<zenspider>
I totally forgot that I wrapped it with ruby -e
<zenspider>
didn't even see it after you mentioned
<aaeron>
zenspider: got the override for ` working
<aaeron>
It was so simple. But dint get it anywhere in google but u
<pipework>
zenspider: Whenever you're not entirely correct about something, I always start questioning everything I know because you're not too shabby. So if you could just be right all the time, that'd do wonders for my confidence. :p
<zenspider>
just look at the calendar. if it is tuesday, assume I'm stupid. :)
<zenspider>
(really)
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<womble>
It's Wednesday here, so does that mean that you're smart on this side of the date line?
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<lewis__>
hi guys
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<zenspider>
womble: maybe?
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<mistnim>
I say, make d = 3 if it's not defined. d ends up being nil
<ledestin>
defined? answers whether it's defined, not what value it is
<mistnim>
ledestin: yes
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<mistnim>
let's take d, an undefiend variable, if we do "defined? d" it returns nil. So I do "d = 3 unless defined? d". After that I expect d to be 3 not nil.
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<mistnim>
ledestin: I check the value after that statment with puts d. and It's nil.
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<womble>
mistnim: The variable is defined by the time the interpreter gets around to evaluating the defined?(d)
<womble>
So you need to check defined?(d) in a statement *prior* to trying to set it
<womble>
>> unless defined?(d) d = 3; end; d
<eval-in>
womble => /tmp/execpad-9bfa281d6b64/source-9bfa281d6b64:2: syntax error, unexpected tIDENTIFIER, expecting keyword_then or ';' or '\n' ... (https://eval.in/353928)
<mistnim>
so for some reason in that line it defines it as nil and then checks if it's defined, weird
<womble>
It's possible (though unlikely) that that is unexpected behaviour and would be treated as a bug; it's one of those corner cases that nobody may have thought of before.
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<ledestin>
womble wow, an insight into interpreter. I always thought "unless" clause would be evaluated first.
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<womble>
It's *evaluated* first, but defining variables likely takes place before evaluation.
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<ledestin>
right
<ddfreyne>
wq
<ddfreyne>
Sorry.
<ledestin>
ddfreyne use "x"
<womble>
It's not IRC without the occasional mis-aimed vi quit.
<pipework>
That's why cool kids use ZZ
<pipework>
You can pretend it's social commentary.
<ledestin>
did you know there's Vi for web? Like a Chrome plugin.
<pipework>
vimium, yeah
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<rob___>
ZZ is crazy keyboard acrobatics
<ledestin>
jeez, didn't know of ZZ
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<rob___>
you'll get claw hand using that kind of nonsense
<ledestin>
my right hand's already claw, but due to the mac touchpad
<womble>
Interesting that dropping the parens produces a different parse tree.
<pipework>
Why would it be?
<pipework>
Interesting, that is.
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<womble>
Because it's a solution to mistnim's problem, for one thing.
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<womble>
And also that 'if' presumably has a higher precedence than =, or something of that nature
<pipework>
I don't think it's that.
* womble
didn't pay attention in lexer/parser class
<pipework>
a = (3 if defined?(a)) is equivalent to a = 3 if defined?(a)
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<pipework>
What does an if return when the condition isn't met?
<womble>
Cthulhu.
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<pipework>
it returns nil.
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<ledestin>
pipework thanks, but I don't really get it
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<pipework>
ledestin: What didn't you get about it?
<pipework>
The AST is super readable.
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<womble>
If you like teasing out paren-pileups, anyway... <grin>
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<ledestin>
pipework I just never encountered that before
<pipework>
Yes, five pairs is hard to track.
<ledestin>
lvar, lvassgn
* womble
has never worked out why lispy people like to pile all the parens at the end...
<pipework>
ledestin: What do you suppose they mean? Have you ventured a guess?
<womble>
Just burn another newline or two, it's not as though you suddenly signed up for a punctuation conservation foundation
<pipework>
womble: Because at the end of the expression, there's not much point in the extra newlines and whitespace.
<pipework>
The opening parents and alignment conveys enough.
