lapinou changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.01.0 announce at http://bit.ly/1851A3R | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<Drup> sure
<Drup> and regenerate the build system after
<tobiasBora_> I just need -build, or -configure too ?
<tobiasBora_> (Lwt is really a great library, I never tried to see exactly what it does but Wooa...)
<Drup> you need "oasis setup" again
<Drup> after that, it should roll on its own
<tobiasBora_> Ok, I think that I have enough annoyed you today (and yesterday :-°) thank you soo much for your help, I learnt lot's of things !
<Drup> no problem
<Drup> the whole build issue in ocaml is not really a solved problem anyway
<tobiasBora_> It is quite complicated for beginner indeed...
<tobiasBora_> And I'm sorry, still a question : in the doc I can see "CompiledObject: Define the compilation type of the section: byte, native or best". Best mean that there is a faster mode than native compilation ???
<Drup> no, best will choose the best available between byte and native
<Drup> native is not always available
<tobiasBora_> Oh ok thank you
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<zzing> I am attempting to install opam (1.1.1) on macos mavericks with the newest clang (released earlier in the week), I am getting an error from ocamlc, "clang: error: unknown argument: '-fno-defer-pop'". I am not sure how clang is called to change options or fix it. Full output: https://gist.github.com/iaefai/7e325acfc3909eb35dc1 I noticed a mention a few days ago in the logs, but no mention if there is a fix.
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<wwilly> bonjour
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<elfring> I am looking for a variant of the data structure "Map" which supports in-place modification.
<elfring> But I do not want to use the module "Hashtbl" for my task because I won't need data processing for a hash function here.
<adrien> there's pretty much no point in making a "Map" if it's not for persistance
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<adrien> hash table is going to be faster
<adrien> also, you should learn how inexpensive short lived allocations are in ocaml
<adrien> they're really only a pointer bump
<adrien> btw, mutation has a cost in ocaml (write barrier)
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<elfring> The speed of "Hashtbl" does not matter for the task I'm "playing around" with at the moment.
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<elfring> A hash function should not be applied for my use case.
<adrien> you're going to mutate keys?
<elfring> The keys should correspond to text lengths in a stable way.
<adrien> then there is no issue in hashing them
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<gasche> elfring: feel free to implement mutable balanced binary trees yourself
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<gasche> you still haven't been able to make *anyone* understand why it is so important for your use-case to have neither spine copying (Map) or hashing (Hashtbl) going on
<gasche> (for Hashing I think I see an answer: this will be an attacker-facing algorithm and you want to avoid any risk of deny-of-service attack by key collisions)
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<adrien> gasche: with a text length as keys?
<adrien> map would perform the same
<adrien> and I doubt this is PHP
<adrien> (which used to use a function name's length as key :) )
<nicoo> adrien: Yes. And the runtime used not to handle length collision in function names well, hence their ugly stdlib :>
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<elfring> I have developed small source code examples for my use case. I could publish the current version. Would you like to compare the analysis results from the use of modules with different technical properties for a better common understanding?
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<gasche> elfring: sure
<gasche> if it involves Coccinelle, all the better, it's a really interesting project
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<elfring> I hope also that improvements for Coccinelle tools will have a growing impact on other software.
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<gasche> elfring: I think you suffer from a grave case of premature optimization
<gasche> I see no reason why an in-place update would be sensibly better for your application than just using Map or Hashtbl as is
<gasche> it's about constant-factor optimizations, and it's useless to work on optimizations before you have a working prototype and are able to demonstrate that this particular point indeed is a bottleneck
<gasche> I don't know what programming experience you have; maybe you've used C for too long and are obsessed with useless details
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<elfring> You can look at my little software development contributions on some internet places. Now I am "playing around" with efficient data processing for text lengths (in OCaml technology).
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<elfring> OCaml provides also interfaces for specific data structures which are used with in-place modification. This is an interesting technical property.
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<elfring> But a hash table comes with its key functionality which is not suitable for some application contexts. Association tables would be better for the efficient mapping of keys and values in my use case, wouldn't it?
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<elfring> It seems to be a software development challenge here to fiddle with in-place modification of maps. Further ideas ...?
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<gasche> elfring: my idea would be to first demonstrate that persistent maps are not suitable for your workflow
<nicoo> elfring: It's not really challenging: one can re-implement Map with mutable associated values (or use a Map of references, for what its worth). But saying “immutable data-structures are unsuitable for efficient data processing” is untrue; is it the case in your situation?
<gasche> (same for Hashtable)
<nicoo> gasche: You are too fast :o
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<elfring> I do not want to say that “immutable data-structures are unsuitable for efficient data processing” (in general). I can also work with the current module "Map".
<elfring> I guess that further software tests will show that an in-place modifiable implementation will provide appealing run time characteristics.
<elfring> I try to mix relevant data structures for my use case. Different expectations for software efficiency can be clarified, can't they?
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<elfring> Have you got experiences with the evolving tool "OCaml Package Manager"?
<Drup> yes, it's nice.
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<elfring> I installed the package "batteries". I am not so used to a fine-tuning for a corresponding configuration.
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<Drup> fine-tuning ?
<elfring> Which files should I adjust so that the expression "open Batteries;;" will work in a command line interface?
