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<
flux >
companion_cube, # module C = CCFQueue;; Error: Reference to undefined global `CCFQueue' :-(
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<
flux >
I have this perfectly working new code that compiles but doesn't link.. ;-)
04:41
<
flux >
same for native: Error: No implementations provided for the following modules: CCFQueue referenced from showFft.cmx
04:41
<
flux >
oooh, maybe I need to choose proper library to link..
04:42
<
flux >
yes! though I would prefer, if possible, a compilation error :)
04:42
<
flux >
thanks for help!
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<
companion_cube >
flux: #require "containers.data";;
08:07
<
companion_cube >
oh, you found out ^^
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<
ousado >
companion_cube: nice
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12:15
<
ousado >
I've been using libgit2 server-side, but it looks like this is an awesome alternative
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12:21
<
Drup >
that's very interesting
12:22
<
Drup >
(and I'm always plesently surprised when people outside of the ocsigen project use tyxml :D)
12:22
<
ousado >
also a very good example for js_of_ocaml usage
12:23
<
pippijn >
I made a gmail filter generator using xml-light
12:23
<
pippijn >
it's really very light
12:24
<
Drup >
pippijn: tyxml is not a library to manipulate xml
12:24
<
pippijn >
it's basically type t = PCData of string | Element of string * string list * t list + pretty printer + parser
12:24
<
pippijn >
Drup: I just need to generate it
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12:25
<
flux >
but xml-light uses Obj.magic :(
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12:25
<
pippijn >
flux: I can't even begin to imagine what it might need that for
12:25
<
Drup >
pippijn: My point is, the uses cases are completely different, really.
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12:26
<
Drup >
pippijn: go look at tyxml if you want to know, it's really not a general purpose xml transformation library
12:26
<
pippijn >
Drup: someday
12:26
<
flux >
pippijn, I
_think_ it may use it to have a 'none' value in a mutable field of a record and then introduce a non-none value to it
12:26
<
flux >
regardless: evil!
12:26
<
Drup >
flux: it's worse than that
12:26
<
flux >
drup, even worse?!
12:26
<
pippijn >
flux: why would it do that? for performance?
12:26
<
Drup >
it uses it to de-recursive some recursive modules
12:27
<
adrien_znc >
pippijn: but xml-light is buggy
12:27
<
pippijn >
recursive modules?
12:27
<
adrien_znc >
like really buggy
12:27
<
flux >
oh teh horrors
12:27
<
pippijn >
adrien_znc: yeah
12:27
<
pippijn >
adrien_znc: but it does what I need correctly
12:27
<
pippijn >
I picked the library that looked easiest to use
12:27
<
flux >
xmlm is nice, but slightly more overhead to take into use than xml-light
12:27
<
adrien_znc >
I actually wouldn't bet on it
12:27
<
adrien_znc >
it really has a few deep bugs
12:27
<
flux >
but I think xmlm has this robust feeling on it all around :)
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12:28
<
pippijn >
adrien_znc: they don't surface in my use case
12:28
<
flux >
someone(TM) should just write an xml-light wrapper to xmlm
12:28
<
Drup >
the issue with xmlm is that it's not very flexible to "fuzzy-xml"
12:28
<
flux >
drup, xml is not fuzzy?
12:28
<
flux >
oh you mean broken xml?-)
12:29
<
flux >
drup, but I guess it's not xml-light compatible api-wise
12:29
<
Drup >
not directly, but it's similar
12:29
<
flux >
but I should remember that the next time I want to do XML
12:29
<
flux >
which I hope will be in distant future 8-)
12:29
<
flux >
related: I just yesterday made use of the ppx_deriving_yojson. it's nice. BUT.
12:30
<
flux >
I don't much like how yojson is written, using the C preprocessor and copy-pasting code :/
12:30
<
flux >
and interfaces
12:30
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12:30
<
companion_cube >
I never understood why yojson would need biniou, too
12:30
<
flux >
I guess it's ok if I'm happy with what Yojson.Safe provides
12:31
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12:31
<
flux >
but I did try to add a new Yojson module that would use int64 instead of int.. and failed..
12:32
<
adrien_znc >
pippijn: they might be close to surface though :)
12:34
<
pippijn >
adrien_znc: possibly
12:35
<
pippijn >
is <foo bar="<>"/> valid xml?
12:35
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12:35
<
pippijn >
adrien_znc: well, that's a bug in xml-light
12:36
<
pippijn >
but I'm ok with that, I just put <> in, myself
12:36
<
pippijn >
I just didn't want to write the formatter
12:36
<
pippijn >
it's super simple code that produces gmail filter rules from an ocaml data structure
12:37
<
pippijn >
I just wanted a more composable and maintainable way to define my filters
12:39
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12:50
<
dmbaturin >
Is xml-light still maintained by the way?
