lapinou changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.01.0 announce at http://bit.ly/1851A3R | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<companion_cube> o/
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<companion_cube> nikki93: please stop this
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<ggole> M-x count-matches nikki93 -> 375 occurrences :/
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<pippijn> is there a way to do the same trick ocaml does when allocating many objects, but from C?
<pippijn> I am going to allocate a known number of objects with a known size
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<pippijn> a large number, too
<pippijn> about 100K objects
<companion_cube> I guess there is a C primitive to allocate on the ocaml side, if that's what you want
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<companion_cube> if you want to do this in raw C, just malloc() what you need?
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<pippijn> companion_cube: can I allocate a big piece of memory and put all my objects in there?
<companion_cube> pippijn: to be used by ocaml, or C ?
<companion_cube> (or both)
<pippijn> ocaml
<ggole> Not really
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<ggole> OCaml will fold the allocations of a small number of small things
<ggole> But that's all hidden away.
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<pippijn> okay
<pippijn> yeah, I saw that
<ggole> You could do it in C, maybe
<pippijn> but only for small numbers?
<companion_cube> "allocating blocks"
<ggole> Well, I don't think it will do it for allocations in a loop or anything like that
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<companion_cube> if it's a large number of values, maybe it should go into the major heap?
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<pippijn> ok
<pippijn> just curious
<pippijn> not really necessary
<pippijn> I just thought, because I know exactly how many and how large the objects I will allocate
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<ggole> Shame that OCaml doesn't have compact arrays, but there it is.
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<ggole> (Natively, that is: I understand there are some libraries along those lines.)
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<pippijn> actually the thing I would like to avoid is adding 100K roots
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<pippijn> I don't know how to do that
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<pippijn> I don't need to do that, but I have quite a bit of sharing in the data structure that I want to exploit
<pippijn> so then I need a cache
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<pippijn> maybe I can get away with having a single root that is an ocaml array with my cached values in it
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<pippijn> is an array of tag 0?
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<companion_cube> there is a C function to build an array, isn't there?
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<Drup> no, but there is an external
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<Drup> oh yeah, that's a C function, right :p
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<pippijn> oh
* pippijn ignores nikki93
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<companion_cube> same
<pippijn> ok, so
<pippijn> array
<pippijn> but that function needs a C array to map into an ocaml array
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<pippijn> is there one to create an ocaml array with N nulls in it?
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<companion_cube> I don't know
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<Drup> hum
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<kerneis> every time I wonder "does this (functional) data structure exist?", Filliâtre has already implemented it
<Drup> pippijn: about the whole "allocate a big array and stuff", afaik that's what bigaray is for.
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<kerneis> I love the man
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<pippijn> Drup: should I just use a C array and register all elements as generational global root?
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<Drup> before wandering into C territory, try to use the Bigarray library.
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<Drup> kerneis: oh, it's Mister Ocamlgraph, yeah <3
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<kerneis> well, he also happens to have a fast implementation of functional arrays
<kerneis> (and Patricia trees, and hash consing, and…)
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<pippijn> Drup: I am in C
<pippijn> I am totally in C
<kerneis> now if the LRI could fix their SSL certificate, that would make wget happier
<Drup> then I can't do anything for you, I don't know a thing about C
<pippijn> ok
<pippijn> :)
<kerneis> pippijn dives into C :-)
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<kerneis> totally
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<pippijn> C++ actually, but yeah
<Drup> then pippijn drown into C
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<Drup> rip pippijn :(
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<pippijn> x_x
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<companion_cube> Drup: also a contributor to why3
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<kerneis> I think he even qualifies as the main author of why3
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<companion_cube> it's a team work :)
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<kerneis> oh, I stand corrected: he's only the third contributor in number of commits
<companion_cube> is Andrei the first?
<kerneis> yes, followed by Claude
<companion_cube> ok
<kerneis> hmm, no, Claude comes first (but commits using several names ;-)
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<kerneis> anyway, all of them produced roughly the same number of commits
<companion_cube> kerneis: are you using why3, btw ?
<kerneis> we're talking about 20% of difference
<kerneis> never used it
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<orbitz> is some sort of PREFIX variable the suggested way to handle make install inside opam/
<smondet> orbitz: yes either through a ./configure step, or make install PREFIX=%{prefix}%
<smondet> (or using a .install file → opam-only)
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<smondet> (or if it is only a library, ocamlfind does everything fine)
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<orbitz> smondet: do you know how to use these local opam repos thing?
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<smondet> you mean a local repository?
<smondet> opam remote add name /path/to/repo
<orbitz> smondet: where you have the repo inside your code
<companion_cube> you mean a subdir that contains the description of the opam package?
<orbitz> i'm trying that in another repo and it doesn't like me
<orbitz> yes
<orbitz> does it work only in the latest version?
