#ocaml on 2020-02-05 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2019-09-26 12:04 adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.09 release notes: https://caml.inria.fr/pub/distrib/ocaml-4.09/notes/Changes | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml

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10:54 <m_oss> Hi OCaml! I've only recently started using this language, and I am really into it! However, I stumbled upon a surprising block - the yaml parsing library fails for bigger yaml file. It was a surprise as yaml is quite popular and I'd expect such functionality is bullet proof considering how mature OCaml libraries are. I went after it and found out ocaml-yaml is using libyaml C library in a way that free'd memory is being written on during

10:54 <m_oss> parsing. I fixed the bug and posted a PR, I've also sent emails to maintainers listed in opam, but without any response. I want to ask how to escalate this? For one, this is a major language usability problem, two, this could maybe be a security concern (I believe it is not, as freed memory is only read and then allocated again in small chunks, so user provided input is not getting written on this freed memory, but I am not an expert to

10:54 <m_oss> exclude that this could be exploitable - for instance by remote attacker who would send a big yaml file as an input to the app).

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10:55 <m_oss> The pull requests are here: https://github.com/avsm/ocaml-yaml/pulls

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10:59 <theblatte> m_oss: you could try posting in the discuss forum to get more eyes on this, not sure how long is considered too long for the PR to sit around without a response

11:00 <zozozo> m_oss: you could try posting on the discuss forum ( https://discuss.ocaml.org/ )

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11:00 <zozozo> oops, wasn't fast enough, XD

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11:00 <theblatte> haha :)

11:00 <def`> m_oss: avsm usually handle that kind of tasks quickly. If he didn't answer he is probably not available now but will handle this soon.

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11:08 <m_oss> Okay if he's known to be active then lets wait - I didn't know if this is not an abandoned package, and maybe OCaml people just shun yaml ??

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11:12 <def`> I don't think yaml is very popular.

11:13 <def`> here* :P

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11:34 <Armael> yea I think people try to avoid using yaml if they can get away with it :p

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11:37 <m_oss> Why? definitely nicer then json, which does not even support comments

11:38 <m_oss> what would be the ocaml syntax of choice for a structured config file ?

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11:39 * hannes has an opinion here which may be not mainstream (yet?): ASN.1 -- schema is known upfront, extensible, typed tag/length/value encoding (and even available targeting minimal binary encodings) :D

11:40 <m_oss> and for human writable config file ?

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11:40 <m_oss> say I want to implement kubernetes management tool in ocaml, and need to accept structured data similar to what docker-composer and k8s resource files support

11:41 <zozozo> well, some tools in the ecosystem have chosen s-expressions

11:41 <zozozo> (e.g. dune)

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11:42 <hannes> m_oss: i'm curious what that means -- does it mean "i want to allow any garbage in my config file and deal with it"? tbh, i'm not a big fan of allowing anything in a configuration file -> requiring asn.1 means you've tooling for the human-readable/writable to config file part <- and this already checks the syntax :)

11:43 <m_oss> I mean I understand the point that you don't want to mess with all the 'a option types...

11:44 <m_oss> But there is a culture at least in unix world of human readable/writable config files

11:44 <m_oss> And I'm not defending it as something good - just acknowledging it is this way

11:45 <Armael> i don't know anything about asn.1, but I thought it was mostly for binary formats, eg network packages and such

11:45 <hannes> hmm, turns out there's an orchestration system (for MirageOS unikernels) that actually uses asn.1 encodings https://github.com/hannesm/albatross (and embeds virtual machine images into x509 certificates)

11:45 <Armael> is that incorrect?

11:46 <m_oss> Well maybe given a good asn.1 editor configuration could be config file in asn.1 + some schema info file in another file

11:46 <m_oss> and then the user would do vim-asn --schema /usr/share/webapp/config.schema /etc/webapp.conf

11:46 <Armael> wrt config files I think toml is also an ok format, but unfortunately the ocaml library for it was meh last time I checked

11:47 <hannes> Armael: it was developed by ITU (telecommunication), and is a general tag/length/value grammar description. it is used for some network protocols, x509 certificates, and snmp (simple network monitoring protocol) in so-called MIB (which are the schema)

11:47 <Armael> afaik some people dislike yaml because is a bit of a crazy/overengineered and underspecified format

11:47 <hannes> m_oss: yes, exactly

11:47 <m_oss> hannes: any editors you know for asn.1 ?

