<ayrnieu>
Nutssh - though I generally hear this advisement in the context of general betterness and suitability, rather than efficiency.
<Smerdyakov>
Riastradh, you're right, I don't know any better. However, I am one of the most efficient developers on the planet, so I'm comfortable in not taking your word that I would benefit greatly from Smalltalk or whatever. :)
<Riastradh>
Smerdyakov, and if you take my word, then you clearly concede that OCaml's object system sucks.
<ayrnieu>
Smerdy - when did he say that you'd experience great benefits with Smalltalk or whatever?
<Smerdyakov>
ayrnieu, he is implying it.
<Nutssh>
:hmms: OO is probably a closer match in semantics, but using accessors for everything is also sucky. There's also code dupllication of Functor(Foo) Functor(Bar) ...
<Riastradh>
Smerdyakov, although I haven't mentioned Smalltalk once in this conversation.
<Smerdyakov>
ayrnieu, he directly questioned my ability to evaluate whether or not I'd benefit from using an OO system that he likes.
<ayrnieu>
Riastradh - eh, just a moment ago you tried to pull Smerdy away from his implicit relation of his (unqualified) arguments to himself. Now you try to do the same thing.
<ayrnieu>
Smerdy - I don't know about 'he likes', but he did seem to discover your ignorance of many OO systems.
<Smerdyakov>
ayrnieu, how is that relevant to the current point in the conversation?
<ayrnieu>
Smerdy - and it makes sense for him to seek out such points of your knowledge, in the context of your unqualified assertions on the 'niceness' of O'Caml's object system.
<Smerdyakov>
It does what I want it to do. I won't agree that there is something wrong with declaring it to be excellent without knowing about alternatives.
<ayrnieu>
Smerdy - you say "O'Caml has a nice object system" and then you say something that qualifies this assertion to your own tastes, but you seem adverse to just making qualified assertions in the first place.
<Smerdyakov>
They can be excellent, too, or excellenter!
<Nutssh>
Why not just leave it as ocaml's object system has a few problems. On the other hand, its better than no object system at all.
<ayrnieu>
Smerdy - this doesn't have anything to do with degree. It has to do with Riastradh's apparent desire to force you to qualify your assertions.
<Smerdyakov>
ayrnieu, my own tastes? It's more like my own capabilities.
<ayrnieu>
Smerdy - "O'Caml's OO works for me" versus "O'Caml's OO is nice"
<Nutssh>
Objective performance question: Would the object system be bad at reading a field element in a tight inner loop?
<ayrnieu>
or "I like O'Caml's OO" or "I have experienced no fault with O'Caml's object system"
<Smerdyakov>
OK. In the future, I will use such terminology to placate you. :D
<Smerdyakov>
Nutssh, benchmark it yourself!
<ayrnieu>
Smerdy - and all of these statements have questions of your knowledge of alternative object systems as a sensible response -- if you knew great deal about the object systems that Riastradh had in mind, he'd find such assertions more interesting =)
<Smerdyakov>
He should find statements about my overall rate of quality software production interesting, independent of knowledge of other methods.
<ayrnieu>
"Yes, I've dealt extensively with Smalltalk and CLOS and such, but I haven't missed any of their features when dealing with O'Caml."
<ayrnieu>
Smerdy - sure, and maybe he does now that he understands that you meant to talk about that =)
* Maddas
coughs
<ayrnieu>
Yes, I suppose that many have chosen to ignore us rather than enjoy the happy conclusion.
<Maddas>
me?
<Maddas>
I just spent the last minutes reading up on what I missed
<ayrnieu>
No, I didn't mean to point a finger at you.
<Maddas>
I saw it exactly.
<Nutssh>
Smerdyakov: I guess I have to. Just rereading the manual and you have to almost be a type theorist to understand anything past section 3.10.
<Riastradh>
Smerdyakov, how do you like to get a taste of your own pedanticism thrown back at you?
<Smerdyakov>
Nutssh, it doesn't take much to become a type theorist. :D
<Smerdyakov>
Riastradh, I'm fine with it. :)
<ayrnieu>
Riastradh - Smerdy has already mocked me as pedantic, but thanks.
<Maddas>
ayrnieu: You use proper punctuation and capitalization in IRC! You are so pedantic.
<Smerdyakov>
ayrnieu, and don't forget milking the cows.
<ayrnieu>
Maddas - well, I find it easier to use such in IRC than when jotting down hurried notes to myself or emitting oral communication.
<Nutssh>
I know, I am already there. :) But is the ocaml OO type system worth the time to understand?
<Riastradh>
Smerdyakov, wouldn't it have just been so much nicer if you hadn't been such a bloody pedant and the conversation could have assumed an ordinary conversational structure about the OCaml object system?
<ayrnieu>
eh, you don't really 'emit' communication. Participating in.
