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<
companion_cube >
o/
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<
companion_cube >
nikki93: please stop this
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<
ggole >
M-x count-matches nikki93 -> 375 occurrences :/
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<
pippijn >
is there a way to do the same trick ocaml does when allocating many objects, but from C?
12:49
<
pippijn >
I am going to allocate a known number of objects with a known size
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<
pippijn >
a large number, too
12:50
<
pippijn >
about 100K objects
12:50
<
companion_cube >
I guess there is a C primitive to allocate on the ocaml side, if that's what you want
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<
companion_cube >
if you want to do this in raw C, just malloc() what you need?
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<
pippijn >
companion_cube: can I allocate a big piece of memory and put all my objects in there?
12:51
<
companion_cube >
pippijn: to be used by ocaml, or C ?
12:51
<
companion_cube >
(or both)
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<
ggole >
OCaml will fold the allocations of a small number of small things
12:51
<
ggole >
But that's all hidden away.
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<
pippijn >
yeah, I saw that
12:51
<
ggole >
You could do it in C, maybe
12:52
<
pippijn >
but only for small numbers?
12:52
<
companion_cube >
"allocating blocks"
12:52
<
ggole >
Well, I don't think it will do it for allocations in a loop or anything like that
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<
companion_cube >
if it's a large number of values, maybe it should go into the major heap?
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<
pippijn >
just curious
12:54
<
pippijn >
not really necessary
12:54
<
pippijn >
I just thought, because I know exactly how many and how large the objects I will allocate
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<
ggole >
Shame that OCaml doesn't have compact arrays, but there it is.
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<
ggole >
(Natively, that is: I understand there are some libraries along those lines.)
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<
pippijn >
actually the thing I would like to avoid is adding 100K roots
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<
pippijn >
I don't know how to do that
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<
pippijn >
I don't need to do that, but I have quite a bit of sharing in the data structure that I want to exploit
13:04
<
pippijn >
so then I need a cache
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<
pippijn >
maybe I can get away with having a single root that is an ocaml array with my cached values in it
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<
pippijn >
is an array of tag 0?
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<
companion_cube >
there is a C function to build an array, isn't there?
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<
Drup >
no, but there is an external
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<
Drup >
oh yeah, that's a C function, right :p
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13:59
* pippijn
ignores nikki93
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<
companion_cube >
same
14:00
<
pippijn >
but that function needs a C array to map into an ocaml array
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14:01
<
pippijn >
is there one to create an ocaml array with N nulls in it?
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<
companion_cube >
I don't know
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<
kerneis >
every time I wonder "does this (functional) data structure exist?", Filliâtre has already implemented it
14:05
<
Drup >
pippijn: about the whole "allocate a big array and stuff", afaik that's what bigaray is for.
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14:05
<
kerneis >
I love the man
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<
pippijn >
Drup: should I just use a C array and register all elements as generational global root?
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<
Drup >
before wandering into C territory, try to use the Bigarray library.
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<
Drup >
kerneis: oh, it's Mister Ocamlgraph, yeah <3
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<
kerneis >
well, he also happens to have a fast implementation of functional arrays
14:07
<
kerneis >
(and Patricia trees, and hash consing, and…)
14:07
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14:07
<
pippijn >
Drup: I am in C
14:08
<
pippijn >
I am totally in C
14:08
<
kerneis >
now if the LRI could fix their SSL certificate, that would make wget happier
14:08
<
Drup >
then I can't do anything for you, I don't know a thing about C
14:08
<
kerneis >
pippijn dives into C :-)
14:08
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14:08
<
pippijn >
C++ actually, but yeah
14:08
<
Drup >
then pippijn drown into C
14:08
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14:09
<
Drup >
rip pippijn :(
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<
companion_cube >
Drup: also a contributor to why3
14:17
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<
kerneis >
I think he even qualifies as the main author of why3
14:19
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14:20
<
companion_cube >
it's a team work :)
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14:24
<
kerneis >
oh, I stand corrected: he's only the third contributor in number of commits
14:24
<
companion_cube >
is Andrei the first?
