adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml MOOC http://1149.fr/ocaml-mooc | OCaml 4.02.3 announced http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<Algebr`> aantron: going to an emacs hackathoin and I'm gonna focus on merlin
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<aantron> oh
<aantron> ill PR it. thanks though :)
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<def`> aantron: yes, rks and I are developing merlin
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<adrien> I'm getting such errors:
<adrien> % file ./ocamlbuild
<adrien> ./ocamlbuild: a /home/adrien/wb/build/win-builds/deps/prefix/bin/ocamlrun script executable (binary data)
<adrien> % ./ocamlbuild
<adrien> Fatal error: the file './ocamlbuild' is not a bytecode executable file
<adrien> and I get the same for other tools (like ocamlc) on 4.03
<adrien> any idea what could be the cause? note that I'm possibly doing weird build system things
<adrien> woo, found: build of ocamlbuild was picking up the wrong compiler
<adrien> (I have a chain of four of them in total...
<adrien> )
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<adrien> woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<turbopape> Ooops you scared me !
<adrien> :)
<adrien> finally got cross-compiler to windows with 4.03.0 beta1
<Anarchos> adrien congratulations
<orbitz> I wonder how hard it would be to make some kind of type annotation that guarantees a value is immutable
<orbitz> adrien: Nice
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<Anarchos> orbitz you will end like hongwei xi ....
<orbitz> Anarchos: ATS?
<orbitz> Specifically I'm thinking for multicore it would be nice to mak eit so only immutable things can pass between whatever unit of parallel work is
<orbitz> I don't know what the multicore work is doing though
<orbitz> any good way to keep up with the active multicore work?
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<flux> uh oh, again a pause of one month in ocaml-multicore commits!
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<orbitz> oh noes
<orbitz> flux: have you been following ocaml-multicore much/
<flux> not really
<flux> sometimes I check the most recent commit log messages :)
<orbitz> flux: do you have any idea what they are doing to not make the memory model pure insanity?
<flux> what is the pure insanity part?
<orbitz> like teh C++ or Java memory model in the face of threads is near impossible to understand
<flux> I would certainly hope "use mutexes and everything is just fine" would work ;)
<orbitz> You need to understand when writes will actually be seena cross threads, it's easy to do operations which make values make no sense.
<flux> (of course, preferably use message passing)
<orbitz> No, mutexes suck
<flux> certainly there can be no problems if all you do is pass immutable messages
<orbitz> At several State of the union messages, a big thing Xavier brought up was trying ot avoid a memory model as insane as Java's. It'd be a shame if, after all this time, we got something just as bad.
<flux> you're afraid of seeing half-constructed objects?
<orbitz> It's difficult to enumerate all the things I'm afraid of given a complicated memory model
<Anarchos> what about the old multithreaded GC from the original Damien Doligez's thesis ?
<orbitz> I wa shoping that after all these years, someone would have figured out a way to give Ocaml what Haskell has for parallelism.
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<orbitz> hi dsheets, have you been following multicore well?
<ggole_> OCaml doesn't have linearity or purity to save it from the madness
<orbitz> ggole_: Indeed, which is why I'm curious exactly how multicore is attacking it. Do you know?
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<ggole_> Nope.
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<mrvn> Any ideas how to solve a type recursion between a class and external functions nicely? https://gist.github.com/mrvn/8669a1b08deed554b829
<ggole_> Recursive module?
<mrvn> .oO(I did say nicely, didn't I? :)
<ggole_> Yeah :(
<ggole_> OCaml's top level mutual recursion seems rather misdesigned to me
<ggole_> If you want a mixture of modules, classes, types etc to mutually recur you get to jump through ridiculous hoops
<mrvn> yeah, let rec ... should allow classes
<ggole_> Recursive modules allow arbitrary mutual recursion between all forms, which is why I suggested them
<mrvn> they also require a full signature so all the type inference goes out the window.