<ledestin>
pipework var definition and assignment?
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<pipework>
ledestin: not quite. lvar is for accessing a local variable, lvasgn is for assigning one.
<pipework>
Not really rocket surgery.
<womble>
pipework: Except when it looks like (int 3))) nil) and you get to play count-the-parens to work out where the `nil` fits in
<pipework>
womble: Count your depth going in.
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<womble>
Pfft, if I wanted to count things I would be a mathematician. <grin>
<pipework>
Just take your preference of wanting the tail end of the expression to make finding the right depth and frontload that to the front of the expression.
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<ledestin>
pipework what's "send"
<pipework>
ledestin: Does google not work in your country?
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<pipework>
Really, you must do what you're capable of doing if you want to be able to get good halp when you actually need it.
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<womble>
So, the semantics of "begin" confuse me. That's the only difference between the (a = 3) and a = 3 forms, but I'm not sure what it's supposed to mean, so it's tricky to tell what's going on.
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<pipework>
womble: The begin here is serving the same purpose as () does for precedence in the maths.
<pipework>
It does a lot more, but it doesn't matter in this specific expression.
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<womble>
pipework: So the 'if' statement evaluates the first block, and evaluates and returns the value of the second block if true, and eval/returns the value of the third block if false?
<womble>
s/block/list/ I guess
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<pipework>
Within the if there's only two sub-expressions.
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<ledestin>
pipework there's difference between afternoon chat and, well, trying to get help. that's what I thought about this chat.
<womble>
LISP always gives me headaches. Must be why I studied Eng instead of CompSci.
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<pipework>
ledestin: I appreciate people who don't waste my time because they're lazy.
<pipework>
womble: Lisp, not LISP.
<ledestin>
pipework I'll keep that in mind
<womble>
LisP <grin>
<pipework>
womble: if takes two expressions, the return value of the first expression determines whether the second is executed.
<pipework>
Essentially, you can take it apart to see how it works. The AST returned by Parser::CurrentRuby.parse is something you should look at. Then we unparse the AST back into ruby and eval that.
* womble
can't resist a fun one
<pipework>
Which shows you that if you cause an AST that accesses an instance variable that doesn't exist, it initializes it to nil.
<womble>
And hey, most anything's more fun than beating away at webapps
<pipework>
Try Parser::CurrentRuby.parse('a') on its own. The AST is completely different from 'a=a'.
<yorickpeterse>
The best part about Ruby:
<yorickpeterse>
foo = 10 if false
<yorickpeterse>
guess what "foo" is now set to
<pipework>
nil?
<womble>
Cthulhu.
<yorickpeterse>
pipework: yup
<pipework>
yorickpeterse: Though without looking, I assume it's the return value of the conditional expression being nil that causes the assignment to reflect such, right?
<yorickpeterse>
I'd argue that's completely fucked up
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<pipework>
WHERE IS WHITEQUARK, OH MY GOD ARE WE ALL GOING TO DIE?!
<womble>
Yes. Yes, we are.
<yorickpeterse>
Because "foo = 10 if false" is "foo = 10 if false" and not "foo = 10 || if false if false" (or something along those lines)
<pipework>
yorickpeterse: Yeah it does seem counter-intuitive.
<pipework>
I'm not sure about the reasoning, but multiple languages emit this same behaviour.
<yorickpeterse>
I recall one of the core members at some point this was a feature because...reasons
<pipework>
Whenever I get too confused about ruby, I just break out whitequark's gems.
<yorickpeterse>
e.g. in rbx the above code would raise
<yorickpeterse>
because we only define variables when they're actually evaluated
<yorickpeterse>
that is, "foo = 10 if false; foo" raises a NameError
<pipework>
yorickpeterse: I haven't had any reason to dislike rbx other than brixen. Is the runtime actually pretty neat?
<yorickpeterse>
I don't know what the problem with him would be, but yes?
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<yorickpeterse>
I mean, my opinion is somewhat biased as I've been tinkering with it for 2-3 years now
<pipework>
yorickpeterse: He's a bit abrasive to others in a way that doesn't even point them in the direction they should be looking.