<mrvn> #require "batteries";;
<mrvn> if you have findlib installed
<Drup> (you should work on the clarity of your statements)
<Drup> You can add #require "batteries" ;; on the top of your file
<Drup> (don't remove "open Batteries"
<Drup> also, note that stuff starting by a # are ocaml repl pragma, they are not accepted by the compiler.
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<elfring> I get the message "Unknown directive `require'." from OCaml 4.00.1" while the command line interface "utop 1.11" accepts it eventually.
<elfring> Are there any chances to avoid the message "Error: Unbound module Batteries" with both tools for the open expression here?
<Drup> yes
<Drup> did you do "opam init" ?
<adrien> #require needs #use "topfind";; first
<adrien> opam makes it so that it is done automatically
<elfring> Yes, of course.
<mrvn> debian too
<Drup> elfring: do you have something in your ~/.ocamlinit ?
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<elfring> My file "~/.ocamlinit" contains a call for the function "Topdirs.dir_directory" which was added by OPAM.
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<Drup> it will make ocaml repl use topfind by default
<Drup> (utop does that by itself)
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<elfring> Thanks for your configuration suggestion. - Should I read a bit more about such details in any documentation?
<Drup> I don't think you need anything else than this
<Drup> but honestly, I don't really use the repl for anything else that very quick piece of code.
<elfring> I hope that I can become a bit more constructive here if I will load my OCaml batteries ...
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<ddosia> hey guys, I am still struggling to force merlin to understand Core.Std :( anyone want to help me? :)
<def-lkb> yes
<def-lkb> what's going on?
<ddosia> def-lkb: hi there!
<ddosia> so, I have .merlin file with all neccessary info
<ddosia> i.e. "PKG core" there
<ddosia> and when I am trying to do <leader>-t on certain expression (String.concat) all I see is "string -> string list -> string"
<def-lkb> if you export MERLIN_LOG=some_file.log
<def-lkb> merlin will generate a log of all commands. If you could share the file that will probably help :)
<ddosia> wait a second
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<ddosia> I am going through real world ocaml btw
<def-lkb> It seems you didn't put "open Core.Std"
<ddosia> it is in my ~/.ocamlinit
<def-lkb> This is not the right way to do.
<def-lkb> ocamlinit is only used by the toplevel
<def-lkb> Your file won't work with the compiler, and therefore won't work with merlin
<ddosia> I see, now it works
<ddosia> def-lkb: but then why I need PKG instructions inside .merlin file?
<def-lkb> PKG setup the build path
<def-lkb> (If you did C programming before, this is similar to passing -I to the compiler)
<Drup> (or ocaml programming without ocamlfind :p)
<ddosia> def-lkb: no I didn't
<ddosia> I am total newby in ocaml
<def-lkb> Ok.
<ddosia> so, after I "open Core.Std" and add "PKG core" everything seems fine
<def-lkb> 1. PKG setup the build path, you can run : ocamlfind query core
<ddosia> but I still dont get it, why merlin cant understend this without .merlin file
<def-lkb> this will return the path where to search for core files
<def-lkb> merlin does the same. Then open Core.Std adjust the local scope
<Drup> ddosia: there was a similar discussion yesterday night about this
<Drup> the mapping Module name <-> package names is not one to one
<Drup> so you can't discover the package name just by the module names
<ddosia> Drup: Maybe I start that discussion, but I was unable to see answers (lost internet connection)
<Drup> you can look up the public logs
<def-lkb> By default, none of the libraries installed are visible to ocaml.
<ddosia> Core.Std: "Core" is a package and Std is a module?
<Drup> no
<Drup> both are modules
<Drup> that's the point.
<ddosia> module inside of the module. and we have to go deeper :)
<Drup> "core" is the name of the package, but it could be anything, and there is no correlation between module names and package names
<Drup> hence, you have to precise which package you are talking about.
<Drup> specify*
<ddosia> ok
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<beginner> is it possible to extend an existing record type with an additional field, to create a new type?
<Drup> no
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<adrien> aaaaaaaaaaa
<adrien> gasche: ='(
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<adrien> gasche: Alain Frisch is mean too!
<adrien> gasche: I believe List.sort_uniq and Set.of_list need a @since in the documentation
<adrien> one more function I tried to use and which doesn't actually exist in most versions
<Drup> adrien : you remind me people who try to make their website compatible with IE 6
<Drup> they are a bit sad to watch
<rks`_> :D
<rks`_> <3
<adrien> Drup: you shouldn't laugh: I believe List.sort_uniq (the function I was using) isn't in 4.01
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<adrien> thing is, on this laptop I run a dev version from a few months ago
<adrien> and I don't think compat with 3.12 is too much
<adrien> 3.11, I've dropped
<adrien> 3.12, it's not more work than 4.00
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<mrvn> adrien: GADTs are nice though
<adrien> my main issue with GADTs isn't the time it takes to upgrade the software though
<adrien> it's the time it takes to upgrade me
<adrien> and I still haven't had time to do anything with GADTs
<adrien> ='(
<adrien> (well, win-builds/yypkg stuff should leave me with much more time very soon and then I have the cross-compilation patches and then \o/ )
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