cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: PyPy, the flexible snake (IRC logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/pypy/ ) | use cffi for calling C | the secret reason for us trying to get PyPy users: to test the JIT well enough that we're somewhat confident about it
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<cfbolz> fijal: any chance you'll have time to take a look at the opencoder changes?
<cfbolz> otherwise I would go ahead and merge fix-sre-problems
<kenaan> cfbolz fix-sre-problems f034b1d5a9e9 /pypy/: merge default
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/rpython-linux-x86-64/builds/63 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/5366 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/6644 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/rpython-linux-x86-32/builds/46 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-32/builds/5766 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-32/builds/2954 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/4533 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-64/builds/3949 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<arigato> cfbolz: I assume you checked that the JIT produces the same optimized traces?
<cfbolz> arigato: yes
<arigato> cool
<cfbolz> arigato: which reminded me how strange those traces sometimes get ;-)
<arigato> :-
<arigato> )
<arigato> def frontend_tag_overflow() is no longer needed in opencoder.py
<arigato> self.history.trace_tag_overflow() should be checked more systematically: at least before any self.history.trace.done()
<arigato> (otherwise, you get a trace with a broken v = 0 in them but you're still using that trace)
<cfbolz> arigato: right
<cfbolz> arigato: indeed, it's a bit of a dangerous interface
<cfbolz> (not that raising exceptions randomly in the middle of any code is that much better)
<cfbolz> arigato: maybe done should itself assert that the tags didn't overflow?
<arigato> yes, well, that's an assertion waiting to fail
<arigato> the safest would be to raise the SwitchToBlackhole from done()
<cfbolz> pfff, are we sure enough this is safe?
<arigato> no, but at least that's only 3 places to check
<cfbolz> arigato: honestly, I'd rather have an assert failure than what we had now, randomly misbehaving by jumping to the blackhole from an inconsistent state
<arigato> right
<arigato> ok
<arigato> note that blackhole_if_trace_too_long also calls history.trace.done(), for some reason
<cfbolz> yes, I am running into that
<cfbolz> and I can't add an argument done(abandoned_trace=True) either, because done is shared with TraceIterator :-(
<arigato> :-(
<arigato> why that it so, I have no clue
<cfbolz> I'll try to fix that, it sounds silly
<cfbolz> arigato: if I fix that, you think the branch looks ok?
<cfbolz> also, do you have an opinion whether I should rip out green fields completely, or leave them disabled?
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<bbot2_> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/6644 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
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<arigato> cfbolz: yes, the branch looks ok to me
<arigato> cfbolz: I don't know about greenfields, better leave them in but with an assert that fails if you use them, then people with 3rd-party jitdrivers can either remove the assert or adapt their code
<cfbolz> arigato: yes, works for me
<cfbolz> (that's what I did, actually)
<arigato> of course, the day we need to maintain some code (e.g. virtualizables) and run into some greenfield-specific hack, better kill it
<cfbolz> +1
<fijal> cfbolz: please merge
<fijal> I'm a bit sick
<cfbolz> ok
<cfbolz> fijal: get better soon!
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<mattip> there is a new failure with the numpy test suite, a subclass of ndarray (maskedarray) is somehow losing an attribute it should have
<cfbolz> mattip: related to anto's branch?
<mattip> adding a gc.collect() "fixes" the test, so I suspect a refcount issue introduced lately?
<mattip> maybe, I will try to bisect now
<antocuni> mattip: that test if flaky
<antocuni> if you run it enough times, you can see it failing even on default before I merged my branch
<mattip> antocuni: are we talking about the same one - test_shuffle_masked ?
<antocuni> if you look at the test, it looks weird: it does the same operation 50 times: if you increase the 50, it becomes more likely to fail
<antocuni> mattip: I think so
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<mattip> that test has a loop of 50 indeed
<antocuni> I also saw it when running tests on my branch; but then I saw it was occasionally failing also on default, so I declared that it was not a fault of the branch and merded :). Didn't investigate further, though
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<kenaan> arigo fix-sre-problems e0f94dd72f35 /pypy/module/_sre/interp_sre.py: Add comment
<cfbolz> arigato: yes, that caching part is a bit annoying
<cfbolz> before it really relied on the identity of the rpython list
<arigato> yes, so there's no change in the branch
<arigato> I wrote it anyway because I realized it now
<cfbolz> yes, thanks
<kenaan> cfbolz fix-sre-problems c7964f0be55f /rpython/jit/metainterp/: - remove frontend_tag_overflow - rename done to not clash with TraceIterator.done - add a defensive asser...
