P
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<eka>
shevy: I see… can't say about that… but in the interwebs I feel that ruby has a richer ecosystem
<shevy>
I'll tell them to stop bothering me, I can solve all programming related tasks with ruby, but I guess they will insist on python java etc... because everyone else has to go through the same crap :(
<bean>
rismoney: can you re-explain what you're attemping to accomplish?
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<bean>
rismoney: because I think you're thinking about the problem in a rather backwards way.
<shevy>
eka yeah, perhaps it also depends on where someone is. perhaps ruby is more widely used in the USA?
<shevy>
or hopefully in japan hahahaha
<eka>
shevy: dunno I'm in Peru :)
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<Myconix>
I'm in US
<eka>
shevy: btw I'm a python dev trying to learn some ruby
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<shevy>
eka aha cool
<shevy>
waaaah!!!!
<shevy>
python!
<shevy>
they are EVERYWHERE
<eka>
lol
<shevy>
well, I have to say, I'd rather learn python, than go back to perl
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<eka>
shevy: but I'm getting to the dark side
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<eka>
right
<shevy>
the only thing I really got from the old perl books were regexes
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<shevy>
they were nicely explained :)
<shevy>
although I still don't grok lookahead and lookbehinds
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<eka>
shevy: I don't try to understand them either
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<tommylommykins>
lookahead and lookbehind adds a lot of white noise to regex literals considering what they do imo
<RubyPanther>
Aelfinn are best ignored, instead of worried about. Just don't go into their tower, or read their code.
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<shevy>
Hanmac here knows lookahead and lookbehind very well
<RubyPanther>
tommylommykins: If they are too noisy for you, fine, but those optimizations are certainly not "white" noise.
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<tommylommykins>
RubyPanther: I don't disagree :)
<RubyPanther>
They are at worst noisy black magic, but often, practical if ugly optimizations.
<tommylommykins>
I think you already committed to a lot of white noise when you decide to use regular expressions in the first place :P
<tommylommykins>
you might as well go all the way.... :D
<RubyPanther>
if it is white noise to you, then you presumably have no reason to choose them
<RubyPanther>
what would "all the way" be, recursive descent?
<tommylommykins>
go all the way == commit fully to using them
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<RubyPanther>
I recommend committing fully them whenever you have strings and have more than 1 question (or change) to their state
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<tommylommykins>
RubyPanther: what about using regexes over String#include? if the matcher string is a string literal?
<tommylommykins>
it annoys me sometimes when I see.... "some_string" =~ /string/
<tommylommykins>
why not "some_string".include? "string" ?
<RubyPanther>
yeah what this, Perl?!
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<RubyPanther>
But, Matz clearly saw some value in Perl shorthand. I don't like =~ because if I need the match data I have to either make changes to something that shouldn't need changing or else use a global icky
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<shevy>
the main advantage of =~ is that it is so short
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<Hanmac>
hm i benchmarked it ... in one test =~ was faster ... in the others it was include? ...
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<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, ruby was originally supposed to be a little bit like a much better perl
<Hanmac>
imo an ruby is more worth than a pearl :P
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<csmrfx>
perl is more like dirty perlite than pearl
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<emocakes_>
well perl is pretty good
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<jrajav>
Perl is so fun to hate, please don't make us consider it objectively. :(
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<green_leaf>
lovin' me some ruby
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<shevy>
emocakes I like emocakes more than perl
<shevy>
Hanmac I was always told that .include? is faster because =~ needs to call the expensive regex engine
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<Hanmac>
shevy the only stuff faster than include is start_with? and end_with?
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<shevy>
cool
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<RubyPanther>
It was Larry Wall who said if you want to use OOP all the time, Ruby is better than Perl. That was the first time I even heard of Ruby.
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<matti>
shevy: Regexp is not that heavy in Ruby.
<RubyPanther>
He went on to give a defense of procedural programming. I just waited until English books came out.
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* matti
is enjoying Go as of late.
<yfeldblum>
both styles have their places
<RubyPanther>
Sure, it was 4 or 5 years after I switched to writing apps in Ruby before I quit writing Perl one-liners in the shell
<emocakes>
is there a cure for PHP RubyPanther?
<emocakes>
I suffer from it
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<davidcelis>
emocakes: roobie
<RubyPanther>
emocakes: Just say no. That is all there is to it.
<yfeldblum>
emocakes, a little bit of ruby, a little bit of C#, and a little bit of haskell
<emocakes>
I've tried that panther, but it always comes back, just asking me for one more time, and that it will change
<emocakes>
it never does ;(
<emocakes>
yfeldblum, C# is nice, ruby as well, never tried haskell
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<RubyPanther>
A programming language written by a guy who hates programming language, and programmers generally, written for people who really can't be bothered with all the CS stuff. I can understand expecting it to have changes over time, I just can't understand why you'd ever expect it not to suck.
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<shevy>
emocakes the transition to ruby could be a lot nicer if ruby would try to eliminate php
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<emocakes>
shevy, unfortunately i work in the same company as PHP :(. no one wants to fire PHP because they are too lazy / 'dont have enough time' to hire ruby
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<shevy>
well, they have a good argument - what works, works. even if it sucks
<RubyPanther>
Oh good, if they don't have time for Ruby, then all the Ruby programmers are safe from their bad management
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<shevy>
so ruby would have to be significantly much better in order to provide a compelling reason to transition to it
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<shevy>
RubyPanther that's a chicken egg problem... if they have success using PHP, they have more need for more php programmers
<yfeldblum>
ultimately, it's the software authors, not the language
<jrajav>
Unfortunately, language quality is not a function of syntax and semantics
<jrajav>
Nor is quality a well-defined concept
<jrajav>
Thus: Blogs.
<emocakes>
shevy, well from my pov, ruby would crap over php, even nodejs for the main part would crap over php, people are just too lazy
<emocakes>
:| we run production server on ubuntu. I think that says enough
<yfeldblum>
but good programmers hate bad languages; if you want the good programmers, you'll have to entice them with money, beer, or the freedom to use good languages and not bad languages
<RubyPanther>
shevy: lizard eggs are no problem for chickens
<yfeldblum>
emocakes, that a problem?