12:51
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12:52
<
dmbaturin >
Why it's still in opam then?
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12:53
<
adrien_znc >
many things use it
12:53
<
adrien_znc >
but it really should be removed from everywhere
12:53
<
adrien_znc >
it's been a decade
12:56
<
dmbaturin >
Is it recommended to use avsm's ezxmlm instead of it is I want a quick and dirty XML manipulation library?
12:56
<
flux >
nah, for that you use regular expressions! (no idea, haven't used it, but I would seriously consider it)
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12:57
<
flux >
says it right there, "useful for quick scripts that manipulate XML" :)
12:57
<
dmbaturin >
flux: I'm already doing too many things that may potentially awaken the elders.
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<
dmbaturin >
I have to confess that just a few days ago I used xml-light for converting XML into an internal representation.
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13:14
<
ollehar >
I use xml-light
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13:15
<
dmbaturin >
ollehar: For historical reasons, or ezxmlm doesn't suit your purpose?
13:15
<
adrien_znc >
ollehar: migrate :P
13:15
<
ollehar >
for "top result on google" reasons
13:15
<
adrien_znc >
"xml ocaml"
13:16
<
ollehar >
"ocaml xml"
13:16
<
ollehar >
why fix it if it's not broken...?
13:17
<
ollehar >
a lot of pattern matching will have to be changed
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13:17
<
dmbaturin >
What happened to motion twin, by the way? Before 2006 they were rather technologically active it seems.
13:18
<
dmbaturin >
Now everything they made back then (hax, nekovm, ocaml libs etc.) seems abandoned.
13:18
<
ousado >
nekovm isn't abandoned
13:18
<
ousado >
neither is haxe
13:19
<
adrien_znc >
dmbaturin: "haxe"
13:19
<
adrien_znc >
which is written in ocaml
13:19
<
dmbaturin >
Yeah, missed a letter.
13:19
<
adrien_znc >
(and inspired a lot by it)
13:20
<
adrien_znc >
I meant, that's what happened to them :)
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<
dmbaturin >
Looking at haxe.org and their github, yeah, I have to retract the statement about haxe being abandoned.
13:25
<
ousado >
it's very active
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<
dmbaturin >
ousado: Are cross-platform GUI development capabilities any good now?
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<
dmbaturin >
ousado: I guess I should look into it again, thanks.
14:06
<
ousado >
haxe has become a very serious language, even from a ocaml/haskell POV
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<
ollehar >
ousado, but what's its "killer app"?
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14:18
<
ousado >
ollehar: as in a well known widely used application written in haxe?
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<
ousado >
not sure, Prezi perhaps
14:19
<
ollehar >
ousado: no, as in "ocaml is good for compilers, php for web, ..."
14:19
<
ollehar >
like, use-case, I don't know
14:19
<
ousado >
it's outstanding for web dev, for instance
14:19
<
ousado >
also, systems programming is coming
14:19
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14:21
<
ollehar >
but, is anything really unique with it?
14:21
<
ollehar >
seems like a collection of best-practice
14:21
<
adrien_znc >
you write, you build, and it works
14:22
<
adrien_znc >
ah, for haxe, not for ocaml, ok :P
14:22
* adrien_znc
goes back to sleep
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14:22
<
ousado >
I think the metaprogramming capabilities are quite unique
14:22
<
ousado >
and the x-platform support, obviously
14:24
<
ousado >
not sure where scalas macros are currently, but I'm pretty sure that for type-driven code generation, haxe is second to none
14:26
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14:26
<
ousado >
you can write a complete haxe target in haxe, for instance, that's how some of the more recent targets started
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14:32
<
ousado >
the only mildly sad thing is that the community (and hence libraries) haven't really caught up with what the language allows
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14:34
<
ousado >
(which unfortunately includes the std lib)
14:35
<
nicoo >
Sounds like Rust, but less exiting :P
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14:35
<
ousado >
hm, not sure about the less exciting part
14:35
* nicoo
plays some heavy metal next to the sleeping adrien_znc
14:36
<
nicoo >
ousado: Well, Rust is pretty unique, from a design standpoint
14:36
<
dmbaturin >
A carefully made tool that allows you to forget what platform you are on is quite exciting actually. The measure of how exicting is how carefully it's made. :)
14:36
<
ousado >
in what way?
14:37
<
ggole >
Seems to me things like Cyclone and ATS have already mapped out much of the territory Rust tries to cover
14:37
<
ggole >
Not necessarily in such an appealing way, though.
14:38
<
nicoo >
ggole: Not really. Esp. since ATS' type system doesn't enforce memory safety ...
