ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.1 announcement at http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<flux> companion_cube, # module C = CCFQueue;; Error: Reference to undefined global `CCFQueue' :-(
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<flux> I have this perfectly working new code that compiles but doesn't link.. ;-)
<flux> same for native: Error: No implementations provided for the following modules: CCFQueue referenced from showFft.cmx
<flux> oooh, maybe I need to choose proper library to link..
<flux> yes! though I would prefer, if possible, a compilation error :)
<flux> thanks for help!
<flux> ;)
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<companion_cube> flux: #require "containers.data";;
<companion_cube> oh, you found out ^^
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<ousado> companion_cube: nice
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<ousado> I've been using libgit2 server-side, but it looks like this is an awesome alternative
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<Drup> that's very interesting
<Drup> (and I'm always plesently surprised when people outside of the ocsigen project use tyxml :D)
<ousado> also a very good example for js_of_ocaml usage
<pippijn> I made a gmail filter generator using xml-light
<pippijn> it's really very light
<Drup> pippijn: tyxml is not a library to manipulate xml
<pippijn> it's basically type t = PCData of string | Element of string * string list * t list + pretty printer + parser
<pippijn> Drup: I just need to generate it
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<flux> but xml-light uses Obj.magic :(
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<pippijn> flux: I can't even begin to imagine what it might need that for
<Drup> pippijn: My point is, the uses cases are completely different, really.
<pippijn> Drup: ok
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<Drup> pippijn: go look at tyxml if you want to know, it's really not a general purpose xml transformation library
<pippijn> Drup: someday
<flux> pippijn, I _think_ it may use it to have a 'none' value in a mutable field of a record and then introduce a non-none value to it
<flux> regardless: evil!
<Drup> flux: it's worse than that
<flux> drup, even worse?!
<pippijn> flux: why would it do that? for performance?
<Drup> it uses it to de-recursive some recursive modules
<adrien_znc> pippijn: but xml-light is buggy
<pippijn> recursive modules?
<adrien_znc> like really buggy
<flux> oh teh horrors
<pippijn> adrien_znc: yeah
<pippijn> adrien_znc: but it does what I need correctly
<pippijn> I picked the library that looked easiest to use
<flux> xmlm is nice, but slightly more overhead to take into use than xml-light
<adrien_znc> I actually wouldn't bet on it
<adrien_znc> it really has a few deep bugs
<flux> but I think xmlm has this robust feeling on it all around :)
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<pippijn> adrien_znc: they don't surface in my use case
<flux> someone(TM) should just write an xml-light wrapper to xmlm
<Drup> the issue with xmlm is that it's not very flexible to "fuzzy-xml"
<flux> drup, xml is not fuzzy?
<flux> oh you mean broken xml?-)
<flux> drup, but I guess it's not xml-light compatible api-wise
<Drup> not directly, but it's similar
<flux> but I should remember that the next time I want to do XML
<flux> which I hope will be in distant future 8-)
<ousado> hehe
<flux> related: I just yesterday made use of the ppx_deriving_yojson. it's nice. BUT.
<flux> I don't much like how yojson is written, using the C preprocessor and copy-pasting code :/
<flux> and interfaces
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<companion_cube> I never understood why yojson would need biniou, too
<flux> I guess it's ok if I'm happy with what Yojson.Safe provides
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<flux> but I did try to add a new Yojson module that would use int64 instead of int.. and failed..
<adrien_znc> pippijn: they might be close to surface though :)
<pippijn> adrien_znc: possibly
<pippijn> is <foo bar="<>"/> valid xml?
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<pippijn> nope
<pippijn> adrien_znc: well, that's a bug in xml-light
<pippijn> but I'm ok with that, I just put &lt;&gt; in, myself
<pippijn> I just didn't want to write the formatter
<pippijn> it's super simple code that produces gmail filter rules from an ocaml data structure
<pippijn> I just wanted a more composable and maintainable way to define my filters
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<dmbaturin> Is xml-light still maintained by the way?
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<adrien_znc> a big
<adrien_znc> *NOµ
<adrien_znc> erf
<adrien_znc> *NO*
<dmbaturin> Why it's still in opam then?