<yorickpeterse>
and trying to get this pig in production for over a year now
<pipework>
yorickpeterse: I'm cool with bias. I have had bias against rbx because of one person on the time.
<pipework>
s/on/at/
<pipework>
yorickpeterse: Wait, I'd expect that last expression to assign the return value of the if statement to the local, which should have been nil if it preserves ruby behaviour.
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<yorickpeterse>
It's pretty silly to dislike a tool because of some person behind it
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<pipework>
yorickpeterse: I dislike python because the BDFL hates powerful lambdas.
<yorickpeterse>
pipework: No, the expression isn't assigning if's return value to "foo"
<pipework>
It can reflect in the project.
<pipework>
Whereas a=a would definitely make sense to raise a NameError
<yorickpeterse>
that would require it to be "foo = if false ... end"
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<pipework>
yorickpeterse: I think mri reads that expression closer to foo = (10 if false)
<pipework>
10 if false returns nil
<yorickpeterse>
IIRC MRI sort of pre-defines all locals in a scope before actually assigning them, hence triggering this behaviour
<yorickpeterse>
But in case of Rbx we don't define any localvariables until we actually assign them
<yorickpeterse>
* local variables
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<pipework>
I don't know the actual C stuff, I just follow the parser output. It seems that access an ivar will return the value or initialize it to nil and return that.
<yorickpeterse>
e.g.
<yorickpeterse>
>> def foo; p local_variables; a = 10; end; foo
<pipework>
yorickpeterse: Thanks for the heads up before I destroyed my system trying to get it to work.
<yorickpeterse>
heh
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<pipework>
yorickpeterse: Is that pull what I should follow to keep abreast of the issue?
<yorickpeterse>
Yeah
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<pipework>
Thank you, good sir.
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<yorickpeterse>
np
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<bougyman>
mornin yorickpeterse
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<yorickpeterse>
o7
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<bougyman>
SimpleCov on 2.2.2 working for anyone?
<bougyman>
it's completely lost its mind, here.
<bougyman>
giving gibberish results and crazy behavior.
<bougyman>
it generates coverage for the tests before the suite even runs.
<womble>
Efficient!
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<bougyman>
Coverage report generated for Functional Tests to /var/lib/buildbot/slaves/slave/beast/build/beast_coverage. 11606 / 39010 LOC (29.75%) covered.
<bougyman>
Loaded suite lib/test_runner
<bougyman>
........
<bougyman>
Started
<bougyman>
yeah but quite wrong
<[k->
maybe it is threaded?
<bougyman>
on another project I have, it generates at the end, and it's always 100% coverage... 0 / 0 LOC (100%) covered.
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<bougyman>
this only happened moving to 2.2.2
<bougyman>
and the second project worked fine even on 2.2.1
<bougyman>
could have been that big a change, I wouldn't think.
<bougyman>
I don't even know what's generating that number, but it's not simplecov.
<womble>
Extremely precise incorrectness.
<bougyman>
i'm gonna drive into the office and try to figure this out. it's driving me nuts.
<[k->
lol the pun XD
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<hal_9000_>
who’s awake?
<maloik>
about 2/3 of the people on this planet, I imagine
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<hal_9000_>
that is at least 4 billion. thank you
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<hal_9000_>
i don’t suppose anyone here uses nanoc?
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<maloik>
general irc etiquette, you don't have to ask to ask, and you're better off just appending the actual question. "problem with nanoc: <link to code/explanation>"
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<hal_9000_>
in my past experience, this channel was not stiff and formal by any means.
<womble>
"Stiff and formal" doesn't mean we don't like efficiency.
<maloik>
it's not, I'm just saying that it's pointless waiting for someone to go "yes I use nanoc" :-)
<maloik>
you'll either get no responses, or someone will read this and reply yes then walk away from their computer
<maloik>
or maybe they'll respond and simply don't know
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<womble>
And then there's plenty of people who do use it, but who won't respond to such a question because the usual next step is a flood of very entitled PMs
<maloik>
:D
<hal_9000_>
i’m not yet accustomed to there being so many strangers here
<womble>
There's no denying, we are very strange.