<emocakes>
well, if you ask people who use gentoo, then yes :P
<jrajav>
yfeldblum: Was that a response to my statement? Because it's answering an entirely different question.
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<yfeldblum>
jrajav, no
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<yfeldblum>
emocakes, and what is the nature of that problem?
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<emocakes>
which problem yfeldblum?
<RubyPanther>
I don't need to look at PHP to know if it is a good language, all I have to do is listen to why it was written, what problem does the creator claim to solve with the tool... and the problem he wants to solve is programming for people who can't be bother to learn programming but want a half-ass language they can bang their head on anyways. Presumably because they're too cheap to hire a programmer, and not ______ enough to learn "real" l
<RubyPanther>
anguages.
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<yfeldblum>
emocakes, using ubuntu
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<shevy>
the origins of php are ok, all the scripting languages do that
<shevy>
they empower not-so-supersmart people to program with ease
<RubyPanther>
Ruby is growing, if you're stuck writing PHP at work, just learn Ruby and change jobs, lots of people are always hiring for Ruby
<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, or you can save yourself the 5-minute investigation and just look at it :D
<emocakes>
yfeldblum, well using a stock standard ubuntu 'server' install to run a production system, is imo, a bit slack
<emocakes>
its like, you cant be bothered to waste time, so just throw ubuntu on it
<RubyPanther>
Nonsense, Perl was written because awk and sed just ran out of steam and Larry Wall needed a _better_ language. And Ruby was written because Matz wanted a language that makes programmers happier.
<yfeldblum>
emocakes, "slack" is vague, as is "stock" ... what are the actual problems with it? (you may want to tell heroku)
<RubyPanther>
Compare the intent of Matz, wanting programmers to be happy, and the PHP creator, wanting to do away with all that language nonsense that programmers always want and he hated.
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<emocakes>
im sure heroku isn't just running it as is yfeldblum :)
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<shevy>
ruby as a language is much better than php ever will be
<shevy>
but it is too complex
<yfeldblum>
emocakes, you never know; i may be running stock ubuntu-hardy because it's been out for a while and probably stable
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<hoelzro>
shevy: Ruby is too complex? or PHP?
<RubyPanther>
yfeldblum: I refuse to look. The one time I accepted a PHP bugfix job, I just ignored the language, blurred my eyes, and glanced at whatever was sticking out the side of the algorithm
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<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, :D
<shevy>
hoelzro ruby
<shevy>
PHP is not complex, only ugly
<shevy>
it took me longer to really understand ruby, and even now I cant say I understand it that well
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<shevy>
does php have procs? what is a lambda... what are blocks... how many ways of eval exist... how do I use send, method_missing... what is set_trace_var ...
<shevy>
and the most important question:
<ruzu>
blocks!
<shevy>
why do so many ruby docs suck?
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<shevy>
especially in 2004. nowadays it is ok
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<ruzu>
if blocks were women i would have lots of child support to pay
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<RubyPanther>
shevy: because the programmer being happy does NOT mean they are writing docs! lol
<RubyPanther>
Ruby isn't commercial enough to just hire technical writers
<Virunga>
Hi guys, what's the method of the class File which returns the path of a file given the name of the file and the location where to start?
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<ruzu>
expand_path?
<Hanmac>
shey what about respond_to_missing? :P
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<yfeldblum>
Virunga, Pathname#relative_path_to
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<yfeldblum>
shevy, ruby is fundamentally a message-passing language, not a class-has-instance-methods language
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<Virunga>
ruzu: expand_path works. I though the starting point should be a dir, thanks
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<Virunga>
yfeldblum: thank you.
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<shevy>
RubyPanther yeah... I always disliked the way how languages treat documentation
<Hanmac>
yfeldblum: you mean relative_path_from
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<shevy>
I'd like to have a language where documentation would be on the same level as code
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<shevy>
or perhaps even better, where documentation itself would be the code
<yfeldblum>
Hanmac, right
<RubyPanther>
Perl documentation is highly optimized, complete, correct.
<Hanmac>
shevy: 0==0 ? :D
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<yfeldblum>
shevy, no such thing
<yfeldblum>
shevy, just write clean, intention-revealing code :D
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<shevy>
yfeldblum yes but that would lead to people never commenting anything
<RubyPanther>
Yep, that is the programmer's answer, don't write code
<ruzu>
ruby is a magic language for wizards and hobbits
<RubyPanther>
er, don't write docs, write code
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<yfeldblum>
shevy, comment everything that isn't clear and intention-revealing :D
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<shevy>
and when I look at code from other people, it's not easy to understand what is going on
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<RubyPanther>
if your code isn't your docs, refactor three times and add 7 comments
<yfeldblum>
shevy, and write doc-comments for API classes and methods
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<ruzu>
shevy, well, ruby is a very hipster-filled community, and helping others understand you/your code goes against hipsterism 101
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<RubyPanther>
I don't write docs, and I don't write tests. I'm a programmer, I am not a technical writer or a QA monkey.
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<shevy>
ruzu the hipsters weren't there in 2004 :\
<shevy>
tests are a problem
<shevy>
if a dynamic language requires tests, you lose the advantage of it being dynamic
<RubyPanther>
That's the year I switched I can verify that
<ruzu>
"I don't write tests" -RubyPanther
<shevy>
you need to write perfect code without tests
<RubyPanther>
We were so far from hip, we were deploying rails as a CGI and saying, "well it is usually fast enough for in-house tools"
<yfeldblum>
shevy, programs require test suites, regardless of the style in which they are written
<RubyPanther>
Uncle Bob says the reason to write tests is so that you're not afraid to make changes. I'm never afraid of my own code. If you can only remember part of what you're doing, or you insist on having more than one person working inside the same interfaces, then I can see the utility.
