00:00 <Schwarzbaer> https://tutorial.ponylang.org/capabilities/aliasing.html "What counts as making an alias?"

00:01 <Schwarzbaer> So that also means that the methods of actors, them being mutable, cannot be called by any other actor, or object referenced by another actor?

00:31 <Schwarzbaer> I also have a bit of a problem of grokking trn. One variable may read and write, but other variables in the actor may read from it. Does "other variables" refer to aliases? If so, is that "no writing" rule enforced by compiler checks, or by aliasing it as val? Is there a simple example where I can see that in action?

00:33 <Schwarzbaer> Never mind the latter, I'm re-reading its entry under Aliasing, and it finally starts to make sense.

00:40 <Schwarzbaer> So... trn is mutable and unsendable, and can be aliased as box, which is immutable and unsendable. trn can be converted to a val, which is immutable and sendable, and that is safe because all references to the former trn are box, which are more restrictive than val... I think I finally start grokking refcaps, but it definitely has that "This was developed by aliens..." quality about it that my first impression of

00:40 <Schwarzbaer> Prolog gave me, too.

00:56 <winksaville> @SeanTAllen, got another HANG :(

00:57 <winksaville> I removed all debug and cleaned up my change to process_monitor.pony

00:57 <winksaville> Here (https://github.com/winksaville/ponyc/commits/support-openssl1.1-Fix-some-spurious-process-manager-test-failures) are the commits I'm testing

00:58 <winksaville> They passed my simple .travis.yml configuration (https://travis-ci.org/winksaville/ponyc/builds/321603882)

00:59 <winksaville> Here's a google doc file with notes I'm taking on the runs: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vZGKjitbQL-gi8xCdmLV1hXVKQZ3ej0vRlcJxRuGqrw/edit

01:04 <winksaville> In that google doc file is the gdb BackTraces for the three active threads. It looks the similar to the other hangs. Main thread is waiting to pthread_join, thread 2 is in run_thread and thread 3 is do_sigwait

01:24 <Schwarzbaer> "Chapter 7: Code Sharing" isn't a link for me, nor can I next-section into it.

01:39 <SeanTAllen> @winksaville can you open an issue?

01:39 <SeanTAllen> @Schwarzbaer yes, code sharing doesnt exist yet

01:42 <SeanTAllen> Schwarzbaer: can you open an issue on the tutorial to clarify the "what counts as making an alias?"

01:44 <Schwarzbaer> Woah! You mean I'm on to something here? I thought this was a PEBKAC problem. ^^ Sure.

01:54 <Schwarzbaer> Actually my initial assertion that iso can't be aliased is incorrect, after all, there's tag. However the whole chapter is a bit fuzzy on objects that are not just values...

02:03 <Schwarzbaer> So... Quiescence and program termination... :) I assume a program terminates when no message remains to be processed, and no behavior is running anymore? Also that things like open sockets keep the program running nevertheless?

02:18 <SeanTAllen> Schwarzbaer: yes, i think that the section is unclear re: aliasing. it could be interpreted in numerous ways

02:18 <SeanTAllen> Schwarzbaer: yes, thats when quiescence can happen

02:20 <Schwarzbaer> Hm... That kind of implies "There's also other conditions under which it can happen", but since you've apparently explained it quite often already, I'll patiently wait until it'll be a tutorial section.

02:22 <Schwarzbaer> There's a similar thing with `use` and the scheme specifier, though. The tutorial states that `package` is the default one, but makes no mention of what others there are, whether there currently are any others at all, or whether this is just a matter of "If something comes up later, we'll plug it in here".

14:29 <koczurekk> Hi, I've got a problem with linking. :( Tutorial says the following: 'it may be necessary to look in extra places. The use "path:..." command allows this'

14:29 <koczurekk> But when I add 'use "path:/src/main/lib"' to my code the default path isn't used at all.

14:29 <koczurekk> So I get a lot of linking errors.

14:31 <koczurekk> Oh, nevermind, that's not it.

14:31 <koczurekk> I mean, it still doesn't work, but that's not the reason.

14:31 <koczurekk> I'll post a link to pastebin in a moment.

14:42 <koczurekk> https://pastebin.com/WxpA8H8p

14:46 <koczurekk> I'm using latest docker image btw

17:21 <winksaville> @SeanTAllen, I'll create an issue on the hang.

17:57 <SeanTAllen> Pony 0.21.2 has been released. Upgrading is recommended: https://www.ponylang.org/blog/2017/12/0.21.2-released/

18:36 <winksaville> Created "stdlib in a loop hangs #2451"

19:52 <vaninwagen> koczurekk, on which platform did have your linking issues? which compiler did you use? and what is the content of /src/main/lib ?

21:13 <Dimonax> Anyone put up a page of complete examples for the Pony language?

21:13 <Dimonax> Just curious.

21:46 <koczurekk> Hi, I can't get returning structs from C to work, is this supported?

21:46 <koczurekk> I'll work it out if works and it's my mistake, I just want to know if it's allowed at all.

21:47 <koczurekk> I'm using latest compiler.

23:59 <Schwarzbaer> Dimonax, https://www.ponylang.org/community/planet-pony/ mentions a blog article that dissects an echo service. There's Wallaroo, which is probably already a bit too large to just read through in an afternoon. Other than that, I for one have no idea.