<kenaan> cfbolz fix-sre-problems 388756e1820b /pypy/doc/whatsnew-head.rst: typo
<arigato> well, then fix all callers of tracing_done() to check for tag_overflow
<arigato> a defensive assert is good but in the jit, it ends up as a very rare JIT crash, which for the end user is bad too
<arigato> of course I imagine that you could spend a few days just to come up with fragile tests
<arigato> maybe better to have a way to inject "tag_overflow = True"
<cfbolz> arigato: ok, but what do I actually *do* at these places? convince myself that switching to blackhole is somehow ok?
<arigato> yes
<arigato> compile_loop() and compile_loop_and_abort() are called from a place that also raises SwitchToBlackhole itself in other situations
<cfbolz> yes
<cfbolz> and everything that calls giveup() also raises SwitchToBlackhole
<cfbolz> so some of the others are fine
<arigato> yes, same with compile_trace()
<cfbolz> good, so it looks like we don't make the situation worse
<arigato> and compile_done_with_this_frame() sometimes calls giveup() itself
<arigato> yes
<cfbolz> arigato: yes, sorry, you are right to insist
<cfbolz> I can already see this assert failing
<cfbolz> arigato: eg in compile_trace:
<cfbolz> the record just before tracing_done could overflow the trace
<arigato> yes
<cfbolz> arigato: can we think of a defence for forgetting to call tracing_done?
<bbot2_> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/rpython-linux-x86-64/builds/63 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<cfbolz> arigato: maybe forbid the creation of a TraceIterator if tracing_done hasn't been called?
<arigato> the call to tracing_done(abandoned=True) looks a bit pointless
<cfbolz> arigato: it frees some stuff?
<arigato> yes, but some stuff on a trace that is going to be freed very soon
<arigato> along with the whole MetaInterp instance
<bbot2_> Success: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-64/builds/3949 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<cfbolz> arigato: so kill?
<arigato> I guess so
<cfbolz> arigato: ah, note that in theory we can call tracing_done several times on the same trace, when compile_loop doesn't compile a tarket_token, then we just keep tracing
<arigato> right
<arigato> is it a good idea to free these caches then?
<cfbolz> "who knows"
<cfbolz> continuing tracing should be a rare situation, of course
<cfbolz> things keep working fine if the caches are killed, we just use more tag bits
<bbot2_> Success: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/5366 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<kenaan> cfbolz fix-sre-problems bee54814e222 /rpython/jit/metainterp/pyjitpl.py: check for tag overflow before every call to tracing_done
<kenaan> cfbolz fix-sre-problems 0d7163be06ae /rpython/jit/metainterp/: check for trace tag overflow more systematically (thanks Armin)
<kenaan> cfbolz fix-sre-problems 30487ab1f380 /rpython/rlib/test/test_jit.py: fix test for green fields
<cfbolz> arigato: gaaaah, when we abort we create the full trace too pass it to the on_abort loop, which by default does nothing with it
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<arigato> of course
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<bbot2_> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/rpython-linux-x86-32/builds/46 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-32/builds/5766 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
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<cfbolz> arigato: even funnier. in pypy, the only user of the jit hook interface, it is completely commented out at the moment
<cfbolz> ah no
<cfbolz> it moved
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<simpson> I figured that basically everybody's JIT hooks were for stuff like debugging: https://github.com/monte-language/typhon/blob/master/typhon/debug.py
<lesshaste> if anyone has a bleeding edge numpy+pypy set up could you tell me if https://bitbucket.org/pypy/pypy/issues/2517/example-scientific-numpy-code-6x-slower-in is still very slow please
<simpson> I did have code at one point to support Linux perf JIT maps, using the hooks to write out the map, but I think that that code must have rotted.
<lesshaste> it would be great if these docs could be updated https://pypy.org/download.html#installing-numpy
<lesshaste> pypy -m ensurepip can't be run in ubuntu for example
<kenaan> cfbolz default b437cad15ce6 /rpython/rtyper/llinterp.py: silence test_llinterp_complete (bad fijal, no cookie)
<fijal> Oops
<cfbolz> ;-)
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<lesshaste> what would be super useful would be if it just said:
<lesshaste> virtualenv -p pypy my-env
<lesshaste> my-env/bin/pip install cython numpy
<lesshaste> or a correct version of the above :)
<cfbolz> fijal: do you have an idea what to do about the fact that we waste creating operations on trace abort every time?