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<yfeldblum>
shevy, they're only required if you want some way to verify that the code works correctly; if you don't care whether it works correctly, you don't need a test suite
<shevy>
living organisms don't need tests. their genomes are the working code
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<shevy>
yfeldblum yeah, for verifications and to ensure that it is reliable, that is ok
<RubyPanther>
You don't need tests to verify if the code works correctly, that can be done by a human
<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, humans routinely fail at that
<RubyPanther>
I'll be honest, I've got a QA guy that can break my apps more effectively than any test suite I've ever seen.
<ruzu>
how posh.
<shevy>
RubyPanther copying DNA in organisms has a failure rate, mistakes happen, but that doesn't stop organisms from populating the world all the time
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<RubyPanther>
I guess it depends on your code. To me the challenge is, I know there _has_ to be a bug in there somewhere, but I coded defensively so good luck finding it. I celebrate when it is found because I knew it had to be there.
<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, breaking your app in new ways is fantastic; but once he broke your app, you might like to write a test case that simulates what your QA guy did as a regression test to make sure that failure doesn't happen again
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<shevy>
I dream of a new language unifying ruby's elegance in syntax, erlang's idea about realiability, and C's speed
<shevy>
:(
<RubyPanther>
If I write tests, they're going to make the same assumptions *I* would make, and they'll miss any interesting bugs. They bugs they'll catch are ones that are from sloppiness. And those usually make the program crash anyways, or at least, the cause is usually obvious in the log.
<yfeldblum>
shevy, so long as you don't care what program you end up with, i guess that's OK
<shevy>
oh... and it must have high quality documentation too
<shevy>
yfeldblum, I dunno, ruby has made me so picky... I think the syntax of most languages really stinks
<ruzu>
sounds like you don't write anything very complex.
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<shevy>
the only strange part is, that I began to like {}
<shevy>
even in C
<shevy>
def foo { # here is the start
<shevy>
} # here is the end
<RubyPanther>
regression is a legit reason for tests, note that they're being written _after_ the code, and they're not testing what your code is expected to actually do. They test only the things you already decided your code shouldn't do, to make sure it still isn't doing them.
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<hoelzro>
shevy: I'm surprised that Go doesn't appeal to you
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<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, is this based on you building/maintaining small apps or large apps?
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<shevy>
hoelzro truthfully I have not given it a real try yet... I don't have a really big antipathy either, so perhaps I'll give it a try at a later time. it seems more interesting than java
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<shevy>
the only thing that really gets me off is dart
<RubyPanther>
small, large apps are in need of extraction
<RubyPanther>
large apps are doing too many things
<raywan>
Flag for installing to ~ in gem rc is --local or --user-install
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<shevy>
RubyPanther yeah... but large apps are what many people want
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<shevy>
or rather, very *good* apps
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<RubyPanther>
who wants these large apps?
<shevy>
normal people!
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<RubyPanther>
No they don't
<RubyPanther>
The demand is for simple, boneheaded apps
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<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, suppose you have a very large app subsequently extracted out into a dozen large apps?
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<RubyPanther>
If you're writing a word processor (and not an inline text input editor) then yeah, you have to have a zillion tests for complicated formatting
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<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, small apps can usually be verified by a human with a reasonable chance of success; but with any larger app, that's no longer the case
<RubyPanther>
yfeldblum: suppose you do. Then you also have a whole QA department.
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<RubyPanther>
That the QA monkeys should be writing tests and scripts should, IMO, be of little concern or interest to the original programmer.
<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, you want them to keep finding stupid bugs just because you changed a line of code and tested all the things you thought were related?
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<shevy>
stupid bugs should never be a possibility
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<yfeldblum>
shevy, why?
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<RubyPanther>
Nor should the original programmer be so arrogant to think that in the first place he'll write bugs, have oversights, and in the second place, that his tests will somehow make different oversights and actually catch bugs. Won't happen.
<shevy>
yfeldblum because a language shouldn't allow it and a programmer should not need have to worry about stupid bugs (simple bugs) ever
<RubyPanther>
You _can_ write your regression tests, that makes sense.
* Hanmac
thinks that i should write a bot that turns Code into tests
<yfeldblum>
shevy, that's nonsense
<csmrfx>
you should write tests that turn into code...
<RubyPanther>
The idea that a person will write the test _first_, and somehow anticipate the mistakes they're going to make... skip the test, remember not to make the mistake. ;)
<shevy>
you can have perfectly well working programs without any tests
<csmrfx>
that is not the point of tests, shevy
<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, writing test cases simulating common paths through your code will tell you if a one-line change somewhere breaks things you had no idea were related
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<shevy>
then why would you use tests if they would not cover every possible bug?
<csmrfx>
Tests provide *software products* and their makers with solid ground.
<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, it may not tell you that, but isn't it better to have these early-warning signs?
<shevy>
ok so they can sell "hey, I have tests so my program is better than this other program"
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<csmrfx>
shevy: why would you use tools if they do not cover every possible application?
<csmrfx>
shevy: why would you eat food if it doesn't cover all your nutrition needs?
<csmrfx>
etc etc
<yfeldblum>
shevy, you can indeed, if they're small; but the larger a program gets, the less reliable is non-automated testing
<RubyPanther>
I agree with Uncle Bob, the reason to write tests for your own code is if you are scared of it and want to be able to dive into refactoring a method without worrying that you'll break something. I don't find that approach useful, I'd rather try to break my code into pieces I can understand, isolate things behind interfaces so that no part is hard for me to understand, and then of course I can make changes without fear.
<shevy>
especially if a test is about proper data types, then you could stop using dynamic languages and just use a language with static types
<csmrfx>
8)
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<Hanmac>
or translated: Tests are "SnakeOil" :P
<shevy>
yfeldblum yes, I agree about complexity
<csmrfx>
Tests are great, whether you have yet to grok that or not
<yfeldblum>
shevy, that helps a little, but not completely
<Lars_G>
hmm
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<shevy>
csmrfx wow what a statement, your opinion is perfect, every other opinion is not :)
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<csmrfx>
If money is involved, or developers nerves, write tests.
