mbishop changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | Grab Ocaml 3.10.0 from http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/release.html (featuring new camlp4 and more!)
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<flux> hmh.. the map/set from ocaml-reins doesn't appear to support the split-operation of Set
<flux> it's already annoying that Map doesn't support split, I need to use both Set and Map to have a Map with that feature
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<svenl> anyone knows how the termios setting of a Unix terminal file descriptor interact with the Stream standard library.
<svenl> i need to set Unix.c_vmin and Unix.c_vtime, in order to be able to react if i don't get a char after a given time, when a read would return 0 read chars.
<svenl> it would block and return 0 read chars that is.
<svenl> I am unsure how the Stream library behaves with regard to blocking or non blocking reads.
<svenl> since it does a string_unsafe_get, which is mapped to some bytecode/asmcode generation, and i lost the trace in the code there.
<pango> using timeouts will make terminal reading non deterministic, so tackling a Stream on top of that looks like a bad idea
<svenl> pango: non-deterministic ?
<svenl> pango: i am actually writting a program which monitors a serial input, and should raise a warning if no input is comming.
<pango> I'd go for select()
<svenl> pango: past experience with select over sockets proven not so nice.
<svenl> pango: i was going to set vtime to some timeout, and do a recusrive read.
<svenl> if there is no input in a given time, as set in vtime, i know something is wrong, and raise the warning.
<pango> no experience with termios
<svenl> pango: why you said it would be non-deterministic ?
<pango> maybe it's not the best term... but it will stop behaving as a ideal stream, returning the same results in the same order
<svenl> pango: i still don't understand. If there are characters to be read inside the timeouts, they will be read.
<svenl> pango: if they are not,
<svenl> pango: if they are none such characters to be read, it will block during vtime*0.1 s, and then return empty, or whatever.
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<svenl> if characters arrive later on, they will be read in a subsequent read.
<pango> so you'll have a problem encoding that in the middle of a stream, not to mention further characters will be translated by an arbitrary number of place
<pango> it seems to be just as bad as using buffered sockets with select(), same kind of error
<svenl> pango: are you speaking about the slow streams, or something else ?
<pango> about Stream.t
<svenl> ok.
<svenl> Stream.t uses string_unsafe_get to do the actual hcaracter reading.
<svenl> but i was unable to map this to something which actually reads the file descriptor.
<svenl> so i don't know how it reacts with regard to blocking/nonblocking mode.
<svenl> I guess the best solution is just to use Unix.read, and put this in a buffer of my chosing.
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<pango> yes, because you were trying to mix fire and ice
<svenl> and then hand-process this buffer, without resorting to the stream thingy.
<svenl> pango: well, not trying, but wondering if i could.
<svenl> pango: thanks for the help.
<pango> even not knowing the implementation details, it looked like a weird idea
<svenl> ok.
<pango> streams are lazy datastructures, so the exact time the underlying values are evaluated shouldn't matter
<pango> even if the order of evaluation should be known, it doesn't feel like the right place to put timing-dependant tests
<svenl> indeed.
<svenl> its a neat interface for parsing though.
<pango> lazy datastructures can have many uses, too bad ocaml standard lib doesn't even have a lazy list (Streams are good, but destructive...)
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> there is a FStream lib in camlp4
<pango> old or new camlp4? :)
<pango> in old one, I had the feeling that functional streams were deprecated
<bluestorm_> hm
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<flux> I don't think it even really worked
<flux> would be fun to have, though
<bluestorm_> i can't find it
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<bluestorm_> they may have been removed, as you say
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<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> i don't know why aren't the developpers considering extension of the standard lib
<pango> they don't want to have to maintain a large library, I'd guess
<bluestorm_> are pure-ocaml library that much work ?
<pango> maybe more than what they want to spend on it
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<bluestorm_> as an example, we could add a little "Option" module wich some convenience functions
<bluestorm_> they are canonical
<pango> at one time, my guess was that they wanted more functions to be left as exercices for students ;)
<bluestorm_> i do not see how you could "maintain" them
<bluestorm_> (the ('a -> 'b) -> 'a option -> 'b option and ('a -> 'b option) -> 'a option -> 'b option for example, how could you have to change them later ?)
<pango> for those, an argument I've seen in mailing lists (maybe not official source, however) is, "you can easily define them yourself". Which is probably the worse reason ever given
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<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> i end up having a little "Prelude" module in my OCaml projects
<pango> like most ;)
<tsuyoshi> so why not write a module with that stuff.. and submit it to extlib
<pango> because as long as it's not "official", you can't assume it will be available... and use your own Prelude module instead
<pango> the whole extlib suffers from this problem
<pango> that's specially true because extlib extensively uses runtime implementation-dependant features (Obj.magic ?), so many people will avoid it, unless it's officially supported
<tsuyoshi> well, I am not going to just stick to the standard library.. there's hardly anything in it
<bluestorm_> i haven't used the extlib yet
<bluestorm_> difficult not to think "i don't really need that much" "i can code it myself, it's really simple"
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<pango> bluestorm_: that plagues many projects. Related problem is project embedding all the libraries they use, because there's no official automatic library installation mecanism (godi looks interesting, but it's not officially endorsed, is it?)
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> i currently use godi
<bluestorm_> and have seen no problem with it
<bluestorm_> the 3.09 -> 3.10 transition is far more problematic
<bluestorm_> i'm not sure "official endorsment" is something important for a package manager
<pango> I'm sure of it
<pango> That's 50% of Perl success
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