<fijal> cfbolz: sorry?
<fijal> ENOTENOUGHCONTEXT
<cfbolz> fijal: when we abort tracing, because the trace is too long we do the following:
<fijal> lesshaste: so it's a bit not our fault that ubuntu does things differently
<fijal> I agree we can add the note though
<cfbolz> fijal: we call self.history.trace.unpack() to get the full trace as operations
<fijal> feel free to submit a pull request with an insert saying "btw, if you have an ubuntu provided pypy, do XYZ"
<fijal> ah, why do we do that? (and does it matter)
<cfbolz> fijal: then pass that hooks.on_abort(
<cfbolz> which does nothing with it, most of the time
<fijal> pfff
<fijal> right of course
<cfbolz> :-)
<fijal> maybe we should have a flag, if you register a hook then we actually pass it
<lesshaste> fijal, I don't know why ensurepip is ever needed sadly
<fijal> otherwise we pass a null pointer?
<cfbolz> fijal: ok
<cfbolz> will do that
<fijal> or alternatively, we pass an object that can be unpacked
<cfbolz> that sounds harder
<mattip> lesshaste: "pypy -m ensurepip" fails on which Ubuntu?
<fijal> if the hook decides to do something (e.g. call applevel)
<fijal> yes, whatever is easier
<mattip> lesshaste: I do it all the time on 16.04
<lesshaste> pypy -m ensurepip
<lesshaste> ensurepip is disabled in Debian/Ubuntu for the system python.
<lesshaste> mattip, I am on 16.04 too!
<cfbolz> mattip: but you don't use the system pypy, do you?
<lesshaste> mattip, just tested the test code and it's 34 seconds for pypy version 6 for cpython
<mattip> are you using the apt install pypy one?
<lesshaste> mattip, right.. I am using Python 2.7.13 (5.10.0+dfsg-2~ppa1~ubuntu16.04, Dec 29 2017, 17:57:59)
<lesshaste> [PyPy 5.10.0 with GCC 5.4.0 20160609]
<kenaan> cfbolz fix-sre-problems f44921d7b728 /rpython/rtyper/llinterp.py: merge default
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/rpython-linux-x86-64/builds/64 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/5367 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/6645 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/rpython-linux-x86-32/builds/47 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-32/builds/5767 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-64/builds/3950 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<lesshaste> mattip, what is ensurepip for?
<cfbolz> lesshaste: it's for installing pip eg if you download a pypy from buildbot.pypy.org/nightly/
<mattip> lesshaste: it is a built-in module, IMO should not be removed unless apt provides other means of installing pypy packages
<lesshaste> cfbolz, oh ok. I must never do that
<mattip> tumbleweed: can debian not remove ensurepip from pypy?
<lesshaste> I haven't come across this problem yet
<lesshaste> I mean I happily use pip with pypy
<lesshaste> mattip, is there a version of numpy+pypy that might be faster for https://bitbucket.org/pypy/pypy/issues/2517/example-scientific-numpy-code-6x-slower-in that I could try with the latest cpyext speedups?
<lesshaste> I fear compiling pypy from source if I don't need to :)
<cfbolz> lesshaste: grab a nightly
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<mattip> lesshaste: download any of the linux64 tar bundles from http://buildbot.pypy.org/nightly/trunk/
<lesshaste> cfbolz, good point. Have any cpyext speedups been incorporated but that might speedup accessing array elements?
<mattip> for 2.7 or http://buildbot.pypy.org/nightly/py3.5/ for 3.5
<lesshaste> mattip, thanks
<mattip> lesshaste: those should be faster than 5.10
<lesshaste> ok.. trying it now ( installing first)
<mattip> note you may get a warning about "size changed", it comes from cython and has been fixed on cython's HEAD but not released yet
<lesshaste> ok thanks
<lesshaste> currently numpy is installing slowly
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<lesshaste> UserWarning: __builtin__.type size changed, may indicate binary incompatibility. Expected 888, got 408
<lesshaste> from .mtrand import *
<lesshaste> just as you said
<lesshaste> 22 seconds! That's a lot better. just under 4 times slower than cpython now
* mattip off, lter
* mattip off later
<lesshaste> bye
<lesshaste> cfbolz, would it make sense to have a speed web page for numpy code too?
<lesshaste> as there is one currently for pure python code
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<bbot2_> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/6645 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
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<stduolc> Is there any channel on telegram for pypy?