<RubyPanther>
yfeldblum: If you have to test because you may or may not have side effects, my advice, never have side effects and take them seriously, and you won't hit that often enough to worry about it
<shevy>
I thought ruby emphasized the "there is more than one way to look at something"
<shevy>
notepad is the only real editor (ok, it is ed... but still)
<davidcelis>
tests are a way of life
<csmrfx>
you use tests for *limited set of problems*
<shevy>
davidcelis I like that statement :)
<RubyPanther>
shevy: The Ruby way is, there is a small number of reasonable ways of looking at things, but usually one is more correct and should be the default. The others should be advised against but not actively prevented. They might make a programmer happy, after all.
<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, these are good things to have in many parts of the code, but the entire application can't be stateless and side-effect-free because it'll be useless
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<RubyPanther>
I didn't say stateless
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<shevy>
did he say stateless!!!
<shevy>
HANG HIM!
<csmrfx>
I love it when after changing something fundamental, instead of guessing and fingernail-chewing, I can just run some unit ad webtests. (rarely)
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<RubyPanther>
yfeldblum: You're so far lost, you're conflating side effects with outputs!
<davidcelis>
Infinite Stateless Machines?
<csmrfx>
s/ad/and/
<shevy>
csmrfx, ok but do you get a warm fuzzy feeling when doing that inside? ;)
<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, state is a side-effect
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<csmrfx>
shevy: not necessarily but I sleep better
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<RubyPanther>
yfeldblum: if you go clear to the ends of definitions in order to actively blur the lines, you only communicate less.
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<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, sorry?
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<csmrfx>
and now, 17 minutes to nine my working day is finally done, bye!
<RubyPanther>
"side effects" in programming generally has a very specific meaning, it doesn't work to get philosophical and try to interpret the meaning of the words more or less broadly. State is a different concept than side effects.
<RubyPanther>
Which is to say, "side effects" is not a synonym for "effects."
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<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, In computer science, a function or expression is said to have a side effect if, in addition to returning a value, it also modifies some state or has an observable interaction with calling functions or the outside world.
<shevy>
yfeldblum careful, this is how RubyPanther got himself banned from #ruby-lang ;)
<RubyPanther>
Right...
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<RubyPanther>
so when you assign the result to state, you have no side effect.
<shevy>
egospider ran out of arguments
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<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, i don't know what that means
<yfeldblum>
shevy, lulz
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<RubyPanther>
yfeldblum: take for example foo = "Foo" ; count = bar(foo) # you have state already! side effects is if something detectable from the outside changes when you call bar() for example if after calling bar(foo), now the value of foo is changed
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<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, Post.find(3) <----state
<RubyPanther>
Notice for example that all our methods that alter the receiver have a ! at the end of the method name, to make it explicit that something is being changed
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<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, that's not canonical ruby :D
<RubyPanther>
Right, and that .find() method should NOT cause changes!!!
<RubyPanther>
Yes it is canonical
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<RubyPanther>
I'll say this, if you have a hard time telling what is or isn't a "side effect," you're right to write a lot of tests. Write more tests, you'll never have enough tests.
<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, bang methods, in canonical ruby, are "dangerous" versions of related non-bang methods; dangerous usually means modifying the receiver, where the non-bang version of the same method returns a new and changed object
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<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, bang methods in rails are for related methods, but which raise rather than return an error code
<RubyPanther>
yfeldblum: your podium is too new, you don't know the history. Quick lecturing and I'll tell you about the subject. ;)
<RubyPanther>
! methods were originally the standard for "changes receiver." That is how they are used in stdlib, that is what Matz' idea was. Rails ignored that and took them to mean anything "dangerous." Matz agreed that "dangerous" seemed to be making more sense to people, and included changing the receiver as a subset, so he blessed that interpretation.
<chrisr>
d
<chrisr>
eka: "If I had to guess (I can't seem to find the commit where this specifically was added) it could've been due to an ordering issue. Since Module inclusion is really just inheritance, if the order of super calls matters it can be necessary to ensure that one module is included before or after another. That could be totally bogus, though; the easiest way to tell would be to try moving those out of included and see if the Ripple tests
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<RubyPanther>
generally anything dangerous is things with side effects, but a good example where it has side effects without changing the receiver is resetting a TCP connection.
<RubyPanther>
You seriously think state and side effects are synonyms?
<chrisr>
eka: that was one of the developers on the project
<yfeldblum>
RubyPanther, do you think i said that?
<RubyPanther>
yfeldblum: honestly you seem to be repeating it over and over again
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<banisterfiend>
RubyPanther: if "changes the receiver" was really the original test, then why has ruby always had Array#insert which changes the receiver and does not end with a bang?
<eka>
chrisr: that's it
<eka>
chrisr: a hack :)
<banisterfiend>
RubyPanther: and, listening to you on #ruby you often just make things up and claim it as true, and never cite any kind of source to back it up
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<noodlefu>
i'm not sure if i'm making this a bigger deal than it is, but i'm wondering if this concurrency scenario is likely and for solutions to prevent it? http://pastie.org/private/wyv5vyfoqr5hytol4xffa
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<jrajav>
Citations are for the weak and the timid
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<shevy>
underwear is for the shy and reckless
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<codezombie>
I've got a ruby script that downloads files from s3. I'm using threading for this, and it works fine until the number of files is increased. I get the error "WARN: can't create Thread (35)". I'd like to limit the number of threads I run concurrently in this script. Is there some documented way of doing this in ruby?
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<havenn>
codezombie: What OS/distro?
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<Virunga>
Is there a method to test if a variable is nil or an empty array?
<codezombie>
havenn: currently developing on OS X 10.8, but the production box will be ubuntu 10.04
<hderms>
that's probably your best architectural method of achieving waht you want in the shortest amount of time
<havenn>
Virunga: ActiveSupport's #blank?
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<Virunga>
havenn: awesome! Thank you.