14:26
<
kerneis >
yes, followed by Claude
14:26
<
companion_cube >
ok
14:27
<
kerneis >
hmm, no, Claude comes first (but commits using several names ;-)
14:27
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14:27
<
kerneis >
anyway, all of them produced roughly the same number of commits
14:27
<
companion_cube >
kerneis: are you using why3, btw ?
14:28
<
kerneis >
we're talking about 20% of difference
14:28
<
kerneis >
never used it
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<
orbitz >
is some sort of PREFIX variable the suggested way to handle make install inside opam/
15:01
<
smondet >
orbitz: yes either through a ./configure step, or make install PREFIX=%{prefix}%
15:01
<
smondet >
(or using a .install file → opam-only)
15:02
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15:02
<
smondet >
(or if it is only a library, ocamlfind does everything fine)
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<
orbitz >
smondet: do you know how to use these local opam repos thing?
15:07
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15:08
<
smondet >
you mean a local repository?
15:08
<
smondet >
opam remote add name /path/to/repo
15:09
<
orbitz >
smondet: where you have the repo inside your code
15:09
<
companion_cube >
you mean a subdir that contains the description of the opam package?
15:09
<
orbitz >
i'm trying that in another repo and it doesn't like me
15:11
<
orbitz >
does it work only in the latest version?
15:11
<
companion_cube >
I have no idea, really
15:11
<
smondet >
in the PR ashish puts the repos in etc/opam/
15:11
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15:11
<
orbitz >
yes, and i've done that locally, and used his command, no dice
15:11
<
smondet >
so it is for opam remote add protobufrepo /path/to/etc/opam
15:11
<
orbitz >
i did the commadn he says in the comment
15:13
<
orbitz >
he add succeeds
15:13
<
orbitz >
but ti doesn't fidn anything
15:13
<
smondet >
i think in his command etc/opam/ is missing
15:14
<
smondet >
opam will look for a directory "packages/"
15:14
<
smondet >
the "repo add" is kind of lazy
15:14
<
orbitz >
how does it know where to actually do the 'make' though
15:14
<
orbitz >
lazy ashish
15:14
<
orbitz >
what is the correct way?
15:15
<
companion_cube >
I think it's actually simpler to have a distinct opam repository
15:15
<
smondet >
opam remote add protobufdev path/to/your/ocaml-protobuf/etc/opam/
15:15
<
smondet >
opam update
15:15
<
smondet >
opam (re)install protobuf
15:15
<
companion_cube >
the problem is that it won't work for a remote git repo, will it?
15:15
<
companion_cube >
because you'd need to tell opam to look at a subdirectory
15:16
<
smondet >
yes but that one is just for developpers
15:16
<
orbitz >
hrm, do i have to pin it too
15:17
<
smondet >
he did not put any url, so yes you need to `opam pin ...`
15:17
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<
orbitz >
super hacky, i think a tool should probably be made to do this magic for you on the fly if this is a popular dev style
15:19
<
smondet >
the ecosystem is too young for a particular hack to be "popular" :)
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<
companion_cube >
smondet: then it's as simple to keep a local opam repo
15:26
<
companion_cube >
where you manage your own packages
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15:27
<
smondet >
companion_cube: yes that's what i do :)
15:27
<
smondet >
but Ashish's etc/opam has its value also, espcially when the team grows
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<
companion_cube >
smondet: for a team, what's wrong with using a shared git repository for opam?
15:40
<
smondet >
nothing, I do that also :)
15:41
<
smondet >
I think we are all experimenting stuff, aren't we?
15:43
<
smondet >
as hacks go, I've also tried to develop two libraries in the same time without touching opam, just with OCAMLFIND_DESTDIR, and OCAMLPATH, to avoid recompilations
15:43
<
smondet >
it's pretty usefull
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<
orbitz >
so far I've found my own local opam repo to be a good solution, then I already have the PR for opam-repository ready to roll
17:27
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<
orbitz >
Is ocaml any closer to a de factor standard build system?
17:52
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18:08
<
bernardofpc >
Camlp4: Uncaught exception: DynLoader.Error ("/usr/lib64/ocaml/lwt/lwt-syntax-options.cma", "interface mismatch on Camlp4_import") -> any hints ?