14:38
<
nicoo >
(or at least the type given for the unsafe parts of the stdlib don't)
14:39
<
ousado >
rust also has unsafe "regions" or however they call it
14:40
<
nicoo >
Yes, but it (tries to) guarantee that if you don't use unsafe yourself, things won't go bad
14:40
<
nicoo >
In ATS, it's not the case
14:40
<
ousado >
ATS does that too
14:40
<
quaranterieur >
nicoo: rust is completely unrelated to haxe
14:40
<
quaranterieur >
they don't try to solve the same problems at all
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14:41
<
nicoo >
quaranterieur: I know. I was just commenting on the « great language but the community and stdlib haven't caught up with best practices yet »
14:41
<
ousado >
no, it's not, in fact, the (unfinished) C target will be highly Rust related
14:41
<
ggole >
A fully memory safe subset is a nice thing indeed
14:41
<
ggole >
But there's definitely overlap between Rust and ATS
14:42
<
quaranterieur >
nicoo: ah, I didn't understand it that way. ok then
14:42
<
nicoo >
ousado: ATS has had long standing issues where you can segfault a program that doesn't use unsafe, IIRC because some part of the stdlib have unsound types
14:42
<
dmbaturin >
What I find fun is that everyone is talking about Rust, while ATS and Cyclone went completely unnoticed by a wide audience rather than PLT people.
14:43
<
ousado >
I've never experienced those, and didn't read much (if anything) about those issues on the mailing list
14:43
<
nicoo >
ggole: There is some overlap, the same way OCaml and Coq overlap. Yet I wouldn't do my OCaml programming in Coq (and conversly)
14:43
<
ggole >
Rust is doing the right things to attract people
14:43
<
nicoo >
ousado: Was quite some time ago, they might have finally fixed them, then
14:43
<
nicoo >
ggole: No. It lacks GADTs :P
14:44
<
ousado >
Haxe doesn't lack GADTs :)
14:44
<
ggole >
And HKTs, etc
14:44
<
dmbaturin >
ggole: What kind of things?
14:44
<
ggole >
Package management, documentation, helpful people being around, etc
14:45
<
ousado >
being Mozilla certainly also helps
14:45
<
nicoo >
It's really easy to get into the language's dev process too
14:45
<
ggole >
Yeah. This is important stuff for adoption.
14:45
<
nicoo >
ousado: Actually, not that many Rust people are MozCo employees
14:45
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14:45
<
dmbaturin >
I would think those things happen because there is a big community, and there's a community because it's made by a big name.
14:46
<
ousado >
well, it certainly helps
14:46
<
ousado >
if Haxe was made by google, everyone would use it
14:46
<
dmbaturin >
Go is popular even though there are no reasons for it (IMHO) to be.
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14:47
<
adrien_znc >
noone was ever fired for chosing google?
14:48
<
ggole >
Things aren't popular for no reason
14:49
<
ggole >
Although they can be popular for reasons that you don't agree with :)
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14:50
<
Drup >
I agree with the meta programming stuff in haxe
14:51
<
dmbaturin >
* I'm not saying the big name is the only reason for Rust popularity; just that without the big name it could easily share ATS's fate
14:51
<
Drup >
it's very badly advertised and not formally described anywhere, unfortunatly
14:51
<
Drup >
dmbaturin: there is a big difference with ATS: it was never intended to be used
14:51
<
Hannibal_Smith >
dmbaturin, ATS seems more difficult to use than Rust, and with not so clear syntaxt
14:55
<
dmbaturin >
Good point. Tools turning into something very different (for better or worse) when community starts using and improving them are a usual thing though.
14:55
<
ousado >
ATS2 seems on a good way, though
14:55
<
ousado >
but it's nothing for quickly writing down anything
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<
ousado >
ATS compiles to JS now O_O
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15:10
<
Drup >
everything compiles to js these days
15:10
<
Drup >
the question is "how terrible is the mapping from the usual semantic to the javascript semantic"
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15:13
<
ousado >
for (former) one-man shows like ATS I wouldn't have expected this
15:13
<
Drup >
Idris compiles to javascript too :p
15:13
<
ousado >
is Idris a one-man show?
15:14
<
Drup >
it was at the beginning, certainly
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15:25
<
companion_cube >
hmmm
15:26
<
companion_cube >
I don't think it can be adapted for Ocaml
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<
Drup >
I don't either
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<
pippijn >
Drup: what's strange is that the example at the end is suddenly lowercase strings, when the entire article was about positive numbers
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<
pippijn >
templatehaskell. hm
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18:52
<
Algebr >
I'm having difficulty querying a specific node in an xml document using xmlm. I have the Xmlm.input that came via string.