<havenn>
Virunga: An uber-simple version of it, if you dun wanna include ActiveSupport: class Object; def blank?; self.nil? || self.empty?; end; end
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<Virunga>
havenn: yes, i wanted to know if there was an proper method for that. More elegant :)
<codezombie>
hderms: thanks, I think this will definitely do what I want.
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<Virunga>
havenn: anyway, thank you for the tips
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<havenn>
codezombie: One other alternative to a pool of Threads is a pool of Processes! Might want to take a look at xpool: https://github.com/robgleeson/xpool
<hderms>
yeah xpool looked really awesome
<hderms>
i saw that pop up on reddit
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<havenn>
hderms: I really like it! I wrote a little gem around ichannel (channel that xpool uses) called ifuture: https://github.com/Havenwood/ifuture
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<MattRb>
So I think I'm going to learn ruby. Any good forums, etc. to browse?
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<banisterfiend>
MattRb: r u a timetraveller from 1997 ?
<banisterfiend>
who uses forums these days? :)
<MattRb>
banisterfiend: forums are still a really popular medium
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<banisterfiend>
MattRb: really? i thought they significantly dropped off. Anyway, there aren't many active ruby forums afaik
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<MattRb>
From normal forums like Something Awful, Facepunch, NEOGAF, etc. to pseudo forums like image boards (4chan) and voting boards (reddit) all get thousands of users.
<banisterfiend>
MattRb: what language are you coming from?
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<MattRb>
banisterfiend: Lua, and C mostly
<banisterfiend>
oh ok
<MattRb>
banisterfiend: why?
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<yfeldblum>
MattRb, references to ruby objects are reference-type references; except in the case of true, false, nil, symbols, and integers within a certain size
<banisterfiend>
MattRb: that gist explains how the various immediate type are packed into a VALUE
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<tricky>
k
<Hanmac>
i think in ruby you could call it "pass by object"
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<MattRb>
banisterfiend: this seems awfully complicated
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<banisterfiend>
MattRb: optimisations often are
<banisterfiend>
you should see how ruby optimizes strings and small objects :)
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<MattRb>
banisterfiend: how fast is Ruby?
<banisterfiend>
MattRb: comparable to python these days i think
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<MattRb>
Is there a JIT implementation? Like LuaJIT?
<banisterfiend>
MattRb: yes, rubinius
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<MattRb>
I'm liking Ruby so far. It seems pretty nice, especially the everything is an object thing, and the presence of a standardized object system.
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<MattRb>
In Lua we have this problem where the only object is a hash map with operator overloads more or less. Ruby seems a bit more practical in that regard.
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<banisterfiend>
MattRb: Yeah, ruby has a really sweet OO model
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<banisterfiend>
MattRb: it's a message-passing system, it takes a little bit of adjustment but it's really nice
<MattRb>
Like smalltalk a bit?
<banisterfiend>
Yes exactly
<Kuifje>
I don't know. I still think class definition is kind of weird
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<Kuifje>
def class puts "asd" end
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<banisterfiend>
MattRb: one of the original smalltalkers actually said this quote "i always thought smalltalk would beat java, but i didnt know it would be called ruby when it did"
<banisterfiend>
something like that
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<banisterfiend>
(though we haven't quite overtaken java yet :P)
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<banisterfiend>
Kuifje: that's not a class definition wtf
<MattRb>
Kuifje: if you think that's weird check out some Lua OO code. Almost every programmer/project uses a different object system which might not even be compatibleble paradigms.
<banisterfiend>
Kuifje: what language is that?
<Kuifje>
yeah, never mind
<banisterfiend>
MattRb: what Kuifje typed isn't ruby :)
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<MattRb>
Oh good :P.
<Kuifje>
I meant "class Asd \n puts "asd" \n end"
<banisterfiend>
Kuifje: why would u put a 'puts' inside a class definition?
<MattRb>
One weird thing that's bothering me: Ruby's syntax.
<banisterfiend>
you can, because class bodies are executable code, but it's pretty weird thing to do
<MattRb>
What in the hell is going on.
<Kuifje>
no reason, but why is it even possible
<banisterfiend>
Kuifje: because class bodies are executable
<banisterfiend>
Kuifje: it's the reason that attr_accessor and other such "class macros" work in ruby
<banisterfiend>
it's a very cool feature
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<banisterfiend>
it enables you to do meta programming inside the class body to generate methods
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<MattRb>
Is there an explanation of Ruby's syntax/grammar with a BNF grammar to go along or something somewhere :P?
<banisterfiend>
MattRb: well ruby has an ISO standard, it'll be in there if u google it
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<havenn>
Okay, MoonScript is making more sense now! :P
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<MattRb>
banisterfiend: I dunno. I was hoping Ruby might be more useful than Lua in a production kind of way. Lua is probably my favorite language, but library support is terrible.
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<MattRb>
And I've basically disqualified Python because I am not a big fan.
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<MattRb>
Also after seeing examples of Ruby I liked how expressive it looks. Ruby is probably one of the nicest looking languages I've ever seen, and seems like it'd be a dream to write :V
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<chrisftw_>
What does this error mean guys? C:\source\pigstream>bundle install C:/Ruby193/lib/ruby/site_ruby/1.9.1/rubygems/dependency.rb:247:in `to_specs': Co uld not find bundler (>= 0) amongst [bigdecimal-1.1.0, io-console-0.3, json-1.5. 4, minitest-2.5.1, rake-0.9.2.2, rdoc-3.9.4] (Gem::LoadError) from C:/Ruby193/lib/ruby/site_ruby/1.9.1/rubygems/dependency.rb:256:in ` to_spec' from C:/Ruby193/lib/ruby/site_ruby/1.9.1/rubygem
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<v0n>
chrisftw_: "Co uld not find bundler". Maybe install bundler?
