kaustuv changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | 3.11.1 out now! Get yours from http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/release.html
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<Camarade_Tux> kaustuv: btw, you said you didn't catch the gobject-introspection hype and I told you I didn't either
<Camarade_Tux> one of the worst thing is probably functions changing their parameters (where parameters will hold the results), it's impossible to bind properly automatically
<Camarade_Tux> (same goes for arrays of elements, you don't know if the elements won't be changed)
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<Camarade_Tux> bah, I don't like writing comments :)
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<Hydrant> is this the best hangout for functional programming speak ?
<bluestorm> this is an IRC channel about the OCaml language
<kaustuv> Hydrant: there's #proglangdesign and some other channels that talk about fp in general
<bluestorm> ooh, didn't know about this one
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<bluestorm> is it interesting kaustuv ?
<bluestorm> (I wouldn't mind idling on something a bit more interactive than LtU)
<kaustuv> I think it's mostly dead, unfortunately
<kaustuv> I think idling on all of #haskell, #scala, #ocaml, and possibly others might be the best idea
<Hydrant> how much of a cost is really incurred by making things immutable in functional languages?
<bluestorm> depends on what your constraint are
<bluestorm> +s
<bluestorm> Hydrant: In a multi-threaded settings it is not a cost but a net benefit : you get lock-free data structures !
<Hydrant> lock-free doesn't always mean fast
<bluestorm> also when you need persistence you'll want immutable things anyway
<bluestorm> so it all depends on what your needs are
<bluestorm> Hydrant: "a cost" doesn't mean an execution time cost
<bluestorm> (doesn't always)
<kaustuv> mutation in a GC'd language is generally more expensive than allocation
<Hydrant> I'm looking at Ct, and NESL... in particular data parallel programming techniques in C++
<Hydrant> Ct advocates one of its greatest strengths is the immutable data model it borrowed from FP
<kaustuv> NESL is great, but if you understand Guy Blelloch's parallel quicksort implementation you're a cleverer man than I
<Hydrant> I've been reading a lot of his papers lately
<Hydrant> he keeps coming up :-)
<kaustuv> mutation is not all that bad, I think, if you keep it confined to ONE process
<Hydrant> in my experience garbage collection kills parallel performance
<kaustuv> what really kills parallel performance is Amdahl's law
<Hydrant> indeed
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<rbancroft> how is mutation more expensive than allocation? you mean within a transaction of some kind?
<bluestorm> rbancroft: with a GC and a write barrier
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<rbancroft> bluestorm: hmm, I see. that still seems surprising to me
<rbancroft> don't allocations also suffer from the similar problems? concurrent access to a heap
<rbancroft> bluestorm: thanks, reading
<rbancroft> thank you bluestorm. so if you are using boxed values, that does make sense
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<Anarchos> boxed means that you add the bit indicated if it is a value or a primitive int ?
<bluestorm> Anarchos: i'd say it means it's allocated on the heap and you only have a pointer to the real value
<Anarchos> bluestorm you write more precisely what i had in mind :) midnight here, time to sleep ;)
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<Camarade_Tux> hmmm, http://www.pyside.org/ , python bindings for qt
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