<ggole_> Yep
<mrvn> hard to read too
<ggole_> And occasionally they refuse to compile
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<mrvn> method centralWidget : 'd OWidget.oWidget OWidget.oWidget
<mrvn> The method centralWidget has type 'd OWidget.oWidget OWidget.oWidget where 'd is unbound. Is there a way to make that allowed?
<mrvn> I realy have no idea what 'd might be. It should be left ubound and unbindable.
<mrvn> Works fine as function but not as method.
<mrvn> small example: class foo = object method any x = Obj.magic x end;;
<malc_> mrvn: I think Jacques Garrigue is your man for those questions
<ggole_> class foo = object method any : 'a 'b . 'a -> 'b = fun x -> Obj.magic x end
<mrvn> *slap* I added the "'d ." in the signature but not in the actualy class.
<mrvn> Here is an error I have never seen before: type t = unit oMainWindow oMainWindow
<mrvn> Error: This type unit should be an instance of type 'a C.oMainWindow
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<mrvn> I remember something about errors when a method of "class ['a] foo" uses a "'b foo" then type inference guesses 'a == 'b. But I can't find how to solve that. Ideas?
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<ggole_> More info?
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<mrvn> method setCentralWidget : 'b . 'b OWidget.oWidget -> unit = fun w -> let widget_proxy = w#proxy in E.setCentralWidget proxy widget_proxy
<mrvn> Error: This method has type 'a OWidget.oWidget OWidget.oWidget -> unit which is less general than 'b. 'b OWidget.oWidget -> unit
<mrvn> val setCentralWidget : 'a C.oMainWindow Proxy.t -> 'b OWidget.oWidget Proxy.t -> unit
<mrvn> I think the "w#proxy" makes ocaml think 'a == 'b
<ggole_> Looks like it isn't polymorphic enough
<ggole_> (Programming with these half-assed rank-n types is a pain in OCaml.)
<mrvn> class ['a] oClass (proxy : 'a Proxy.t) = object(self : 'self) val proxy = proxy method proxy = proxy end
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<mrvn> Woth OMainWindow and OWidget are based on OClass eventually.
<mrvn> Both
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<ggole_> Yeah, that won't satisfy a forall constraint
<mrvn> which part?
<ggole_> Here's a short example of the problem:
<ggole_> type t = { id : 'a . 'a -> 'a } let test = function (f : 'a -> 'a) -> { id = f }
<ggole_> This won't type check because of pretty much the same problem
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<ggole_> forall means that type variables *must* be rigidly polymorphic: the caller of test cannot be allowed to select any particular type for 'a (it would be unsound), which is why it is rejected
<mrvn> I'm not selecting anyway.
<ggole_> You might be able to use a wrapper record to provide the polymorphism
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<ggole_> (You need the wrapper because OCaml requires that all such polymorphism be in record fields or object methods.)
<ggole_> That is, something like type poly_widget = { 'a . 'a OWidget.oWidget }
<ggole_> Er, but with a field name -_-
<mrvn> It's not polymorphic
<mrvn> It takes any 'a widget but w#proxy is not polymorphic. It has the given type 'a.
<mrvn> At the bottom you see a simple test case. somehow there it works.
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<mrvn> args, never mind. setCentralWidget simply shouldn't have a 'b.
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<mrvn> no, still not it.
<tobiasBora> Hello,
<tobiasBora> I would like to know, if there a way to implement a fold function in a object function so that the result hasn't always the same type ?
<tobiasBora> If I do something like " method fold f init = Hashtbl.fold f tbl init"
<tobiasBora> then I have an error message The method fold has type (var_id -> Formula.var -> 'a -> 'a) -> 'a -> 'a where 'a is unbound
<tobiasBora> I could force the type of 'a, or parametrize it
<tobiasBora> but after I think that once I will use fold one time, the return type will always be the same...