18:54
<
Algebr >
Was just wondering if anyone that was familiar with the library could suggest how to do it
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<
Algebr >
yes, looks nicer. thank you
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<
Algebr >
Xmlm is difficult for me to understand, it is one of the fancier libraries?
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20:17
<
n3ss3s >
Ugh, what in the world does >>= do? (Googling operators can be tricky)
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20:20
<
TheLemonMan >
n3ss3s, lift the lhs, feed it into the rhs and re-box the result
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20:25
<
Denommus >
n3ss3s: it's like a flatMap
20:25
<
smondet >
n3ss3s: usually `>>=` does the same things as the `bind` function in the same module
20:25
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20:25
<
smondet >
(like Lwt.bind, Result.bind, Option.bind, etc.)
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20:37
<
n3ss3s >
Gah, what would my pattern match look like for matching "(Response.t * Body.t) IO.t" (the result of a Cohttp_async.Client.get)
20:38
<
n3ss3s >
I tried (r: Response.t, b: Body.t) -> ... but it says ) expected after ctyp in patt
20:40
<
smondet >
n3ss3s: the precedence of `:` versus `,` is biting you, if you want the type annotation you need to ((id : type), (id2 : type2))
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<
tonyg >
What do people use for fast sets of strings? Just Set.Make(String), or is there something else out there faster/better?
20:54
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20:56
<
Drup >
Set.Make is fine for immutable sets
20:57
<
Drup >
for mutable sets, Hashtbl is usually the way
21:01
<
tonyg >
Drup: thanks. So there's nothing special-cased for strings that you know of for better performance than Set.Make(String)?
21:01
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21:01
<
n3ss3s >
sorry about the dc
21:02
<
Drup >
tonyg: no, and I don't see what special casing for string could bring to the table, performance wise
21:02
<
tonyg >
Drup: Thanks. Yeah, I'm thinking PATRICIA trees etc.
21:03
<
n3ss3s >
smondet: Ah, I see. What is the significance of the IO.t (or any type in this format where there's a space between types) here?
21:04
<
Drup >
tonyg: ah yes, you are right
21:04
<
Drup >
pretty sure there is prefix tree implementation in opam
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21:05
<
Drup >
does it matter if it's widely used ?
21:05
<
tonyg >
not as such, just a very rough proxy gauge for maturity/correctness etc.
21:06
<
Drup >
Not everybody need a high performance stringmap, most of the time, you don't really care, Set.Make is enough :)
21:06
<
tonyg >
Drup: totally, I agree.
21:06
<
tonyg >
My interest is in high-speed messaging middleware. I'm thinking about routing data structures.
21:06
<
Drup >
ahah, funny you said that
21:07
<
Drup >
I started working on that last week
21:08
<
Drup >
I was more concentrated on expressiveness and type safety
21:08
<
Drup >
so the routing part is ... let's say ad-hoc.
21:08
<
tonyg >
right. My particular interest is in AMQP-like (STOMP-like) pub/sub routing
21:08
<
Drup >
(I encode everything in Re and let it optimize the regexp to death)
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<
Drup >
but it would be better with some custom made decision tree
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<
n3ss3s >
oh, I see, the unfamiliar type just threw me off
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21:51
<
Denommus >
is there a company-mode backend for merlin?
21:51
<
Denommus >
sorry, there's an answer for that already
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21:52
<
Drup >
yes there is one
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21:56
<
Denommus >
Drup: is there a library that provides default implementations for the arrow functions provided a module with the minimal functions needed?
21:58
<
Drup >
functions for what ?
21:58
<
Drup >
Not as far as I know
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<
Denommus >
Drup: so
22:14
<
Denommus >
Drup: I just understood the reason for Netwire using an implicit either
22:15
<
Denommus >
Drup: ArrowZero and ArrowPlus
22:19
<
Denommus >
Drup: it needs a away to represent the concept of an empty Arrow, and in Netwire that would be WConst (Left mempty)
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<
Denommus` >
I just understood why Netwire uses an implicit Monoid e => Either e b instead of just using b
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22:24
<
Denommus` >
ArrowZero
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22:25
<
Denommus >
Drup: any ideas on an alternative way to represent an ArrowZero?
22:26
<
Drup >
is it important to be able to represent it in the context of OCaml ?
22:26
<
Drup >
I mean .. we don't really care, we don't have a generic arrow library
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<
Denommus >
Drup: I don't know, I guess you're right
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<
apache2 >
why do I need a .cmi file to compile a .ml when a .mli exists, but not without?
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<
apache2 >
and, related, how do I compile a .cmi file?
23:39
<
apache2 >
google says .cmi is a compiled interface file
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<
Drup >
you get a .cmi by compiling a .mli
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<
Drup >
which pretty much answer the other question
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<
apache2 >
oh, perfect. that worked. thanks a lot!
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