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11:48 <m_oss> there must be an emacs plugin... :P

11:48 <hannes> m_oss: i have not used any public ones. i have a partial emacs mode for my own usage, and saw some commercial ones...

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11:48 <Armael> ah I see how it requires some editor support then

11:50 <m_oss> ok sounds like a project for elisp ppl

11:50 <m_oss> encoding/decoding on open/save is easy but getting syntax checking and maybe completion working is a bit more of work

11:50 <Armael> (one thing I dislike about sexp is that they are somehow "too loose", i.e. there are several ways of encoding records and sum types, and they're by default more ambiguous than more structured formats if you don't provide a schema)

11:51 <kvik> only thing worse than a configuration file is a configuration file requiring fancy editor plugins. if you'll excuse me the outflow.

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11:53 <flux> Armael: I agree that that's a problem. usually there remains no space for expansion after the initial setup, unless you've planned ahead.

11:53 <m_oss> kvik, hahaha yeah true - XML everywhere was one of the reasons I left Java world

11:54 <flux> in that aspect json is nice, because it's easy to go from string to dictionary to array in the format, the parsing end can easily distinguish between the forms

11:54 <flux> XML is sort of even better at this. perhaps too good.

11:58 <m_oss> XML is suffering

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12:01 <m_oss> completely unrelated: I must say that I was very impressed by the talk on 36c3 on Unikernels and MirageOS, especially the aspect of low resource consumption of such systems. In times when there is a lot of talk about planetary resources vs wastefulness of technology (eg Bitcoin, streaming), seeing OCaml making low-resource usage one of its goals is amazing. And I think this is a great point to advocate for OCaml everywhere.

12:02 <Armael> :-)

12:02 <hannes> m_oss: thanks :) though I as well still see various improvements to-be-done on that side, and "more fair measurements" (i.e. actual power consumption, not virtual CPU ticks and assuming that a tick equals a concrete energy consumption)

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12:23 <pablo[m]3> Hey peeps! I just wrote my very first OCaml program! Unfurtunatelly it doesn't work hehe. Could anybody take a look to help me figure out the issue? It's only 70 lines long. Also, let me know how idiomatic the code is and how I could improve it 😁

12:23 <pablo[m]3> https://github.com/GarkGarcia/A-Conjecture-of-Mine/blob/ocaml/OCaml/main.ml

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12:25 <pablo[m]3> <pablo[m]3 "Hey peeps! I just wrote my very "> On regards to the program not working, I belive the error has something to do the calls to `Event.send`, `Event.sync` or `Thread.exit`.

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12:36 <m_oss> pablo[m]3, maybe use opportunity to run it with ocamldebug - you can step through the program forward and backwards (which is magic BTW)

12:37 <m_oss> (sorry for not answering directly)

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12:55 <pablo[m]3> <m_oss "@pablo, maybe use opportunity to"> Thanks for the tip, I'll try it out!

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13:04 <octachron> pablo[m]3, you are a missing a Event.sync when sending the thread local result. But anyway, using threads here is pointless since only one thread will run at a time.

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13:05 <octachron> In term of idioms, you should use Arg (the stdlib module) or cmdliner for reading the argument

13:05 <octachron> and you don't need to use while loops and references.

13:08 <pablo[m]3> <octachron "@pablo, you are a missing a Even"> Ohhhh, I see. Thanks! Why will only one thread run at a time? I understand they won't run in parallel, but I thought they'd run concurrently atleast.

13:09 <pablo[m]3> <octachron "In term of idioms, you should us"> Alright.

13:10 <octachron> The threads won't run parallely, so you are complexifying the logic for no benefits.

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13:30 <pablo[m]3> <octachron "The threads won't run parallely,"> The fact that there's no parallelism going on does not mean there won't be performance benefits. Arguably it's not worth it, because of the complexit introduced as you said.

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13:47 <octachron> Except that you are not releasing the runtime lock and the threads set-up and synchronisation has a cost. So there is a performance degradation rather than a benefit.

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