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<Leonidas>
Developing OCaml on Windows is possible? That sounds like a world of pain
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<def`>
Leonidas: this is work in progress. David Allsop has been working hard to make that possible.
<def`>
First-class opam and merlin support is close
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<yawaramin_>
Leonidas: it's also the majority of developers and any new initiative to attract developers to OCaml will bring Windows devs.
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<yawaramin_>
(who will then likely leave)
<adrien>
Leonidas: is the issue you see with "on" or "for" windows?
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<apatil>
Hi all, I could use some help with an ocamlbuild issue. I am trying to compile a bytecode executable that depends on Asttypes, among other modules. If I run utop and #require "ppx_tools.metaquot" it brings Asttypes into scope. Also, if I compile my source to a .cma with
<apatil>
I get 'Error: Required module `Asttypes' is unavailable'. The commands generated by ocamlbuild are almost identical except that in the .cma case it uses the -a option whereas in the -byte case it uses the -linkpkg option.
<apatil>
What am I missing?
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<Leonidas>
adrien: I think development on windows is such a pain in any language that I don't see how anyone could endure that.
<def`>
"using windows is such a pain ..."
<yawaramin_>
the truth is lots of devs happily use Windows for lots of languages--JavaScript, Java, C#, Haskell, Rust, C/C++/D ... the list goes on. when they come to OCaml they immediately get stuck. not a good onboarding story.
<Leonidas>
I know zero Haskell-Developers using Windows.
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<def`>
apatil: how does your code make use of Asttypes? As Asttypes is a "interface"-only module, there are some things which cannot be done with it.
<Leonidas>
The problem arises as soon as you want to compile any c stub
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<yawaramin_>
the question is not how many Haskell developers there are on Windows (whether you know of them or not), the question is how many folks are coming to OCaml because of cool new tech coming out of the ecosystem and then noping out when they see no Windows support.
<Leonidas>
I see much bigger issues in ocaml than windows support or not
<yawaramin_>
(i realise OCaml also has that. it's just beside my original point)
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<yawaramin_>
of course every language has issues but a basic issue is can someone actually even install the toolchain (incl. editor support) with a reasonable amount of effort.
<Leonidas>
(And the Haskell Windows support looks just as uninviting as the OCaml Windows support)
<Leonidas>
I mean, sure, whatever floats your boat :)
<Leonidas>
anyone knows how I can share a module between two (executable) targets in jbuilder?
<yawaramin_>
i don't know if you're misunderstanding me or what, my point is not 'Haskell is better at OCaml on Windows', my point is that OCaml's onboarding for Windows devs is pretty much non-existent right now.
<maelkum>
if I may interrupt; many languages (I guess) don't have "good" (by whatever standard) Windows support
<maelkum>
if you're not part of a cool-club of some IDE (VS, Eclipse, etc.) you're gonna have a bad time
<def`>
yawaramin_: As I said, David Allsop made a lot of progresses on that, but it is not released yet
<rgrinberg>
Leonidas easiest is to create a library out of that module. Otherwise, you can mess around with copy rules
<yawaramin_>
maelkum i realise that lots of languages don't have good Windows support. do you agree that every language that wants to be used in enterprise needs to have good Windows support?
<yawaramin_>
def` thanks i know about David's good work there, and i look forward to its release
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<maelkum>
depending on how you define by "enterprise"
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<maelkum>
if that's writing desktop software used by, say, accounting - then yes, by all means you must have good windows support
<maelkum>
but if you're more interested in research, embedded software, or other niches then not so much
<yawaramin_>
yes, i mean writing line-of-business apps
<maelkum>
ok, then I definitely agree
<yawaramin_>
so, back to my original point, i know it's theoretically possible to forward commands and messages back and forth between a Windows machine and a Docker container, the concept is like SSHing in to a virtual machine running locally.
<yawaramin_>
someone on the ReasonML discord mentioned they use the Docker approach for hacklang. just wondering if anyone here has it used for OCaml.
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<apatil>
def` It needs Asttypes to generate some of the types in Parsetree, eg Parsetree.type_declaration has a field 'ptype_name' whose type is from Asttypes
<adrien>
Leonidas: the thing is that you'd have to do less _on_ windows when doing _for_ windows
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<octachron>
apatil, did you alias the Asttypes module at some point (e.g. "module A=Asttypes")?
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<apatil>
octachron I did!
<apatil>
octachron: Removing the aliases took care of the errors. How on earth did you know, and what was the problem with the aliases?
<octachron>
apatil, unfortunately aliasing mli-only module is a bit complex right now; you can do it with "module rec A: module type of Asttypes = A"
<octachron>
apatil, aliasing was one of problematic things with mli-only modules that def mentioned
<apatil>
Got it. Thanks!
<octachron>
the problem is that these mli-only modules provides only an interface file and not any kind of implementations
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<apatil>
And the implementation is provided by the compiler at link time, or something like that?
<octachron>
no there is no implementation at all, this works most of the time when a module contains only type definitions
<octachron>
since types do not exists at runtime and thus do not require implementations; but module aliases require a full module not half of a module, thus the sibylline error
<apatil>
I see. Out of curiosity, when you say it's a bit complex right now, do you mean there is a fix of some kind planned?
<yawaramin_>
could the fix be to simply duplicate the type definitions in corresponding .ml files?
<octachron>
apatil, not yet afaik :(; but I do believe that it ought to be fixed
<octachron>
yawaramin_, creating a mirror ml file does fix the problem, but it does not answer the question "are lone mli file valid/supported or not?"
<yawaramin_>
i think a fix is more important right now :-)
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<def`>
aliasing of mli-only modules, it was this case I was thinking of but I forgot the exact condition to trigger the error!
<def`>
it should be fixed yes :/
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<apatil>
Thanks for the help octachron def` and yawaramin_ !
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<argent_smith>
ppl, does anyone have an idea how to make merlin understand effects in Multicore?
<kakadu>
it should be not really easy
<kakadu>
you need to start from fixing menhir parser for ocaml
<kakadu>
but I'm kind of interested in merlin with effects
<argent_smith>
mommy! I just wanted to make that effects tutorial )))
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<argent_smith>
btw who knows what's type of (continue k x)
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<zozozo>
well, that would be the return type of the continuation, no ?
<zozozo>
er.. I mean the effect
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<def`>
argent_smith: which ocaml switch are you using?
<argent_smith>
4.02 multicore — built it for exercising
<argent_smith>
in one example I see `(continue k s) s`
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<argent_smith>
why extra s if (continue k s) continues itself? looks like in the example (continue k s) returns a function
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<def`>
If I have time, I will look into making a merlin works with effect ocaml :P
<def`>
that*
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<Leonidas>
rgrinberg: yep, that works, thanks!
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