<companion_cube> I have no idea, really
<smondet> in the PR ashish puts the repos in etc/opam/
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<orbitz> yes, and i've done that locally, and used his command, no dice
<smondet> so it is for opam remote add protobufrepo /path/to/etc/opam
<orbitz> i did the commadn he says in the comment
<smondet> and?
<orbitz> no workie
<orbitz> he add succeeds
<orbitz> but ti doesn't fidn anything
<smondet> i think in his command etc/opam/ is missing
<smondet> opam will look for a directory "packages/"
<smondet> the "repo add" is kind of lazy
<orbitz> how does it know where to actually do the 'make' though
<orbitz> ha
<orbitz> lazy ashish
<orbitz> what is the correct way?
<companion_cube> I think it's actually simpler to have a distinct opam repository
<smondet> opam remote add protobufdev path/to/your/ocaml-protobuf/etc/opam/
<smondet> opam update
<smondet> opam (re)install protobuf
<companion_cube> the problem is that it won't work for a remote git repo, will it?
<companion_cube> because you'd need to tell opam to look at a subdirectory
<smondet> yes but that one is just for developpers
<orbitz> hrm, do i have to pin it too
<smondet> ah right
<smondet> he did not put any url, so yes you need to `opam pin ...`
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<orbitz> yeah
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<orbitz> super hacky, i think a tool should probably be made to do this magic for you on the fly if this is a popular dev style
<smondet> the ecosystem is too young for a particular hack to be "popular" :)
<orbitz> true
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<companion_cube> smondet: then it's as simple to keep a local opam repo
<companion_cube> where you manage your own packages
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<smondet> companion_cube: yes that's what i do :)
<smondet> but Ashish's etc/opam has its value also, espcially when the team grows
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<companion_cube> smondet: for a team, what's wrong with using a shared git repository for opam?
<smondet> nothing, I do that also :)
<smondet> I think we are all experimenting stuff, aren't we?
<smondet> as hacks go, I've also tried to develop two libraries in the same time without touching opam, just with OCAMLFIND_DESTDIR, and OCAMLPATH, to avoid recompilations
<smondet> it's pretty usefull
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<orbitz> so far I've found my own local opam repo to be a good solution, then I already have the PR for opam-repository ready to roll
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<orbitz> Is ocaml any closer to a de factor standard build system?
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<bernardofpc> Camlp4: Uncaught exception: DynLoader.Error ("/usr/lib64/ocaml/lwt/lwt-syntax-options.cma", "interface mismatch on Camlp4_import") -> any hints ?
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<bitbckt> orbitz: I imagine JS expect jenga to become that, but a more direct answer is, "no."
<smondet> bernardofpc: you can check that the whole tool chain comes from the same compiler
<smondet> bernardofpc: maybe you have ocamlc/opt in some opam switch and camlp4 somewhere else, etc.
<companion_cube> orbitz: I don't think so
<bernardofpc> smondet: I rebuilt camlp5, it worked
<bernardofpc> (and also recompiled every stuff, even ZArith, in the process)
<bernardofpc> so I'm not 100% sure what worked, but it did
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<orbitz> Dang
<orbitz> so far I haven't foudn anything better than my ghetto makefile. Which is probably just because I wrote it.
* companion_cube just uses oasis now
<companion_cube> I wonder whether the http://roscidus.com/blog/blog/2014/02/13/ocaml-what-you-gain/ guy publishes libraries on opam?
<orbitz> not sure, so far it sound slike he's been building a product with it
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<companion_cube> yes, but he still can open source parts of it
<companion_cube> :)
<Drup> the soft is opensource, afaik
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<Drup> at least the python code was
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<bitbckt> as is all of the ocaml code - he links to it right at the top.
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<companion_cube> so, it's just a matter of packaging ^^
<bitbckt> buh dum.
<companion_cube> I mean, looks like he has a nice internal module for argument parsing
<companion_cube> unrelated: I *love* private aliases
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<companion_cube> I have the feeling he re-wrote everything though
<companion_cube> full nih ^^
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<orbitz> nih is totally fun when learning a new language
<companion_cube> sure ^^
<companion_cube> even later ^^
<Drup> we should rename nih "companion_cubisme"
<Drup> :D
* pippijn reminds Drup of https://github.com/pippijn/cparser
<pippijn> companion_cube/pippijn-ism?
<Drup> I think that's still low on the ccubisme scale x)
<companion_cube> oh come on
<companion_cube> it's very widespread in the ocaml community
<companion_cube> and people like Jean-Christophe are worse than me :p
<Drup> well, that's true :D
<pyon-ionated> I am trying to understand OCaml's object system (I already understand the rest of the language just fine). Please correct me if I am wrong: 1. Classes are somewhat like constructors in other OO languages, in that they "set up" an object, but they are not types themselves, right? 2. Objects are basically structurally typed records of methods with open recursion, right?