18:09
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18:10
<
bitbckt >
orbitz: I imagine JS expect jenga to become that, but a more direct answer is, "no."
18:10
<
smondet >
bernardofpc: you can check that the whole tool chain comes from the same compiler
18:10
<
smondet >
bernardofpc: maybe you have ocamlc/opt in some opam switch and camlp4 somewhere else, etc.
18:11
<
companion_cube >
orbitz: I don't think so
18:13
<
bernardofpc >
smondet: I rebuilt camlp5, it worked
18:13
<
bernardofpc >
(and also recompiled every stuff, even ZArith, in the process)
18:13
<
bernardofpc >
so I'm not 100% sure what worked, but it did
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18:29
<
orbitz >
so far I haven't foudn anything better than my ghetto makefile. Which is probably just because I wrote it.
18:29
* companion_cube
just uses oasis now
18:31
<
orbitz >
not sure, so far it sound slike he's been building a product with it
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18:32
<
companion_cube >
yes, but he still can open source parts of it
18:32
<
companion_cube >
:)
18:33
<
Drup >
the soft is opensource, afaik
18:33
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18:33
<
Drup >
at least the python code was
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18:35
<
bitbckt >
as is all of the ocaml code - he links to it right at the top.
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18:36
<
companion_cube >
so, it's just a matter of packaging ^^
18:36
<
companion_cube >
I mean, looks like he has a nice internal module for argument parsing
18:37
<
companion_cube >
unrelated: I
*love* private aliases
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18:39
<
companion_cube >
I have the feeling he re-wrote everything though
18:39
<
companion_cube >
full nih ^^
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19:11
<
orbitz >
nih is totally fun when learning a new language
19:13
<
companion_cube >
sure ^^
19:13
<
companion_cube >
even later ^^
19:14
<
Drup >
we should rename nih "companion_cubisme"
19:14
<
pippijn >
companion_cube/pippijn-ism?
19:16
<
Drup >
I think that's still low on the ccubisme scale x)
19:17
<
companion_cube >
oh come on
19:17
<
companion_cube >
it's very widespread in the ocaml community
19:17
<
companion_cube >
and people like Jean-Christophe are worse than me :p
19:17
<
Drup >
well, that's true :D
19:18
<
pyon-ionated >
I am trying to understand OCaml's object system (I already understand the rest of the language just fine). Please correct me if I am wrong: 1. Classes are somewhat like constructors in other OO languages, in that they "set up" an object, but they are not types themselves, right? 2. Objects are basically structurally typed records of methods with open recursion, right?
19:18
<
Kakadu >
classes can be types
19:18
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19:19
<
Drup >
pyon-ionated: true and true
19:19
<
Drup >
not exactly true for the first one
19:19
<
pyon-ionated >
Kakadu: Drup: When and how is a class a type?
19:19
<
Drup >
classes have a type, which is the same as an object
19:20
<
Drup >
so an object always have a type, like an object
19:20
<
Drup >
..a classe always...
19:20
<
pyon-ionated >
A class always...?
19:21
<
Drup >
so a classe always have a type, like an object*
19:21
<
Drup >
you can declare a type for classes and objects specifically with "type class ..."
19:22
<
companion_cube >
class type*
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19:22
<
Drup >
which prove that I don't use the object system that much :D
19:22
<
companion_cube >
scoop
19:23
<
pyon-ionated >
Let me see. :-)
19:26
<
pyon-ionated >
Oh, so there is a distinction between open and closed object types. I will have to look more into that. :-)
19:29
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<
bernardofpc >
if I create type door = Locked | Open, then let f = function Close -> 1 | Open -> 2 I do get a function from lock -> int
20:26
<
bernardofpc >
and "f Open" does work
20:28
<
bernardofpc >
(of course, Open in the wild is typed as a "door")
20:30
<
bernardofpc >
is this correct ? intended ?
20:31
<
nlucaroni >
that's an error in the tutorial.