<Smerdyakov>
Riastradh, or maybe you could just settle down, fella. :D
<Maddas>
ayrnieu: Don't even bother to justify, I'm just trying to be funny (and failing at that, it seems :)).
<ayrnieu>
Riastradh - er, by my understanding the conversation went sour because of his failure to follow certain kinds of pedanticism.
<Smerdyakov>
Nutssh, it's not complicated....
<ayrnieu>
Riastradh - at least with that as one factor.
<Riastradh>
Smerdyakov, maybe _YOU_ could settle your bloody pedanticism for a while.
<ayrnieu>
Maddas - no, I gathered that you meant that humorously.
<ayrnieu>
Maddas - Smerdy has also mocked me for my apparent failure to notice humor.
<Smerdyakov>
Riastradh, the sun is out. The bugs are shining. Smile. :)
<Nutssh>
Sure, the simple stuff no, but explicitly type variables, recursive object types and type coercions does get a bit over the top. :)
<Maddas>
ayrnieu: you are too pedantic to laugh abo... oh, he already did, never mind then :)
<Maddas>
Smerdyakov: what kind of bugs shine?
<Smerdyakov>
Maddas, the most obvious example is lightning bugs.
* ayrnieu
doesn't often have opportunities outside of IRC to utilize E-Prime and such.
<Maddas>
Hm, ok.
<Smerdyakov>
I hear you don't have such creatures in Europe.
<ayrnieu>
Maddas - in the 13th century (bah, I've forgotten the dynasty) the Chinese collected 'lighting bugs' in great numbers to use as a light source.
<Maddas>
Smerdyakov: The fact that I don't know them doesn't mean much more than that I don't have such creatures in my room.
<Maddas>
in fact, I sometimes even wonder what kind of things are walking around in my room.
<Maddas>
ayrnieu: heh.
<ayrnieu>
Maddas - so all those cartoons and such wherein you see lightning-bug lamps? Yeah, the Chinese have gone there, done that =)
<Maddas>
ayrnieu: That would only confirm my completely irrational but so far very correct assumption that Chinese are very strange. :)
<Maddas>
hm, that didn't make much sense. I'll just go to sleep, good night.
<ayrnieu>
g'night.
<Nutssh>
Thanks for the discussion.
<Maddas>
ayrnieu: the fact that I've seen you use '=)' pleases me :)
<Maddas>
Nutssh: ..that wasn't me :)
<Nutssh>
Ok. Looking at the docs some more, it looks like object fields are inaccessible outside the object?
<Riastradh>
Nutssh, yes.
<Nutssh>
And accessible in inherited objects because inheritence is a syntatic property, so an inherited object isn't seeing the same field, but another field in another completely seperate type.
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<Nutssh>
Hi.
<Kinners>
hello Nutssh
<Nutssh>
What brings you on?
<Kinners>
I like ocaml?
<Nutssh>
Heh. Ditto.
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<ott>
re all
<Swynn_hm_afk>
hi ott
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<thornber>
what's the function composition operator in ocaml ?
<mattam>
it's not defined by default
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<mattam>
you can use 'let ($) f g = function x -> f (g x)' and other infix operators though
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<thornber>
great, thanks
<thornber>
is (.) a valid infix operator ?
<mattam>
not sure, it probably conflicts with array access
<thornber>
y, doesn't work here
<thornber>
<.> does though :)
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<Nutssh>
Heyla.
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* Smerdyakov
recognizes the name "Shrdlu." :)
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<Nutssh>
I see he is in houston too.
<Nutssh>
Or rather, he/she/they/it is in houston
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<Maddas>
Nutssh: is/are :(
<Maddas>
err, :)
<Nutssh>
:(
<Nutssh>
s/:(/:)/
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<stepcut>
anyone know of a easy way to syntax highlight ocaml code in latex?
<mimosa>
the tuareg-mode
<mimosa>
ooops I read emacs sorry
<stepcut>
:)
<stepcut>
I thought ocamldoc might, but it seems to only colorize html
<mattam>
no easy way, you've got to use lgrind or listing or ...
<mattam>
and even then you won't have colors iirc
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<stepcut>
well, I don't want colors, just bold and italics
<mattam>
lgrind is relatively easy to use
<stepcut>
its even debianized
<mattam>
woa, you lucky man
<mattam>
:p
<stepcut>
thanks, that seemed to do the trick
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<stepcut>
this is weird. If you do: 'ocamlfind ocamlmktop -verbose -package "pcre" -linkpkg -o pcre' using ocamlfind 0.9, then everything works, but if I do the same thing using 1.0.2, then the top level can't find the pcre package
<stepcut>
but if I try it with "unix" instead of "pcre", it works with either version of ocamlfind
<stepcut>
I wonder if ocamlfind is broken
<stepcut>
or if pcre and friends are broken
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