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<chrisftw_>
thanks v0n I am trying to figure out for what version of rails to install bundler for
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<chrisftw_>
=( man this is hard
<chrisftw_>
as I have been coding for a decade
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<nga4>
I don't think the version of bundler matters, if you have rubgems just do gem install bundler
<nga4>
then bundler will read your gemfile and do the reast
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<nga4>
wow, typos galore, sorry
<chrisftw_>
thanks nga4
<chrisftw_>
I think I am getting there
<chrisftw_>
I have a github ruby app I have up on heroku but it keeps crashing
<nga4>
windows has never been a pleasure for ruby development or deployment in my book
<chrisftw_>
I am trying to re set up my dev env on my machine
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<chrisftw_>
and Im missing platforms without even realising or quite understanding it
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<chrisftw_>
I can read the ruby code
<chrisftw_>
but I am having alot of trouble grasping the basics of the environments
<nga4>
well sure, its ruby, reading trhe code is the easy part
<chrisftw_>
thanks
<Xeago>
should I use apt-get to install rubies?
<chrisftw_>
hahahahah = )
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<nga4>
the environment can be a real hassle though
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<chrisftw_>
ok succesfully installed bundler
<chrisftw_>
lets try again
<chrisftw_>
yes
<chrisftw_>
it seems to be getting metadata and isntalling
<chrisftw_>
thanks guys
<nga4>
easy peasy
<chrisftw_>
*breathe*
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<chrisftw_>
im confused if I need to run "bundle install" on heroku
<nga4>
if it's in your gemfile you'll get it
<chrisftw_>
I have pushed the app up and I see it on heroku but am unsure of the rest
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<chrisftw_>
ok
<Xeago>
chrisftw_: it shouldn't cause harm to run it
<the_jeebster>
hey folks, I have a bunch of word .doc files that I need to extract text from. are there any libraries that deal with this or converting .doc to .txt in a unix environment?
<nga4>
most of my stuff goes in usr/local
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<Xeago>
the_jeebster: I once heard of a utility called strings
<Xeago>
but it spews out other stuff aswell
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<Xeago>
it is worth a shot tho
<MattRb>
atmosx: I sold a 1200$ Asus gaming laptop for this macbook air, and I don't regret it at all. The SSD makes this faster at a lot of stuff than that was.
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<atmosx>
MattRb: yeah, I'm in love with my air
<atmosx>
MattRb: if someone don't use a jewel like this on a daily basis can't appreciete. If you do have one, then you can't properly work on anything else
<MattRb>
One thing I hope is that they don't go smaller with the next model
<MattRb>
I actually think any lighter would be a bad idea
<MattRb>
A little bit of heft is okay
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<the_jeebster>
Xeago: this is a utility or you're making a crack about just using I/O stream to a string?
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<Xeago>
strings - find the printable strings in a object, or other binary, file
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<Xeago>
it is included on the 3 systems I have here
<the_jeebster>
Xeago: cool, do you have a link for this strings lib?
<Xeago>
it is included in my system install
<Xeago>
$ strings file.doc
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<Xeago>
I used it a long time ago to pull out information out of .doc resume's
<the_jeebster>
what system are you using?
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<maqr>
i'm on a fresh ubuntu install with system ruby and system gem, and as my user when i do 'gem install foo', it wants to write to /var/lib/gems... how can i make gems install to my home directory instead?
<Xeago>
ubuntu 12.04 has it in binutils package, osx and freebsd
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<the_jeebster>
ok, I'll try that out. unfortunately I have a feeling it's going to spit out a bunch of encoded characters as well
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<Xeago>
if you have an example file I can post the output for you
<Xeago>
so you don't have to install it
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<the_jeebster>
I can't even figure out where to find the install for unix
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<the_jeebster>
im on osx
<Xeago>
on osx you have it by default
<the_jeebster>
so it's accessed from bash
<Xeago>
yes
<the_jeebster>
man page?
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<Xeago>
ofcourse!
<the_jeebster>
bingo
<Xeago>
the headline I posted earlier is from man
<Xeago>
what is best to use for compiling ruby
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<Xeago>
clang or gcc
<Xeago>
doubt it matters right?
<maqr>
do i need rvm or rbenv to do a gem install to my home directory?
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<the_jeebster>
depends on your env. os x most likely gcc to avoid issues with snow/lion
<Xeago>
maqr: in general no
<Xeago>
the_jeebster: ubuntu server 12.04
<the_jeebster>
either should be fine
<postmodern>
maqr, nope, you can override GEM_HOME in .bashrc
<Xeago>
any recommendation
<postmodern>
maqr, point it to ~/.gem/$ruby/$version
<Xeago>
which is tighter on space?
<postmodern>
maqr, or do gem install --user-install ...
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<maqr>
aha
<maqr>
postmodern: that did it... so is ruby smart enough to first search in ~/.gem and then use the system gems after that?
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<postmodern>
maqr, that i dont know
<postmodern>
maqr, check `gem env`
<Xeago>
maqr: isn't that what gempath is for
<Xeago>
or GEM_PATH
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<maqr>
Xeago: probably, i'm trying to get a user account running thin servers via monit though, so i'm not sure how all the environment variable stuff works... i guess i should figure that out anyway :P
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<the_jeebster>
Xeago: strings seems to work great for what I need. thanks for the heads up!
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<Xeago>
Cool!
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<Xeago>
also if you need to handle .docx it is quite similair
<the_jeebster>
perfect
<the_jeebster>
there's a ruby library that looks nice, win32ole but only accessible via windows
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<atmosx>
00:44:15] <atmosx> anyone good with sinatra, I'm trying to write a post request, to send an xml to the server… https://gist.github.com/4438989 but I'm getting this error:
<atmosx>
[00:44:15] <atmosx> NoMethodError - undefined method `[]' for nil:NilClass:
<atmosx>
[00:44:15] <atmosx> /Users/atma/Dropbox/Programming/Projects/Local/HOWDB/application.rb:99:in `block in <class:Application>'
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<mmokrysz>
atmosx: Belongs in #sinatra, but I'll help. Which line is #99 in that Gist?