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<adrien_znc> many things use it
<adrien_znc> but it really should be removed from everywhere
<adrien_znc> it's been a decade
<dmbaturin> Is it recommended to use avsm's ezxmlm instead of it is I want a quick and dirty XML manipulation library?
<flux> nah, for that you use regular expressions! (no idea, haven't used it, but I would seriously consider it)
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<flux> says it right there, "useful for quick scripts that manipulate XML" :)
<dmbaturin> flux: I'm already doing too many things that may potentially awaken the elders.
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<dmbaturin> I have to confess that just a few days ago I used xml-light for converting XML into an internal representation.
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<ollehar> I use xml-light
<ollehar> :(
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<dmbaturin> ollehar: For historical reasons, or ezxmlm doesn't suit your purpose?
<adrien_znc> ollehar: migrate :P
<ollehar> for "top result on google" reasons
<adrien_znc> "xml ocaml"
<adrien_znc> ?
<ollehar> "ocaml xml"
<ollehar> why fix it if it's not broken...?
<ollehar> but ok
<ollehar> hm
<ollehar> a lot of pattern matching will have to be changed
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<dmbaturin> What happened to motion twin, by the way? Before 2006 they were rather technologically active it seems.
<dmbaturin> Now everything they made back then (hax, nekovm, ocaml libs etc.) seems abandoned.
<ousado> nekovm isn't abandoned
<ousado> neither is haxe
<adrien_znc> dmbaturin: "haxe"
<adrien_znc> which is written in ocaml
<dmbaturin> Yeah, missed a letter.
<adrien_znc> (and inspired a lot by it)
<adrien_znc> I meant, that's what happened to them :)
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<dmbaturin> Looking at haxe.org and their github, yeah, I have to retract the statement about haxe being abandoned.
<ousado> it's very active
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<ousado> http://nadako.tumblr.com/post/113390739725/a-success-story-for-haxe#disqus_thread is a great post about a number of aspects in which it (somewhat uniquely) excels, if you're interested
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<dmbaturin> ousado: Are cross-platform GUI development capabilities any good now?
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<ousado> dmbaturin: there's http://haxeui.org/
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<dmbaturin> ousado: I guess I should look into it again, thanks.
<ousado> haxe has become a very serious language, even from a ocaml/haskell POV
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<ollehar> ousado, but what's its "killer app"?
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<ousado> ollehar: as in a well known widely used application written in haxe?
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<ousado> not sure, Prezi perhaps
<ollehar> ousado: no, as in "ocaml is good for compilers, php for web, ..."
<ollehar> like, use-case, I don't know
<ousado> it's outstanding for web dev, for instance
<ousado> also, systems programming is coming
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<ollehar> ok
<ollehar> but, is anything really unique with it?
<ollehar> seems like a collection of best-practice
<adrien_znc> you write, you build, and it works
<adrien_znc> ah, for haxe, not for ocaml, ok :P
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<ousado> I think the metaprogramming capabilities are quite unique
<ousado> and the x-platform support, obviously
<ousado> not sure where scalas macros are currently, but I'm pretty sure that for type-driven code generation, haxe is second to none
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<ousado> you can write a complete haxe target in haxe, for instance, that's how some of the more recent targets started
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<ollehar> ok
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<ousado> the only mildly sad thing is that the community (and hence libraries) haven't really caught up with what the language allows
<ousado> .. yet
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<ousado> (which unfortunately includes the std lib)
<nicoo> Sounds like Rust, but less exiting :P
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<ousado> hm, not sure about the less exciting part
* nicoo plays some heavy metal next to the sleeping adrien_znc
<nicoo> ousado: Well, Rust is pretty unique, from a design standpoint
<dmbaturin> A carefully made tool that allows you to forget what platform you are on is quite exciting actually. The measure of how exicting is how carefully it's made. :)
<ousado> in what way?
<ousado> nicoo: ^
<ggole> Seems to me things like Cyclone and ATS have already mapped out much of the territory Rust tries to cover
<ggole> Not necessarily in such an appealing way, though.
<nicoo> ggole: Not really. Esp. since ATS' type system doesn't enforce memory safety ...