<Kakadu> classes can be types
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<Kakadu> 2. yep
<Drup> pyon-ionated: true and true
<Drup> well
<Drup> not exactly true for the first one
<pyon-ionated> Kakadu: Drup: When and how is a class a type?
<Drup> classes have a type, which is the same as an object
<Drup> so an object always have a type, like an object
<Drup> ..a classe always...
<pyon-ionated> A class always...?
<Drup> so a classe always have a type, like an object*
<Drup> grmbl
<Drup> :D
<pyon-ionated> Ah!
<Drup> you can declare a type for classes and objects specifically with "type class ..."
<companion_cube> class type*
<pyon-ionated> :-O
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<Drup> which prove that I don't use the object system that much :D
<companion_cube> scoop
<pyon-ionated> Let me see. :-)
<pyon-ionated> Oh, so there is a distinction between open and closed object types. I will have to look more into that. :-)
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<bernardofpc> http://ocaml.org/learn/tutorials/labels.html -> type lock / door example
<bernardofpc> if I create type door = Locked | Open, then let f = function Close -> 1 | Open -> 2 I do get a function from lock -> int
<bernardofpc> and "f Open" does work
<bernardofpc> (of course, Open in the wild is typed as a "door")
<bernardofpc> is this correct ? intended ?
<nlucaroni> that's an error in the tutorial.
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<bernardofpc> well, the tutorial uses the same variants both for door and lock
<nlucaroni> wait, hold on...
<bernardofpc> it's my fooling around the idea to make them distinguisable
<bernardofpc> (more precisely, to make the older one sufficiently distinguishable if the ocmpiler is "greedy" in determining the type)
<smondet> bernardofpc: ocaml 4.01 ?
<bernardofpc> let me post it
<bernardofpc> OCaml version 4.01.0
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<smondet> yes 4.01 is more clever
<smondet> see the 'Close' it guesses that the `Open` is the one hidden
<smondet> s/see/seeing/
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<companion_cube> is there a way to define new variables in oasis?
<Drup> variables ?
<Drup> you mean flag ?
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<companion_cube> no, I mean proper variables :(
<companion_cube> something that will be put in the configure file
<Drup> what do you want to use those ?
<pippijn> companion_cube: use obuild ;)
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<pippijn> (my nih build system)
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<pippijn> (which doesn't suffer from separation of knowledge and the consequent redundancy of it)
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<Drup> companion_cube: are you trying to integrate a preprocessor with oasis ?
<Drup> pippijn: trick question : do you have a documentation ? :3
<pippijn> Drup: nope
<pippijn> almost zero
<pippijn> there are quite a lot of examples, though
<companion_cube> I'm trying to split a big libraries into pieces using oasis
<companion_cube> and some files are preprocessed
<companion_cube> so I need to preprocess them :/
<Drup> companion_cube: so yeah, I told you already, I tried that without success :/
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<companion_cube> on which library?
<Drup> lilis
<companion_cube> ah
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<companion_cube> well, there's FilesAB
<companion_cube> but it doesn't do everything
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<Drup> I wanted to direct the preprocessing using oasis flags
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<companion_cube> ah
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<bernardofpc> I read that "Each variant consumes precious tag space. Since type tags are stored in a byte, and in particular a byte with the lower two bits zeroed, there are only about 59 such tags left"
<bernardofpc> (on a blog)
<bernardofpc> I thougth there were 2^59 tags possible, but maybe I don't understand the lowlevel representation of Caml values
<bernardofpc> hum, myabe in fact that's NOT about OCaml in fact... just a related language ?
<bernardofpc> yes, sorry for the noise :/
<companion_cube> I'm not sure you have 2^59 possible tags
<companion_cube> but a few hundreds should be plentiful
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<bernardofpc> well, you can certainly abuse their number in `Foo | `Bar | ... things piling module over module
<bernardofpc> oh RWO has a chapter on Memory Representation of Values ;-))
<pyon-ionated> companion_cube: Do people really write code with hundreds of tags? :-O
<pyon-ionated> I mean, hundreds of tags in the same sum type.
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<smondet> pyon-ionated: I remember an auto-generated opengl binding was hitting the maximum
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<companion_cube> pyon-ionated: I don't think so
<bernardofpc> (Obj.magic `A : int) ;; -> so simple :D
<companion_cube> awwwww
<companion_cube> here comes the C programmer :p
<bernardofpc> well, I'm learning the internal representation
<bernardofpc> blame chapter 20 of RWO that has such things in it :D:D
<bernardofpc> I still have to figure out why AA = 14560
<companion_cube> learn it, but don't use it badly
<companion_cube> :p
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<bernardofpc> 223 * 65 + 65 = 14560
<bernardofpc> strange number 223
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