<Xeago>
I remember there being a plugin for uploads
<atmosx>
I tried to_s instead of to_i that doesn't make sense to me, but I had a different error (can't convert to integer)
<Xeago>
not sure if that is what you are looking for
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<atmosx>
Xeago: I'm trying to make the server accept an XML (yaml) file
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<mmokrysz>
atmosx: I think it's that the params[ok] is nil.
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<atmosx>
mmokrysz: if it's nil, it means that the client doesn't send anything...
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<Xeago>
what is params[ok] then?
<mmokrysz>
atmosx: What's with the "ok = params[:file].to_i"?
<atmosx>
mmokrysz: nothing just experimenting abit, it was just params[:file]
<mmokrysz>
atmosx: I don't see why you're using .to_i there? Is that the name of the field that uploaded the file, or are you trying to get something uploaded by an input with the name of "file"?
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<atmosx>
mmokrysz: no no, I just put it there to see what happens because I got another error previously. You're right though, it's nil while it shouldn't that's the prob.
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<mmokrysz>
atmosx: Was it the same error you were getting before?
<atmosx>
my original code had this: tempfile = params[:file][:tempfile]
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<atmosx>
TypeError - can't convert Symbol into Integer:
<mmokrysz>
atmosx: Sounds like params[:file] was an array rather than the hash that it should have been. Can you give us what "puts params[:file].inspect" outputs?
<MattRb>
Hey anyone got a basic rundown on stuff like variable naming and such? Is there community consensus on that kind of thing?
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<apeiros_>
atmosx: how about pasting an inspect of params?
<apeiros_>
understanding prevents blindly tinkering around
<atmosx>
mmokrysz: it puts "test.yml" which is correct, is the file tha thte client is trying to send
<atmosx>
but then TypeError - can't convert Symbol into Integer:
<mmokrysz>
That TypeError is because params[:file] is a string, not a hash.
<mmokrysz>
I don't think you're uploading a file - could you show us the HTML of the form?
<atmosx>
give me 1 min.
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<atmosx>
mmokrysz: HTML of the form? you mean the haml file?
<Ober>
in erb can you do something like <%= SomeClass.new.instance_method_bar(some_var) %> ? vs <%= some_method.call(some_var) %>?
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<invisime>
are subsequent calls to "Time.now.to_f" guaranteed to have different values, or is it possible to call it fast enough to get the same result twice?
<mmokrysz>
atmosx: The HAML will do, sure.
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<mmokrysz>
atmosx: Remove two spaces before the submitting %input
<mmokrysz>
atmosx: At the moment that input is nested inside the form input. Might be leading to the main issue.
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<atmosx>
mmokrysz: This form works as is if I try to upload the test.yml manually though. I'm trying to do it directly. I'll test it but not sure how it's related to the prob
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* apeiros_
still bets that a simple inspect of params would solve the mystery
<mmokrysz>
atmosx: I don't think this is it either, but when finding bugs when debugging mystery bugs it's best to check they're not the cause.
<mmokrysz>
apeiros_: You could, you know, ask him.
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<apeiros_>
mmokrysz: you could, you know, read the backlog and see that I did
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<mmokrysz>
aapzak: :D Okay. atmosx - what does "puts params.inspect" output?
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* apeiros_
suggests pp params
<apeiros_>
don't forget to require 'pp'
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<atmosx>
ah
<apeiros_>
(also, `p params` is IMO easier than `puts params.inspect`)
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<apeiros_>
atmosx: um, yeaaaaah, maybe you put the `p params` *before* the line that explodes?
<apeiros_>
because otherwise it's not reached…
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<apeiros_>
also, please use pp
<apeiros_>
p will most likely not be nice to read.
<atmosx>
pp params ?
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<apeiros_>
yes
<atmosx>
oh here we got something: {"splat"=>[], "captures"=>["test.yml"], "file"=>"test.yml"}
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<shevy>
atmosx life sucks
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<shevy>
but ruby rocks
<atmosx>
shevy: yeah, if u know how to use it :-P
<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
atmosx, for a bioengineering class, they want from the students to learn python+java. but for no real netgain... I am going to write up a bunch of gems related to bioinformatics, in ruby, and tell them that I can solve all tasks they assign to me in ruby
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<shevy>
I dont mind python but I really fail to see me having to spend time learning java significantly if I know I have no need to use it :(
<atmosx>
shevy: there's bio-ruby.. I was looking at it yesterday
<atmosx>
I'm having a molecular bio exam on the 9th… and I'm all day long among protein synthesis, amino-acids, quarternary conformation prediction (!) lol
<shevy>
let's see how far along I'll get with my own gems
<atmosx>
okay
<atmosx>
good luck and upload them
<atmosx>
might turn useful
<shevy>
atmosx sounds simple enough :)
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<shevy>
hmm or not
<atmosx>
sure, we'll cure Alzheimer
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<shevy>
I would not know how to predict quarternary structure
<shevy>
how do they do that anyway? I thought it was an unresolved problem
<shevy>
i.e. if I give you 100 aminoacids, you tell me the net structure :)
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<atmosx>
shevy: I'm joking, it's a huge problem and stil unresolvable :-P
<shevy>
yeah
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<shevy>
I think they got the data from proteins only through x-ray ... or spectroscopy... or something... and never from the sequence information alone
<atmosx>
BUT we'll use ruby to calculate it… What I don't know yet is if theoritically the protein knows the quarternary structure it ought to take given the specific combination of aa or changes conformation so quick that makes the light-speed look like the grandma in the park.
<atmosx>
I like molecular biology and chemistry only now makes some sense...
<shevy>
yeah, that this all works so quickly is amazing
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<aedorn>
anyone know of any blind ruby coders?
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* apeiros_
doesn't
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<atmosx>
aedorn: I can write much worse code than apeiros_ blind or blindfold if that's what you're looking for.
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<apeiros_>
hm, that'd actually be an interesting challenge
<swarley>
I'll take $4 on apeiros_ coding better
<apeiros_>
I don't mean in the competitive sense
<atmosx>
swarley: lol depends on the project, but the STAKES are up!
<apeiros_>
just coding blindly at all
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<atmosx>
who's gonna judge the code?