<nicoo> (or at least the type given for the unsafe parts of the stdlib don't)
<nicoo> types*
<ousado> rust also has unsafe "regions" or however they call it
<nicoo> Yes, but it (tries to) guarantee that if you don't use unsafe yourself, things won't go bad
<nicoo> In ATS, it's not the case
<ousado> ATS does that too
<quaranterieur> nicoo: rust is completely unrelated to haxe
<quaranterieur> they don't try to solve the same problems at all
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<nicoo> quaranterieur: I know. I was just commenting on the « great language but the community and stdlib haven't caught up with best practices yet »
<ousado> no, it's not, in fact, the (unfinished) C target will be highly Rust related
<ggole> A fully memory safe subset is a nice thing indeed
<ggole> But there's definitely overlap between Rust and ATS
<quaranterieur> nicoo: ah, I didn't understand it that way. ok then
<nicoo> ousado: ATS has had long standing issues where you can segfault a program that doesn't use unsafe, IIRC because some part of the stdlib have unsound types
<dmbaturin> What I find fun is that everyone is talking about Rust, while ATS and Cyclone went completely unnoticed by a wide audience rather than PLT people.
<ousado> I've never experienced those, and didn't read much (if anything) about those issues on the mailing list
<nicoo> ggole: There is some overlap, the same way OCaml and Coq overlap. Yet I wouldn't do my OCaml programming in Coq (and conversly)
<ggole> Rust is doing the right things to attract people
<nicoo> ousado: Was quite some time ago, they might have finally fixed them, then
<nicoo> ggole: No. It lacks GADTs :P
<ousado> Haxe doesn't lack GADTs :)
<ggole> And HKTs, etc
<dmbaturin> ggole: What kind of things?
<ggole> Package management, documentation, helpful people being around, etc
<ousado> being Mozilla certainly also helps
<nicoo> It's really easy to get into the language's dev process too
<ggole> Yeah. This is important stuff for adoption.
<nicoo> ousado: Actually, not that many Rust people are MozCo employees
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<dmbaturin> I would think those things happen because there is a big community, and there's a community because it's made by a big name.
<ousado> well, it certainly helps
<ousado> if Haxe was made by google, everyone would use it
<dmbaturin> Go is popular even though there are no reasons for it (IMHO) to be.
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<adrien_znc> noone was ever fired for chosing google?
<ggole> Things aren't popular for no reason
<ggole> Although they can be popular for reasons that you don't agree with :)
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<Drup> I agree with the meta programming stuff in haxe
<dmbaturin> * I'm not saying the big name is the only reason for Rust popularity; just that without the big name it could easily share ATS's fate
<Drup> it's very badly advertised and not formally described anywhere, unfortunatly
<Drup> dmbaturin: there is a big difference with ATS: it was never intended to be used
<Hannibal_Smith> dmbaturin, ATS seems more difficult to use than Rust, and with not so clear syntaxt
<ggole> t@ype
<ousado> hehe
<dmbaturin> Good point. Tools turning into something very different (for better or worse) when community starts using and improving them are a usual thing though.
<ousado> ATS2 seems on a good way, though
<ousado> but it's nothing for quickly writing down anything
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<ousado> woops
<ousado> ATS compiles to JS now O_O
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<Drup> everything compiles to js these days
<Drup> the question is "how terrible is the mapping from the usual semantic to the javascript semantic"
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<ousado> for (former) one-man shows like ATS I wouldn't have expected this
<Drup> Idris compiles to javascript too :p
<ousado> is Idris a one-man show?
<Drup> it was at the beginning, certainly
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<companion_cube> hmmm
<companion_cube> I don't think it can be adapted for Ocaml
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<Drup> I don't either
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<pippijn> Drup: what's strange is that the example at the end is suddenly lowercase strings, when the entire article was about positive numbers
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<pippijn> templatehaskell. hm
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<Algebr> I'm having difficulty querying a specific node in an xml document using xmlm. I have the Xmlm.input that came via string.
<nojb> and ?
<Algebr> Was just wondering if anyone that was familiar with the library could suggest how to do it
<nojb> you might want to check out https://github.com/avsm/ezxmlm ...
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<Algebr> yes, looks nicer. thank you
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<Algebr> Xmlm is difficult for me to understand, it is one of the fancier libraries?