20:31
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20:31
<
bernardofpc >
well, the tutorial uses the same variants both for door and lock
20:31
<
nlucaroni >
wait, hold on...
20:31
<
bernardofpc >
it's my fooling around the idea to make them distinguisable
20:32
<
bernardofpc >
(more precisely, to make the older one sufficiently distinguishable if the ocmpiler is "greedy" in determining the type)
20:32
<
smondet >
bernardofpc: ocaml 4.01 ?
20:32
<
bernardofpc >
let me post it
20:33
<
bernardofpc >
OCaml version 4.01.0
20:34
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20:34
<
smondet >
yes 4.01 is more clever
20:34
<
smondet >
see the 'Close' it guesses that the `Open` is the one hidden
20:34
<
smondet >
s/see/seeing/
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20:36
<
companion_cube >
is there a way to define new variables in oasis?
20:37
<
Drup >
you mean flag ?
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20:39
<
companion_cube >
no, I mean proper variables :(
20:39
<
companion_cube >
something that will be put in the configure file
20:40
<
Drup >
what do you want to use those ?
20:40
<
pippijn >
companion_cube: use obuild ;)
20:40
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20:40
<
pippijn >
(my nih build system)
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20:43
<
pippijn >
(which doesn't suffer from separation of knowledge and the consequent redundancy of it)
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20:47
<
Drup >
companion_cube: are you trying to integrate a preprocessor with oasis ?
20:47
<
Drup >
pippijn: trick question : do you have a documentation ? :3
20:47
<
pippijn >
Drup: nope
20:47
<
pippijn >
almost zero
20:47
<
pippijn >
there are quite a lot of examples, though
20:47
<
companion_cube >
I'm trying to split a big libraries into pieces using oasis
20:48
<
companion_cube >
and some files are preprocessed
20:48
<
companion_cube >
so I need to preprocess them :/
20:48
<
Drup >
companion_cube: so yeah, I told you already, I tried that without success :/
20:49
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20:50
<
companion_cube >
on which library?
20:50
<
companion_cube >
ah
20:51
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20:51
<
companion_cube >
well, there's FilesAB
20:51
<
companion_cube >
but it doesn't do everything
20:51
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20:51
<
Drup >
I wanted to direct the preprocessing using oasis flags
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20:55
<
companion_cube >
ah
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21:41
<
bernardofpc >
I read that "Each variant consumes precious tag space. Since type tags are stored in a byte, and in particular a byte with the lower two bits zeroed, there are only about 59 such tags left"
21:41
<
bernardofpc >
(on a blog)
21:42
<
bernardofpc >
I thougth there were 2^59 tags possible, but maybe I don't understand the lowlevel representation of Caml values
21:44
<
bernardofpc >
hum, myabe in fact that's NOT about OCaml in fact... just a related language ?
21:45
<
bernardofpc >
yes, sorry for the noise :/
21:47
<
companion_cube >
I'm not sure you have 2^59 possible tags
21:47
<
companion_cube >
but a few hundreds should be plentiful
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<
bernardofpc >
well, you can certainly abuse their number in `Foo | `Bar | ... things piling module over module
21:59
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bernardofpc >
oh RWO has a chapter on Memory Representation of Values ;-))
22:01
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pyon-ionated >
companion_cube: Do people really write code with hundreds of tags? :-O
22:01
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pyon-ionated >
I mean, hundreds of tags in the same sum type.
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smondet >
pyon-ionated: I remember an auto-generated opengl binding was hitting the maximum
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companion_cube >
pyon-ionated: I don't think so
22:05
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bernardofpc >
(Obj.magic `A : int) ;; -> so simple :D
22:05
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companion_cube >
awwwww
22:06
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companion_cube >
here comes the C programmer :p
22:06
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bernardofpc >
well, I'm learning the internal representation
22:06
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bernardofpc >
blame chapter 20 of RWO that has such things in it :D:D
22:07
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bernardofpc >
I still have to figure out why AA = 14560
22:07
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companion_cube >
learn it, but don't use it badly
22:07
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companion_cube >
:p
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bernardofpc >
223 * 65 + 65 = 14560
22:09
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bernardofpc >
strange number 223
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