* atmosx
can bribe him
<swarley>
Well, the thing about coding blindly
<swarley>
No revisions
<swarley>
Backspacing would be too risky
<atmosx>
yeap
<atmosx>
and you have to use your favorite editor.. but mine is vim and if I miss the insert/cmd mod I'm screwed
<apeiros_>
swarley: that's one aspect of it being interesting. though I'd cheat on that (speak text, speak cursor position - or go fully monty and learn braille)
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<aedorn>
heh, no.. looking for someone experienced in the situation. I have very early stages of glaucoma, so I'm trying to figure out what I can do if it advanced to blindness. I've heard of some blind programmers, but never met one
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<apeiros_>
aedorn: I think the main problem will be the same as for any other text editing. but I'm not blind, so I've no real idea…
<shevy>
apeiros_ hehehe
<apeiros_>
*full monty even
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<swarley>
I read that as full monty python
<aedorn>
yeah.. guess so. Hmmm.. there's always chess and music at least
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<shevy>
hmmm
<apeiros_>
aedorn: hm? I think it's very doable
<shevy>
some blind people can do amazing things
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<shevy>
do you know of those that use noise from their mouth to calculate their surroundings?
<apeiros_>
afaik there are plain-text editors for the blind, and that's all you need for ruby
<swarley>
you mean bats
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<shevy>
swarley haha well bats have it easy. nah I mean humans
<swarley>
Wow, I didn't know humans were capable of echolocation
<shevy>
they can only make out a few general things
<aedorn>
swarley: Dare Devil! heh
<shevy>
like general shape of an object, rough distance and such
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<shevy>
and they still have to use a walking stick
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<shevy>
but I was amazed to hear that it is even possible at all
<apeiros_>
aedorn: but I have a great respect about using braille to navigate your code. hell, I jump around in my code like crazy when working on it. I have no idea how I'd do that with braille.
<swarley>
not directly related to programming, but interesting nonetheless
<aedorn>
apeiros_: I'm learning braille now... I'll let you know how code navigation goes lol
<apeiros_>
being blind might actually be a reason for me to go for a more statical language. easier to organize the code.
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<shevy>
heeh
<shevy>
now I understand the implication of "finding a blind RUBY programmer" :)
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<shevy>
all I know is that blind people can process sensory information very quickly
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<apeiros_>
shevy: sure, but visual is great for unstructured or loosely structured information. I imagine that to be rather hard in tactile or aural
<atmosx>
aedorn: there's a blind coder in the movie "snickers". He read data through physical input (pins or something) and can type etc. maybe you can type with one hand and read with the other...
<atmosx>
or use sound
<apeiros_>
atmosx: the "pins or something" is a braille reader ;-)
<aedorn>
It's all certainly an interesting thing to ponder on. I can say that adhering to the idea of single responsibility would be required almost right off
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<atmosx>
!!!!
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<atmosx>
do you have a mac or pc?
<atmosx>
aedorn: do you have a mac or pc?
<shevy>
do you have a big mac
<shevy>
only nazis use mac
<atmosx>
omg
<aedorn>
atmosx: yes, and he was also able to tell what keys people were pressing by hearing it. and a PC - Linux everything
<shevy>
and only idiots use linux
<atmosx>
I'm not a nazi
<shevy>
I use linux :(
<atmosx>
shevy: if the residual choice is windows the human kind is danger
<shevy>
linux has two nice things... the unix philosophy... and that you can really alter almost everything in it
<shevy>
well, only slaves use windows
<shevy>
I am just a half-slave
<shevy>
I'd wish the idea from gobolinux would not have died though
<atmosx>
well you can alter everything if you know how to do it
<shevy>
yeah atmosx
<shevy>
it's a catch. and, altering takes time... which can also be a problem
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<atmosx>
and the amound of people able to "change" the kernel tree becomes suddenly extremelly narrow :-P
<shevy>
I used to experiment a lot more ~10 years ago
<atmosx>
s/amound/amount
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<atmosx>
yeah me too
<atmosx>
I used to lose incredible amounts of time to configure gentoo and fluxbox
<atmosx>
in 2004
<shevy>
hehe
<aedorn>
linux kernel is too big now. You can only focus on a portion of it with any great success
<shevy>
I too, though not with gentoo, but I compile from source
<shevy>
I agree aedorn
<apeiros_>
aedorn: as far as I heard (no 1st sources, though), apple seems to do a rather good job with regards to accessibility
<shevy>
but sometimes I think they have no alternative aedorn
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<shevy>
becoming static often means death in software project
<shevy>
so they kind of must grow and grow and grow...
<aedorn>
and a very small portion, at that. Which isn't a bad thing, but I don't think there's a single person in the world that can tell you about every single piece of it now. It's the rise of specialization
<aedorn>
apeiros_: I'll have to buy a Mac one day - so expensive though. Maybe a hackintosh
<atmosx>
no but if you know how "it works" you don't have to know everything by heart. it's the mindset that counts… Linus Torvalds probably can find his way through the entire kernel tree.
<atmosx>
aedorn: it will pay off, especially the Macbook air is an amazing device.
<atmosx>
and with that I'm off to bed
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<atmosx>
shit, I'm so addicted to vim that when I'm writing documents with pages (ms word clone) I try to save the file by typing :wq
<atmosx>
jeez
<atmosx>
good night all
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<aedorn>
lol, night
<pskosinski>
I'm sometimes writing :q instead of exit in ssh >.>
<atmosx>
pskosinski: lol that can me arranged with some bash/ssh alias :-P or keyboard-binding I suppose.
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<pskosinski>
Maybe I will try ^^
<shevy>
atmosx haha yeah... this is the reason I gave up on vim
<shevy>
it tried to fuck with my brain too much :(
<shevy>
or rather... a bit messing with the brain is ok. what I really disliked was that there seemed to be so much to learn, and I did not like the syntax for functions etc.., ruby spoiled me too much
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<pskosinski>
Hm... : is true in bash :( So reserved
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