<Algebr> is it*
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<n3ss3s> Ugh, what in the world does >>= do? (Googling operators can be tricky)
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<TheLemonMan> n3ss3s, lift the lhs, feed it into the rhs and re-box the result
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<Denommus> n3ss3s: it's like a flatMap
<smondet> n3ss3s: usually `>>=` does the same things as the `bind` function in the same module
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<smondet> (like Lwt.bind, Result.bind, Option.bind, etc.)
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<n3ss3s> Gah, what would my pattern match look like for matching "(Response.t * Body.t) IO.t" (the result of a Cohttp_async.Client.get)
<n3ss3s> I tried (r: Response.t, b: Body.t) -> ... but it says ) expected after ctyp in patt
<smondet> n3ss3s: the precedence of `:` versus `,` is biting you, if you want the type annotation you need to ((id : type), (id2 : type2))
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<tonyg> What do people use for fast sets of strings? Just Set.Make(String), or is there something else out there faster/better?
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<Drup> Set.Make is fine for immutable sets
<Drup> for mutable sets, Hashtbl is usually the way
<tonyg> Drup: thanks. So there's nothing special-cased for strings that you know of for better performance than Set.Make(String)?
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<n3ss3s> sorry about the dc
<Drup> tonyg: no, and I don't see what special casing for string could bring to the table, performance wise
<tonyg> Drup: Thanks. Yeah, I'm thinking PATRICIA trees etc.
<n3ss3s> smondet: Ah, I see. What is the significance of the IO.t (or any type in this format where there's a space between types) here?
<Drup> tonyg: ah yes, you are right
<Drup> pretty sure there is prefix tree implementation in opam
<tonyg> Drup: yeah i see https://opam.ocaml.org/packages/ocaml-radixtree/ocaml-radixtree.0.0.1/ but unclear how widely-used it is
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<Drup> does it matter if it's widely used ?
<tonyg> not as such, just a very rough proxy gauge for maturity/correctness etc.
<Drup> Not everybody need a high performance stringmap, most of the time, you don't really care, Set.Make is enough :)
<tonyg> Drup: totally, I agree.
<tonyg> My interest is in high-speed messaging middleware. I'm thinking about routing data structures.
<Drup> ahah, funny you said that
<tonyg> oh?
<Drup> I started working on that last week
<Drup> I was more concentrated on expressiveness and type safety
<Drup> so the routing part is ... let's say ad-hoc.
<tonyg> ha, nice
<tonyg> right. My particular interest is in AMQP-like (STOMP-like) pub/sub routing
<Drup> (I encode everything in Re and let it optimize the regexp to death)
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<Drup> but it would be better with some custom made decision tree
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<smondet> n3ss3s: You mean like `unit IO.t` ? it's like `string List.t` or `int array` https://realworldocaml.org/v1/en/html/a-guided-tour.html#tuples-lists-options-and-pattern-matching
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<n3ss3s> oh, I see, the unfamiliar type just threw me off
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<Denommus> is there a company-mode backend for merlin?
<Denommus> sorry, there's an answer for that already
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<Drup> yes there is one
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<Denommus> Drup: is there a library that provides default implementations for the arrow functions provided a module with the minimal functions needed?
<Drup> functions for what ?
<Drup> oh, Arrows
<Drup> Not as far as I know
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<Denommus> Drup: so
<Denommus> Drup: I just understood the reason for Netwire using an implicit either
<Denommus> Drup: ArrowZero and ArrowPlus
<Denommus> Drup: it needs a away to represent the concept of an empty Arrow, and in Netwire that would be WConst (Left mempty)
<Drup> ok
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<Denommus`> damn
<Denommus`> I just understood why Netwire uses an implicit Monoid e => Either e b instead of just using b
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<Denommus`> ArrowZero
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<Denommus> Drup: any ideas on an alternative way to represent an ArrowZero?
<Drup> is it important to be able to represent it in the context of OCaml ?
<Drup> I mean .. we don't really care, we don't have a generic arrow library
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<Denommus> Drup: I don't know, I guess you're right
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<apache2> why do I need a .cmi file to compile a .ml when a .mli exists, but not without?
<apache2> and, related, how do I compile a .cmi file?
<apache2> google says .cmi is a compiled interface file
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<Drup> you get a .cmi by compiling a .mli
<Drup> which pretty much answer the other question
<apache2> oh, perfect. that worked. thanks a lot!
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