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<bbot2_> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-32/builds/2954 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-32/builds/2955 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
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<kenaan> cfbolz jit-hooks-can-be-disabled df360c36c909 /rpython/: add a hook that makes it possible to disable all other hooks.
<kenaan> cfbolz jit-hooks-can-be-disabled d27c76b67b51 /pypy/module/pypyjit/: use new hook to check whether any hooks are set at all
<cfbolz> stduolc: no
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<lesshaste> stduolc, a nice idea though
<lesshaste> stduolc, you need to find the smallest superset of telegram + pypy users :)
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<cfbolz> lesshaste: yes, tracking numpy performance on PyPy over time somehow would be nice
<lesshaste> cfbolz, cool
<lesshaste> I volunteer my test example :)
<bbot2_> Success: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/4533 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/4534 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<cfbolz> somebody needs to volunteer to do *all* the work, I fear
<stduolc> my poor english limited my voluntary
<bbot2_> Success: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/rpython-linux-x86-32/builds/47 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/rpython-linux-x86-64/builds/64 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
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<bbot2_> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-32/builds/5767 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Success: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-64/builds/3950 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
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<kenaan> cfbolz jit-hooks-can-be-disabled f85a77753cf9 /rpython/: if no JitHookInterface is given, disable hooks completely
<fijal> cfbolz: I *think* that's not enough
<cfbolz> fijal: that's the third commit
<fijal> ah :-)
<fijal> sorry
<cfbolz> np :-)
<cfbolz> look at df360c36c909
<bbot2_> Success: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/5367 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<kenaan> cfbolz default ac140c11bea3 /: merge fix-sre-problems: - stop switching to the blackhole interpreter in random places, which leads to arbitrar...
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<bbot2_> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-32/builds/2955 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
<bbot2_> Success: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/4534 [Carl Friedrich Bolz-Tereick: force build, fix-sre-problems]
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<mattip> cfbolz: thanks for the quick work
<mattip> we are close to a new release IMO
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<cfbolz> mattip: cheers
<cfbolz> mattip: actually I have two more small branches I'd like to merge but I'd like to wait till tomorrow to see whether there is any fallout
<mattip> ok. I am searching for a cpyext issue,
<mattip> errors after a random number of times through a loop make me suspect refcount is off somewhere, it happens even with JIT off
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<cfbolz> mattip: no fun :-(
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<mattip> it seems I can pinpoint the line in cythonized code where the error occurs (printing is still my favorite debug method)
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<antocuni> mattip: if this is an issue which started to show up only recently, it might be worth trying with different versions of cython
<mattip> antocuni: good point
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<tumbleweed> mattip: ensurepip is disabled for good reason. nobody should need it
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<arigato> tumbleweed: what should we recommend people to use, then, if "pypy -m ensurepip" doesn't work because of their distribution-mangled version of pypy?
<tumbleweed> use a virtualenv
<tumbleweed> ensurepip would be modifying your debian package-installed pypy, that's kind of a no-go
<tumbleweed> if you create a virtulaenv, it'll have pip
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<arigato> ah, ok
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<mattip_> tumbleweed: hi. doesn’t calling the pypy a debian-installed package imply people can “apt install pypy-numpy”, etc?
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<bremner> I don't understand the question.
<bremner> are you saying debian shouldn't package things unless they package every possible piece of software that works with it?
<bremner> fsvo works.
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<tumbleweed> mattip: yes, when available
<tumbleweed> (not very much)
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<cfbolz> tumbleweed: nice, more than I would have thought
<tumbleweed> switch to sid and there's more
<dstufft> tumbleweed: I still feel like maybe Debian shouldn't put `python` on $PATH :P
<tumbleweed> we should probably add support for pip, and that would solve the issue that got us into this conversation
<dstufft> ALL YOU GET IS VIRTUALENV
<cfbolz> tumbleweed: that would be awesome
<tumbleweed> dstufft: yeah, the "system-python" is a very different way of thinking about things. I do see the merit of it
<tumbleweed> there are also people who rely on our packaged modules for their local apps
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<mattip_> ahh, nice. So I guess the day will come for pypy-numpy
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<squeaky_pl> for the pypy + pip discussion, portable builds bundle virtualenv so you can just unpack it and run `pypy-x.y.z/bin/virtualenv-pypy whatever`
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<hexa-> hi, is there a portable version of pypy for python3 thta works on debian stretch?
<hexa-> i've tried "Linux x86-64 binary (64bit, tar.bz2 built on Ubuntu 12.04 - 16.04)"
<hexa-> ah wait … just found the portable release
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