<ggole_> tobiasBora: use a polymorphism annotation
<ggole_> method fold : 'a . <type here> = fun fold f init -> ...
<mrvn> ggole_: The problem is the recursive module: https://gist.github.com/mrvn/8669a1b08deed554b829
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<ggole_> Hmm.
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<mrvn> hah, got it.
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<mrvn> "method with_foo : 'b . 'b foo foo" and the right constraint on the class 'a itself.
<mrvn> I hate doing type inference on objects myself.
<mrvn> Surprisingly that simple file actually takes noticable time to compile.
<ggole_> Yeah, recursive modules aren't really very nice
<mrvn> I wonder: When I connect one widgets signal to another widgets slot should that keep the widgets alive as long as one lives? Or should that be a Weak.t?
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<tobiasBora> ggole_: It works, great, thank you !
<tobiasBora> ggole_: the 'a . is like "for all type 'a ... " right ?
<ggole_> Yep
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<tobiasBora> Ok thank you !
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<mrvn> Anyone have a bit of myocamlbuild.ml source that uses "ocamlc -i" to save the infered types?
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<octachron> mrvn, ocamlbuild *.inferred.mli does not work for you?
<mrvn> Ocamlbuild cannot find or build *.inferred.mli. A file with such a name would usually be a source file. I suspect you have given a wrong target name to Ocamlbuild.
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<octachron> even with expanding the glob pattern?
<mrvn> Ocamlbuild cannot find or build OMainWindow.inferred.mli. A file with such a name would usually be a source file. I suspect you have given a wrong target name to Ocamlbuild.
<mrvn> I'm using oasis and tried: ocaml setup.ml -build OMainWindow.inferred.mli
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<octachron> mrvn, it seems that oasis doesn't pass the right options onto ocamlbuild, depending on what you need, you could call ocamlbuild directly
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<mrvn> % ocamlbuild OMainWindow.inferred.mli
<mrvn> Solver failed: Ocamlbuild cannot find or build OMainWindow.inferred.mli. A file with such a name would usually be a source file. I suspect you have given a wrong target name to Ocamlbuild.
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<xvw> Hi
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<beginner> is there some minimal example how to use bin_prot?
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<orbitz> Where does ocamlnet fit in with Lwt and Async?
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<jyc> orbitz: it doesn't require either of them
<jyc> its a pretty big collection of stuff and I haven't used most of it, but there is useful stuff in there for HTML parsing etc.
<orbitz> is it complimentary? I sit like a 3rd concurrency option?
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<seangrove> Algebr`: Do you have a good example of calling objective-c functions from ocaml? Looking through Tallgeese, but having a hard time finding anything
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<flux> orbitz, I don't think ocamlnet provides anything in the concurrency part, except for multiprocessing
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<flux> orbitz, if you use ocamlnet in a concurrent setting, you're expected to use possible the OCaml Thread module
<flux> afaik it doesn't support any monadic concurency
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<seangrove> Algebr`: Also, the example server works on the non-Jailbroken iphone just fine, not killed at all :)
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<beginner> how can i use ppx with obuild?
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<beginner> does obuild not allow to use ppx as preprocessor of choice?
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<Algebr`> seangrove: call objc from within a C function
<Algebr`> also, super awesome!
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<flux> mrvn, I feel like the answer would be in OCaml mailing list archives, but it's going to be very difficult to find it from there :)
<flux> what is this magic, caml mailing list archives have non-NaN timestamps?!
<flux> ah, those were till 2010 :)
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<flux> ..are there ocaml mailing list archives available?
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<flux> why of course, sympa.inria.fr is chosen to not let google visit its pages.
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<flux> and its search is completely useless or I don't know how to use it.
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<flux> and apparently the data is not provided as mail boxes. do I have permission to be annoyed of this level of informatino lock down?-(
<Drup> There is a thread about that :D
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<flux> I guess the heroic way to go about this would be to write a new mailing list archive front in eliom and point it to one's personal caml archive :)
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