<maloik>
you should see me on mondays!
<womble>
I do.
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<hal_9000_>
how long have you guys been using ruby if i may ask?
<womble>
A terrifyingly long time.
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<womble>
I think I worked it out the other day at something like 12 years.
<maloik>
*covers webcam with tape*
<womble>
Still don't know what I'm doing.
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<womble>
maloik: Pfft, the NSA doesn't let you have *proper* tape
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<hal_9000_>
womble: i don’t remember you actually - same nick back then?
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<womble>
I haven't been in here for 12 years.
<hal_9000_>
i think 12 years ago it was still possible to know almost everyone in the channel
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<imperator>
not familiar with nanoc hal_9000_
<hal_9000_>
hi imperator
<imperator>
howdy
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<hal_9000_>
it’s another static blogging system - perhaps my favorite
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<hal_9000_>
imperator: btw do you remember exactly when this channel was started? i can’t offhand.
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<imperator>
2002 or so i think; wonder if freenode can tell me
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<hal_9000_>
i would have guessed 2000, but that part of my brain is wiped
<ljarvis>
Oct 11 01:47:05 2003
<hal_9000_>
really. fascinating, thanks
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<ljarvis>
/msg chanserv info #ruby-lang
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<hal_9000_>
imperator: do you have a blog nowadays?
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<imperator>
still got my LJ account, but i blog infrequently
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<hal_9000_>
ah. i’m on a constant quest for the holy grail of selfhosted blogs
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<ljarvis>
color me surprised, swift is actually a really nice language
<hal_9000_>
i was just reading about that yesterday
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<maloik>
my blog is/was jekyll
<maloik>
not quite blogging though
<maloik>
seems down too
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<hal_9000_>
i really should just break down and study web stuff for a year - trouble is, i just don’t like it
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<hal_9000_>
i probably have spent more hours than that explaining that i know ruby but don’t know rails
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<darix>
hal_9000_: and then alot of what you learned in the beginning of the year is already obsolete in the end ;)
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<hal_9000_>
not so much in my case :) i would spend time on things like “hmm, what exactly is routing all about?” :P
<imperator2>
hal_9000_, october 11, 2003 is when this channel was registered
<ljarvis>
lol
<hal_9000_>
imperator2: i would have guessed earlier - ruby-talk had been around 3+ years by then
<hal_9000_>
ljarvis: :)
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<imperator2>
i think there were earlier channels, but they were the japanese folks
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<imperator2>
and it may have existed earlier in practice, just wasn't registered until then
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<darix>
btw is it just me or is ruby-core ml kinda quiet lately. most mails are from redmine
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<imperator>
darix, been that way for a long time i think
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<hal_9000_>
but if you are comfortable with web concepts, you might study Rails also
<elev>
ye
<elev>
but ruby its my first prpgram
<elev>
want to learn it good before rails
<elev>
but I want to build websites eventctually
<hal_9000_>
ok i have a question
<elev>
y?
<elev>
go ahead
<yorickpeterse>
elev: also, terminal applications are surprisingly useful, and probably the least difficult to start with
<hal_9000_>
do you want to just create “bigger better” programs, that could be terminal-based?
<hal_9000_>
or do you want to avoid the terminal as much as possible?
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<elev>
yea
<elev>
I want a prpogram people can download
<elev>
and maybe a game
<elev>
shit like that
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<elev>
I like the terminal but I want a program people can use :)
<elev>
and download
<hal_9000_>
ok i see
<elev>
shoes is good for that?
<BanzaiJoe>
Any software architects or designers here? I went looking for good software design document templates or at least rules of thumb. Got a whole lot of consultant garbage and IEEE formality. Would you recommend just doing it organically?
<[k->
me & software architecturing != anything good
<BanzaiJoe>
I think the answer will probably be like code, write, refactor, iterate, learn from the mistakes, rinse, repeat
<[k->
i don't know anything
<[k->
some people use contracts to introduce type safety to ruby
<[k->
so it makes refactoring safer
<[k->
i guess what you mean is TDD, and others
<BanzaiJoe>
I think if I put down the google and just rubber ducked it for 10 minutes, I could probably come up with the framework I'm thinking about, out of all the pages I've read, "organizational memory" seems like the most valuable term
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<elev>
the shoes doesnt wor
<elev>
or I dont get it to work
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<elev>
y
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<hal_9000_>
VinnyBoy: what confuses you? we can answer questions
<VinnyBoy>
well, i read that ruby is basically c++ but prettier
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<hal_9000_>
haha, yes, like a cat is basically a slug but prettier
<VinnyBoy>
first thing, am i supposed to code in text files?
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<hal_9000_>
yes? as opposed to what?
<pipework>
VinnyBoy: It's quite a lot of things, but you'll probably find that unless you really want to spend your time learning a language and not building your game, you might want to pick something a bit more familiar to you.
<VinnyBoy>
in c++, i was coding in, well, specific files using the engine i was given
<pipework>
You can always come back and add ruby bindings.
<hal_9000_>
oh, visual c++ or something?
<VinnyBoy>
yup
<hal_9000_>
oh, i see
<hal_9000_>
well, there is rubymine if you want a powerful IDE
* VinnyBoy
googles that
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<hal_9000_>
but i am old-fashioned and just edit individual files
<imperator>
VinnyBoy, you got Visual Studio? there's a Ruby plugin for that called sapphire steel
<VinnyBoy>
i actually wonder if i have visual studio
<VinnyBoy>
hold on
<pipework>
You can use whatever you want to work with your code, but you'd best aim for something that eventually writes plaintext files to disk.
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<pipework>
Which is most any IDE and text editor, though some are less horrible than others.
<VinnyBoy>
sheit, i think i actually have that
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<hal_9000_>
i forgot about visual studio
<hal_9000_>
i haven’t been on windows in years
<VinnyBoy>
sapphire steel huh, lemme check on that
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<DCameronMauch>
I am creating a new class dynamically and need to test what is happening inside that
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<DCameronMauch>
have no idea how to get ahold of the object that is receiving those includes
<DCameronMauch>
using rspec BTW
<DCameronMauch>
getting rid of the Class.new is not an option for me either
<DCameronMauch>
those customizing includes have class methods and I can't pollute a global class that other requests would use
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<DCameronMauch>
which customizations this would be called with is a function of the request's user, thus will change from request to request
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<DCameronMauch>
anyone there?
<ruby-lang332>
:)
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<DCameronMauch>
is this the right place to ask this kind of question?
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<DCameronMauch>
hello?
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<ruby-lang834>
haiii guys
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<ruby-lang834>
anyone here has scrapped imdb ranking? I'm having ridiculous problem. Opening imdb in nokogiri give me non-english movies titles (but imdv has only english language available). how is it possible?
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<ruby-lang834>
BanzaiJoe: Every movie is in Polish... really. Titles got translated somehow
<ruby-lang834>
flavorjones: I'm using open-uri and nokogiri this way: Nokogiri::HTML(open(url))
<ruby-lang834>
it works
<ruby-lang834>
is there hidden language switch on the webpage?
<flavorjones>
ruby-lang834: sorry, I'm trying to make a point that Nokogiri isn't downloading anything. You should isolate your problem with open-uri first
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<ruby-lang834>
flavorjones: So what nokogiri does?
<ruby-lang834>
Isn't it requesting given url and parse it into nodes?
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<darix>
ruby-lang834: just an idea
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<darix>
instead of using open-uri use something that gives you a bit more control over http headers
<flavorjones>
ruby-lang834: open-uri provides `open()` which makes the HTTP network call. Nokogiri parses the HTML being returned by `open()`.
<ruby-lang834>
can you try it on your own guys? what does Nokogiri::HTML(open('http://www.imdb.com/chart/top?ref_=cht_ql_2';)).at_css('#main > div > div.lister > table > tbody > tr:nth-child(1) > td.titleColumn > a').text return for you?
<flavorjones>
My advice is to not conflate Nokogiri with the content being downloaded via open-uri.
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